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UA Ending Pre-board For Families With Small Kids  
User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1388 posts, RR: 9
Posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11032 times:

As a new parent (had a baby boy 3 weeks ago!), I am now sensitive to family-friendly issues, and was disheartened to hear this week that UA was dropping its pre-board announcement for families with small children.

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-05-23/t...ass-american-airlines?_s=PM:TRAVEL

I'm frustrated because I already have a UA booking for my baby's first flight; an LGA-ORD visit to the grandparents in the fall. Had I known, I would have booked DL. Traveling with babies/toddlers is hard enough as it is for parents, with a squirmy/unpredicatble child, and having to bring a stroller, a car seat, toys and/or baby formula, along with the parents' carry-ons -- and the pre-board announcement was the only small comfort one could expect.

Further, I fail to see the marketing strategy. UA angers millions of families with a rule like this, but gets nothing in return: no added revenues, no cost savings, not even time efficiencies (families still have to board the plane anyway, and it will probably take them longer if they board with the rest of coach).

Can anyone shed a little more light on this? I just don't see the point. From my experience, pre-boarding with children has never appeared to be problematic, or a source of complaints from biz class pax. Just seemed like a common courtesy. A shame.

94 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3425 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10980 times:

Its likely because every study ever done has shown that small kids should board last. If anything one parent should board at normal time with the normal carry ons and older children if they are not needed to help with the young ones.

In the end minimizing the time you are exposing the child to the hostile and quite frightining enviroment of an aircraft interior should be your goal.


User currently offlineDLX737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1949 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10975 times:

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
From my experience, pre-boarding with children has never appeared to be problematic, or a source of complaints from biz class pax.

I disagree. As a former gate agent of another airline, I had numerous first class and elite passengers complain about families getting to preboard as they took forever sometimes, blocked aisles and most importantly, got first go at the overhead bins. A mute point, though I might add, considering first class passengers rarely ran out of overhead bin space on the plane.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10898 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 1):
In the end minimizing the time you are exposing the child to the hostile and quite frightining enviroment of an aircraft interior should be your goal.

How is the environment of an aircraft interior hostile and frightening? When I was a kid, I was positively intrigued by aircraft interiors. Most kids I know, especially boys, love exploring aircraft cabins.

As for UA's policy, it's stupid. AA did the same thing about a year after our son was born, and boarding an aircraft went from being easy to an experience of trying to move as quickly as the Flash.

It's far easier to tote a toddler and his car seat onto a plan, strap the seat in, and then strap the kid in, when you don't have a the rest of the passengers glaring at you while you have the aisle blocked.

What made the situation worse is that I become AA Gold, so I was boarding ahead of Group 1 and seated in the front of the cabin. That just held up the line even more. When boarding ahead of First, there isn't any problem, so long as you aren't in the First class cabin.

I was on an AA flight (MD-80) with 23 chilren under the age of 2 (it was the Christmas holidays). Boarding was a nightmare, because AA had gotten rid of pre-boarding of children.


User currently offlinePacNWJet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10865 times:

I flew on Southwest for the first time ever in March and was pleasantly surprised to see how efficient the boarding process works at WN. Southwest's boarding procedures call for families with small children to board between the "A" and "B groups:

"An adult traveling with a child four years old or younger may board during Family Boarding, which occurs between the "A" and "B" boarding groups. However, those Customers holding an "A" boarding pass should still board with the "A" boarding group. With an all-jet fleet outfitted with comfortable, leather seats, our families traveling with small children are easily accommodated together."

http://www.southwest.com/html/custom...ce/faqs.html?topic=boarding_school

Not having pre-boarding for families with small children does not seem to be a problem at all for Southwest. Instead, Southwest's system appears to be incredibly efficient, or at least that was my good luck on four flights in March.

[Edited 2012-05-25 13:59:37]

User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5198 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10758 times:

Maybe it's time for a "Family Zone" at the rear of the plane that boards after F and C. Then families and their children head to the back, then the middle of the aircraft boards. Booking websites would automatically show open seats only available in the rear when children under say 5 y/o are entered during the booking process. Then parents and small children can take their time to get situated without blocking the aisles in the center sections and are near other sympathetic travelers. Wouldn't work with open seating of course but it would seem to be a workable solution for both families and those flying without kids.


Next up, STL-ATL-MSY-ATL-STL
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5915 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10743 times:

Perhaps you were just over-entitled.

If you don't understand that comment, head over to the UA forum on flyertalk.

Sarcasm aside, I actually think preboarding for families with small children is a huge waste of time. Looking back on all of my flights for calendar year 2012, my observation has been that it doesn't save any time, it results in children being ON the airplane, STUCK in a seat for 30 minutes longer than everyone else, and half of the families with children don't even take advantage of it, which means we end up waiting on single mom with twelve baby kettles to board at the last minute anyway.

That said, I sadly don't have any children, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
But I still can't see making your kids board 15-30 minutes early being a good thing... kids' patience and attention span is short enough as it is.


User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10735 times:

The policy allowing small children additional time to board was intended to give parents additional time hauling car seats, strollers, etc. onto the aircraft and getting their child strapped into their seat. It was never intended to allow mom & dad to bring their elementary school-aged children on board, place their belonging (that would comfortably fit into half an overhead bin) into multiple bins -- and attempt to defend them from others use -- and let their kids run wild until it's time to depart. Worse, you're see an increasing number of tweens and teens included as "small children."

If you're traveling with an infant, special needs child or carrying strollers/etc. and you let the gate agent know you require additional time to board, I'm certain they'll be happy to oblige. But if you think you can use 12-year-old Tanner as an excuse to board early...



Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1733 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10733 times:

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):

While I don't have young kids myself (or any for that matter!) I understand your frustration.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 1):
In the end minimizing the time you are exposing the child to the hostile and quite frightining enviroment of an aircraft interior should be your goal.

I'm not sure what studies you are referencing, however, it has nothing to do with exposing a child to a hostile and frightening environment- most kids in my experience aren't bothered by the cabin when on the ground and with the engines off.

It's about this:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 3):
It's far easier to tote a toddler and his car seat onto a plan, strap the seat in, and then strap the kid in, when you don't have a the rest of the passengers glaring at you while you have the aisle blocked.

My friends with young kids remember doing simple things (like boarding an aircraft) before they had kids- most parents with small children just want to get their kids settled and out of the way of everyone else.

Also, imagine if young children did board last- do you think the flight would leave on-time?

Quoting DLX737200 (Reply 2):
I had numerous first class and elite passengers complain about families getting to preboard as they took forever sometimes, blocked aisles and most importantly, got first go at the overhead bins. A mute point, though I might add, considering first class passengers rarely ran out of overhead bin space on the plane.

This is where this new policy has come from, the self-annointed elite with a superiority complex (and I am not saying that all elites are like this, BTW), outraged that someone else steps aboard the aircraft before they do.

I have witnessed this vocal minority (to borrow the term) become so irked at the sight of someone in a wheelchair, or someone in a military uniform walk ahead of them down the jetbridge. I've had fellow elites try and cut in-front of me in line because they assumed I wasn't flying in the premium cabin. It makes my skin crawl.

Most pre-boarding families don't fly in premium cabins- therefore the SHARED overhead bin space in F or C isn't going to be compromised by the family in 29A,B,C.


I think UA should re-consider this move.


User currently offlineflashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2903 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10732 times:
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Can't say that I'm incredibly surprised by this... the entire UA-CO merger has been a debacle that has (intentionally or accidentally) thrown customer service straight out of the window. This is just par for the course.

User currently offlineDLD9S From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10540 times:

It has been about a year since I last flew UA, but I recall them offering a "free" checked bag, pre-boarding and elite access security line passes with my last ticket... basically "elite for a day" passes like AA's "Your Choice" product. Couldn't travelers with small children purchase if they really want to pre-board?


717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10498 times:

First off, congrats, NYCFlyer, on NYCFlyer Jr! Hope baby and parent(s) are doing well!

I think this is another case where the legitimate needs of the few are suffering due to the abuses of the many. The problem is that the "pre-boarding of families with children" process has gotten out of hand. No longer just a courtesy to the single parent juggling a baby, stroller, and carry on bag, my recent anecdotal experiences lead me to believe that every person traveling with someone under the age of 18 now thinks they're eligible to pre-board.

Although the gate agents could and should do a better job of enforcing the age limits, staffing is already bare bones at the gate at most airlines and I'm sure a lot of them don't want the potential of creating a scene.

I respectfully disagree with your assertion that UA (and other airlines) get nothing in return. Instead, it's one less thing to irritate elites and other FF who already stampede the boarding door 15 minutes before boarding even begins so they can...sit in their squished airplane seat for even longer than they already have to? I don't understand the phenomenon myself (yeah yeah, I get that those not in F are angling for overhead bin space in Y) but it's the nature of the beast nowdays.

USA Today.com posted an article about this a few days ago and the reader comments were overwhelmingly positive in favor of elimination.



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10432 times:

I'm of two opinions on this.
First, I'm sad another form of customer service is lost. I still say, if the airlines want to continue down this trend for catering to their elite, they'll find themselves as essentially scheduled biz jets flying 20% of the traffic they do now, because everyone else will simply find it no longer feasible to travel.

On the other hand, I never board my family first. That's 20 minutes less that I have to entertain squirmy kids in an airplane seat, and that's if the push back isn't late. Upon announcing that families with children can pre-board, that's the signal to relax, change the diaper one more time, one last bite of snack, etc. Then board as normal for the section. (My kids have a paid seat, I'm not hurting for carry-on space.)

Deterioration of CO and UA service has had me trying other airlines. I did try WN for the first time with the family a few months ago. I had trepidation about the boarding and seating together, but it was not a problem at all. I don't think I used a family boarding slot, just our A or B category numbers.

-Rampart


User currently offlinefrntman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 209 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10333 times:

It's purely about catering to the higher yielding frequent fliers. When they speak, the carrier's listen.

Generally, families traveling with younger children are lower yielding and despite raising the concerns about this policy, it'll fall on deaf ears from the carrier.

I have a two year old and as others have said, would take advantage of the time in the gate area to take care of the things that are much more difficult in the cabin.


User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 727 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10291 times:

I have to say that families boarding LAST sounds like a nightmare, too. I've stood in jetways and crept down too many aisles to think that it's better for the little terrors to join in that fun. Unless they tell the families to chill at the gate until the entire slow-ass boarding is done, the best place for anyone with kids is going to be at the front of the cattle call, and that just means they'll be milling 'round the door with the kids and accoutrement-- how is that a good thing?

