clickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9444 posts, RR: 72 Reply 2, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 21335 times:
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Please do not turn this into a political thread.
He was flying around in an Ameristar MD-80, but I read he upgraded?
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22024 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 21269 times:
Using different ones, Ameristar MD-80 and Miami Air 737 most recently.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
liftsifter From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 237 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 21259 times:
Up until now, I was under the impression he was flying commercial.
ExpressJet_ERJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 827 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 21095 times:
If anyone cares, Michelle Bachmann was on one of the flights I worked back when she was still in the running (Frontier Express). I have a pretty cool picture with her.
spiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 21036 times:
His Miami 738 was N732MA
I pictured it taking off from FRG a few months back on a sports charter.
tymnbalewne From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 912 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 20656 times:
The video of him onboard the flight to LAS seemed to indicate a regional jet of some sort. There were large overhead bins on the starboard side and smaller ones on the port side.
iFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 380 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 20544 times:
Does anyone know if they're going to paint his chartered plane as a Romney billboard as has been done in the past with Obama, McCain, Kerry, etc?
cokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1088 posts, RR: 9 Reply 9, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 20514 times:
The news mentioned that on his arrival in Las Vegas, his plane "dwarfed" that of Donald Trump,
I was wondering the same thing. What plane he is using.
classicjets From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 49 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 20163 times:
Quoting tymnbalewne (Reply 7): The video of him onboard the flight to LAS seemed to indicate a regional jet of some sort. There were large overhead bins on the starboard side and smaller ones on the port side.
The footage I've seen (both interior and exiting onto the ramp) looked like a Dornier 328JET so I'm thinking Ultimate Air Shuttle, maybe?
jporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 358 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 20110 times:
Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 8):
Does anyone know if they're going to paint his chartered plane as a Romney billboard as has been done in the past with Obama, McCain, Kerry, etc?
That would be really cool, but in order to do that he would have to stop switching aircraft and settle on one plane to use for the rest of his campaign. Also, mods, please change the title to reflect the correct spelling of his name: Mitt.
Molykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 30 Reply 12, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 20081 times:
Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 8): Does anyone know if they're going to paint his chartered plane as a Romney billboard as has been done in the past with Obama, McCain, Kerry, etc?
Can I laugh at the fact that the Obama and Kerry 757 aircraft are much less "green" than the McCain 737? Can I also laugh at Obama and Kerry not having the sense to snag a 757 with Pratt (American) engines?
Newark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1172 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 20055 times:
Quoting Molykote (Reply 12): Can I also laugh at Obama and Kerry not having the sense to snag a 757 with Pratt (American) engines?
Why would that be sensible? You get what the charter company has.
Molykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 30 Reply 14, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 19978 times:
Quoting Newark727 (Reply 13): Why would that be sensible? You get what the charter company has.
It's not like they book a one off flight. They lease the aircraft for months, design and paint a livery, etc. I haven't taken a close look at available used/charter aircraft lately, but based on the number of bogus token gestures these guys make I'd expect a little more thought put into such an expensive asset (even a leased one) that is literally an overt political statement.
For what it's worth, I don't particularly care what aircraft or engine type one buys (I'd select -535s if I needed a 757 myself).
Newark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1172 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 19961 times:
Quoting Molykote (Reply 14):
It's not like they book a one off flight. They lease the aircraft for months, design and paint a livery, etc. I haven't taken a close look at available used/charter aircraft lately, but based on the number of bogus token gestures these guys make I'd expect a little more thought put into such an expensive asset (even a leased one) that is literally an overt political statement.
For what it's worth, I don't particularly care what aircraft or engine type one buys (I'd select -535s if I needed a 757 myself).
Well then you've answered your own question. You, on an aviation enthusiast forum, don't care what engine type someone uses on their plane; why would the average voter?
Very few to none of the presidential candidates fly commercially or did fly commercially it just not possible with a campaign schedule would take much too much time and still cost a lot with the amount of staff.
Once he picks a plane/company he will almost certainly paint it. Its part of the campaign at that point.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
Molykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 30 Reply 17, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 19704 times:
Quoting Newark727 (Reply 15): Well then you've answered your own question. You, on an aviation enthusiast forum, don't care what engine type someone uses on their plane; why would the average voter?
I don't care because I am looking at the proposition from a non-political angle (one of technical enthusiasm).
