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OpenSkies Future?  
User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 762 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5099 times:

Is anything new ever going to happen here as they seem to have just been a limbo bound vegetable for a few years now bar a couple of failed routes (AMS, IAD). They also seem to be constantly changing direction to the point that they have now gone full circle (back to the original three class config)

Will anything ever develop here other than double daily EWR-ORY-EWR? Bearing in mind that they have recently sold F-GPEJ and F-GPEK is rumoured to be also going I don't hold out much hope for expansion. Does ORY work well loads wide etc?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinecipango From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5083 times:

Im not sure about loads, but going by the many many failures of all premium airlines, such as Maxjet and Silverjet, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't around this time next year.

Just my two cents.


User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4988 times:

Well it was rumoured to be closing down last year but instead the new economy class was announced.

User currently offlinecloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 841 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4914 times:

I didn't know they were even still around.

I still don't understand how an airline can expect to survive by serving only one city/pair. Unless they were to establish some kind of well advertised codeshare with a domestic airline, I just don't see how they would ever get enough traffic.



"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1608 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4889 times:

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 3):
I didn't know they were even still around.

I still don't understand how an airline can expect to survive by serving only one city/pair. Unless they were to establish some kind of well advertised codeshare with a domestic airline, I just don't see how they would ever get enough traffic.

Well what is their FF relationship to BA exactly? I can't recall if they are being run as an entirely separate entity, but if there were some tie-in to BA's FF program, I could see that being jusitification.


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4691 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 4):
Well what is their FF relationship to BA exactly?

EC participates in BA's Executive Club, but not in OW. Although, EC members can earn miles and Tier points towards OW status on OpenSkies flights.

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 4):
I can't recall if they are being run as an entirely separate entity,

EC is a subsidiary of BA.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4531 times:

I don't see it having much of a future.

Since it launched, IAG now has the joint-venture with American and considerable scope for growth at LHR due to the purchase of bmi. IAG now has bigger fish to fry.


User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4520 times:

I'd say it will eventually be shut down or sold.

User currently offlineGCPET From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4338 times:

Is F-GPEK definitely sold? I swear it's only GPEJ?

GCPET



If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3837 times:

Apparently F-GPEK is going too leaving just the two much older ex-L'avion planes which seem to be loathed by the customers. I would have got rid of these two and kept the original RR powered machines.


I read that they changed from having an entirely separate management from mainline to now being majority BA mainline ran. BA wanted the three class system which they originally employed reinstated. The biz bed or biz seat concept to me was always strange.

One major thing I read about then is the lack of uniform product and that the service seems to differ greatly if you are being served by L'avion crew over the original BA trained OpenSkies staff.


User currently offlineshilenb From UK - England, joined Oct 2012, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

AA and EC have a codeshare agreement which adds to IAG's transatlantic venture

User currently offlineaamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1061 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2813 times:

Quoting BA174 (Reply 9):
Apparently F-GPEK is going too leaving just the two much older ex-L'avion planes which seem to be loathed by the customers. I would have got rid of these two and kept the original RR powered machines.

Obviously there was more value in the ex-BA machines than the L'avion aircraft. Also, aren't the L'avion aircraft leased, whereas the BA machines were owned after their transfer from BA? Getting rid of the L'avion aircraft would result in lease termination costs and so on... but there was the potential to earn a few quid flogging the PEJ/K.


User currently offlinesq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 2420 times:

Quoting BA174 (Reply 9):
One major thing I read about then is the lack of uniform product and that the service seems to differ greatly if you are being served by L'avion crew over the original BA trained OpenSkies staff.

I'm assuming the BA trained crew have a better reputation than the L'avion crew? Either way, why the discrepancy in service? Where the two crew groups jointly trained when L'avion was absorbed into Open Skies?



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1608 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2389 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 5):

EC participates in BA's Executive Club, but not in OW. Although, EC members can earn miles and Tier points towards OW status on OpenSkies flights.

Thanks for the clarification!

Quoting shilenb (Reply 10):
AA and EC have a codeshare agreement which adds to IAG's transatlantic venture

See that's what I would think makes them reasonably viable - even if they aren't OW members, the codeshare and earning reciprocity makes them a potentially valuable contribution to transatlantic routes.


User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8564 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2369 times:
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Quoting aamd11 (Reply 11):
Obviously there was more value in the ex-BA machines than the L'avion aircraft. Also, aren't the L'avion aircraft leased, whereas the BA machines were owned after their transfer from BA? Getting rid of the L'avion aircraft would result in lease termination costs and so on... but there was the potential to earn a few quid flogging the PEJ/K.

- This is correct.



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User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7644 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

Quoting shilenb (Reply 10):
AA and EC have a codeshare agreement which adds to IAG's transatlantic venture

BA7002 EWR-ORY is, as van example, also AA7824 and IB7962.

The oneworld on-line timetable lists routings such as EWR-ORY-MAD (IB7964/IB3405) but there is a 4 hour 45 min layover at ORY with an elapsed journey time of over 14 hrs. Travelling MAD-ORY-EWR the layover is actual quite good if perhaps a little long at 2 hrs 35 mins. The elapsed journey time for the two flights, IB3436 and IB7963, is 13 hrs 15 mins compared to a quickest listed journey of 11 hrs 25 mins routing MAD-LHR-EWR with a 1 hr 15 min connection at T5.

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 11):
Obviously there was more value in the ex-BA machines than the L'avion aircraft.

The ex-BA birds were owned by BA. The ex-Avion birds are leased from AWAS. So F-GPEJ yielded some sale money for BA while disposing of G-HAVI or 'VN would probably have required an early lease termination payment by OpenSkies.


User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2022 times:

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 12):
Quoting BA174 (Reply 9):
One major thing I read about then is the lack of uniform product and that the service seems to differ greatly if you are being served by L'avion crew over the original BA trained OpenSkies staff.

I'm assuming the BA trained crew have a better reputation than the L'avion crew? Either way, why the discrepancy in service? Where the two crew groups jointly trained when L'avion was absorbed into Open Skies?
The Last Boutique Airline: OpenSkies To Paris (by SR 103 Sep 12 2010 in Trip Reports)

Sounds pretty inconsistent to me. I notice they never seen to include the L'avion biz seat in the publications.

I believe the OpenSkies base is EWR and the L'avion crew are ORY. Apparently the two sides don't get on well either, apparently the story goes the French union tried to have the at the time non-unionised original NYC base closed when the buyout first happened but now EWR is the bigger base.


User currently offlinegoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1853 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1660 times:

The axing of EWR by AF has given OpenSkies some needed oxygen. But I'm not sure it will be sufficient for long term.

User currently onlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6233 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1167 times:

Actually if they can find a way to tie it into their LCY-JFK service (similar product etc) it might just have a chance as the LCY-JFK service has a loyal following and some of those same folks might use it.


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
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