There's definitely an aspect of not using bin space on full-sized carryons for pint-sized kids to this.

[Edited 2012-05-25 18:37:39]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23225 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10282 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 6):
But I still can't see making your kids board 15-30 minutes early being a good thing... kids' patience and attention span is short enough as it is.

I make no claim that my daughter (nearly 2 1/2) is a "typical" child, but she's generally more content on the plane than in the gate area. She finds the gate area chaotic and confusing, and being on a plane is "cool" enough that it's entertaining in itself. Moreover, she's and we are guaranteed to have a seat on the airplane, which isn't necessarily the case on the plane.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 12):
Although the gate agents could and should do a better job of enforcing the age limits, staffing is already bare bones at the gate at most airlines and I'm sure a lot of them don't want the potential of creating a scene.

I think that's a huge part of the problem, and WN's generally vigorous enforcement of the age limit (which is necessary because of their open seating policy) makes their child boarding go a lot more smoothly.

With a car seat, or even just with a little one, it does take a bit longer to get settled, and I for one appreciate the extra time, which comes at no cost to anyone else.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1733 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10268 times:

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 12):
Although the gate agents could and should do a better job of enforcing the age limits, staffing is already bare bones at the gate at most airlines and I'm sure a lot of them don't want the potential of creating a scene.

I respectfully disagree with your assertion that UA (and other airlines) get nothing in return. Instead, it's one less thing to irritate elites and other FF who already stampede the boarding door 15 minutes before boarding even begins so they can...sit in their squished airplane seat for even longer than they already have to? I don't understand the phenomenon myself (yeah yeah, I get that those not in F are angling for overhead bin space in Y) but it's the nature of the beast nowdays.

CSRs could certainly be more proactive. Some choose to enforce it, while others don't. It's a pick your battles type of situation. I recently hopped on a RNO-SFO flight. At the gate, the CSRs working the flight announced general boarding. The flight was pretty empty (it was a CRJ-200). I witnessed a Y-class passenger walk up out of the restroom and immediately to the gate, which had no line. He accidentally walked into the LEFT lane and on the red carpet. The CSR made him turn around and use the correct, non-red carpeted lane. He was the only guy boarding (other than myself). CSRs do have SOPs- but again, they pick their battles...

As for further irritating elites- those that really have a problem with this practice, IMO, need to get over themselves. Pre-boarding has been a practice for decades, it's not a new concept. If you (not YOU UALFA...) have a problem with flying with other people, rent a car and drive or charter a BizJet.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10261 times:

According to the article, UA just wants to reduce the number of boarding groups. UA will continue to pre-board anyone who requires 'extra time or assistance'.

I agree that kids should be in a family section in the rear of the plane, furthest from the HVC's in first/business. June 2008...BOM-JFK...15 hours of nonstop crying from a kid in the 1st row in Y.

There's a reason why windows in planes don't roll down!  



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10235 times:

According to the article, UA just wants to reduce the number of boarding groups. UA will continue to pre-board anyone who requires 'extra time or assistance'.

I agree that kids should be in a family section in the rear of the plane, furthest from the HVC's in first/business. BOM-JFK...15 hours of nonstop crying from a kid in 1st row in Y.

There's a reason windows in planes don't roll down!   



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineskycub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10206 times:

I am just going to throw this idea out here and it's just an idea, not my person opinion....

United has (and read flyertalk, there is plenty of truth to this) made it known that they cater to their most-frequent travelers. There are accounts after accounts after accounts on flyertalk about how United Global Service Members and United's highest-level members get preferential treatment over other travelers.

I am not making that assumption on my own... I am making based on the many United frequent travelers on flyertalk who post things like: "I love United and would not fly anyone else, but that is because I have status. If anyone I knew did not have status on United, I would not recommend them."

It is, apparently, no secret that United is not a carrier that caters to leisure travelers and travelers chasing the lowest fare.

There is nothing wrong with that.

However, in this day of planes in the United States flying at or near capacity on EVERY flight.... of there being SO many people loyal to one carrier that the upgrade list and the request for exit-row seats are overwhelmed... of planes being packed and the overhead bins being even more packed than the seats.... perhaps United, and the other airlines that adopt this policy, are saying: "Since we cannot upgrade or move to premium seats our most LOYAL customers, the least we can do is guarantee some overhead bin space for them." You gotta admit, frequent flyers HATE checking their carry-ons on. They fly so much that the last thing they want to do is go wait at baggage claim...which is understandable.

So here you have a high-flying, very loyal customer to United (or another carrier) who can't get an upgrade, who can't even get into an exit row and who has to board in their "Group" or "Zone" only to be told that their carryons have to be checked when:

Quoting DLX737200 (Reply 2):
I had numerous first class and elite passengers complain about families getting to preboard as they took forever sometimes, blocked aisles and most importantly, got first go at the overhead bins

Or:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 7):
It was never intended to allow mom & dad to bring their elementary school-aged children on board, place their belonging (that would comfortably fit into half an overhead bin) into multiple bins -- and attempt to defend them from others use

Read some threads on flyertalk where there are topics like: "The longest upgrade list you have ever seen?" or "Number 56 on the upgrade list? Really???"

These are frequent flyers who spend A LOT of money and have their loyalty with ONE single airline....and they can't get an upgrade and then board in coach only to find that a family who booked on that particular airline based on price alone has taken up several overhead bins because they got to board first. It has to be frustrating to be a loyal customer, spending A LOT to only fly one airline... board and find there is no bin space left and they must check their carryon.

Look, I am not pro- or anti- family boarding. I can see both sides of it. The family needs extra time to get the car seat in place but then takes up an entire overhead bin because they are empty on boarding.... and the frequent flyer who spends a lot on an airline not able to find bin space when they are forced to board in Zone 107 because their upgrade didn't clear. I really can see BOTH sides....

But from an airline side... who do you want to upset more? The family that is only flying because XYZ Airlines had the cheapest fare and will jump to ABC Airlines the next time if they are cheaper? Or the frequent flyer who is loyal to XYZ Airlines that paid $1,000 the same day for a same-day ticket and couldn't get upgraded and the LEAST he or she could ask for is bin space?

Some of you may thing that is silly.... but go over to flyertalk. See how seriously the passengers who are loyal to ONE airline feel about bin space. It's a big deal.

United, and I do not fault them for this, caters to the repeat customer. They do. Maybe this is just one way to guarantee that when you have loyal customers who could not be upgraded and board first... the least they can do is guarantee bin space. That extra 30 minutes at baggage claim may not mean a lot to the family who is flying once a year.... but for a United customer who flies weekly or more... who spends a good part of their life on United aircraft and whos time is very valuable.... that extra 30 minutes is a big deal.

I see how infrequent flyers (and those with small kids) use the overheads.... they fill them up with their shopping bag, their hat, their wife's purse, the baby bag, the kid's backpack, every carry-on they have, the one personal carryon and the one personal belonging and the exceptions made for babies...an entire bin filled before Zone or Group One even gets to step foot on the plane.... Maybe United sees this as an opportunity to provide one last perk to their loyal customers who don't get the benefit of an upgrade.


User currently offlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 827 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10044 times:

I have a 27 month old boy who has flown since he was 3 months old - 28 flights total, including some TATL and TPAC flights. I think it's better if families with small kids board first. This way the most difficult part, the boarding through the bridge and standing there and then in the airplane isle is the shortest possible. On the airline that we fly we go as the first, find our economy seats, and then we are out of the way. Once in the seats I can easily entertain my kid with a book or by watching "ai-paa" through the window.


The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7859 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9785 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 1):
Its likely because every study ever done has shown that small kids should board last. If anything one parent should board at normal time with the normal carry ons and older children if they are not needed to help with the young ones.

I boarded zone one on my DL flight today from PHX and when I got onboard, there were screaming kids running up and down the aisles and sweating parents trying to control them. I agree, they should board last. I had to literally scream at some kid to move back to his back-row seat so I could easily slip into my seat and out of harms way, since I'm a window seat. The parent thanked me. I was worried he was going to yell at me.

But yeah, it's a lot safer to board the kids last.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 18):
I agree that kids should be in a family section in the rear of the plane, furthest from the HVC's in first/business. June 2008...BOM-JFK...15 hours of nonstop crying from a kid in the 1st row in Y.

Heyyyyy a new marketing idea!   
BOOM "DL is now offering family seating packages onboard DL flights, complete with complimentary baby formula and a blanket and wider seats to fit car seats"         



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9759 times:

Moot point for mainline as the bin is the bin but on large RJs, it was always very annoying to have to deal with strollers, car seats, and wheel chairs at the last minute. Why? Because you generally can fit all your valet bags in the smaller forward bin on the CR7s/9s. Getting 3-4 strollers 10 minutes before departure is not fun. Not when you'e trying to deal with everything else going on with the flight plus fighting with 25 valet bags and now have to find help to load the strollers in the back.

UA can and will do what it thinks is best but operationally, I rather take a SLIGHT delay at the front end of the flight rather than the back end, It's much easier to recover from the former. There's too much going on during the last 10-15 minutes of the flight to then have to deal with single mom and her 1 year old plus the stroller, carry-on, baby bag, etc. and possibly 2-3 other families with all the same stuff.

[Edited 2012-05-25 21:34:05]


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offline777law From Monaco, joined Jul 2006, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9262 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 7):
Worse, you're see an increasing number of tweens and teens included as "small children."

I think that that is probably the point of UA's new policy - to put an end to the increasing number of passengers who are using their almost teen-age childern to board at the same time as priority passengers.

I'm UA Premier Platinum and I have a 2 year old daughter who frequently travels with my wife and me. Frankly, I've never understood the reason that families with children (my family included) get to board at the same time as or before the elite status passengers just because they have children. In fact, there's been a few times that I've been positively furious that families with "children" (e.g. Tommy will be starting Junior High next year) have boarded before me or with me. There is simply no reason for it. The FA's know how to handle children - you either need a bassinet or you don't and you leave your stroller on the jet way - and that's that.

My wife and I have never really needed extra time to get settled in with our daughter when we've flown with her - even on long-haul flights like ORD-HKG or SIN-FRA. And, like others have said here, it's not always great to pre-board with a child. We've often found it easier if one of us boards normally and gets settled and the other boards at the last minute with our daughter. Our 2 year old does not want to be on the plane any longer than she absolutely needs to be.

This is actually quite a sensible policy by UA.



