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Would UA At ISP Be Feasible?  
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4033 times:

With UA serving small airports like CHO and ABE from IAD, would something like ISP-IAD be feasible? I'm thinking it would be similar to WN flying ISP-BWI.

As far as proximity to EWR (the UA hub), ISP is closer to EWR than ABE is to EWR but not by that much, and both are between 60-80 miles from EWR. A driving distance, but a far driving distance away.

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJBfan1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3990 times:

From what I have been reading in the news lately, WN has been reducing their flight schedule out of ISP..... Also B6 was considering a move to ISP and then pulled out due to not enough accomodations as well as the airport not willing to share the expense of updating the facilities.....with that being said I personally think it would not be a good move on their part to do so especially with their strong presence at EWR......That is just my opinion...

User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3811 times:

The presence at EWR should not be that much of a deterrent to making ISP a spoke to the IAD hub. There are places that UA flies from IAD that they don't from EWR. It would mostly depend on how UA sees the ISP market as it stands alone. It would also be RJs like UA flies between JFK and IAD.


135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlinewrldtvlr From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3723 times:

I recall in 1992 flying on CO from ISP-EWR-MAD. ISP-EWR was a regularly scheduled feeder route to their longhaul routes out of EWR. Fun flight.

With WN drawing back I think AA or UA should restart their ISP-ORD flights. Business travelers out here would welcome the opportunity to connect from ISP rather than schlep into JFK or LGA. Hell, a couple ISP-DFW or ISP-IAH flights wouldn't go unnoticed by us 'east enders'.


User currently offlineflyer62 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3641 times:

United has never been one to keep mainline is smaller to midsize markets to long my city PWM and 727-100/200 and 737-200 and 300 ,this was back in the 90s then with a blink of an eye it was changed to United Express,which dont count,this was back in the regional jet craze
now the CRJ-700 is not bad,and better that the crj 100/200 still its not United or mainline,and those E-135-E-145s and crj-100 0r 200 need to be removed from airline line service and sent to the scrap heap or sold to be converted into business jets,I call them junk jets and the mainline carriers need to get rid of them,I will not fly on them ever again,would talk a q-400 over any of the barbie jets,now the E-175,E-190.195 is a whole different ball game
,flew themand love them and the airlines needto focuson mor emaine line with A-319,A30/321s and boeing more 737s 70 800 and 900s lets bring flying and service back to where it should be


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16861 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3450 times:

Quote:
I recall in 1992 flying on CO from ISP-EWR-MAD. ISP-EWR was a regularly scheduled feeder route to their longhaul routes out of EWR. Fun flight.

EWR-ISP was 5x daily ATR-42, it was ended about ten years ago. ISP-IAD with DH8-200/300s seems doable, as does ISP-ORD with ERJs.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2882 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3259 times:

Quoting JBfan1 (Reply 1):
Also B6 was considering a move to ISP and then pulled out due to not enough accomodations as well as the airport not willing to share the expense of updating the facilities.....

B6, based on my knowledge, was never really interested in ISP but good old Uncle Chuck Schumer was being very vocal about pushing them into ISP. I, on more than one occasion (and please remember that I am LIer born and raised and currently reside in Suffolk Co.), have told Uncle Chuck and our leadership that ISP would not be a good idea for various reasons unless we did something really different out of there.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
EWR-ISP was 5x daily ATR-42

Wooooooooooow, that is a blast from the past. I remember that!! IIRC, didn't they have a run to CLE too?



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineGolfBravoRomeo From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3196 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
EWR-ISP was 5x daily ATR-42, it was ended about ten years ago.

Do you recall the aircrafts type and years of CO's HPN-EWR service? I never saw how that could work, but I agree ISP-IAD should work.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16861 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3143 times:

Quoting GolfBravoRomeo (Reply 7):
Do you recall the aircrafts type and years of CO's HPN-EWR service?

ER3, lasted only a couple years. Also EWR-ACY was 5x daily ATR-42 for a long time, that too ended about 8-10 years ago. Right now for EWR AVP is the shortest route, about 93 miles (4x daily DH-8-200).



