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CNN: Majority Of Pax Too Cheap To Pay For Comfort  
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6116 posts, RR: 34
Posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 20864 times:



Article on CNN, Airline squeeze: It's not you, 'it's the seat', presents this survey:

Airline comfort poll

1. What's the biggest improvement airlines could make?

--More legroom: 41%

--More comfortable seating: 30%

--More bin space, free snacks, seat outlets, fewer delays, better entertainment: 29%

2. On flights over 4 hours, would you pay $25 for more legroom?

--Yes: 35%

3. On domestic flights under 4 hours, would you pay for more legroom?

--No: 71%

Quote:
(CNN) -- If your coach airline seat is uncomfortable, it's your fault.

That's the gist of one of hundreds of responses to a CNN.com report about airline seat comfort, configuration and cost.

Coach fliers may complain about airline seats, but U.S. airlines are filling those seats pretty successfully. A commenter called withReason7 suggests that consumers are getting what they ask for.

"I will continue to blame the passengers that will sit in any crappy seat as long as it's a little bit cheaper. THAT IS WHY THE AIRLINES ARE DOING THIS. Not because they are mean, because that is what MOST travelers want..."

The Traveler's Psyche is a CNN five-week series focusing on travel scenarios that stir emotion. We're starting with frustration and will wind up on a happy note in June. This week, we'll take a closer look at air rage, the TSA and relationship travel.


Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
99 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirCanadaA330 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 20871 times:
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makes sense....after all we are our own worst enemy...


Cheers;
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 20850 times:

Yep, and that's why Y+ seating only takes up like 20% of the cabin.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6116 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 20789 times:

Another oft A.net debated topic is discussed in this CNN article The golden days of air travel: How glorious were they?


Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20364 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 20579 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 2):
Yep, and that's why Y+ seating only takes up like 20% of the cabin.

In the late 1980s I was paying ~$800 for Coach round-trip from the US west coast to Europe. I generally sat in a marginally cushy seat that didn't leave me exhausted after 10-11 hours in the air.

$800 in 1988 is worth $1,455 in 2010 dollars. I'd happily pay a reasonable sum of miles or up to $700-800 more round-trip over today's airfares on the same routes for a REAL Y+ product to Europe such as BA's World Traveller Plus or AF's Premium Voyageur. (Last year I saw PV for ~$1,800 round-trip all-in after an online 10% coupon from AF, while plain Coach was ~$1,200.)

For Economy Plus on UA or Economy Comfort on DL, I'd value the extra legroom at about $100-150 each way to Europe or Asia. OTOH, I wouldn't book on AA at all if the risk was there to be placed in a row with 10 seats across without add'l legroom on the 777 due to a flight disruption of some kind after buying MCE.

While checking in a bag on a UA flight a couple of years ago, I asked the agent if there were any better seats available than what I'd been assigned. His reply was, "yes, but you'd have to pay extra," in a manner that suggested I wouldn't want to for the DEN-PDX flight, rather than stopping to look up the price to give me that option. Nowadays, I'd bet the same agent would have tried to sell me the upgrade, or it or a TOD offer would have come through a kiosk check-in or e-mail prior to the flight.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6380 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 20510 times:

Based on uniforms, seats, etc.can someone tell me the airlines in the above pics?


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineskycub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 20503 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
Based on uniforms, seats, etc.can someone tell me the airlines in the above pics?

Southwest.


User currently offlinephatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1345 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 20469 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
Based on uniforms, seats, etc.can someone tell me the airlines in the above pics?

I think the 1st picture can be re-asked as: "Based on uniforms, seats, sleeveless man, business lady leaning away from sleeveless man, etc. can someone tell me the airlines in the above pics?" That pic brought a a good laugh to me.


User currently onlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12875 posts, RR: 100
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 20427 times:
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Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 1):
makes sense....after all we are our own worst enemy...

With the help of internet enabled price transparency...

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
I'd happily pay a reasonable sum of miles or up to $700-800 more round-trip over today's airfares on the same routes for a REAL Y+ product to Europe such as BA's World Traveller Plus or AF's Premium Voyageur.

The issue is how small the market is for a slight premium econ product. Most people are only willing to pay a *little* more for say a few inches more legroom or they are willing to pay the C/J premium. For US west coast to Europe, a seat that enables sleep is worth quite a bit.

While $7k might seem high, enough of the people willing to pay $1200 are going to consider a few grand more for the comfort. Its not that a better product couldn't be offered, it has to make sense from a yield management perspective.


Quoting ikramerica (Reply 2):
Yep, and that's why Y+ seating only takes up like 20% of the cabin.

But only a certain airlines. My employer will not pay for Y+. It is Y or, for long enough flights J. I've been given free upgrades to Y+ and that was nice, but not nice enough to pay for the little room.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24813 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 20421 times:

Nothing new -

For most consumers Price, Price & Price is what matters the most.