UA- Premier Platinum, AF / KL - Flying Blue Petroleum, BA Executive Club Silver
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23225 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8760 times:

Quoting skycub (Reply 19):
Look, I am not pro- or anti- family boarding. I can see both sides of it. The family needs extra time to get the car seat in place but then takes up an entire overhead bin because they are empty on boarding.... and the frequent flyer who spends a lot on an airline not able to find bin space when they are forced to board in Zone 107 because their upgrade didn't clear. I really can see BOTH sides....

Frequent fliers, at least those who are rational, understand that there are consequences in terms of seat choice and bin space to making many of the choices that frequent fliers make (loitering in the gate area for an upgrade, standing by, etc.). Those who are irrational flock to flyertalk.

Though on the other hand, I stood by for a WN flight a couple of weeks ago that was on a full 735 and got the last seat. The f/a made room for my carryon (22 inch bag that has to go sideways on a 735). That's really how the system ought to work on all carriers.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 877 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8988 times:

As a single male, no children, I applaud UAs decision! The world is full of companies who pander to the whims of people who have chosen to have children then expect everyone else to accommodate their needs at no extra cost and at inconvenience to everyone else.

I am all in favour of the MS [I think] decision to have child free zones on some of their routes - bliss.

I'll sit back now and await the howls of protest from the parents of this world.

     


User currently offlinetraindoc From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 8638 times:

As a 1K, I am glad they are ending this. When I pay more to fly up front, I should not be pre-empted by families or other non F passengers (except military!). If I pay more to fly, then I expect a higher level of service. When I fly in coach, then I don't expect to board first, etc.

The problem now with air travel is that people want to pay Walmart prices, but want Nieman Marcus service. And yes, the coach pax will indeed fill up the first class bins if they board first.


User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1733 posts, RR: 3
Reply 27, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 8657 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 25):

Though like yourself, I am a single male with no children, and I believe your argument is sophistry, I'll bite for the sake of making another point.

- Pre-boarding doesn't cost any additional money to the airline or operation.
- The elimination of pre-boarding isn't going to allow the first boarding group to board any earlier either, the flight simply won't open 5-10 minutes earlier.

Quoting skycub (Reply 19):
and the frequent flyer who spends a lot on an airline not able to find bin space when they are forced to board in Zone 107 because their upgrade didn't clear. I really can see BOTH sides....

That sounds like a personal problem. CSRs do their best, and usually clear upgrades before boarding starts. Whether they distribute the new boarding passes is another story. I personally go into the stand-by waiting game with the mentality that my upgrade WON'T clear (which is becoming more of a reality now post merger with CO). It's much less stressful, and much more of a pleasant surprise when they do call your name and you're cleared!

Quoting traindoc (Reply 26):
As a 1K, I am glad they are ending this. When I pay more to fly up front, I should not be pre-empted by families or other non F passengers (except military!). If I pay more to fly, then I expect a higher level of service. When I fly in coach, then I don't expect to board first, etc.

So you believe that you should board before an elderly person in a wheelchair who needs extra time or assistance to get to their seat? Just need some clarification.

And you are getting a higher level of service (I suppose) by flying in the premium cabin. I don't see how someone who needs extra time to board interferes with your "higher level of service"

[quote/]
The problem now with air travel is that people want to pay Walmart prices, but want Nieman Marcus service. And yes, the coach pax will indeed fill up the first class bins if they board first. [/quote]

This is a reductionist argument. How can you draw a connection between pre-boarding and price/value? I could argue the same thing about customers who buy Y-class tickets, get upgraded at check-in or at the gate and complain about the service on-board in the premium cabin. (For example, complaints about service-flow where GS/1K are given first-choice of meals, etc.)

[Edited 2012-05-26 07:45:11]

User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1177 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 8577 times:

What? 26 replies and no one brought up child free flights?

But seriously, why not create a families and children section of Y? Squeeze a bulkhead in somewhere in back for bassinets and ta-da!


User currently offlineDLD9S From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7836 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 17):
I agree that kids should be in a family section in the rear of the plane, furthest from the HVC's in first/business. June 2008...BOM-JFK...15 hours of nonstop crying from a kid in the 1st row in Y.
Quoting LOWS (Reply 28):
But seriously, why not create a families and children section of Y? Squeeze a bulkhead in somewhere in back for bassinets and ta-da!

I think this is a novel idea, but reality is that the last couple rows are often the only seats available for pre-assigning without a fee, so they fill up quickly with non-elites who don't want to pay extra for the first 20 rows of windows and aisles...

This leads to another problem that I have seen more and more - families that chose not to pay extra to sit together because they assume the airline will do it for them automatically or that the plane won't be full, and have a melt down when their family of 5 is in 5 different middle seats. This inevitably leads to some passenger who did pay extra for a nice seat to be pressured into taking the middle (for no refund).



717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
User currently offlineCZ346 From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 95 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7855 times:

Quoting skycub (Reply 19):

Bravo sir, bravo.

I'm Global Services on UA and I do the UA116/117 leg 4-5 times a month. At this point, I get upgraded pretty much on every flight without fail. I was on UA116 Wednesday (purchased as a full-fare economy) and boraded as Y. T be honest - most of the time I don't have a problem with the families boarding first, but on this flight it has become an issue. I was in 24F to start out with, and when they boarded 1K and GS, we got on the plane and the flight was probably already 1/4 full. There was a family of 6 who had gotten on, loaded up 5 bins with half of their stuff and sat down in seats together that were not theirs (24D-L, inclnuding my seat). When I asked them if they were in my seat, they requested that I switch seats with one of them so they could sit with their children. I typically do not mind it and happily oblidge, but they asked me to sit on the last row middle seat, inbetween a 4 year old kid and his father who both wanted aisle seats. One of the FAs who I know overheard the situation came over and told the family they needed to sit in their assigned seat until they completed boarding and at that point she would try to provide them with seats together, but nothing could be promised. Then turned to me and said the famous "Chris, would you like to grab your bags and come with me?". He ended up moving the other 2 people who were in that row to seats that they preffered within Y and the family was able to sit together.

I applauded the [ex-CO] FA who did all of that to help them, but if I was 1K and had not been ugraded and had to sit in 24F with a family of 3 kids between 2-4 and 1 baby, all who were allowed to board before and individual who flies 250,000 miles a year (half the time in F) with all the overhead bins within 4 rows of me riddled with baby bottles, I would have been pretty upset. I think having families be asked to sit in a rear section of the aircraft is a pretty smart ideas...


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7647 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 5):
Maybe it's time for a "Family Zone" at the rear of the plane that boards after F and C. Then families and their children head to the back, then the middle of the aircraft boards. Booking websites would automatically show open seats only available in the rear when children under say 5 y/o are entered during the booking process. Then parents and small children can take their time to get situated without blocking the aisles in the center sections and are near other sympathetic travelers. Wouldn't work with open seating of course but it would seem to be a workable solution for both families and those flying without kids.

What if you're elite, like I am? I always get in the front of the coach cabin on AA, especially since the first few rows on the 3 side of the MD-80 have a bit more legroom than the back of the plane. Would you just stick me in the back of the plane, because I'm traveling with a child, despite being Liftetime Gold? Despite the fact that I have a child, now age 9, he does understand that misbehaving on a plane can get you thrown off, and possibly a chat with TSA.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 6):
Sarcasm aside, I actually think preboarding for families with small children is a huge waste of time. Looking back on all of my flights for calendar year 2012, my observation has been that it doesn't save any time, it results in children being ON the airplane, STUCK in a seat for 30 minutes longer than everyone else, and half of the families with children don't even take advantage of it, which means we end up waiting on single mom with twelve baby kettles to board at the last minute anyway.

If you have a 18-month old, or even a 3 year old strapped into a car seat, he's not going anywhere. My son was almost 5 before he went into a booster seat, and he really couldn't figure out how to undo the buckles on the car seat. Once he was in his seat and belted, he was in until we let him out. Besides, there is the activity on the ramp to keep him occupied, as well as the book of toys and games.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):
I make no claim that my daughter (nearly 2 1/2) is a "typical" child, but she's generally more content on the plane than in the gate area. She finds the gate area chaotic and confusing, and being on a plane is "cool" enough that it's entertaining in itself. Moreover, she's and we are guaranteed to have a seat on the airplane, which isn't necessarily the case on the plane.

Hear, hear. This is especially the case, when there is a delay. My son deals with delays very poorly. He just wants to get on the plane. The worst was when he was 18 months, and our flied was delayed to the point that AA didn't even assign a departure gate. The plane leaving ORD for ATL was stuck in BOS due to a Noreaster, and AA was trying to find a plane to swap. You don't even know where to sit, with H, K, and L all as potential departure points.


User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2903 posts, RR: 2
Reply 32, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7173 times:

Quoting traindoc (Reply 26):
When I pay more to fly up front, I should not be pre-empted by families or other non F passengers (except military!).

Without necessary wanting to hijack the thread, why would you except military? Would you except all of them? Also those working 100% of their time in offices? What about firemen? Policemen? FBI/CIA officers? Coal miners? [They are all dangerous jobs.] Doctors/nurses? Teachers? [They are community-service jobs.] Just curious.



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7325 posts, RR: 85
Reply 33, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6988 times:
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UA changed the policy a while back. Kids go with group 2. The new United boarding policy is a joke. As a GS, I board with some idiot that gets elite access cause he opened a United World Explorer credit card? Sometimes I get to board before group one and sometimes not. Again, as I've stated a hundred times on this site - nothing with the new United is consistent.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 1):
Its likely because every study ever done has shown that small kids should board last.

Sounds good to me.


User currently offlineCZ346 From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 95 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6846 times:

See, I've always noticed the Elite pax with kids understand that if they are unable or unwilling to control their kid, it is a major major major major inconvenience to other pax. I do however, this that if there is a family with very young children, they should be seated towards the back of the plane. I'm not talking 9 years old, or even really 5 or 6 years old.... I mean the kids who get on a plane and cry cry cry cry cry, who require extra special attention. Most children age 7-11 are excited to be on a plane, laugh, ask questions and are generally entertained well.

Again though, I'm only doing 20-30 PQS's a year and am basing a lot of this on 13-16 hour flights over the north pole. UA just needs to be consistent - Board F, then GS followed by 1K, then maybe bundle families in with the gold/silver MP pax.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 33):

I agree 100%. I do admit as GS I get bumped up 24h before the flight pretty much without fail, but when I am Y I get kind of miffed if they don't have a GS/1K boarding group and role gold/silver into there...


