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Iran Air: Maybe Full EU Ban (Weapons Trafficking)  
User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 721 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6323 times:

Sorry if this should have been discussed before.

According to German flagship news show "heute journal", Iran Air might face a full ban from operating within EU airspace. So far, only certain A300/A310 aircraft are excluded from the EU blacklist, which otherwise includes all Iranian a/c and airlines.

This might be due to these aircraft also being used to transport weapons to Syria and Lebanon on regular passenger flights. This situation - the usage of civilian aircraft for military transports - tightens the security concerns towards Iran Air. The fear is of course that weapons might also be smuggeled into the EU this way.

Another problem with Iran Air that may lead to a full EU ban is that it is not clear whether the company is properly insured. Its insurer is already sanctioned, and thus would not have any legal competence within the EU.

A possible reason why Iran Air hasn't been fully banned so far is seen to be the fear that this could lead to Iran banning European airlines from entering the country's airspace, too.

Here the source (in German only, but maybe someone has another, international one?):
http://www.heute.de/ZDF/zdfportal/we...f%C3%BCr-Waffentransporte-ein.html

[Edited 2012-05-30 10:32:44]


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15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25429 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6156 times:

I don't get this?

Carriage of munitions or weaponry parts and equipment as cargo on regular passenger flights happens every day. With appropriate documentation, licenses, certificates, DG handling if applicable its a rather straight forward affair.

I'm not sure what the issue is here, except political agenda.  



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5984 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
With appropriate documentation, licenses, certificates, DG handling if applicable its a rather straight forward affair.

Assuming the weapons are being "smuggled" (which they would be due to the sanctions against Syria), it would imply a lack of appropriate documentation.

Of course it's political, but Iran and Syria aren't exactly on the good side of many nations right now.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9649 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5938 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):

Carriage of munitions or weaponry parts and equipment as cargo on regular passenger flights happens every day. With appropriate documentation, licenses, certificates, DG handling if applicable its a rather straight forward affair.

I would assume the problem is failure to declare such parts. However I would be surprised if a significant amount of undocumented material has made it into the EU. I would expect that Iran Air airplanes get quite a bit off attention by customs officials and one bust would become big news quickly. However that is just speculation on my part.

The EU also can ban Iran Air for not properly declaring cargo on flights not operated to the EU. If they use civilian flights to smuggle cargo, then they are not meeting IATA standards for cargo declaration and that can also get them blacklisted.

There are multiple ways to legitimize a ban even if it is truly based on political agenda.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4006 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5826 times:
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I can see how it could be interpreted as a political move in the current context, but I don't think that it is, or should be. If smuggling it is, then Iran Air is a smuggler and needs to be treated as such. That it does it in one part of the world, and not (yet) in another is irrelevant.

If your accountant gets caught cooking the books of one of his customers but he swears he has been nothing but perfectly honest in his dealings with you, are you going to keep trusting him or start looking for a new accountant?



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5723 times:

Well, the clip actually focuses on safety concern of the A300 fleet because they are kept alive with what they call ''bogus-parts''. Replica parts that are not certified or old, fatigued original parts that don't meet requirements any longer.

They also mention Iran Air could smuggle ''weapons'' into the EU in retaliation, should their nuclear program be attacked.

But I believe colluding with terrorist organisations (Hizbollah) should also be a good enough reason to sanction a company, ie ban it from entering the EU.

From the clip, not banning them is political. They don't want to anger Iran unnecassarily and risk losing landing and overflight rights for their domestic airlines.

From my personal judgment, this report is really a lot of hot air about nothing. Some politicans have a problem with Iran and want to expand the sanctions on them, and Iran Air is an easy target for that. A not entirely unjustified claim.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25429 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5709 times:

Why would they be smuggled?

Iran and Syria are free to have the trade relations they wish. Whatever restrictions on sale of arms the US, EU, or even UN wish to impose does not stop a sovereign nation from carrying out its own desired foreign and trade policy.

Ultimately, this is a bigger political agenda, and nothing to do with Iran Air. Carry stuff on aircraft is hardly an issue.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5238 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Ultimately, this is a bigger political agenda, and nothing to do with Iran Air. Carry stuff on aircraft is hardly an issue.

Legally, it is. If they operate on behalf of the Iranian government they're subject to different treatment than private companies.

But I wouldn't read too much into this article anyway. If you watch the video, you can see/hear them describe a Yasair IL76 as a ''passenger jet''. I doubt this is a report on the latest development behind EU doors, but rather something someone somewhere is somehow working on.

People are mad nobody is doing anything about Syria because they don't understand the problem. Calling for a ban of Syria's friends is just a knee-jerk reaction to these unthought through demands by the simpletons.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineaxelesgg From Sweden, joined Jan 2010, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

Wonder if western airlines will be banned to fly to Iran aswell if this happens.
EU and USA co-operates too much, we'll miss the IranAirs in Europe!


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4006 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4069 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Why would they be smuggled?

Iran and Syria are both members of the UN, a club no one forced them to join. One of the conditions of membership is to occasionally surrender part of one's sovereignty and abide by UN decisions, such as the one banning the import of weapons into Syria...

Quoting axelesgg (Reply 8):
Wonder if western airlines will be banned to fly to Iran aswell if this happens.

Flying to Iran isn't of much concern, flying over Iran is a bigger one. There are many air routes to India and further East going through Iranian airspace. They could fly a little further South, but it's crowded...