IATA along with other trade organizations have for ages done their own global surveys which mirror the results that for discretionary and leisure travel, pricing is by far the most important purchase factor for consumers.

Also its important to note that the leisure and discretionary travel segment makes up now 80% of all global demand and continues to rise as ever more people take to the skies, so the importance of pricing will only continue to grow over other factors.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20364 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 20278 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 8):
The issue is how small the market is for a slight premium econ product. Most people are only willing to pay a *little* more for say a few inches more legroom or they are willing to pay the C/J premium. For US west coast to Europe, a seat that enables sleep is worth quite a bit.

For a business traveler, I'd agree with you, even though many companies have Y-only policies, even for long haul. For a leisure traveler, not so much.

BA configures their 744s with 10-11% of the entire plane with WT+, or about 15% of the total WT/WT+ seats combined. If there was no value to BA in that, I doubt if the floor space allocated to the WT+ product would have lasted this long. With more airlines going to a tighter Y cabin in terms of space, the premium for Y+ looks better and better all the time (which might not be a simple coincidence) for those who can afford a bit more, but not 3-4x more for Business.

I also think that passenger mix has a lot to do with it—most likely the reason why airlines such as EK, who carry a lot of the VFR and blue collar foreign worker trade, haven't introduced a true Y+ product.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineCapEd388 From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 20187 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):

Yeah its Southwest, I think they are shots from the "Airline" show that they had on A&E a few years ago.

Yeah I agree, with what the article says. If the majority of travelers are demanding low fares, then tight seating configurations is what they will get. Its about people being cheap, as the article said, the majority of people asked would not pay a measly $25 for more legroom on a 4hr+ flight. The airlines would be more than willing to add wider seats and more legroom at a higher price, but who would buy those seats ? No one, because people would think that it is too expensive.

Also as the article mentioned, Americans are getting bigger and bigger. Can the airlines really be blamed, that a lot of their customers are getting bigger and outgrowing their seats?

If more people demand more legroom and pay the upgrade to "Economy Plus" and it becomes a growing trend, the airlines would see that and they would increase the size of their "Economy Plus Class" and before you know it, "Economy" is a thing of the past and the new norm is "Economy Plus". Obviously Im reaching here, but it could happen.

[Edited 2012-06-02 11:59:56]


388 346 77W 787
User currently onlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12875 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 20124 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
For a business traveler, I'd agree with you, even though many companies have Y-only policies, even for long haul. For a leisure traveler, not so much.

I fear my company will go Y-only soon.   However, at LAX, there is a growing 'silver set' group who will pay for J.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
I also think that passenger mix has a lot to do with it—most likely the reason why airlines such as EK, who carry a lot of the VFR and blue collar foreign worker trade, haven't introduced a true Y+ product.

I 100% agree. Certain cities will be far more likely to support a Y+. The issue is a wider seat increases the cost 12% or more. More legroom by about 10%. But then, higher fare classes tend towards lower load factors (and are partially filled with upgrades). So the fare increase is greater than the cost increase.

I suspect some airlines also use Y+ to cut the 'free upgrades' from Y.

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 11):
Its about people being cheap, as the article said, the majority of people asked would not pay a measly $25 for more legroom on a 4hr+ flight.

$25 won't pay for the legroom. Better to put in another row... About 3% more legroom requires a 10% higher fare. With internet search engines, how many people research the details of the seats to verify one airline is worth 10% more than another for leisure seats? For business, I know many who are loyal to an airline for seats and service. There is a reason FF miles are like crack...   Those who are hooked just have to have them.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinevlad1971 From Netherlands, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 20083 times:

According to survey made by my airline most important for pax :
1) price for the ticket
2) on time arrival to destination
3) Schedules
4) arrival of their baggage on time and undamaged
5) ease to check-in online and get boarding pass via web
6) possibility to collect miles for the future travel and upgrades
7) Leg space
8) meals and drinks ( BOB or free service )
9) entertainment on board
10) use of pre departure or arrival lounge

As you all see leg space , meals and IFE are not that important for the passengers . They just want to fly cheap , on time with their baggage and possibility to choose convenient schedules .


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20364 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 20013 times:

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 11):
If more people demand more legroom and pay the upgrade to "Economy Plus" and it becomes a growing trend, the airlines would see that and they would increase the size of their "Economy Plus Class"

For UA's long-haul fleet of 777s, that's exactly what's happened.

IPTE-configured 777s now have a mix of 104 Y+/117 Y, vs. 77 Y+/114 Y on the WW1 configuration and 84 Y+/114 Y on the WW2 configuration.

