Plainplane From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 845 posts, RR: 1 Posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 39394 times:
CNN is reporting that Air Canada flight 1, a 777, made an emergency landing back in Toronto after an engine failure. There are reports that debris from the engine has smashed into the ground causing damage to cars and buildings and an investigation has been launched.
JAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3536 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 37733 times:
The top piece in the photo from the CP24 website looks like a turbine blade from one of the lower stages of the engine. The bluish tinge leads me to believe it was in a high-temp area, much like the internal combustion stages.
Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 37577 times:
Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 8): The top piece in the photo from the CP24 website looks like a turbine blade from one of the lower stages of the engine. The bluish tinge leads me to believe it was in a high-temp area, much like the internal combustion stages.
My initial impression was a turbine blade or blades, likely from the HP turbine, got shed and exited the back end. GE90s I believe have passed the goose test.
virgin747 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 37537 times:
I guess the question is how long is AC going to be down an Airplane (not to mention a valuable one) till GE can come down and scratch their heads, then finally decide on sending down a new engine to put on. Then do the actual act of replacing said engine. From experience, I can tell you being down an airplane like that is a pain in the you know what...
B757forever From United States of America, joined May 2010, 401 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 37204 times:
Quoting par13del (Reply 12): To us non-techies, uncontained failure does that mean not contained within the engine or a puncture of the fuselage?
My understanding has always been that an uncontained failure would describe a situation in which parts exited the engine by puncturing through the engine case or containment ring. True uncontained failures are rare. I suspect when the analysis is done, this AC incident will be declared a contained failure, as the parts most likely exited the tailpipe.
ANM604 From Canada, joined Feb 2012, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 37145 times:
Great work by the flight crew bringing her back in one piece!
Quoting virgin747 (Reply 11): I guess the question is how long is AC going to be down an Airplane (not to mention a valuable one)
This is about the worst thing that could happen to AC right now, the entire fleet but especially the 777's are running to the wall as it is. This is probably going to have a ripple effect down the line, and depending on how long it's out for there might be some immediate down gauges on some flights. Fingers crossed it is just the engine, and GE/AC can get a new one in ASAP. Thankfully they got it back to YYZ, and not some small airport elsewhere.
Quoting par13del (Reply 12): Uncontained failure does that mean not contained within the engine or a puncture of the fuselage?
It means that pieces have exited the engines, but it does not necessarily mean the fuselage/wings have been punctured by the expelled debris.
kl692 From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 37046 times:
Quoting YOWVIEWER (Reply 15): Just curious, a Toronto to Narita 777 would have a full fuel load on board and this occurred just after takeoff . How would they get it back down on the ground so quickly without blowing some tires ?
They did a fuel dump, the A/C must have return after an hour or so.
traindoc From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 36902 times:
Great video in real time! Quite an entourage of emergency vehicles close behind as the A/C taxis to the terminal. Both engine nacelles look intact which favors a contained failure. But we need to see the engines and fuselage close up before coming to a more definitive conclusion.
This is not the first 777 to have engine failure on/after take off. Several years ago, CO 9, EWR to NRT had an engine failure on take off and had to do an emergency return. This was a contained failure.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13152 posts, RR: 100
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 36848 times:
Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 8): The bluish tinge leads me to believe it was in a high-temp area, much like the internal combustion stages.
Quoting B757forever (Reply 14): My understanding has always been that an uncontained failure would describe a situation in which parts exited the engine by puncturing through the engine case or containment ring.
Any parts that go out the nozzles are a 'contained failure.'
Quoting virgin747 (Reply 11): I guess the question is how long is AC going to be down an Airplane (not to mention a valuable one) till GE can come down and scratch their heads, then finally decide on sending down a new engine to put on.
I doubt there will be a delay. The engine should already be on its way (if not half way to on the wing) with a new nacelle. The will need to pull fuel filters and sample aircraft fuel. The rest will be pulled and inspected off aircraft. The issue is the holiday weekend. Unless aircraft structure was damaged, the aircraft should fly within a week. The engine? It will be torn apart and studied in detail for a long time. Someone owes AC a new engine... even if its AC itself.
Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 36334 times:
Of course one has to wonder how this major failure happened. Could bird ingestion be a factor or is this some mx or original part flaw that was missed? I also wonder if their is some flaw in this GE engine series as there has been several major engine failures of them used on 777's.
