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Kenya Airways Huge Expansion Plans  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15916 times:

I have to recognize that this is a surprise for me.
A good one !!  http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...-reveals-huge-expansion-plans-0530


Rgds.

G.


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMa346 From Montserrat, joined Sep 2007, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15245 times:

I was in Nairobi airport 2 years ago and couldn't find a hotel to overnight. It will be difficult to count on transfer passangers trough Nairobi. Or is there that much local demand? I don't think so.

Sound like they have the most supervision now in eastern Africa to be THE african airline. Geografically seems good,

The airport could hardly handle such traffic. They can bild a bigger airport, but no chance to have the proper people to run it. You can buy western managers, but that is not the point.


User currently offlineSSPhoenix From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2010, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15087 times:

Thank for posting the article Gonzalo,


We all know that KQ have enjoyed a relatively good rate of expansion since the deal with KLM, and adopting better (Privatised) organisational structure.

One just needs to look at the 'influx' of the Gulf carriers at NBO, EK was and is the dominant one, with QR and EY most likely looking to increase capacity - Why? Because Kenya is a hub Geographically (Ma346 - as you correctly observe) for the region of East Africa, there is a huge Indian, Chinese, Australian and growing American presence there.

This presents KQ with the opportunity to offer travellers point-to-point type destinations, and thus by-pass the middle-eastern hubs. I have to say, the number of aircraft and the capital required for an airline like KQ is ... hair raising - I do hope they are realistic as well as opportunistic, it will be a shame to see another case such as Austral (Now with a shrinkage plan)

NBO airport is a nightmare ... I'm a Kenyan living in the UK, and as wonderful it is to go home, I dread going through JKIA; before moving to the UK 7 years ago there all sorts of talk where the Belgian govt had issued funding to Kenyan Govt (it was in 100s of millions of $$$) to develop a new terminal for JKIA .... nothing substantial came out of it - just a fancy face lift.I know this is besides the point - but IT IS THE POINT that will limit KQ from creating a quality travel hub within East Africa.

Eldoret is already a Cargo hub thanks to huge demand for import goods and fast track clearing customs - Maybe KQ can tap into this market with the 77Fs.

As far as I'm concerned, can't wait to see the 77W in KQ Colours .... My God it will be a thing of beauty



There's Method in the Madness ...
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12595 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15086 times:

Quoting Ma346 (Reply 1):
They can bild a bigger airport, but no chance to have the proper people to run it. You can buy western managers, but that is not the point.

They can train them; Kenya has a pretty large population and I'm sure that KQ would be a very sought after employer in the country. Unlike Qatar and the UAE, which doesn't really have the local population to support a major carrier (and therefore relies heavily on Expats), Kenya does.

Hasn't KQ ordered 77Ws? When are the first of these being delivered?


User currently onlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1910 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 14793 times:

first of all they really need a huge expansion in NBO, because right now during some hours is full... no place to park more planes and people sitting on the floor in the terminal. The new satellite is not enough. Even the Business lounge is terrible... it´s so small an always pack... I have been many times and it´s so hard to find a place to sit, specially in the evening when few long haul leaves.. between 9-11pm... Bangkok, London, Paris, plus KLM to AMS and all the regional and many african destinations..... And then if you go out situation is worse... there´s no place to sit and not even a proper coffee shop or restaurant.... one of the worse airports in the world for sure...

New Runway... the space is there but they are not starting even taxiway M is ready to be extended but nothing yet....

The airport is just too small (terminal, Parkings, Duty free, parking stands, runways, hangars) and not only KQ but all the other airlines are planning to expand and new airlines opening soon...

Also on top of all of this add the fact that Kenya Airways has not enough pilots and the union is blocking the hiring of expats, so some cancellation and delay caused by the lack of crew member. The company is trying to create a paralel airline because all this problems...


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13964 times:

I hope JFK (or any other Northeastern airport) is on that list.  

User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13882 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 4):
Also on top of all of this add the fact that Kenya Airways has not enough pilots and the union is blocking the hiring of expats, so some cancellation and delay caused by the lack of crew member. The company is trying to create a paralel airline because all this problems...

Sometimes the unions are a real drag against the growth of a company, we have some sad examples here in Latin America, let's hope KQ could find the way to deal with them and keep this plans alive.

Rgds.

G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4022 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13821 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):
I hope JFK (or any other Northeastern airport) is on that list.

I suspect that it or EWR probably are, along with IAD or BWI. I also seem to recall reading a thread here some years back that KQ was hinting a a MIA service, though nothing ever materialized. As they reference North America, not specifically the US, YYZ is another likely market.