I'm honestly surprised that DL was so conservative with their initial allocation of Economy Comfort seats on their international fleet. The cabins range from a low of 30 on some planes to a high of 42 of the 744s, according to seatguru.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6380 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 19942 times:

Quoting phatfarmlines (Reply 7):

Its funny you say that. See, that lady in the next row in the middle seat is smiling because her row is full, so the guy can,t sit next to her. But the lady in the foreground is distressed looking because she,s got an empty seat next to her! 



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5311 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 19896 times:

The headline of this thread is like "Water is wet."

And we treat it as regrettable here on A.net. But I'm one of these travelers! Up to a point -- and that point is almost exactly where AA's new 777 coach seats are coming out -- I'm happy to endure cramped conditions for a few hours if I can get a cheaper ticket. I have better things to spend my money on than a few extra inches that won't matter at all in the long run.


User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 19899 times:

I think there is a reluctance to pay for upgrades after booking because there's a feeling like you're getting fleeced-- would any of those other airlines that matched the same fare have offered better comfort for free, or less? If the booking engines like kayak and expedia could make it clearer where you get a few inches more legroom and IFE and for exactly how much, some more people might take advantage at booking. "Oh, sure, I'll pay $50 for a seat farther up with more legroom versus a middle seat, that might be reasonable, but let me compare that to some other airlines. Maybe I can get it for $20..." Once booked though, it's more along the lines, of "no, I paid for the ticket, and that's it. They want *more* money for me to escape that middle seat? Screw 'em."

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20364 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 19693 times:

Quoting vlad1971 (Reply 13):
7) Leg space

If your airline is KLM, I'd be fairly shocked by this ranking, with the Dutch being the tallest population on Earth. 2" taller on average than Americans nowadays, the former record-holder.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinevlad1971 From Netherlands, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 19614 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 18):
If your airline is KLM, I'd be fairly shocked by this ranking, with the Dutch being the tallest population on Earth. 2" taller on average than Americans nowadays, the former record-holder

No, my airline is not an European carrier  


User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 19091 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):

I suspect some airlines also use Y+ to cut the 'free upgrades' from Y

...and many more to come! I suspect Y+ will take up some of the current J floor space on some airlines. The smaller J cabins with have a greater likelihood of being occupied by paying passengers. As someone mentioned,the internet created transparency in fares to allow consumers the ability to shop for the lowest fares where the purchase decision was sometimes decided by saving as few as $3 - $5. If one accepts that a seat is nothing more than a commodity,then it helps explain how we got to where we are today. Gone are the days when air travel seemed special and we wore our nicest clothes.


User currently offlinevatveng From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 951 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 19058 times:

Being someone of below-average height, my 5'6" frame (that's 1.67m for you metric folks) will easily fit into the smallest seat pitch in the sky. So, no, I will not pay extra for 2" of legroom I don't need.   


Visited VA,NC,PA,SC,FL,GA,OH,AL,TX,TN,CO,CA,UT,NV,NM,IN,KY,MD,MO,CT,MA,NH,ME.
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1624 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18902 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 20):
If one accepts that a seat is nothing more than a commodity,then it helps explain how we got to where we are today. Gone are the days when air travel seemed special and we wore our nicest clothes.

Bottom line for North Americans: deregulation happened. LONG GONE are the "Glory Days". People have to make the realization that yesterdays busses are todays airliners, period.



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 768 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18741 times:
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Nothing new here, and I personally see nothing wrong with this trend as long as airlines still provide a choice for people that want to travel with a higher class, more leg room, have a bigger seat, or have more amenities.

Heck they can squeeze 8 seats across in coach on a 737 as far as I'm concerned and hand out an ice cubes on a napikin for the people that want to pay less than what it actually takes to cover the costs of the flight. At the same time, you better make the experience worth the extra cost for those who are willing to pay for the better experience.

Now I certainly understand that some airlines choose not to do this (e.g. WN), some airlines choose to do a modified version of this (e.g. DL), and some airlines are still trying to keep a complete menu of options for their customers with F,J,Y+, and Y (e.g. UA. AA). Whether they can do it successfully is another question; however, as F cabins continue to shrink and become more exclusive - so should the level of service and amenities increase as well as the customer experience.


User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18720 times:

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 22):
Bottom line for North Americans: deregulation happened.

Forgot that's where is started. It's not all bad though,considering more of us can afford to travel by air. Problem is that it's gotten too much like riding a bus. I remember traveling across the country on a Greyhound bus in my younger years and recall some of the unsavory types one would meet,guess how they travel today?