User currently offlinevctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6736 times:

Quoting fxramper (Reply 33):
UA changed the policy a while back. Kids go with group 2. The new United boarding policy is a joke. As a GS, I board with some idiot that gets elite access cause he opened a United World Explorer credit card? Sometimes I get to board before group one and sometimes not. Again, as I've stated a hundred times on this site - nothing with the new United is consistent.

I haven't flown on UA since the merger, but I did fly on DL not long after everything was integrated and I was shocked at how consistent everything was. It's a shame that UA couldn't learn from the DL playbook.


User currently offlineIndustryInsider From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6688 times:

I have two four year old children and have no problem with this. Granted, I travel a lot and know what and what not to do, but I'm always amazed at everyone's sense of entitlement because of their kids. If you plan ahead, bring only what is necessary onto the aircraft, then you will be okay. My kids have always flown with me and my wife at least twice a month ever since they were 6 months old and I have never had to, nor felt like I needed, request extra time in boarding. Oh, and I'm Exec Plat on AA and Premier Gold on UA. Apart from that, I have never received any preferential treatment nor have I ever had to use my status to board early with my kids.

With that said, my kids have always been good. I have NEVER had any incident with them including excessive crying or even a tantrum as I have seen with other families. Often times people comment that they didn't know there was a child in the row behind/ in front of them let alone two.


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1950 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6674 times:

Quoting CZ346 (Reply 30):
I was in 24F to start out with, and when they boarded 1K and GS, we got on the plane and the flight was probably already 1/4 full. There was a family of 6 who had gotten on, loaded up 5 bins with half of their stuff and sat down in seats together that were not theirs (24D-L, inclnuding my seat). When I asked them if they were in my seat, they requested that I switch seats with one of them so they could sit with their children. I typically do not mind it and happily oblidge, but they asked me to sit on the last row middle seat, inbetween a 4 year old kid and his father who both wanted aisle seats.

Tell me about it...
Three weeks ago, I flew UA out to LAS for a military exercise planning conference at LSV. Full fare economy ticket. Had an original seat assignment in economy plus due to that...UA arbitrarily kicked me back to a middle seat in regular E. Gate agent changed me to a window seat at least. Got on the plane...a mom, dad, and infant in a car seat boarded absolutely dead LAST on a completely full flight from IAH to LAS. Dad got a different seat assignment than mom and infant...mom and infant got the middle and aisle on my row. Mom thinks it'll be ok to put infant in car seat in the middle seat, completely blocking me. "Oh, just let me know if you need to get up to use the lav, I'll move this seat for you." That's nice lady, now what about if I need to egress the aircraft in an emergency? FA finally catches the stupidity and makes me give up my window so the car seat baby is in compliance with the FAA regs. After level-off, I do the gentlemanly thing and find the dad so that the family can sit together. Dad's in my originally assigned middle seat in the back...next to a fat tub of lard who smells like a cess pool. THAT was a wonder flight.

UA needs to walk a fine line here. Obviously catering to their frequent flier base is good business sense. However, there needs to be well thought-out (and well advertised) guidelines regarding family boarding and seating, not just by UA but by all the majors. Maybe having family boarding in the middle of the boarding process like WN does will be an idea to the rest of the industry.


User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7325 posts, RR: 85
Reply 38, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6531 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 37):
UA needs to walk a fine line here. Obviously catering to their frequent flier base is good business sense. However, there needs to be well thought-out (and well advertised) guidelines regarding family boarding and seating, not just by UA but by all the majors. Maybe having family boarding in the middle of the boarding process like WN does will be an idea to the rest of the industry.

Absolutely brilliant post and I'm sorry UA treated you like that. Only at the new UA will a military vet go from a E+ to where you ended up. Too bad Smisek wasn't there to greet you like he famously tells us on the demo video.


User currently offlineDTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 812 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6470 times:

Quoting fxramper (Reply 33):
. As a GS, I board with some idiot that gets elite access cause he opened a United World Explorer credit card?

And you are the idiot who became GS only because your company paid for your tickets and not you!! So why are you complaining of somebody else who took advantage of what UA offered to him? Atleast he may be paying for his tickets himself.


User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1733 posts, RR: 3
Reply 40, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6189 times:

Quoting fxramper (Reply 33):
The new United boarding policy is a joke. As a GS, I board with some idiot that gets elite access cause he opened a United World Explorer credit card?

Graceless.


User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6079 times:

Another major problem with the pre-boarding is the pile up of strollers on the jetbridge causing massive log jams on flights like MCO. It causes delays in the boarding. Ramp isn't gonna go up until just about go time however its gotten so bad with gate checks that the gate will radio for us to come up to get it out of the way.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlinePrinair From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 744 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6040 times:

This is wonderful. All airlines should follow this trend. Your choice to reproduce should not entitle you to special treatment.
Now, if the airlines could get rid of the WCHR service.... I've noticed over the years that most people request the service out of pure laziness...



PRINAIR : Puerto Rico International Airlines
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1950 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5857 times:

Quoting Prinair (Reply 42):
Your choice to reproduce should not entitle you to special treatment.

I'd give my left you-know-what for you to tell that to your parents!


User currently offlineCtermua From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5734 times:

I think the better question is, why would UA put out a PR about not providing Family boarding when we've only done it for a few months, after years of not providing Family boarding. It's another example for employees of UA that there is absolutely nobody in charge of this airline. Consistancy, as has been noted above, is non existent. We go from not boarding kids to a spurt of boarding..and then not boarding...with a PR to anger the travelling public to boot.

Never mind the actual boarding process.....which has changed so many times, with so many seating areas added and subtracted that it causes all of us to just shake our head at the sheer stupidity of those making these decisions.

I could go on and on. Trust me, there is absolutely no rhyme or reason to any decisions made in the last three months...and we, as employees and you, the general public, all suffer for it.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 45, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5637 times:

Quoting contrails15 (Reply 41):


Idk about other airlines but with DL they usually do not pre-board families on their MCO flights for this very reason. At least that's been my observation in MSP.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineTX2FL From United States of America, joined May 2010, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5621 times:

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 16):
Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 16):
As for further irritating elites- those that really have a problem with this practice, IMO, need to get over themselves. Pre-boarding has been a practice for decades, it's not a new concept. If you (not YOU UALFA...) have a problem with flying with other people, rent a car and drive or charter a BizJet.

That is true..and as far as overhead space goes the elites are the WORST offenders when it comes to not sharing the bin space. They want their roll-aboard and their computer bags that are the size of a roll-aboard in the overhead bins, because they need their "legroom". I've witnessed this SO many times I just want to take out those bags and put it in their laps because they are really the ones that cause the slowdown of the boarding process. As a gate agent and supervisor this was my biggest pet peeve. I don't know why the flight attendants onboard would never enforce it when they plainly saw passengers offending this one in the bin one under the seat policy.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3245 posts, RR: 1
Reply 47, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5596 times:

My wife flew PVD-BWI-BNA on WN last week. She told me families with kids were permitted to board at both PVD and BWI and the end of the "A" or the beginning of the "B" boarding group. I suppose the change was made to insure the integrity of those who purchase advanced $10 boarding group assignments. which guarantees them a "A" boarding group assignment. She had a high "A" and was actually allowed to board before a family of four in BWI.


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinewoodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1031 posts, RR: 2
Reply 48, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5508 times:

Its interesting to think back to when some of us were kids (for me, in the 70s) and when my family traveled there were never giant SUV size strollers, suitcases of toys and other ridiculous overdone kid-stuff to load. Nowdays you can see strollers the size of small apartments and more toys than would ever be realistically needed for any child brought everywhere including the airplane. Parents throw temper tantrums when they are forced to gate check this stuff which makes it miserable for everyone. Maybe it is better to get this out of the way at the beginning than to mix it in with everyone else, but maybe if families boarded with their small children along with rows like everyone else they would be motivated to cooperate and get to their seats faster? I dont know, I just know I would never bring the quantity of stuff I see these days on board for my son. He is fine with his backpack and we NEVER checked or used a stroller in the airport, that always seemed like more trouble than it was worth and from what I see, I was right!

User currently onlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13451 posts, RR: 100
Reply 49, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5508 times:
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Sadly. I understand this. To be honest, as a parent with two small kids, we have utilized the pre-boarding. I felt like I was 'cheating' getting the pre-boarding. But it helped.

Quoting skycub (Reply 19):
It is, apparently, no secret that United is not a carrier that caters to leisure travelers and travelers chasing the lowest fare.

Ok. That just ensured I earn my FF miles elsewhere. Over half of the road warriors I know have their FF miles spent by the spouse/kids.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 48):
I dont know, I just know I would never bring the quantity of stuff I see these days on board for my son.

I agree with you. Now get my wife to agree...

Quoting contrails15 (Reply 41):
Another major problem with the pre-boarding is the pile up of strollers on the jetbridge causing massive log jams on flights like MCO.

Try to keep a child entertained at an airport post TSA screening for a long time without that stroller. While a pile up, they are a necessity.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 37):
UA needs to walk a fine line here. Obviously catering to their frequent flier base is good business sense. However, there needs to be well thought-out (and well advertised) guidelines regarding family boarding and seating, not just by UA but by all the majors. Maybe having family boarding in the middle of the boarding process like WN does will be an idea to the rest of the industry.

Now that makes sense. Let on some of the elites first. Do not put families first... I like that idea. For the record, I'm one of those families. But it has to be fair and balanced and your suggestion strikes me as workable.

Honestly, the family policies are from an era when load factors were less than 80%. With today's often full flights, something has to give.


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineVS4ever From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 129 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5428 times:

Sorry for the long post, but there are lots of individual issues being discussed here, so wanted to deal with them while my mind was still working properly.


Although the upgrade issue is a complex one and I fully understand those in GS and 1K who don't get being upgraded being miffed by some of the situations noted here. I actually think there are some simple solutions.

1. Nobody has talked about the role of the cabin crew in all of this. Whenever I board a plane, I am warmly greeted by the cabin crew who point me in the right direction of where to go to sit. Now, forgive me, but 99/100 F is separated, and E+ is also slightly separated from Y. So....... in the case of pre-boarding, to avoid the issues noted. i.e Y passengers using F space for their huge amounts of carryons. Perhaps a relocation of 1 cabin crew member early in the boarding process would assist the situation. Then when our lovely friends the elites board, at least for the F guys and/or e+, there will not be an issue with space.