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently onlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6350 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13624 times:

I go thru NBO regularly (BA, KL, VS etc)...and all I can say is that NBO is desperate need of upgrade and expansion.


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13445 times:

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 7):
I suspect that it or EWR probably are, along with IAD or BWI. I also seem to recall reading a thread here some years back that KQ was hinting a a MIA service, though nothing ever materialized. As they reference North America, not specifically the US, YYZ is another likely market.

KQ is a member of SkyTeam, so I wouldn't be surprised to see JFK and/or ATL in the future.



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13317 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 9):

KQ is a member of SkyTeam, so I wouldn't be surprised to see JFK and/or ATL in the future

JFK has been on KQ's short list for years, I remember being at my desk 3-4 years ago reading a trade mag on KQ and their new 777's, and JFK was mentioned several times, but Kenya is cat 2 still, IIRC. And new flights are not allowed until that changes. IIRC, DL wanted to start JFK-NBO and was not allowed to at some point in the past.



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User currently onlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6350 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12837 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 10):
IIRC, DL wanted to start JFK-NBO and was not allowed to at some point in the past.

"wanted to start" is an understatement...I believe the plane was literally at the gate.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12802 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 11):
"wanted to start" is an understatement...I believe the plane was literally at the gate

Wow, ok. I do remember seeing the flights listed in Sabre, but they were always unavailable to sell pending govt approval.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1175 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12569 times:

If I remember correctly, there was talk a couple of years ago of KQ starting service to DTW.

User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12227 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 10):

What kind of aircraft were Delta gonna use on that route?


User currently offlinewarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12210 times:

With SAA quickly going down the drain. I think they are smart trying to become the premier airline in Africa.


747SP
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11960 times:

Quoting SSPhoenix (Reply 2):
there all sorts of talk where the Belgian govt had issued funding to Kenyan Govt (it was in 100s of millions of $$$) to develop a new terminal for JKIA

Why would the Belgian government spend 100s of millions on an airport in Kenya? Did a search and found nothing but think it is way more than a government would give to such a project. Even less so when there isn't the colony connection.


User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 739 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11588 times:

Hi guys,

the ATW article is a teaser compared to the very comprehensive (surprisingly so) article in CAPA, which was discussed here a few weeks ago.

Article: http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...-inhabited-continent-by-2017-71784

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 7):
I suspect that it or EWR probably are, along with IAD or BWI. I also seem to recall reading a thread here some years back that KQ was hinting a a MIA service, though nothing ever materialized. As they reference North America, not specifically the US, YYZ is another likely market.
Quoting FSDan (Reply 9):
KQ is a member of SkyTeam, so I wouldn't be surprised to see JFK and/or ATL in the future.

Both of you are mostly wrong: it will be YYZ and IAD!!! Not sure either one makes sense as both are Star hubs.

JKIA is in bad shape, and help is NOT on the way, see: African Aviation Thread Part 6 (by sepultallica Mar 2 2012 in Civil Aviation)#25

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
Hasn't KQ ordered 77Ws? When are the first of these being delivered?

It indeed has ordered two: first coming in Oct '13 and the second in May '14, see: http://ww.airliners.net/aviation-for...read.main/5277968/?threadid=527796

For those interested, read our past discussions on KQ plans at: http://ww.airliners.net/aviation-for...general_aviation/read.main/5440973


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11341 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 14):
What kind of aircraft were Delta gonna use on that route?

I am unsure what aircraft type DL was planning to use. n/s would have had to have been 777, but I thought the original plan was to get to NBO old PA style, via a western Africa stop enroute like ACC, then I guess a 763 would have been ample lift for a long tag route like that, IIRC it was not planned as daily, at least at first.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineantskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 936 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11288 times:

I am very keen on the plan to connect with Australia (via PER). It would be great to have another option from here to the middle parts of of Africa - and on to Europe. NBO as a distributive hub, in the DXB way.

User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 739 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9842 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 18):
I am unsure what aircraft type DL was planning to use. n/s would have had to have been 777, but I thought the original plan was to get to NBO old PA style, via a western Africa stop enroute like ACC, then I guess a 763 would have been ample lift for a long tag route like that, IIRC it was not planned as daily, at least at first.

IIRC, it was to be a 763ER via DKR.
See more at: http://www.internationalreportingproject.org/stories/detail/1179/


User currently onlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1910 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9743 times:

Quoting antskip (Reply 19):
I am very keen on the plan to connect with Australia (via PER).

Right now they don´t have sufficient ETOPS to operate the route, Maybe in a few years with B787.