Whether most voters can distinguish an A321 from a 757 at a distance of 100 yards is a separate matter (IMO) from whether or not a candidate would want to prevent the green activists or a union group from protesting over the relatively high CO2 emissions of a 757 (vs 737) or raising a fuss over the jobs that could have been "kept in this country" if the aircraft had Pratt engines.
To be clear, I think that the dollars and cents of both the CO2 and "domestic manufacturing jobs" arguments are bogus - but I'm no the one who sold a 300C to buy a hybrid to pimp my "green" credentials.
clickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9444 posts, RR: 72 Reply 18, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 19685 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Once he wins his parties nomination he will have a properly painted campaign plane.
wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4553 posts, RR: 17 Reply 19, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 19654 times:
Usually they get into the big jet after the convention. Until then, it's charter this and charter that. The need for ever-larger planes comes from need to cart along more traveling press, staff, and, ultimately, security. Once the candidate is eligible for the Service to provide protection (and the timing of that has changed over the years), there appears to be more order to the charter program. Read Primary Colors for an excellent description of how this all works. The sitting President, of course, gets to use the biggest plane of all for his campaign, reimbursed at a fraction of what would be the actual market price. But that happens regardless of which party is in the White House, and there is a colorable reason for it.
Hard to know whether North American will have a 757 available for the Romney campaign this year, given all the aircraft it rejected in bankruptcy. But maybe Ryan or Atlas will step up to the plate...
PurdueAv2003 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 246 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 19652 times:
Quoting Molykote (Reply 12): Can I laugh at the fact that the Obama and Kerry 757 aircraft are much less "green" than the McCain 737? Can I also laugh at Obama and Kerry not having the sense to snag a 757 with Pratt (American) engines?
I'm guessing they went with the RB211's for the take-off performance following campaign events in the South.
zkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 776 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14712 times:
Quoting Molykote (Reply 12): Can I also laugh at Obama and Kerry not having the sense to snag a 757 with Pratt (American) engines?
Quoting PurdueAv2003 (Reply 20): I'm guessing they went with the RB211's for the take-off performance following campaign events in the South.
Hate to burst you bubble, but Dubya and co leased N750NA (another North American Airlines Boeing 757-200 with Rolls Royce engines) for the 2004 presidential campaign. Picture here: http://bit.ly/JzYdeU
max550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1111 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14590 times:
Quoting Molykote (Reply 12): Can I laugh at the fact that the Obama and Kerry 757 aircraft are much less "green" than the McCain 737? Can I also laugh at Obama and Kerry not having the sense to snag a 757 with Pratt (American) engines?
The average voter barely knows what manufacturer the planes are, I highly doubt more than a fraction of 1% of people know what engines the aircraft is equipped with.
It just isn't that big an issue, Sarah Palin used a Jetblue E190 in 2008 and nobody (that I know of) had any issue with it being a foreign built aircraft.
VictorKilo From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 298 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14589 times:
Is range a consideration when selecting an aircraft? Based on the state of play of this year's electoral map, Romney's plane could end up flying 2500 miles between MHT and RNO, as both NH and NV are swing states. This is no problem for a Kerry or Obama 752, but could this be flown in in a 734 (McCain's plane) with the typical loads of a campaign flight, or do the campaigns normally find a swing state stop in between (a stop in SUX in swing-state Iowa adds 0.3% to the trip mileage)?
aviatorcraig From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2010, 83 posts, RR: 0 Reply 26, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13688 times:
Quoting Molykote (Reply 12): Can I laugh at the fact that the Obama and Kerry 757 aircraft are much less "green" than the McCain 737? Can I also laugh at Obama and Kerry not having the sense to snag a 757 with Pratt (American) engines?
Wait a minute... they are CFM56s on McCain's 737, which are part French...
Molykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 30 Reply 28, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12996 times:
Quoting zkojq (Reply 22): Hate to burst you bubble, but Dubya and co leased N750NA (another North American Airlines Boeing 757-200 with Rolls Royce engines) for the 2004 presidential campaign. Picture here: http://bit.ly/JzYdeU
It's not bursting my bubble at all. I've already said that I personally don't care what airplane once cares to charter/lease (and that I'd go for a -535 myself). As for Bush, I don't think that he was making nearly the effort to maintain a "green" image or to pander to unionized domestic manufacturing employees the way most Democrats do. Obama put a modest 19,000 miles on a Chrysler 300C over 3 years, but decided to replace this with a Ford hybrid to promote his green image. What is differential in environmental damage caused by the 300C/Escape Hybrid differential over 19,000 miles vs a ~7% fuel burn delta on the PW2000 vs -535?
acidradio From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1855 posts, RR: 10 Reply 29, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12853 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Just a *friendly* reminder to keep posts in this thread about the airplanes and not about the politics of its passengers. Needless to say we are rather touchy about political discussion in our Civil Aviation forum threads. Thanks!