Just be glad no one was injured or killed, just some replaceable damage, most likely covered by insurance.
krisyyz From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 36084 times:
Quoting ANM604 (Reply 16): This is about the worst thing that could happen to AC right now, the entire fleet but especially the 777's are running to the wall as it is. This is probably going to have a ripple effect down the line, and depending on how long it's out for there might be some immediate down gauges on some flights. Fingers crossed it is just the engine, and GE/AC can get a new one in ASAP. Thankfully they got it back to YYZ, and not some small airport elsewhere.
If not a single 777 is available and C-FITW is non-operational for an extended period, does AC have any 763s to take over 001 for a while? Or would they rather pull a 777 from somewhere else? YYZ-NRT was operated by a 763 prior to the T7s, no?
Call off the TSB, I think the CP24 reporter at the scene has solved the cause of the incident. After picking up and smelling one of the pieces that fell from the aircraft, she commented that "it smells like gasoline". Of course we know that that will likely cause less than optimal performance on most GE90 engines.
Mind you, the pieces did land in and around a PetroCan gas station, so maybe that has something to do with it. It couldn't possibly be that our intrepid reporter doesn't know the difference between the smells of gasoline, kerosene smells or any one of the combustible fluids in aircraft engines.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
: How many big GE90 failures have occurred in the past? Any on the GE90-110 that the B777-200LR/-300ER use?
: AC had 2 77Ws divert to Alaska on flights to Asia (one to Fairbanks in 2008 and one to Anchorage in 2009). Both required an engine change and the eng
: Based on previous AC experience with T7engine failures (2) 1-2 weeks will likely be the service outage for this a/c. I'd err towards a shorter time s
: If it's really dire, there is always the short term ACMI solution, which several carriers would be happy to provide, though likely only Atlas or Omni
: Did they also have to truck in equipment needed to change the engine? I can't imagine you can simply hang a GE-90 engine from a chain and drop it int
: Thank you. However, due to the holiday weekend (many Americans take this week off from work), I think the issue will be getting people out to inspect
: A/C 733 is currently under going a #2 engine change. Looks like the LPT let go and there is quite a bit of damage. Aircraft will most likely be out of
: I'm not familiar with ACs 777 ops... what is going on to cause the fleet to be running thin?
: What are you talking about? The aircraft landed safely with no injuries. If AC were picking bits of airframe out of a carpark I would agree with you
: At the moment, no not really. 767 fleet is down a frame from last year, and flying has slightly increased. At this point though, 763's are about the
: Does this have any effect on AC's ETOPs rating for their 777's?
: Err, if you had read the next part of the sentence, and the quote, it probably would have become evident what I was talking about. In case it still d
: Not to nit pick, but it looks like you've shown a compressor in your photo. Granted, most people would see a liberated blade (or blades) and be unlik
: I am usually near the fence taking pics, but due to the intense heat today was under the shade of the trees across the road. Here is a video I took, s
: I don't mean to sound like a noob, but how could you tell that it was a compressor and not a turbine blade?
: See the flightaware map. It says it returned in 51 minutes.
: Doesn't seem to be any nacelle damage, so everything went out the tube, I suppose. They simply don't have enough of them. AC have traditionally been
: http://www.cp24.com/tl/photo.html?pn...20on%20Monday,%20May%2028,%202012. Seeing this photo, it's normal that those parts are that 'rusted' or burnt?
: "It was hot and it smells like gasoline". Well, probably something you should touch with your bare hands and sniff then, isn't it?
: Oh blessed mercy, it's WONDERFUL to see that our brethren to the north have such staunch, eagle-eyed (and nosed, it appears) reporters presenting us
: http://www.airliners.net/photo/1134244/L/ This is what it probably looked like, quite concerning that this is still happening years later!
: Wasn't it a MH 777 taking off from ZRH a few years ago,too? I remember a picture of the engine spewing parts out of it.
: Someone posted on youtube about the A/C being back in service already "The aircraft was repaired and is now flying Sydney to Hong kong and now one was
: I'd say incorrect, It would be a decent haul to replace that and have the transport Canada board do their investigations (limited) in that amount of t
: But they are all Trent engines. But if it was a simple engine failure, and at a main base with an engine and guys available, then it could be ready b
: Firstly, in the incident pic you linked, the engine was not a GE-90 but a RR Trent 800. Secondly, the MH incident had nothing to do with the RR engin
: Correct. There was some collateral damage to the jet pipe, but it was caused by the failure of the Boeing D Duct. And on the MH D Duct., I called out
: Looking at the Avherald website it seems that the a/c involved is C-FITW.... it's quite funny to note that, excluding the last letter, this is definit
: Any how for those that haven't seen any pic yet, Here is one I snap as I was busy recording .