BA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 718 posts, RR: 0 Posted (12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4812 times:
Is anything new ever going to happen here as they seem to have just been a limbo bound vegetable for a few years now bar a couple of failed routes (AMS, IAD). They also seem to be constantly changing direction to the point that they have now gone full circle (back to the original three class config)
Will anything ever develop here other than double daily EWR-ORY-EWR? Bearing in mind that they have recently sold F-GPEJ and F-GPEK is rumoured to be also going I don't hold out much hope for expansion. Does ORY work well loads wide etc?
cipango From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2009, 285 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4796 times:
Im not sure about loads, but going by the many many failures of all premium airlines, such as Maxjet and Silverjet, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't around this time next year.
cloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 668 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4627 times:
I didn't know they were even still around.
I still don't understand how an airline can expect to survive by serving only one city/pair. Unless they were to establish some kind of well advertised codeshare with a domestic airline, I just don't see how they would ever get enough traffic.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
LHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1368 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4602 times:
Quoting cloudboy (Reply 3): I didn't know they were even still around.
I still don't understand how an airline can expect to survive by serving only one city/pair. Unless they were to establish some kind of well advertised codeshare with a domestic airline, I just don't see how they would ever get enough traffic.
Well what is their FF relationship to BA exactly? I can't recall if they are being run as an entirely separate entity, but if there were some tie-in to BA's FF program, I could see that being jusitification.
LHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 740 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (12 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4244 times:
I don't see it having much of a future.
Since it launched, IAG now has the joint-venture with American and considerable scope for growth at LHR due to the purchase of bmi. IAG now has bigger fish to fry.
BA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 718 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3550 times:
Apparently F-GPEK is going too leaving just the two much older ex-L'avion planes which seem to be loathed by the customers. I would have got rid of these two and kept the original RR powered machines.
I read that they changed from having an entirely separate management from mainline to now being majority BA mainline ran. BA wanted the three class system which they originally employed reinstated. The biz bed or biz seat concept to me was always strange.
One major thing I read about then is the lack of uniform product and that the service seems to differ greatly if you are being served by L'avion crew over the original BA trained OpenSkies staff.
aamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1040 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (12 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2526 times:
Quoting BA174 (Reply 9): Apparently F-GPEK is going too leaving just the two much older ex-L'avion planes which seem to be loathed by the customers. I would have got rid of these two and kept the original RR powered machines.
Obviously there was more value in the ex-BA machines than the L'avion aircraft. Also, aren't the L'avion aircraft leased, whereas the BA machines were owned after their transfer from BA? Getting rid of the L'avion aircraft would result in lease termination costs and so on... but there was the potential to earn a few quid flogging the PEJ/K.
sq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1583 posts, RR: 21 Reply 12, posted (12 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2133 times:
Quoting BA174 (Reply 9): One major thing I read about then is the lack of uniform product and that the service seems to differ greatly if you are being served by L'avion crew over the original BA trained OpenSkies staff.
I'm assuming the BA trained crew have a better reputation than the L'avion crew? Either way, why the discrepancy in service? Where the two crew groups jointly trained when L'avion was absorbed into Open Skies?
LHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1368 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (12 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2102 times:
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 5):
EC participates in BA's Executive Club, but not in OW. Although, EC members can earn miles and Tier points towards OW status on OpenSkies flights.
Thanks for the clarification!
Quoting shilenb (Reply 10): AA and EC have a codeshare agreement which adds to IAG's transatlantic venture
See that's what I would think makes them reasonably viable - even if they aren't OW members, the codeshare and earning reciprocity makes them a potentially valuable contribution to transatlantic routes.
ba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8263 posts, RR: 56 Reply 14, posted (12 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2082 times:
Quoting aamd11 (Reply 11): Obviously there was more value in the ex-BA machines than the L'avion aircraft. Also, aren't the L'avion aircraft leased, whereas the BA machines were owned after their transfer from BA? Getting rid of the L'avion aircraft would result in lease termination costs and so on... but there was the potential to earn a few quid flogging the PEJ/K.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6620 posts, RR: 17 Reply 15, posted (12 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1966 times:
Quoting shilenb (Reply 10): AA and EC have a codeshare agreement which adds to IAG's transatlantic venture
BA7002 EWR-ORY is, as van example, also AA7824 and IB7962.
The oneworld on-line timetable lists routings such as EWR-ORY-MAD (IB7964/IB3405) but there is a 4 hour 45 min layover at ORY with an elapsed journey time of over 14 hrs. Travelling MAD-ORY-EWR the layover is actual quite good if perhaps a little long at 2 hrs 35 mins. The elapsed journey time for the two flights, IB3436 and IB7963, is 13 hrs 15 mins compared to a quickest listed journey of 11 hrs 25 mins routing MAD-LHR-EWR with a 1 hr 15 min connection at T5.
Quoting aamd11 (Reply 11): Obviously there was more value in the ex-BA machines than the L'avion aircraft.
The ex-BA birds were owned by BA. The ex-Avion birds are leased from AWAS. So F-GPEJ yielded some sale money for BA while disposing of G-HAVI or 'VN would probably have required an early lease termination payment by OpenSkies.
BA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 718 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (12 months 22 hours ago) and read 1735 times:
Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 12): Quoting BA174 (Reply 9):
One major thing I read about then is the lack of uniform product and that the service seems to differ greatly if you are being served by L'avion crew over the original BA trained OpenSkies staff.
I'm assuming the BA trained crew have a better reputation than the L'avion crew? Either way, why the discrepancy in service? Where the two crew groups jointly trained when L'avion was absorbed into Open Skies?
Sounds pretty inconsistent to me. I notice they never seen to include the L'avion biz seat in the publications.
I believe the OpenSkies base is EWR and the L'avion crew are ORY. Apparently the two sides don't get on well either, apparently the story goes the French union tried to have the at the time non-unionised original NYC base closed when the buyout first happened but now EWR is the bigger base.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5159 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 880 times:
Actually if they can find a way to tie it into their LCY-JFK service (similar product etc) it might just have a chance as the LCY-JFK service has a loyal following and some of those same folks might use it.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
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