CO772 From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 25 posts, RR: 0 Reply 30, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11772 times:
Quoting zkojq (Reply 22): Hate to burst you bubble, but Dubya and co leased N750NA (another North American Airlines Boeing 757-200 with Rolls Royce engines) for the 2004 presidential campaign. Picture here: http://bit.ly/JzYdeU
This would have been for the 2000 campaign.... W would have had AF1 for the 2004 campaign.
jporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 358 posts, RR: 0 Reply 31, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11608 times:
Personally, I'm hoping for Romney to charter and paint a 762 for his campaign. Although I suppose that a 762 could be overkill on the number of people it could carry, but hey, if he has enough staffers/press to fill it, why not go for it? I'm pretty sure his campaign can afford it. A potential issue would be airports with small runways, as well as the increased fuel burn over a 757. It would be awesome if he could charter a 787, but I recognize that there's no chance of that happening as there aren't any available for charter.
max550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1111 posts, RR: 0 Reply 32, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11034 times:
Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 24): Is range a consideration when selecting an aircraft?
Could be. I believe Obama used the 757 for his trip to the Middle East and Germany in 2008 which would have been tough on a 737.
YYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 852 posts, RR: 0 Reply 33, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10955 times:
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 19): The sitting President, of course, gets to use the biggest plane of all for his campaign, reimbursed at a fraction of what would be the actual market price
B6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2767 posts, RR: 7 Reply 34, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10880 times:
Quoting max550 (Reply 23): It just isn't that big an issue, Sarah Palin used a Jetblue E190 in 2008 and nobody (that I know of) had any issue with it being a foreign built aircraft.
Yes, but she was a VICE Presidential candidate, not the Presidential candidate. McCain was using a B6 aircraft during the primary phase, but once he got the official nomination, he dropped B6 because they didn't have American-made aircraft and quite a few modifications would have to be done to the plane. Palin didn't need as big of a plane and wanted the LiveTV product so she went with a B6 E190. Other than the paint, I think the only modification that was done to the plane was adding a dividing curtain between the front of the plane and the back...a first class divider but no first class seats installed, just separating her and close staff from everyone else.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
usafret From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 56 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8341 times:
He just won the nomination with the Texas primary, so I'm sure his Election Committee will now turn to leasing an aircraft with his logo and name on it just like previous Presidential campaigns. Between now and August (the nominating convention) he'll spend more time fund raising and so may not need a larger airplane but once he starts hauling the press and his staff around, I'm sure at least a B737 will be appropriate He won't be using Net Jets! (Buffett's company).
SEA From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 215 posts, RR: 0 Reply 37, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8396 times:
Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 34): Yes, but she was a VICE Presidential candidate, not the Presidential candidate. McCain was using a B6 aircraft during the primary phase, but once he got the official nomination, he dropped B6 because they didn't have American-made aircraft and quite a few modifications would have to be done to the plane. Palin didn't need as big of a plane and wanted the LiveTV product so she went with a B6 E190. Other than the paint, I think the only modification that was done to the plane was adding a dividing curtain between the front of the plane and the back...a first class divider but no first class seats installed, just separating her and close staff from everyone else.
I was onboard N239JB at one point during her election campaign and there was a divider after the first four rows with the McCain/Palin logo, though it was moveable. However, the plane was carrying at the time only 48 people.
tztristar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1419 posts, RR: 9 Reply 38, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6582 times:
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 19): Hard to know whether North American will have a 757 available for the Romney campaign this year, given all the aircraft it rejected in bankruptcy.
NA has returned all of their 757s and the fleet is now only 5 763s.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
max550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1111 posts, RR: 0 Reply 39, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6113 times:
This got me interested in past campaign aircraft so I did some searching around and found some interesting things.
First of all, the use of a foreign built aircraft isn't unprecedented as George Wallace and later Ronald Reagan used BAC-111's.