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3397 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
With appropriate documentation, licenses, certificates, DG handling if applicable its a rather straight forward affair.

I'm not sure what the issue is here, except political agenda.

No offense here but that's funny. I'm quite sure Iran flies by the numbers...   
It is hard enough to expect our government to do it right.

Quoting axelesgg (Reply 8):
USA co-operates too much

It will be the USA that will be supect of the ban anyway. Thats just how they roll.


User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3103 times:

I believe weapons are being brought into Syria through Lebanon via Iran Air.
The problem is that

Quoting something (Reply 7):
People are mad nobody is doing anything about Syria because they don't understand the problem

Going to war with Syria OR Iran would literally start world war 3. I believe that is why Nato have done nothing there, despite the tens of thousands of people murdered by the terrorist Assad government. Not only are they murdering their own, they are crossing into Northern Lebanon and have killed 5 people who are helping the refugees. It's disgusting that the Arab league did nothing to stop the Syrians and it is a bigger crime that Nato have done nothing, YET they quickly moved to sort things out in Libya.

The situation in Syria is a lot more problematic because of the close ties the country has with Iran, and with Hezbollah.
I am half Lebanese and I travel to Lebanon frequently. Hezbollah is not wanted in the country, despite being "elected"- which was a joke in itself because they purchased votes to get in. It is because Hezbollah are in power and in cahoots with the Iranians and Syrians that Lebanon could exert no control over what is happening in Syria. Lebanon is a giant source of food, banking, oil and weaponry for Syria's Assad. The majority of people in the country are absolutely appalled by what is happening in neighbouring Syria but because we have this awful Hezbollah government in control, our hands are tied. I would guarantee 100% that weapons are coming from Iran on Iran Airways aircraft to Beirut and by boat also from other countries.

On the other hand, I feel terrible for the Iranians who are forced to put their lives in the hands of aircraft which are well past their sell by dates and with these bogus parts.



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Whatever restrictions on sale of arms the US, EU, or even UN wish to impose does not stop a sovereign nation from carrying out its own desired foreign and trade policy.
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 9):
One of the conditions of membership is to occasionally surrender part of one's sovereignty and abide by UN decisions,

Then all Chinese airlines would have been banned from the EU and the US if this policy was applied evenly.

Nations which disagree with UN decisions operate contray to those decisions all the time. Almost every UN member conducts some operations in violation of UN decisions. It is no big deal.

Quoting axelesgg (Reply 8):
Wonder if western airlines will be banned to fly to Iran aswell if this happens.

Of course Iran would ban overflights by EU and other western nation airlines. No matter which way you side on the 'issue' you have to realize such a move by Iran would be obvious.

Frankly, I doubt this is anything more than stirring an empty pot to sell more advertising.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25429 posts, RR: 49
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2719 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 9):
Iran and Syria are both members of the UN, a club no one forced them to join. One of the conditions of membership is to occasionally surrender part of one's sovereignty and abide by UN decisions, such as the one banning the import of weapons into Syria...

Nations are free to accept to comply with UN decisions or not.

You think the US and USSR back in the day (or even today) comply with all UN mandates?

At the end of the day, Iran and Syria are free to carry on with the relations they wish including trade from oranges to guns.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 10):
No offense here but that's funny. I'm quite sure Iran flies by the numbers...

I'm rather certain any shipments on IR would be properly documented and DG material handled accordingly. IR is not some fly by night airline.

Anyhow, there is no reason not to. There is nothing to hide a long standing ongoing relationship between the nations. The Iranian navy even has two ships in Syrian ports now. Do you think they arrived empty?

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 12):
Then all Chinese airlines would have been banned from the EU and the US if this policy was applied evenly.

Nations which disagree with UN decisions operate contray to those decisions all the time. Almost every UN member conducts some operations in violation of UN decisions. It is no big deal.

   Indeed. Going back in history likely every member nation of the UN has selectively ignored and violated various UN decrees.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2456 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 11):
I would guarantee 100% that weapons are coming from Iran on Iran Airways aircraft to Beirut and by boat also from other countries.

On the other hand, I feel terrible for the Iranians who are forced to put their lives in the hands of aircraft which are well past their sell by dates and with these bogus parts.


Bingo!...And in their arrogance, all is accompanied by documentation.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
I'm rather certain any shipments on IR would be properly documented and DG material handled accordingly. IR is not some fly by night airline.


I beg to differ. Their existence in other more civilized countries if you will, does not preclude them from such accolades.


User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1246 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2342 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Anyhow, there is no reason not to. There is nothing to hide a long standing ongoing relationship between the nations. The Iranian navy even has two ships in Syrian ports now. Do you think they arrived empty?

Iran is not the only country supplying weapons to Syria. Russia has sent several boats the last one professor Katzman arrived just a few days ago.
these Russian boats all sail through the Baltic, the channel, pass Gibraltar and onwards to Syria turning off its satellite signals just before entering Syrian waters. Its not like we plan to ban Russian planes because of that.

If the EU bans IranAir it should be because their safety isn't good enough.

If Eu politicians introduces sanctions on Iran and stops flights because of this then fair enough but don't use flight safety as a way to stop their armament shipments. then the entire Eu greenbook on aviation can be challenged and not as now used as a very important pressure tool.

Add on that weapons are transferred in Europe routinely. Legal and illegal on a continuous basis. Just remember the ElAl cargo plane that dropped down on a council estate in Amsterdam. The chemical analysis have proven alot of interesting and undeclared cargo was onboard...



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