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Passenger Trying To Rush Cockpit, AA320 May 25  
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7658 times:

Authorities have a passenger in custody after he tried to rush the cockpit on an American Airlines flight from Montego Bay to Miami.
Two male passengers on board Flight AA 320 restrained the man before it landed safely at Miami International Airport at 10:21 a.m. and pulled into a gate. Several law enforcement agencies responded, and Immigration and Customs Enforcement now have the man in their custody.

http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/lo...ing-to-rush-cockpit/#ixzz1vtaz2UVQ

Yet again   What do they hope to accomplish?

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5562 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7235 times:

Quoting cmf (Thread starter):
tried to rush the cockpit
Quoting cmf (Thread starter):
restrained the man before it landed

Not what happened at all.

As the plane was taxiing to the gate, a man got up and started walking (not rushing) towards the front of the airplane. After not listening to the FA when being told to stop, a couple of passengers tackled him.

Sounds more like someone who just wanted first off the plane.... but, of course, our lovely media and government want to spin it to make it sound like terrorism to keep us afraid.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinethreeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6887 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 1):
As the plane was taxiing to the gate, a man got up and started walking (not rushing) towards the front of the airplane. After not listening to the FA when being told to stop, a couple of passengers tackled him.

I witnessed a similar situation (that ended much better) on a PIT-MSP flight (9E CR9) last month as we were descending into MSP. A woman abruptly got up from her seat and walked "purposefully" towards the cockpit. The first class FA cut her off and they talked for a couple of minutes, then the woman went back to her seat.

Later, I overheard the woman telling the rest of her group that when she heard/felt the engines "slow down," she "wanted to tell the pilot." 

People do stupid things sometimes - doesn't mean they are criminals, just stupid.


User currently offlinecanadianpylon From Canada, joined May 2003, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6838 times:

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 2):
People do stupid things sometimes - doesn't mean they are criminals, just stupid.

I need a shirt with this printed on it....  



Always looking for the longest route with the most transfers.
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4116 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6838 times:

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 2):
People do stupid things sometimes - doesn't mean they are criminals, just stupid.

I could not agree with you more.   



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6599 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 1):
Not what happened at all.

Not surprised to see reality being different from what was originally reported. That said, what went through the guys head?


User currently offlineskycub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6484 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 5):
That said, what went through the guys head?

An infrequent flyer who had no ideas the ramifications of approaching the front of the aircraft while it was taxiing?

You know, we see these people every day at security... after how many years they are shocked they can't bring liquids on the aircraft.

We see inflight, passengers trying to open the cockpit door because they think it is the lavatory door.

We see, after 10 years of "No forming a line or standing at the front of the aircraft for any reason," people who still think that they are the exception to the rule.

We see after decades, people jump out of their seat on arrival and start retrieving bags from the overhead bins while the aircraft is still taxiing.

I am not saying these people are stupid. I am saying that there is still, ten years after 9/11, a large portion of the traveling public who think their actions, since they are not terrorists, are completely normal.

As I shake my head in disbelief every day at security, I remind myself: "These people don't work for an airline. These people don't go through airport security 20 times a month. These people don't realize what they are doing is going to be considered a security threat. These people don't realize that since they, themselves, know they are not terrorists that their actions are considered so by airline employees."

It's like the passenger who says: "I am just going to stand here, at the front of the aircraft, in front of the cockpit door, as my 5-year-old uses the restroom, okay?"

They just don't know.

What was this passenger thinking? They were thinking..."I don't fly all the time, we're on the ground, I don't want to wait for 20 rows of people ahead of me to deplane and I don't see why a crew member would get all up in arms just because I grabbed my carryons and headed to the front of the plane so I could avoid the rush."

Trust me, I get as infuriated as everyone else on anet when I see and deal with these people... but then I tell myself: "They DONT see themselves as terror threats and they don't see why we may.... and they are more used to the check-out line at Target or Wal-Mart than they are of being aboard a commercial aircraft."

Cut them some slack. What was he thinking? He was thinking that he doesn't think he is a terrorist, the crew members should know better, and at the local grocery store you jocky for position in the shortest line.... so let me grab my crap and try to get off here before anyone else.

People who don't fly every week, people who aren't employed by an airline, people who don't read anet and know the mindset of aviation geeks... have no idea why doing what they did was wrong. They just don't.

You tell me that your second-cousin on your grandmothers side who has saved all his life for a vacation to Jamaica and has dealt with TSA lines, airline check in, customs, etc... who thinks "I don't look like a terrorist," would not do the same thing.

What was he thinking? That nothing about his behavior was wrong and he was just trying to beat the rush to the front of the plane.

Why didn't he stop when the FAs said something? The same reason someone with 16 items doesn't stop when the cashier in the "15 items of less" line says: "Sir, you have too many items." They don't see what the big deal is and don't think the rule applies to them.