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):

I'd like to see EWR-ACY added back. Surprised that isn't even a seasonal market to connect to Europe.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9611 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

The basic principle is that O/D is always higher yielding than connecting traffic. US already serves DCA-ISP, which would take the O/D traffic for those going to DC from Long Island who don’t want to drive or take a train via NYC. O/D to IAD would be much lower.

They would then be competing for connecting traffic on top of having a hub not that far away. That means that either fares or local cachement would be what generated traffic. The most significant market out of that area is Florida since it is mostly leisure travel. Southwest already has that market cornered with nonstop service. Chicago is another option, but again Southwest is already in the market.

In general going for connecting traffic from a leisure destination is hard to make money with. Long Island has a huge population, but the plethora of nonstop competition from JFK & LGA makes it a hard market. I would think they would be able to fill the planes, but I doubt it would be profitable.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16861 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3087 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 9):
I'd like to see EWR-ACY added back. Surprised that isn't even a seasonal market to connect to Europe.



Me too, even though I live closer to EWR I would drive and park at ACY and connect to a flight at EWR. The parking rate in ACY's parking garage is half of what it is at EWR's long term lots. The Governor is making a big push to remake Atlantic City, first the State took over the tourist areas from the City, then they loaned the money to finish Revel (which is really nice), and now they're in the midst of a huge marketing push. Perhaps they would get the SJTA to offer some incentives for new airline service at ACY, NK is booming but there are plenty of markets they don't fly to that could use ACY service. For example ACY-EWR, plenty of Onepass/Mileage plus members in Monmouth, Ocean, Mercer and Burlington counties whom would use ACY in a second.

4x daily Q300s or something similar.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineA318 From Bahamas, joined Jan 2008, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2815 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 10):
US already serves DCA-ISP

When did this service start?



Welcome aboard!
User currently offlinemjzair From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

Quoting A318 (Reply 12):

Mid March with the first phase of the LGA/DCA slot transaction


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2719 times:

Quoting mjzair (Reply 13):

As I recall, this service began mid-January


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5222 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

AA and UA cut back on smaller cities in the Northeast, such as Islip, Manchester, NH, and Providence, because WN started service as alternatives to BOS and LGA/JFK/EWR. Now that WN goes into BOS, LGA, and EWR and is reducing service to the alternative airports, it would be interesting to see of the legacies rethink their service plans.

User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2499 times:

I think the value of ewr slots now makes the acy or isp type routes no longer worth it.

[Edited 2012-05-30 22:40:18]

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3197 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

Would this be a return to ISP for UA, or a completely new destination?


AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16861 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2400 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 16):
I think the value of ewr slots now makes the acy or isp type routes no longer worth it.

But AVP, PHL and ITH are worth the slots?



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5073 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day ago) and read 2370 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 17):


Would this be a return to ISP for UA, or a completely new destination?

UAEX flew IAD-ISP for years in the Atlantic Coast days so this would be a return. Not sure if UA flew ORD-ISP but AA certainly did. Given UA's relative weakness at JFK, ISP to both IAD and ORD wouldn't seem like too much of a stretch, especially with WN dropping MDW-ISP.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

Suffolk Co. is listed with 1.4M residents, that is more than Richmond MSA, and it's said to have a high median income. The eastern part of Nassau County appears equidistant to JFK/LGA as it is to ISP, but most if not all areas of Suffolk Co. are closer to ISP. The western side of Suffolk Co. is just at 1 hour from LGA/JFK, but more in distance to EWR.

a. Is that county predominately suburban/exurban, or developed enough with businesses: mid-size and large, that are located there that might warrant traffic into that region from companies based in Chicago or DC/ No. VA?

From what I know, the eastern portion is frequented by very affluent families, but is that area diverse socio-economically?

b. How popular is the area in terms of bringing in tourist activity relative to other places - is it like areas in Maine or less popular, more exclusive?
c. Anything from a demographic perspective, or airport perspective (other than LGA/JFK/EWR in proximity) that might be hindering more service at ISP?