As I said the upgrade situation is a little more difficult, but again, with most elites boarding at the beginning of the process, perhaps a little more communication would help. All aircraft have the internal intercom's and with only a few people boarding at the beginning, perhaps a call down the aircraft. "hey this guy is an elite and he's going in Y, can we make sure he has some space set for him, might not be a bad idea. I do fully appreciate that in the boarding sequences, the F/A's already have a lot to do, but given UA's stated aims of focusing on their FF folks, would this not be a bad idea at least as a trial?

2. If the problem is families taking the bleep so to speak and boarding with Kevin 17 and Louise 14, and not with Lauren 2 and Leo 3, then perhaps the answer is rather than ruin it for those who DO need it, just change the policy and say children under say 5. It's pretty easy to spot the difference between a 5 year old and a tween/teen for the most part, so as long as it's announced at the gate and enforced (here's that word again) "CONSISTENTLY", again, coupled with #1, our elite friends should not be inconvienced too much

3. As for Elites wanting to board before everyone, you know, why not, let them. Just swap the groups around kind of like SWA, board the FF's first, so they get their space and set up and cleared out of the aisles, then let the families with small children and disabled board next. To me, this makes a lot of sense, everyone wins.... almost.

4. Families sitting together - hot button topic right now, with airlines messing with the release of seats, it's becoming harder than ever to get what you want or need. This becomes a revenue vs passenger satisfaction argument. Clearly with UA and others wishing to maxmize revenue, they are not showing seats so families can sit together and while the Walmart philosophy does apply here, families with young children should be able to buy seats to sit together, again it just makes sense. the issue is the additional fees some are charging. But with the right planning and conversations this should be possible, I am sure a quick call to probably not UA customer services by the sound of it, lol would be in order to make sure it gets set up correctly and they should advise this on the websites when booking....

What ticks me off and I think others too, is the case of the families booking all the separate seats because they didn't plan properly or work with the airline to get it right and then expect everyone else to move for their sake. Um No. I buy the seat I want, I want to sit in it for that reason. I am not saying I wouldn't be cordial and friendly, but the entitlement crap gets on my nerves.

I am sure I will get shot down for some of this, which is fine, sometimes I just think there are slightly different ways to deal with things, is all.

VS4ever.



Bring Back Orion Airways, you were the best!
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4127 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5289 times:
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I fear I am with UA on this one. I have seen so much abuse that unless there's ample visual evidence that pre-boarding is appropriate and necessary, it should no longer be offered. Whether they board before or after me, as an elite, isn't something that worries me much. I have rarely lost bin space to a family (but I have every now and then to a douche who dumped his bags above row 2 before walking down to row 22 when I was late for boarding).

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 17):
According to the article, UA just wants to reduce the number of boarding groups.

On the one hand, I'd say finally! There are too many as it is. On the other, they have changed them so often that I am not sure the gate agents have had time to get used to the changes three changes ago.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 37):
UA needs to walk a fine line here. Obviously catering to their frequent flier base is good business sense.

It is a very fine line. Frequent fliers will retire one day (at least I plan to) and UA will have to replace them. The young parents of today may be the globe-trotting executives of tomorrow, and they may choose to be loyal to the airline that didn't treat them like a huge inconvenience before they became so valuable...

Quoting contrails15 (Reply 41):
Another major problem with the pre-boarding is the pile up of strollers on the jetbridge causing massive log jams on flights like MCO.

One way or the other, these strollers will be there and will slow down departure. If parents don't pre-board, then everyone will wait inside the plane while rampers finish loading up all the strollers that have piled up during boarding.

Quoting VS4ever (Reply 50):
Perhaps a relocation of 1 cabin crew member early in the boarding process would assist the situation.

So which crew member shall we displace? The one making the elites' pre--departure drink or the one stowing away the catering in the back?

Quoting VS4ever (Reply 50):
It's pretty easy to spot the difference between a 5 year old and a tween/teen for the most part

Yes, but what about the difference between a 5-year old and an 8-year old? One agent will not spot the difference, but the next one will and will refuse pre-boarding. Parents will react no differently than if the agent had just proposed that their offspring be roasted at the back of the engine, will demand all sorts of intervention from a supervisor, the police, their senator, Santa Claus, and will make themselves a massive nuisance holding up boarding for everyone else for 20 minutes.

Quoting VS4ever (Reply 50):
families with young children should be able to buy seats to sit together

Usually, families can already buy specific seats (E+ for instance) but they choose not to incur the extra expense, expecting the airline to sort it out for them. To be fair, it's not as if they get any advance warning while selecting flights that their party might be split either, and if they aren't happy with their free seating options, they'd have to restart the whole process.

Quoting VS4ever (Reply 50):
All aircraft have the internal intercom's and with only a few people boarding at the beginning, perhaps a call down the aircraft. "hey this guy is an elite and he's going in Y, can we make sure he has some space set for him

I believe you don't fully realize how busy gate agents and F/As are during boarding.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1284 posts, RR: 6
Reply 52, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5188 times:

Quite a few airlines already seem to have done away with that procedure. I travel with kinds pretty often cant say I get to bummed when they dont call us. QF for example never seem to do this when we depart AKL.

Also in many countries they tend to say we will now board passengers traveling with children under the age of five. Seems reasonable to me. Still half the time they do this it seems 40 people without kids still attack the gate in hope of being first onboard. Some agents care, some don't. To be honest I don't blame those that don't, not paid enough to really care and rarely employed by the airline itself so hard to be a dedicated employee as well.

One part of the argument some people post here I struggle to understand.
Why first and business class travellers would want to be the first to board. This is beyond me. Whenever I travel by myself I prefer to sit in the lounge etc and then stroll out when most of the boarding is completed. Why would a roadwarrior wanna be early onto a plane?
How many frequent flyer's really want to spend an extra 20 minutes in the all to familiar airplane seat just so they can feel good of themselves while walking onto the plane first?
Add on standing 10 minutes waiting at the gate. What frequent traveller is interested in that just so he can show off for 10 seconds???
To me that's more the type of flyer's that just achieve their status and see it as a milestone. Thus not the flyer's the airline need to cater for the most...

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 49):
Ok. That just ensured I earn my FF miles elsewhere. Over half of the road warriors I know have their FF miles spent by the spouse/kids.

Thats a very good point. My points, and I earn a fair bit, tend to go to the multiple holiday trips me and the family goes on. Most roadwarriors and premier passengers I know have families and kids. We also have more points than needed and usually our extended families use these points.
UA better tread carefully here.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 49):

I agree with you. Now get my wife to agree...

That's the thing, me away on a businesstrip; I'm packing light and no worries. Me travelling with kids and wife, voila I need to use both check in and carry on to the full.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days ago) and read 4984 times:

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 8):

It's about this:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 3):It's far easier to tote a toddler and his car seat onto a plan, strap the seat in, and then strap the kid in, when you don't have a the rest of the passengers glaring at you while you have the aisle blocked.
My friends with young kids remember doing simple things (like boarding an aircraft) before they had kids- most parents with small children just want to get their kids settled and out of the way of everyone else.

Having flown a lot with small kids (my eldest took her 50th flight before her 3rd birthday!) I don't see the logic in this decision. Now to be clear, IU am not talking about a 6 year old as a "small child", but babies and toddlers.

Try carrying a car seat down the aisle of a 737, while you (and every aisle-seated passenger) tries hard to make sure that nobody's head takes a hit. While dealing with other carry on and trailing children as well, typically with no help from the FAs. I've had to do that on flights where I was not there in time for pre-boarding - not fun for anybody.

OR the FA's have to stop what they are doing and help.

OR I have to make 2 trips to the door of the cabin.

and if the overhead bins are full? then the FA's have to help find space for the stuff, but not until we organize what is needed for the fist part of the flight (as opposed to shove it over my seat, and stand when I can find 20 seconds prior to push back to grab what we need).

Will this make the overall boarding and departure more efficient or less?

As a general comment: try taking a subway ride with a toddler in a stroller, or going shopping at a mall. virtually EVERYBODY will assist, or make way to ensure that the parent and child can manage, offering seats up, etc. Why is there such a lack of common decency when it comes to flying?


User currently offlineDLD9S From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4945 times:

Charles Schumer has asked airlines to let families with small children to sit together without having to pay extra fees:

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/s...-drop-seat-fee-for-kids/55231100/1



717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 55, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 27):
So you believe that you should board before an elderly person in a wheelchair who needs extra time or assistance to get to their seat?
Do you REALLY think he meant that?

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 53):
As a general comment: try taking a subway ride with a toddler in a stroller, or going shopping at a mall. virtually EVERYBODY will assist, or make way to ensure that the parent and child can manage, offering seats up, etc. Why is there such a lack of common decency when it comes to flying?

Because there isn't another plane in the next 5 minutes....Because it's easier to sit and/or get up from a seat on the subway.....Because aisles are wider in subways....Because you'll be on the subway for only about 45 minutes....Because the subway ride didn't cost $4,298.16 for you and your family.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2903 posts, RR: 2
Reply 56, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 55):
Because the subway ride didn't cost $4,298.16 for you and your family.

And I guess boarding right after a family with a 2-yr-old kid on a 10-hour flight to Europe just ruined your $10K vacation, like TOTALLY.   



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlinenycdave From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 57, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4825 times:

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 9):
Can't say that I'm incredibly surprised by this... the entire UA-CO merger has been a debacle that has (intentionally or accidentally) thrown customer service straight out of the window. This is just par for the course.

I'm still having a hard time deciding who's angrier -- UA flyers who think CO has dragged their service down, or CO flyers who think UA has dragged their service down!

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 16):
CSRs do have SOPs- but again, they pick their battles...

I really think soooo many problems could be avoided if more CSRs operated "by the book". Since so many of them are slack (don't enforce boarding zone/priority, lanes, etc), people act impudently at every boarding, which just makes things harder for those CSRs who DO enforce the rules. I can't tell how many times I've flown UA out of LGA and the CSR just lets anybody board at any time, to the intense ire of every elite on the plane. I can understand Europeans who are used to the mad crush/cattle call style of boarding ignoring the instructions and having to be corrected... but jeez. The rules are there for a reason -- to make things go quicker, and easier, for all involved.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 58, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

I will almost ALWAYS board with the very last group!  
My flights cost me almost nothing!  
As a non-rev, you either adapt or you take the subway.  



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4779 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 51):
One way or the other, these strollers will be there and will slow down departure. If parents don't pre-board, then everyone will wait inside the plane while rampers finish loading up all the strollers that have piled up during boarding.