Are they right? Of course not.... but people have forgotten 9/11 and passengers today think flight attendants have less authority than the man working at a gas station store who says "No shoes, No shirt, No service!" They forgot 9/11, they don't think flight attendants have any authority, they don't realize the authority crew members have.... and that's through no fault of their own. Look at how the media portrays flight attendants.... waiters and waitresses in the sky.

If I were not a flight attendant, I don't wonder if my own family wouldn't think the same.

It's just ignorance.... and no insult intended (because I would plead ignorance to what a nuclear scientist did) of people who don't deal with our industry and environment every day.


User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6408 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 1):
Quoting cmf (Thread starter):tried to rush the cockpitQuoting cmf (Thread starter):restrained the man before it landed

Not what happened at all.


Well it is partially what happened. The plane HAD landed, so the info this happened BEFORE the flight landed is incorrect. However, it is true the passenger "rushed" the cockpit.

I am a crew member and we were given a debrief of what FACTUALLY happened. During taxi in, the passenger stood in main cabin and began speaking loudly in French. He then did in fact rush (walk fast, run, whatever) to the front of the a/c and began beating on the cockpit door screaming to be let off the plane. There was never any threat made against the flight/crew. According to witnesses, the passenger appeared to be under to influence of an unknown substance.

AA ORD


User currently offlineskycub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6378 times:

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 7):
Well it is partially what happened. The plane HAD landed, so the info this happened BEFORE the flight landed is incorrect. However, it is true the passenger "rushed" the cockpit.

I am a crew member and we were given a debrief of what FACTUALLY happened. During taxi in, the passenger stood in main cabin and began speaking loudly in French. He then did in fact rush (walk fast, run, whatever) to the front of the a/c and began beating on the cockpit door screaming to be let off the plane. There was never any threat made against the flight/crew. According to witnesses, the passenger appeared to be under to influence of an unknown substance.

AA ORD

Then, with all-due respect, before the relevations you made... I can see why this was a security issue. I do.

My previous post was based strictly on the comments:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 1):

Not what happened at all.

As the plane was taxiing to the gate, a man got up and started walking (not rushing) towards the front of the airplane. After not listening to the FA when being told to stop, a couple of passengers tackled him.

Thank you for the information on what DID happen. These are clearly conflicting reports and my previous comment was based on the earlier one.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6317 times:

Quoting skycub (Reply 6):
Cut them some slack. What was he thinking? He was thinking that he doesn't think he is a terrorist

It is about more than terrorism. It is about respect to fellow passengers. I'm perfectly happy for cutting slack for him not being a terrorist. I am not inclined to cut slack for moving around the cabin during taxing, depending on report already on the runway. I'm not ready to cut slack to people taking out bags from the bins, don't know if he did.

In the same way terrorism threat is out of control so is the slack given for what should be common sense.


User currently offlineskycub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6047 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 9):

It is about more than terrorism. It is about respect to fellow passengers.

And when Ma and Pa Kettle (and I do personally despise that term) do NOT see what they are doing as disrespect to their fellow passengers...what then?

I think it is pretty disrespectful when I am in line at the grocery store with a cart full of items and the lane next to me opens up and the person who was in line BEHIND me jumps over to the newly opened line.

I think it is pretty disrespectful when I am walking through the mall and someone is wearing a t-shirt that says: "F-CK" on it, yet no one from mall security stops them and tells them to change their attire because they may have actually purchased that very same shirt in that very same mall.

I think it is disrespectful when I hear someone at the gas station pump use the "F" word on their cell phone while they are pumping gas next to me.....

Yeah, it is totally disrespectful.... but in all of those situations.... no one is going to say something to them.

These are the exact same people who board commercial airline flights.

The same rude, obnoxious behavior that is allowed in most other places is NOT allowed onboard commercial aircraft but these people are uneducated enough to realize that! How can you blame them? Trust me... I DONT LIKE IT... but I can see how it happens.

If I am at breakfast at a local Cracker Barrel and someone doesn't like how their food is cooked.... what are the consequences of them berating the sever, storming into the kitchen and acting like an idiot and then being so upset that they cut in front of line to pay so they can get out of the restauraunt as quickly as they can?

I am not saying that behavior is polite or politically correct or the right thing to do... but it IS how people behave and there are NO consequences.... then those same people board an aircraft and think they can behave the same way.

People just don't realize that causing a confrontation with a crew member, raising their voice with a crew member, barging towards the front of the plane, ignoring social etiquette or posted rules on an airplane are COMPLETELY different than their behavior on the ground.