According to some info I have from KQ insiders they are planning to start asap NBO-DKR-JFK with B767 then later will be direct with B787 or B77ER. Actually the logic choice is JFK then ATL maybe because of Skyteam presence in both airports. Also in plans are NBO-BKK, NBO-HKG, NBO-PEK and in study is also NBO-KUL (big African community, students and business in Malaysia and good cargo loads)... Seem like yields in CAN are not good to operate a dedicate flight and it will continue via BKK because now biggest part of the cargo they use to transport from CAN to Africa will go with the new Cargo division.

We will start seeing more movement when the first B787 arrives, they just got another B767 but they will use to release some pressure and overwork on the actual long haul fleet and they also add New Delhi. Embraers keep arriving and the Embraer simulator will be soon in KQ training facility with the B737 sim.


User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 739 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9230 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 21):
According to some info I have from KQ insiders they are planning to start asap NBO-DKR-JFK with B767 then later will be direct with B787 or B77ER. Actually the logic choice is JFK then ATL maybe because of Skyteam presence in both airports. Also in plans are NBO-BKK, NBO-HKG, NBO-PEK and in study is also NBO-KUL (big African community, students and business in Malaysia and good cargo loads)... Seem like yields in CAN are not good to operate a dedicate flight and it will continue via BKK because now biggest part of the cargo they use to transport from CAN to Africa will go with the new Cargo division.

Interesting insight migair.

Would Senegal allow them 5th freedom rights out/into DKR? or this will just be a technical stop? Makes me wonder if they were feeding back info to CAPA for that long and detailed article or it was a bad plan from the get-go and they are already adjusting it?

JFK definitely makes more sense than IAD or even YYZ as a starting point. Crowded market but can probably work for KQ esp if they can eventually go direct with the 77W in end of 2013.


User currently offlinenclmedic From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9193 times:

Quoting SSPhoenix (Reply 2):
NBO airport is a nightmare
Quoting SSPhoenix (Reply 2):
IT IS THE POINT that will limit KQ from creating a quality travel hub within East Africa.

Absolutely, 100% agree. NBO is by far the worst airport I've ever transited (yes, transited!) through in my years of travel. Effectively a large car park. KQ would need a new airport (unrealistic) or a new terminal (more likely) before they could even think of tempting passengers away from Euro and Middle East Carriers.


User currently offlineSSPhoenix From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2010, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8830 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 16):
Why would the Belgian government spend 100s of millions on an airport in Kenya? Did a search and found nothing but think it is way more than a government would give to such a project. Even less so when there isn't the colony connection.

My apologies people ... I should have backed up my point with a figure. And it was wrong to state that 'just' the Belgian Government gave such an amount to Kenya to develop JKIA. We have a family friend (expat) who worked in the IMF - she says it was a jointly funded project headed by the IMF - Where the US, UK, Belgium (Representing the EU Block), Japan were interested in NBO developing JKIA into a capable hub. Dr. Titus Naikuni, KQ CEO was totally behind it - BUT it involved the government committing to a partnership between the Private Sector and Govt Development Body.

I only managed to (rather quickly) find this:

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/I...TKENYA/Resources/air_transport.pdf

As a side note ... does anyone know if KQ is restricted by NBOs altitude on it's current routes?

Also, what Engines have they selected for the 787s?



There's Method in the Madness ...
25 KC135TopBoom : What airplanes do they have on order, in addition to the B-777s and B-787s? Is there a chance they might order some B-747-8s, both "F" and "I"? I woul
26 peanuts : This all makes sense. There is definitely an opportunity here. I hope someone also is thinking "facilities" though. Can't grow one without the other..
27 nickofatlanta : With regards to US expansion, I seem to remember that part owner, KL, was discouraging / possibly vetoed KQ plans to start service out of fear of losi
28 migair54 : It´s better to lose that pax to KQ than to other carriers, like ET, EK or QR. Market is there and a direct flight from the USA to NBO then to the wh
29 Post contains images frigatebird : GEnx. KQ has 9 787s on order directly from Boeing, first one to be delivered Q4 2013. Should be one of the prettier 787s They're planning to have 32
30 cmf : That sounds much more reasonable. Thanks for filling in the missing information.
31 Post contains links and images ETinCaribe : well, for starters, DL is not going to be too happy, since they do fly JFK-DKR albeit 3x weekly. Hence it may have to be direct NBO-JFK or with just
32 AF022 : Is there really that much traffic between Australia and Africa? The risk of a long flight between NBO and Australia must be very high. And where? PER
33 777way : According to CAPA they are also launching Beirut this winter and plan to resume Karachi next year.
34 LIPZ : If they are not able to make IST, FCO work it is not believable they can fly to PRG, BER and other such places in Europe.[Edited 2012-06-06 00:37:42]
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