While you might wait for things to get done upstairs, your rarely gonna wait for the ramp. Go time is go time and ramp is under heavy pressure to get things done ontime.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineZBA2CGX From Canada, joined Mar 2006, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4746 times:

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
Quoting VS4ever (Reply 50):
It's pretty easy to spot the difference between a 5 year old and a tween/teen for the most part

Yes, but what about the difference between a 5-year old and an 8-year old? One agent will not spot the difference, but the next one will and will refuse pre-boarding. Parents will react no differently than if the agent had just proposed that their offspring be roasted at the back of the engine, will demand all sorts of intervention from a supervisor, the police, their senator, Santa Claus, and will make themselves a massive nuisance holding up boarding for everyone else for 20 minutes.

They don't have to spot it, the computer has all the information right there. I believe that the date of birth is required when booking the tickets. It is fairly easy for the ticket machine to put a marker on the ticket so that it is flagged as family boarding. That way the agent can announce, those families that have "family' on it can board after First, GS, and the rest of the elites.

As for not selecting seats together and be at the mercy of the select seats at checkin. Since the reservation system knows all the ages of the ticketed passengers, it should be fairly easy to pack all the families together in the back of the plane. That way you get the families together, freeing up the seats in the front for more revenue and the families can pack there stuff into the overhead in the back.

I used to be ambivalent about it. But now that i have acquired a child, I think it is a nice perk for families.


User currently offlineDTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 812 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4689 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 55):
Because there isn't another plane in the next 5 minutes

Do you realize a plane does not leave until boarding is completed or if boarding is delayed by 5 minutes? You are talking as if a plane has doors that close automatically and leaves behind whoever is on the jetbridge!


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17786 posts, RR: 46
Reply 62, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

Quoting UALWN (Reply 56):
And I guess boarding right after a family with a 2-yr-old kid on a 10-hour flight to Europe just ruined your $10K vacation, like TOTALLY.

I like how Flyertalk hates everything UA does (or any airline, really), but they love this policy change. LOVE--almost to a person.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1950 posts, RR: 1
Reply 63, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4547 times:

Quoting nycdave (Reply 57):
I'm still having a hard time deciding who's angrier -- UA flyers who think CO has dragged their service down, or CO flyers who think UA has dragged their service down!

Not having a horse in this race during the merger, it's definitely the latter.


User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1733 posts, RR: 3
Reply 64, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4499 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 55):
Do you REALLY think he meant that?

Hard tellin' not knowin'. There have been plenty of outrageous things said on here already, and on other sites (like Flyertalk) by self-annointed individuals. But how dare someone else have their backsides in their seat before Mr. GS in 1B has had a sip of sparkling wine or OJ from those plastic cups.  
Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 61):
Do you realize a plane does not leave until boarding is completed or if boarding is delayed by 5 minutes? You are talking as if a plane has doors that close automatically and leaves behind whoever is on the jetbridge!

This is a good point as well.

I find it interesting that SQ and other airlines escort some of their elites out of the lounge and board them LAST. Don't here too many complaints about that.


User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 3
Reply 65, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

Quoting TX2FL (Reply 46):
As a gate agent and supervisor this was my biggest pet peeve. I don't know why the flight attendants onboard would never enforce it when they plainly saw passengers offending this one in the bin one under the seat policy.

I'm not aware of any written policy anywhere to this effect. It's a suggestion certainly but I don't know where it's written by any airline that you're required to put a bag under your seat if you have two.


User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1388 posts, RR: 9
Reply 66, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4346 times:

As the OP, I'm pleased with all these valuable comments. I think the WN policy, of which I was previously unaware, makes the most sense. I also think airlines are right to replace an announcement for "families with children," to "anyone needing special assistance," because then people can self-select. I bet a mom with two 10-year olds who would otherwise try to board early, is unlikely to want to volunteer herself as "needy" in front of 100+ other pax, when she probably isn't. A little social pressure goes a long way.

That said, special mention to the most bone-headed, borderline offensive, comment on this thread. Perhaps Prinair would rather the human race go extinct?

Quoting Prinair (Reply 42):
This is wonderful. All airlines should follow this trend. Your choice to reproduce should not entitle you to special treatment.

And thanks to NYCDave for the speaking the most truth. I wholeheartedly agree. CSRs need to enforce the rules, especially the "small" ones like boarding zones, because that emboldens the rule-breakers, who make it worse for everyone.

Quoting nycdave (Reply 57):
I really think soooo many problems could be avoided if more CSRs operated "by the book". Since so many of them are slack (don't enforce boarding zone/priority, lanes, etc), people act impudently at every boarding, which just makes things harder for those CSRs who DO enforce the rules. I can't tell how many times I've flown UA out of LGA and the CSR just lets anybody board at any time, to the intense ire of every elite on the plane. I can understand Europeans who are used to the mad crush/cattle call style of boarding ignoring the instructions and having to be corrected... but jeez. The rules are there for a reason -- to make things go quicker, and easier, for all involved.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 67, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4263 times:

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 61):
You are talking as if a plane has doors that close automatically and leaves behind whoever is on the jetbridge!

That WAS the comparison being made...very good!



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4183 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 55):
Because there isn't another plane in the next 5 minutes....Because it's easier to sit and/or get up from a seat on the subway.....Because aisles are wider in subways....Because you'll be on the subway for only about 45 minutes....Because the subway ride didn't cost $4,298.16 for you and your family.

Maybe, just maybe, buying 5 tickets cost me as much as your exclusive "throne-on-high" class ticket? But that's not the point, your fellow passengers are poeple, and deserve to be given courtesy and accomodation. If that doesn;t move you, then how about: it gets you on your way sooner.

I don't mean to single you out rwy04lga (you just happened to be the one who had an answer for my rhetorical question..), since there are many examples in this thread, and eslewhere.

Is it just me? whenever there is a thread where babies/childre/obese/ill/elderly or similar passengers are mentioned, there are those who proclaim that they are important and that those people (sorry to have to remind you, yes, PEOPLE) are ruining their entitlement. to... well, I'm not sure what.

Why is that attitude all over the aviation industry? maybe because it is fostered by airlines who chase business passengers with the promise exclusive and special treatment if you give them lots of $. People don't generally act like that elsewhere.

[Edited 2012-05-27 19:26:36]

User currently offlinewoodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1031 posts, RR: 2
Reply 69, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

As a single parent I have always tried hard to minimize the impact I have traveling with my son. I dont let him control what he brings, I limit him to just what he can carry himself. We never board early and he pretty much knows what is expected of him. I travel for business and pleasure and he is often in tow, so I guess he is likely more experienced that most kids are. What irks me the most are the train wrecks that are caused by families who dont plan ahead, bring too much stuff, dont choose seats in advance and then expect everyone else who has planned ahead to make way for their irresponsibility and lack of planning. We can argue all day about this and other family issues but there wont ever be agreement. That said, those of us who have kids who are well behaved and brought up to respect their parents will be the ones who have to put up with those who dont. Oh well, its the price we pay to travel.

User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2973 posts, RR: 13
Reply 70, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4117 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I am a 2.7 million mile flier on UA and GS, and I'm almost always an international flier with a $6/7000 ticket. Sometimes in First Class. When they announce boarding for families w children, service men and woman, disabled and First and Business Class and Global Services and 1k there is a mad crazed rush. I can have a ticket in my hand that says FIRST and GS very large and people with tickets with far less status than me PUSH their way in front of me as if getting on the plane is going to save their lives. I let them. What is the big deal? We will all get on the same plane to the same place. Also all boarding agents in every city (LHR THE WORST) call for the next tier of pax 3 minutes after they call for all the F,C,GS etc. I can't even make it to the red carpet in 3 minutes as there are 150 people crowded in front of me with these crazed Premiers pushing ahead and the gate agents let them on even if their not done boarding GS and First. So I wait for the maddness to calm down--then calmly board. Being first person on the plane is nice, but I'm not standing on the red carpet for 30 minutes to be in front. It's an airplane- not a Lady GaGa concert!

I found being GS has HUGE advantages- but you do get the evil eye when you are on the red carpet and they stop the others to let you cut ahead. If they only knew that my company pays United well over $60,000 bucks a year! And UA should treat me well because I can choose any airline I want! I don't really care when families with kids board- everyone is going nuts to get on board.



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinenycdave From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 71, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3947 times:

Quoting ZBA2CGX (Reply 60):
They don't have to spot it, the computer has all the information right there. I believe that the date of birth is required when booking the tickets. It is fairly easy for the ticket machine to put a marker on the ticket so that it is flagged as family boarding. That way the agent can announce, those families that have "family' on it can board after First, GS, and the rest of the elites.

Good idea -- and I'm wondering why the heck they don't do that already! Any ideas?


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 72, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3754 times:

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 68):
Maybe, just maybe, buying 5 tickets cost me as much as your exclusive "throne-on-high" class ticket? But that's not the point, your fellow passengers are poeple, and deserve to be given courtesy and accomodation. If that doesn;t move you, then how about: it gets you on your way sooner.

I don't mean to single you out rwy04lga

To be clear...I'm an employee...flying nonrev...paying nothing for my ticket...I can't rush to be first to board...the only throne I use has a flush handle. Many times I've been the LAST to board, having to check my one carryon as there was no room at the inn and hoping the closing door doesn't catch my heel. I was merely comparing the reasons people act differently at gate areas and subway platforms. You asked why people act the way they do when flying. I gave some reasonable answers to your rhetorical question.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1733 posts, RR: 3
Reply 73, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3726 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 70):

VC10er, you have a great attitude! I wish more elites and non-elites were like you, the boarding process would be so much more civilized and I know the CSRs would enjoy their jobs a little bit more and be more pleasant to deal with all around!

If you're at the gate on-time, BP in hand, the flight isn't going to leave without you- so relax!


User currently offlineDLD9S From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3725 times:

Quoting nycdave (Reply 71):
Good idea -- and I'm wondering why the heck they don't do that already! Any ideas?

Because it would discourage families from paying for pre-boarding. I think the ultimate goal is to maximize revenue on each flight... Giving families things like free seat assignments together and pre-boarding is giving away 2 things they currently charge for.



717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1950 posts, RR: 1
Reply 75, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days ago) and read 3717 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 70):

Here's how the boarding SHOULD happen:
Group 1: First/Biz
Group 2: All your elites
Group 3: Military/Econ +
Group 4: Families with kids UNDER 7!!!!
Group 5: Everyone else


User currently offlineairfrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2827 posts, RR: 42
Reply 76, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days ago) and read 3710 times:

As a 1k on UA, and Elite on DL, I find that traveling with my family, I pretty much have to do it on WN now, just to try and get four seats in reasonable proximity to each other.