I am not condoning the behavior of people like that. Not at all. But I am trying to explain, as a crew member, how I see people, uneducated people who are completely ignorant of airline policy, thinking that a commercial airliner has the same behavior standards of the restaurant or retail establishments they normally frequent.

You walk into any restaurant or retail establishment and act like an idiot and you may be asked to behave or the employees may just accept the behavior.... but what are the consequences? Not much. You do it on an airliner....which many people nowadays just see as another retail establishment.....they don't realize it's not the same thing.... that the "rules" are not just there to be polite but have federal consequences if they don't obey... that the flight attendants actually have some authority.... people don't get that.

And when I have an issue on the aircraft... they won't turn off their electronics, they won't turn off their cell phones, they think they are exempt from standing at the front of the airplane to wait while their kid uses the bathroom because they would be waiting right outside if their kid was using the bathroom at a mall.... I TELL THEM EXACTLY THAT: "You may not realize it, but this is a commercial aircraft, not a retail establishment, and the rules here are a lot different."

For the most part... they just don't realize that.

When I first read the original post that this was a flight from Jamaica to Miami, I thought: "Leisure destination to Miami. This would NEVER happen on a USAirways or Delta Shuttle flight from Boston to LaGuardia. The clientele is totally different.... leisure traveler who think that an airliner is the flying equivilant of a 7-11 compared to seasoned, experienced business travelers."

Quoting cmf (Reply 9):

In the same way terrorism threat is out of control so is the slack given for what should be common sense.

And whos fault is that? In the United States, you can pretty much act or behave in any ignorant way in public establishment. Curse at the waiter/waitress, walk into a store barefoot, raise your voice at Target when you aren't happy with their return policy.... In most environments, that behavior, while looked down upon and considered devoid of all social tact... is still accepted.

I walk into my doctor's office and there is a sign that says "TURN CELL PHONES OFF," yet half the waiting room is talking on their phones. What are the consequences? Nothing.

I walk into the 7-11 that says "No shoes, no shirt, no service," but we are a mile from the lake and half the people in there are barefoot or shirtless buying beer..... no consequences.

How can you blame these people for not realizing than a commercial airliner is different? It's America... rules don't apply.... until you are suddenly on an airliner.

I am not justifying their behavior.... but how can we expect people who see air travel as something they paid for and nothing more than a flying retail establishment obey the rules when so few other places actually enforce the rules.

Trust me... as a flight attendant.... I despise the fact that US citizens feel that they are the consumer and they are paying for a product and they can treat an aircraft as their local 7-11, Target, Applebee's or Gap. I do. But that is how it is.

We have trained the traveling public in the US to think of airlines as nothing more than a retail product and airline employees as nothing more than retail employees.

A personal story.... working a flight, we hit severe turbulence. Turbulence to the level of galley supplies falling off the galley counters. Coke cans falling onto the floor and crew members unable to walk in the cabin. Some of the worst turbulence I have ever experienced.

As I struggled to get into my jumpseat, I insisted that a woman standing in the galley waiting for the lavatory return to her seat. I said: "Ma'am, you need to take a seat NOW!"

Her response: "I need to pee!" I said: "No, you need to sit down!"

When we landed, she was so irate that I demanded she take a seat for HER safety, that she spoke to a Customer Service Supervisor and told her: "That punk-ass kid who thinks he has some authority tried to tell me that I needed to sit down!"

That's the level of authority crew members have in the US.... me telling her to sit down when it was truly dangerous for anyone to be walking around made me a "punk-ass kid who thought I had authority."

In her eyes, I had no more authority than an employee at Banana Republic telling her not to throw folded shirts on the floor or a server at Friday's telling her she couldn't get the weekday lunch special on a weekend.

I am not trying to insult these people, but merely trying to say....in the US, people are simply ignorant about crew members and rules. They don't think rules apply to them and they think that crew members and announcements and rules pertaining to safety and security do not apply because they don't apply anywhere else in the US.

It is a cultural thing....and I can see why someone thought nothing of jumping up on taxi, as was originally posted, and trying to get off the plane first.

I say that because, again, the later comments about what really happened on this AA flight don't mirror the original account of events.

However, I wanted to address the comments of cmf.

[Edited 2012-05-25 21:05:18]

[Edited 2012-05-25 21:11:10]

User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 967 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5896 times:

Well If the man did not do what the witnesses said he did and the report by the media was based on what was told to them by the Law enforcement agencies that were called to the a/c, then why is the man being held until Tuesday when he can stand before a Federal Judge? Just my thought, if they did not have a good reason to keep him to see the judge, then they would look bad in front of him/her. That is one think any Prosecutor is not willing to do. So they must have a good reason to keep him IMHO.


I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlines5daw From Slovenia, joined May 2011, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5634 times:

Quoting skycub (Reply 6):
It's like the passenger who says: "I am just going to stand here, at the front of the aircraft, in front of the cockpit door, as my 5-year-old uses the restroom, okay?"