So my guess is that this year we'll see Romney using a Boeing of some sort, possibly more than one. I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of livery they come up with.
bikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1588 posts, RR: 4 Reply 40, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5994 times:
Quoting Molykote (Reply 12):
Can I laugh at the fact that the Obama and Kerry 757 aircraft are much less "green"
So what? As I recall, Al Gore was running on the Green principle. Obama just had "green" on the side . . . more like a salad.
Quoting Molykote (Reply 17): raising a fuss over the jobs that could have been "kept in this country" if the aircraft had Pratt engines.
LOL maintaining a 757 will require more worker than maintaining a 737
Besides, from a strategic campaigning stand point, the 757 is a faster aircraft, a campaigner can spend more time on the ground . . . even a few extra minutes helps.
Now, do the campaign charges reporters to go fly with the campaign? If so, then you can get extra money by packing more reporters in a 757
Quoting ATLTowerBoy (Reply 21):
Delta has P&W on their B-757's and they fly in the south!!!
The Rolls always had quieter engines for those late night stop over when you don't want people to hear you coming.
max550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1111 posts, RR: 0 Reply 41, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5967 times:
Quoting bikerthai (Reply 40): All of these planes have something in common . . . they are older planes that are more readily available for short term leases.
The Bush/Cheney 757 is the newest one at 5 years old at the time it was used. Maybe Boeing can bring the 5 year old 787 that they retired recently for Romney (obviously wishful thinking)
CoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 356 posts, RR: 0 Reply 42, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5936 times:
American should lease out to the campaigns their new B777-300 with 10 across seating and let the reporters enjoy the new standard of comfort in their travels with the candidates! Probably a lot of grumpy reporting.
bikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1588 posts, RR: 4 Reply 43, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5668 times:
Quoting max550 (Reply 41): Maybe Boeing can bring the 5 year old 787 that they retired recently for Romney (obviously wishful thinking)
My though exactly. However I don't think the airframe is the issue, it's the availability of engines and other spare parts to keep the plane on a tight schedule.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16812 posts, RR: 57 Reply 45, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4923 times:
Quoting max550 (Reply 23): The average voter barely knows what manufacturer the planes are,
But all it takes is one blowhard pundit to point out that this candidate is flying a plane MADE IN FRANCE! Doesn't matter that 50% of the components are US-made (in fact, some Airbus products could be argued to be more "American" than some Boeing models, IIRC). In politics, calm and sober reasoning unfortunately take a back seat.
Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 26): Wait a minute... they are CFM56s on McCain's 737, which are part French...
That's his campaign in tatters already
Duh! That's clearly why he lost the election!
Quoting max550 (Reply 39): I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of livery they come up with.
Eurowhite. Banner "Romney" titles in the style they've been using. Just you wait and see.
jumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 470 posts, RR: 0 Reply 46, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4756 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45): But all it takes is one blowhard pundit to point out that this candidate is flying a plane MADE IN FRANCE!
Readers may have seen the topic about UK Prime Minister going on a Far east tour in a 747 chartered from an overseas company. One of our local rags, I mean an esteemed national newspaper, decided to raise hell about this and for a few days it was very big and very negative news - why didnt he charter from BA or VS etc etc
Now cross the atlantic and you can imagine the furore if a presidential candidate decided to charter a foreign registered plane or even worse an AIrbus..
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52 Reply 47, posted (11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4623 times:
I seem to recall when Obama was campaigning during the primaries he had an MD-90. This would have been before he got the B-757. IIRC, there was an engine failure on one trip during his MD-90 days forcing an emergency landing somewhere.
wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4553 posts, RR: 17 Reply 50, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3850 times:
Does North American even have any 757s that they didn't reject in bankruptcy? It's a bit hard to tell from the filings, as it looks like they rejected a bunch of GECAS aircraft, and then worked out a new deal. Had to gag a bit reading those filings -- it's the AMC's fault that they don't need the 4 744s they leased anymore? Not buying that. What IS true is that some of the players on the teaming arrangements have muscled/hoodwinked other players (allegedly FedEx and Omni) and there are new entrants (Atlas) on the passenger side. Yes, the pie was declining, but it's more than that. Also, a bunch of World's capacity was aimed at long-term freight lease contracts outside of the AMC business, and yet those aircraft are being rejected, too.
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No 787 or 747-8 for this campaign. 
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