The goal here is to maximize revenue. Business travelers have it. Families don't. That results in a number of policies - including eliminating reasonable pre-boarding and late releases of seats - that are very family unfriendly. The industry wonders why WN is well regarded by casual travelers, while the legacies are viewed in a mixture of horror and resignation, it's issues like this that result in that perception by casual travelers.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23225 posts, RR: 20
Reply 77, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days ago) and read 3661 times:

Quoting airfrnt (Reply 76):
The industry wonders why WN is well regarded by casual travelers, while the legacies are viewed in a mixture of horror and resignation, it's issues like this that result in that perception by casual travelers.

. . . and yet WN also makes it easier than any other carrier for business travelers to "transfer" their benefits to a spouse. No one else has something like companion pass, which because of its nature almost has to be used with the family on leisure trips.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4127 posts, RR: 2
Reply 78, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3542 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 52):
Why would a roadwarrior wanna be early onto a plane?

Because overhead space in narrowbodies on domestic flights in the US is a very scarce commodity. Board last and the chances there won't be any left are high, especially toward the front of the aircraft where most roadwarriors are found.

Quoting ZBA2CGX (Reply 60):
I believe that the date of birth is required when booking the tickets.

I believe that information is collected for the purpose of completing security checks. I for one am in favor of a firewall between levels of information. Airlines should have access to that kind of information only for the briefest moment that it takes to decide I am not going to blow the plane up in the air. I see no commercial reason to give them my date of birth.

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 64):
I find it interesting that SQ and other airlines escort some of their elites out of the lounge and board them LAST.

SQ also operates only widebodies. The problems with finding overhead space as I described above are simply non-existent on most widebody flights. I would willingly board last on a UA 777, confident in the knowledge I can (almost) always put my stuff above my seat. Not so on a A320!

Quoting VC10er (Reply 70):
If they only knew that my company pays United well over $60,000 bucks a year!

Some of them would roll their eyes. It's chump change... Did you forget a 0?

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 64):
But how dare someone else have their backsides in their seat before Mr. GS in 1B has had a sip of sparkling wine or OJ from those plastic cups.

Frankly, with the amount of flying I do on UA, I should be entitled to real champagne in a flute, and they ought to wait until I am damn well and ready before letting the plebs onboard.
  



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4127 posts, RR: 2
Reply 79, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3512 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ZBA2CGX (Reply 60):
it should be fairly easy to pack all the families together in the back of the plane.

Sort of kinda like a smoking section, minus the smoke. The smoking section was voluntary. If you didn't feel the need to smoke on your trip, you could sit wherever you wanted.

Will this section be voluntary too? Smokers had an incentive to sit in the smoking section. What is the incentive for families? In my experience, the most disturbing families in air seem to think their offspring is the cream of the crop and everyone else is the problem, so why would they want to sit in the back with the other scrum to begin with?

Make it mandatory and it brings on its own set of challenges.

Should airlines stop allocating seats at booking (except for their most loyal customers - here's a new perk) so they can wait until they know how many families they have to make sure they are all in the back, or should they just rope off a block of seats in the reservation system only for families? What happens if the section is too small then? Or if it is too large?

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 66):
I bet a mom with two 10-year olds who would otherwise try to board early, is unlikely to want to volunteer herself as "needy" in front of 100+ other pax, when she probably isn't. A little social pressure goes a long way.

I love the idea. Someone would have to come up with the right announcement and it would have to be mandatory reading, word for word, at the gate, much like an onboard security briefing, otherwise it will not be as effective.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 75):
Group 1: First/Biz
Group 2: All your elites

And thus began the next civil war...
Go tell a tier one or two elite who flies once a week on a discounted rate (you know, the people most active on flyertalk) that they should come second to the non-elite dude in first who shelled out big money for his once-a-year trip... Just be ready to run when the forks come out.

There's pretty much a universal agreement that top tier elites (1K and GS on UA) should board in group 1, or whenever they please, but when it comes to group 2, every constituency believes that it should be them...

[Edited 2012-05-28 10:19:22]


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23225 posts, RR: 20
Reply 80, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 78):
Because overhead space in narrowbodies on domestic flights in the US is a very scarce commodity. Board last and the chances there won't be any left are high, especially toward the front of the aircraft where most roadwarriors are found.

True, but that's really not a function of when children or families board. It's difficult or impossible to board a flight in the first half of passengers to board or so and not find overhead space reasonably close to one's seat. There aren't many flights that have so many children that take up so much bin space that families appreciably change the point during the boarding process when bins fill up.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1950 posts, RR: 1
Reply 81, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3370 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 79):
Go tell a tier one or two elite who flies once a week on a discounted rate (you know, the people most active on flyertalk) that they should come second to the non-elite dude in first who shelled out big money for his once-a-year trip... Just be ready to run when the forks come out.

So?
If they're not parked up front, then they can wait til those people get on board. Then it's their turn. Don't like it? Fly WN!


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2964 times:

I can see the calculation. High loads have made earlier boarding more important, particularly to get scarce bin space. Passengers that pay more fly regularly are allowed to board earlier. Most families with small children are Kettles. If they were not Kettles, the family could board along with the passenger in the group with the highest priority.

The Kettles were getting something for free with early boarding, to the annoyance of Mileage Plus elites, so UA ended it. The no status families do not have much value to UA, so why give them anything? If you know what you are doing, it is not that difficult to board with small children.


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2520 posts, RR: 2
Reply 83, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2899 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 49):
Sadly. I understand this. To be honest, as a parent with two small kids, we have utilized the pre-boarding. I felt like I was 'cheating' getting the pre-boarding. But it helped.

No doubt. I wonder how many of the detractors on this thread actually have children.

There are so many moronic, elitist comments associated with this thread, I just don't know where to begin and probably won't find a good place to end. I also have two children and can attest to the benefit of a pre-board - while UA probably won't lose many (regular) customers as a direct result of its policy shift, it's not going to endear itself to many families.

The suggestion that there ought to be a "family" or "children's" section at the rear of an aircraft is quite possibly one of the most ridiculous propositions I've ever heard, and this is not the first thread within which such ideas have been propagated. Seems the majority of the anti-family crowd assumes that children are little more than fiendish dervishes who are utterly incapable of doing anything but spreading misery. Give my kids an iPad loaded with a handful of apps and a couple of movies and chances are you won't even know they're on board and yes, that goes for ORD-HNL nonstop segments.

I suppose that many of the single, unaffiliated, or otherwise anti-children elite fliers who believe they ought to board before everyone including God Himself (but particularly children) are also opposed to pre-boarding for elderly/disabled fliers. Heaven forbid that military members catch a break, too; it's clearly their fault that they don't have elite status and doubly their fault since their "employer" is paying for their ticket. I wonder how some of the more active detractors would deal with a GS/1K wounded military member traveling with his/her family (children included) who pre-boards; would you freak out because they pre=boarded with kids, because they're a military member, or would everything be peachy because they have elite status like you?!

Give it all a rest - you're going to get your pre-departure cup of OJ, will have plenty of time to have the FAs hang your suit jacket, and don't worry, nobody in the back of the place is going to grab "your" front of the plane overhead bin space (to store your giant rollerboard and briefcase so as to preserve all 38" of domestic F legroom)! While you're fuming about being second on board, I'm hooking buckling my kids in, firing up the iPad, and lining up their snacks and drinks so as to keep them quiet and content, lest they "disturb" you (and prompt me to intervene). Full hyperbole intended.

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently onlineAngMoh From Singapore, joined Nov 2011, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2856 times:

Quoting 777fan (Reply 83):
No doubt. I wonder how many of the detractors on this thread actually have children.

There are so many moronic, elitist comments associated with this thread, I just don't know where to begin and probably won't find a good place to end. I also have two children and can attest to the benefit of a pre-board - while UA probably won't lose many (regular) customers as a direct result of its policy shift, it's not going to endear itself to many families.

           


Try traveling with small kids. On a bad day, it is one of the most stressful experiences you can go to. So before you complain about screaming babies, they are not machines which you can turn off with a switch. I don't like screaming kids either, but having gone through this myself as a parent, I won't dare to complain because in 99.9% of the cases, the parents do everything they can to keep kids quiet but it is just not always successful.

Just because you are an FF with high status does not mean you are a better person than anyone else... (btw: I have a high level status myself and expect priority treatment where reasonable, but that does not mean at the expense of others)


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3433 posts, RR: 6
Reply 85, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2727 times:

Quoting traindoc (Reply 26):
The problem now with air travel is that people want to pay Walmart prices, but want Nieman Marcus service. And yes, the coach pax will indeed fill up the first class bins if they board first.

   The senses of entitlement some customers displayed when I worked at Spirit simply boggled the mind. They were paying $9 fares and simply outraged that the ticket only included the seat. You get what you pay for. (that being said, I never used that as a justification for being rude to customers—$9 or $999, they were still paying my salary)

Passengers will also board and toss their carry-ons into the first empty bin they see, never mind the fact that they're sitting all the way at the back of the plane. I wouldn't mind seeing other airlines adopt carry-on fees just to get rid of this hassle and speed up boarding. When someone pays a Spirit carry-on fee, they're guaranteed overhead space.

Quoting Prinair (Reply 42):
Now, if the airlines could get rid of the WCHR service.... I've noticed over the years that most people request the service out of pure laziness...

Unfortunately, I've seen plenty of passengers abuse the wheelchair service, and stories here abound of "miracle" flights where 5 or 10 people request wheelchair service so they can board first, but when the airplane arrives and they're told they have to wait until everyone else finishes getting off, they can all suddenly walk (and sometimes sprint) off the plane.

I don't think eliminating it is the right idea, nor should we start requiring that customers show proof of disability, just because it would mean a lot of additional work for the agents and I doubt people who need wheelchairs carry medical documentation with them—would this even be legal under the ADA?

Ultimately, there are people who'll take advantage of anything the airline offers, and we shouldn't punish those who really need the service.