Wow, I'm a frequent flyer (in EMEA for the most part) and I've never heard of that before.

In that kind of situation, what is one supposed to do then?


User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2521 times:

Excellent post SKYCUB and spot on.

To add to your post is something else people get confused on.. Commercial air travel in the US is a privelage, not a right. Had that reminded to us today from our captain during our briefing.

AA ORD


User currently offlineskycub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2340 times:

Quoting s5daw (Reply 12):

Wow, I'm a frequent flyer (in EMEA for the most part) and I've never heard of that before.

In that kind of situation, what is one supposed to do then?

Never?? Wow. I hear it on a daily basis at work.

"I'm just going to stand here while my child uses the restroom."

To which I respond:

"I'm sorry, ma'am, that rule about standing and waiting at the front of the aircraft applies to everyone. You can't stand up here."

Which often leads to:

"I know, but he is just a little boy. He's afraid to go in there himself."

"Then have him use one of the other lavatories onboard. You can't stand here."

"But they all have a line."


User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7186 posts, RR: 86
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2243 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I'm a big supporter of the Sky Posse but I'm waiting for someone to come running down the isle that just needs to urinate and some bubba thinks he's gonna prevent the next 9/11 and take him out.

User currently offlines5daw From Slovenia, joined May 2011, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1968 times:

Quoting skycub (Reply 14):
Never?? Wow. I hear it on a daily basis at work.

I'm not sure we have this rule in Europe.

I recently flew on a dash 8, I think operated by LOT, which only has lavatories in the front. I queued in front of the door, standing right next to the cockpit. In a couple of minutes anther guy queued behind me. No action from the FA.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5562 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1586 times:

Here we go:

Quoting skycub (Reply 6):
9/11

Will never happen again, so stop using it as a all-powerful unassailable justification for going on a power trip.

Quoting skycub (Reply 10):
The same rude, obnoxious behavior that is allowed in most other places is NOT allowed onboard commercial aircraft

Why should airplanes be more special than the train?

Quoting skycub (Reply 10):
in public establishment.

You mean like an airport?

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 13):
Commercial air travel in the US is a privelage, not a right.

It most certainly is a right, and God help anyone that tries to use some "authority" to stop me from making a mutually beneficial contract decision with a business that harms no one.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently onlinekpitrrat From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1530 times:

I think what SkyCub is saying is that today people who fly today do so with no disregard for the authority which cabin crews possess. As it was eluded to before, people see the FA's as simply air waiters and waitresses. That is clearly a misconception. They must go through "x" amount of training covering a multitude of scenarios. Much of which I am guessing was not existent pre 9/11.

Oh I said it "9/11", lets be realistic here... the chance that that may happen again is not extremely high, I agree. But what we must accept is that it DID happen and now we must live with the consequences. It was not a train driven into the WTC. It was a plane. Hijacked bay individuals taking over the cockpit. So what do we do? We prohibit individuals from liotering in front of the door and restrict movement in the cabin during times when it is not necessary. Accept it. Consider the plane like a ship. The Captain is the Captain. What he/she says goes, still some people do not understand that; and that also goes for all cabin crew. When you purcahse the ticket you not only do so as a contract with the company but also with the FAA, like it or not. And last time I checked the FAA frowns upon disobeying orders from the cabin crew.


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1295 times:

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 13):
Commercial air travel in the US is a privelage, not a right. Had that reminded to us today from our captain during our briefing.

I am sorry, but this is one of the most patronizing statements that many in the US like to parrot post 9/11. How is it s privilege and not a right, if you have bought a ticket and fuilfil all the requirements for travel??? Would you go into a supermarket, buy and pay for a product, and agree if the supermarket staff told you your buying the product, freely available in the market and where you have many supermarkets to choose from, is a "privilege" and not a right?

The captain should be told off for making that announcement on-board. What happened to "we know you have a choice, and appreciate your choosing us"???

If it is a privilege for anyone, it is for the service provider (the airline, the supermarket) that you have chosen to give them your business!

Now sure, rights come with responsibilities, but that does not make it any less of a right nor does it convert the right to a privilege!


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1087 times:

Quoting skycub (Reply 6):
It's just ignorance.... and no insult intended

I think you're wrong. I think the cases of ignorance are far and few between. Most of the time it is disrespect for everyone else.

The solution isn't to make excuses for them. The solution isn't to cut some slack and let it go. There must be consequences.

In my mind a psychiatric evaluation should be the first step. If it reveals something then treat in best way possible and ban the person from flying alone until recovered. If nothing is found slap a reasonable fine. Probably something equal to a day or possibly two of the persons salary. For a second offence triple it and after a third ban from flying for a year.


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