[Edited 2012-05-31 10:19:08]

User currently offlineart at isp From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 181 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 2227 times:

ISP-DCA was started on or about March 27th, as part of the slot swap. I am not sure of the numbers, but with rare exceptions it is as or more expensive than the shuttle from LGA.

What really hurts ISP is the limited selection of airlines to hubs. DCA is a step in the right direction but more choice is needed. With WN canning MDW, the time is ripe for more ORD service-and there are new more efficient aircraft which could make it profitable-such as perhaps E170. I just don't think 135-145's are practical any more, nor are the CRJ-200's but they're still around.

With regard to IAD, with US adding DCA, it makes it both a good and bad idea at the same time. I think that the key to ISP is the Q400, not the DH8-200/300. It has capacity, and relatively low break-even load factor, and is very efficient. I have spoken on a number of occasions to my contacts at UA management (old CO), and they had more interest in revisiting ISP-CLE on the Q400, but of course none of this has come to pass.

When DL had service to both CVG and ATL from ISP, I flew them almost every week-in fact my flights home from CVG on THursday nights were mainly with the same FA for a while, and we got pretty friendly. I think the economics (or lack thereof) of the CRJ did a lot to kill that service.

It is interesting however that you can fly a CRJ or DH8 from ISP to PHL and onward to just about anywhere for $250-$500, but to get off in PHL, it is more than likely well over $700....which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever but hey it's the airline business.

FInally with regard to ISP-EWR, that would be a GREAT idea to try again with a Dash or a Q, but as it was explained to me, with any FAA traffic restrictions, those would be the first flights to be cancelled, so they doubted they would be feasible.

ISP needs to reinvent itself-as long as fares from there remain significantly higher than from LGA/JFK/EWR, there is little hope of revitalizing it and getting more airlines to come aboard. I had heard Air Canada was looking, but that probably only excited about 5 people....


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 2195 times:

Quoting flyer62 (Reply 4):

Ran out? Here's some more! ............................................................................



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1583 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 2084 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 6):
but good old Uncle Chuck Schumer was being very vocal about pushing them into ISP

That's what the voters elected good old Uncle Chuck Schumer to do - promote services for the citizens of NY. Convenient Air service into ISP sounds like a reasonable quest and a benefit to those in the vicinity.


User currently offlinenomorerjs From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 2061 times:

ISP - ORD will probably happen soon, on jungle jets. Part of the Chicago (ORD/MDW) to New York / Newark (LGA/EWR/JFK/HPN/ISP/SWF) frequency that would make Domino's Pizza happy, every 10 minutes or less between AA, DL, NK, WN, UA. Now if we could just get a "Double Double" on the route!

25 B6JFKH81 : ...and I don't disagree JAAlbert. My airline owes a lot to Chuck for their existance, and as a resident of Long Island, I would love to see my own ai
26 soon7x7 : Actually last year saw on three occasions, JetBlue A320's @ ISP. ( Charters most probably). If a carrier the likes of WN can't make a go of ISP then
27 spiritair97 : B6 was looking at adding service to Florida and the Caribbean from ISP recently, but said that they estimated to not start service to ISP until at le
28 TWA772LR : I could see Dash 8 and 50 seat RJ service from ORD and IAD, maybe EWR and to a lesser extent, CLE to ISP. Maybe they can send some ERJ-135 up there...
29 art at isp : ISP-ORD was done with ERJ 135 and 145, and it didn't work then...there is no reason to think it will work now. I think a smaller large aircraft (lol)
30 jetpixx : I remember flying out of ISP back in the mid-1980's...jumping on an EA 727 (ISP-FLL), I saw a UA 727, US DC9 and AA 727 on the ramp. They also used to
31 mark777300 : Contrary to what people think, while Eastern Long island is considered to have a large number of high income residents, a lot of Long Island is either
32 RWA380 : OK, like so many smaller ISP has lost much mainline service, if the money is so good in this area why can't airlines make an ISP operation work enoug
33 art at isp : In the case of Southwest, now that they have LGA, they don't need ISP. In the case of the others, I believe it is economics. 35-50 seat jets have just
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