Quoting VS4ever (Reply 50):
2. If the problem is families taking the bleep so to speak and boarding with Kevin 17 and Louise 14, and not with Lauren 2 and Leo 3, then perhaps the answer is rather than ruin it for those who DO need it, just change the policy and say children under say 5. It's pretty easy to spot the difference between a 5 year old and a tween/teen for the most part, so as long as it's announced at the gate and enforced (here's that word again) "CONSISTENTLY", again, coupled with #1, our elite friends should not be inconvienced too much

   At Spirit, the policy is families with children under 2 board in Zone 2 (Zone 1 is exclusively for customers who have paid for carry-on bags). If I can have a conversation with your child, your child is too old to merit pre-boarding.

Quoting VS4ever (Reply 50):
What ticks me off and I think others too, is the case of the families booking all the separate seats because they didn't plan properly or work with the airline to get it right and then expect everyone else to move for their sake. Um No. I buy the seat I want, I want to sit in it for that reason. I am not saying I wouldn't be cordial and friendly, but the entitlement crap gets on my nerves.

   This doesn't really apply, but I once had a family of eight pre-purchase assigned seats. None of the kids were over 15, and the parents chose to sit them in the entire exit row. When the flight attendants tried to move them, they threw a fit, yelling over and over again that they had paid for the seats and their kids had a "right" to sit there... (never mind the fact that they clearly didn't read the exit seat requirements when purchasing their seats)

Quoting DLD9S (Reply 54):
Charles Schumer has asked airlines to let families with small children to sit together without having to pay extra fees:

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/s...100/1

   Dear God, no. Have families get to the airport a few hours earlier like the rest of us who don't want to pay for seat assignments. I never have trouble finding seats next to my traveling companions. This isn't something that requires Congressional intervention, especially not when Congress has much bigger fish to fry.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 65):
I'm not aware of any written policy anywhere to this effect. It's a suggestion certainly but I don't know where it's written by any airline that you're required to put a bag under your seat if you have two.

At Spirit, it wasn't, and customers are free to place their items wherever they want once they're on the plane, but if someone who paid for a carry-on can't find room, flight attendants will instruct passengers to remove their personal items from the overhead. I've never seen them have to gate-check a carry-on.


User currently onlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13451 posts, RR: 100
Reply 86, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2699 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting 777fan (Reply 83):
There are so many moronic, elitist comments associated with this thread,

It makes me appreciate B6, F9, WN, and Westjet even more.

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 66):
I also think airlines are right to replace an announcement for "families with children," to "anyone needing special assistance," because then people can self-select.

That is a fair statement. I have no issue with children 7 and under. Heck, do it as some places do now, by height instead of age. "Families with children under 48 inches tall or those needing special assistance may now board."

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 75):
Here's how the boarding SHOULD happen:
Group 1: First/Biz
Group 2: All your elites
Group 3: Military/Econ
Group 4: Families with kids UNDER 7!!!!
Group 5: Everyone else

First of all, that has too many groups and too few people per group; it would add too much time to the boarding process as the last group would be over half the plane! Also, as a last minute economy purchaser who isn't elite, I'm not giving my business to that airline. (What are you doing for that customer?) This is a strategy based on preference and not yield management. It is also for an airline with slow turn times.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 83):
While you're fuming about being second on board, I'm hooking buckling my kids in, firing up the iPad, and lining up their snacks and drinks so as to keep them quiet and content, lest they "disturb" you (and prompt me to intervene). Full hyperbole intended.

  

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 84):
I have a high level status myself and expect priority treatment where reasonable, but that does not mean at the expense of others

Good to hear.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 83):
Give it all a rest - you're going to get your pre-departure cup of OJ

I wonder how many want their booze...

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinePurdueAv2003 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 251 posts, RR: 2
Reply 87, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2635 times:

Quoting 777fan (Reply 83):

        


Both of my daughters have been flying since they were only a few months old. I'm not the one that packs everything and the kitchen sink, but when you are traveling with infants, you WILL have extra carry-ons (diaper bag and infant seat, at least). I look at the preboarding of families with small children as a courtesy to the other passengers, rather than a privilege for me. I don't particular want to worry about giving somebody in an aisle seat a head contusion while I'm struggling down the aisle with a baby in one arm, a diaper bag over my shoulder, a car seat in the other hand, and trying to keep my older daughter calm (she loves to be on airplanes!) while making our way to our seats.



Ptu = Ftu X Anet (not to be confused with a.net)
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4127 posts, RR: 2
Reply 88, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2578 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 86):
First of all, that has too many groups and too few people per group

And yet it is very close to the official UA boarding policy (at least the last I saw - may have changed twice since)
#1 - Customers with disabilities
#2 - Global Services and military personnel in uniform
#3 - 1K, First and BusinessFirst
#4 - Mileage Plus Platinum/Gold and Star Gold
#5 - Mileage Plus Silver, Star Silver and some credit card holders
#6 - Some other credit card holders (with a lower annual fee and less benefits evidently)
#7 - Families with children not included above (this is what has been discontinued)
#8, #9 and #10 - Everyone else depending on which row they're in.

The numbering is mine. What I call #3, UA calls Group 1, what comes before is "Pre-Boarding," and what I call #7 is also "Pre-Boarding." Confused yet?

In the real world, however, #7 often took place with #1. I suppose that is what angered certain elites who are "entitled" to board ahead of #7 and led to UA's change of policy since it couldn't get it consistently applied across its network.

As far as I'm concerned, I board with #3 if it is a domestic narrowbody flight, and with #8, #9 or #10 if it isn't...

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 86):
This is a strategy based on preference and not yield management.

This is a strategy intended to reward status, which itself rewards volume of travel over revenue (except for GS).

Quoting 777fan (Reply 83):
The suggestion that there ought to be a "family" or "children's" section at the rear of an aircraft is quite possibly one of the most ridiculous propositions I've ever heard

I think it's a bad idea from a logistical standpoint, but why do you think it is so ridiculous?

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 81):
Don't like it? Fly WN!

Well, some are apparently going to AA, to the consternation of their loyal elites, and a few are already heading back... I guess life at UA isn't so miserable after all.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 80):
True, but that's really not a function of when children or families board.

I don't disagree at all. I was replying to a previous poster asking why road warriors were in such a rush to board first.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 84):
I have a high level status myself and expect priority treatment where reasonable, but that does not mean at the expense of others

The very definition of priority is to go ahead of other people equally situated, ergo at their expense... You win, they lose, whether the race is who gets onboard first, who gets the last seat, who can upgrade, etc...



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinerlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1097 posts, RR: 1
Reply 89, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2571 times:

We travelled with two small kids for years. I would never think of going with an airline that did not let us board first. We have our carryons and two car seats and the two kids. We need time to get all of that setteled and be out of the way for the rush. The elites can go left and we go right. No problem.

They are now 5 and 9 so now it does not matter.



I can drive faster than you
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2520 posts, RR: 2
Reply 90, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 88):

Quoting 777fan (Reply 83):
The suggestion that there ought to be a "family" or "children's" section at the rear of an aircraft is quite possibly one of the most ridiculous propositions I've ever heard

I think it's a bad idea from a logistical standpoint, but why do you think it is so ridiculous?

Well, for starters, in the case of UA, you'd effectively be banning families traveling with children from sitting in the E+ section, which would equate to a potential loss of revenue. I can only imagine FAs getting on the PA upon landing and asking some 30+ rows of Y pax to remain seated while the three families assigned to the seats in the back attempts to de-plane in order to make a tight connection to, say, MCO. You'd also run the risk of pissing off a number of prospective passengers who book last minute and have little choice but to book a seat in the "family section" and/or are deprived of a window/aisle seat.

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3659 posts, RR: 3
Reply 91, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2517 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 7):
The policy allowing small children additional time to board was intended to give parents additional time hauling car seats, strollers, etc. onto the aircraft and getting their child strapped into their seat. It was never intended to allow mom & dad to bring their elementary school-aged children on board, place their belonging (that would comfortably fit into half an overhead bin) into multiple bins -- and attempt to defend them from others use -- and let their kids run wild until it's time to depart. Worse, you're see an increasing number of tweens and teens included as "small children."

If you're traveling with an infant, special needs child or carrying strollers/etc. and you let the gate agent know you require additional time to board, I'm certain they'll be happy to oblige. But if you think you can use 12-year-old Tanner as an excuse to board early...

I have seen this a few times on holiday flights particularly on LGW - MCO where the entire extended family preboards on the strength of little Courtney. Mum, Dad, 3 siblings, 2 grandparents, an aunt and uncle and a couple of cousins. This is plainly an abuse of preboarding but how do you cure it, UA's answer is to withdraw the service, the alternative is to set stronger conditions and enforce them at the gate with the potential for ugly scenes as a result. Not an easy decision to make.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 85):
Quoting Prinair (Reply 42):Now, if the airlines could get rid of the WCHR service.... I've noticed over the years that most people request the service out of pure laziness...Unfortunately, I've seen plenty of passengers abuse the wheelchair service, and stories here abound of "miracle" flights where 5 or 10 people request wheelchair service so they can board first, but when the airplane arrives and they're told they have to wait until everyone else finishes getting off, they can all suddenly walk (and sometimes sprint) off the plane.

This one I did see effectively dealt with years back on Air UK. A miserable old bag was wheeled on to the plane at Copenhagen, and then proceeded to whinge about everything on the flight to STN. On arrival she leapt to her feet, only to be firmly told by the nearest stewardess to sit down and await her wheelchair which would arrive when everyone else had disembarked. Last seen being wheeled through the baggage hall treating her pusher like a slave, so the wait did nothing for her manners.


User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 92, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2332 times:

In my time working on the gates I saw this 'parents with children first' policy abused.

I'm guessing here that if parents were asked to board last for their own convenience, ie: they can stroll down in their own time, they wouldn't want it.


User currently offlineN505FX From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 5):
Maybe it's time for a "Family Zone" at the rear of the plane that boards after F and C. Then families and their children head to the back, then the middle of the aircraft boards.

AMEN - more efficient and keeps the screaming brats away from the front cabin, where I have paid a lot of money for peace and quiet or the ability to get work done without tantrums and flying Cheerios!


User currently offlineaaexecplat From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 636 posts, RR: 4
Reply 94, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2251 times:

As always, the UA 1ks and GS members prove yet again that they are indeed the most elitist and over-entitled fliers in today's skies (not meant as a joke or in light of Rainey's comments). As a UA Plat myself, I can only attest to the Texas sized superiority complex of UA 1k and GS and I am frankly very tired of it. I have debated this very topic on FT ad nauseam so I will not go through it again.

That said, good luck to all you 1ks and GS members, and may you never get old, ill, or handicapped while no longer on the company dime...or God forbid...have kids.

You know what "they" say about Karma...


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