25 LAXDESI : A 3 inch increase in legroom from 31"(Y) to 34"(Y+) takes up about 10% more cabin space(United 772 as per Seatguru). A 6 inch increase in legroom from
26 LAXintl : Btw - I don't believe calling passengers "Too Cheap" is right. Instead its simply the fact that people rightfully places a value on a product or servi
27 turn720 : I'm old enough to remember the glory days of pre-deregulation. Back then the if the average American wanted to travel they hopped on a Greyhound bus.
28 silentbob : Greyhound is usually more expensive than airfare lately.
29 BD338 : Count me in the 35% ...and in the 29% I'm glad I now have a choice. Many don't want it (but then complain about lack of room??) but some do and I'm g
30 spacecadet : The flipside to this thread is that a sizable percentage of people *will* pay extra for comfort. 35% is more than 1/3 of all passengers. Yet there are
31 m404 : I dislike the word cheap. America and the rest of the world has had to learn to live with reduced expectations for so many reasons. News stories keep
32 frmrCapCadet : My position entirely, comfort, not luxury. I still suspect that many airlines want Y to be enough torture to move those who can afford it to an expen
33 ANPlatinum : I recently had to travel for 6 hours on a long distance bus to a town that had no air service. The bus seats were far worse than Y class on any airlin
34 9252fly : They do have them in South America. Stewards to tuck you into seats that rival J with a blanket/pillow,serve you a meal/drink,turn on the entertainme
35 PHX787 : For me personally, I've set a particular budget and restraint on when I will use Y+ or when I'll stay in Y. 1) If the flight is longer than 8 hours. (
36 Post contains images spacecadet : And now you know why it's considered an insult when people say "flying these days is like taking a bus" I see you're from Australia so this might not
37 cpd : The schedules are terrible, the 'high speed' train goes faster in the metro area than in the country (rubbish tracks in the country areas - which mig
38 Post contains links Viscount724 : Red Arrow, a Canadian bus company operating between Calgary and Edmonton and other points in Alberta does offer what is comparable to airline busines
39 fiscal : The CNN survey never asked me..... I for one would pay extra for additional space, but some airlines like QF, and to a lesser degree BA, do take advan
40 strangr : I normally travel with others and will commonly request an aisle seat, that way during the trip you can spread your legs straight out ahead, normally
41 par13del : Do we know who decided that 30" pitch between seats should be a "standard" or the 17" seat width? Pricing today seems to be based on those two benchma
42 Post contains links and images rikkus67 : I've done both Greyhounds... View Large View MediumPhoto © John Yu ...........this was the more memorable trip. But other than going faster, not muc
43 cloudboy : Yet another case of bad survey design leading to misleading or totally invalid (pending on one's point of view of the survey design) results. How much
44 AeroWesty : That 727 really makes my head hurt. I know I knew about it, but my brain had successfully wiped it from the gray matter. The first decade or so of de
45 Skydrol : Bingo!!! This is exactly the problem. Imagine if online computer purchases were like this? You would have listings for HP, Dell, Acer, Toshiba, Sony,
46 stratosphere : Well I pay the extra for the upgrade on AirTran and actually I fly them enough to get free upgrades but now of course SWA f'd that up for me. So I don
47 ANPlatinum : Unfortunately, passenger trains no longer run to smaller towns. To rub it in, the bus is contracted to the railways who are obliged to provide a serv
48 manny : Wow...its really us. All this time I was thinking it was mismanagement of airline management that got the airlines to this shape!
49 vegas005 : My former company was acquired and the new company had a coach only policy...as a very frequent traveller including numerous 10+ hour flights I lasted
50 RWA380 : All I can say is most people today can't afford extras, and in many cases we have learned to do with less in some way or another. Since most people do
51 Post contains images 4tet : What do you consider 'Seat Pitch', A or B? ( I know the image is poorly drawn, but enough to understand... lol) Cheers, R.
52 StarGuy : B
53 Post contains images lightsaber : That would be me. Unless something breaks the commodity selling, that is what it will be. I would love more information on an airline search service.
54 4tet : Obviously what really matters to the passenger is the 'A' distance, not the 'B' one. I've seen seats that may be around 10cm thick on older airplanes,
55 ckfred : My father-in-law is a retired business professor, and he used to teach classes in and around Atlanta. So he would have Delta employees working on thei
56 Post contains images AwysBSB : Long gone indeed, as today these EA's mid 70's advertisements look like jokes: "All airlines fly at the same speed, but bad service can make a flight
57 AVLAirlineFreq : Sometimes it's not as much about being willing to pay extra as much as being able. Many companies have become brutal in scrutinizing what they conside
58 Post contains images PHX787 : the most ghetto drawing ever but to answer your question, definitely B.
59 AeroWesty : It was actually Alfred Kahn's idea to make airline travel a commodity, and Carter bought into it, ushering in the deregulated era. Kahn felt that the
60 frmrCapCadet : Actually the travel guides and even the hotel/motel do fairly accurate advertising. We generally can rely on the 1-5 star ratings to describe what we
61 ckfred : Actually, Kahn thought airlines would create service levels akin to what hotels had done, and what the Big 3 had done. GM was the epitome this, offer
62 Cubsrule : True. But time is money, so a carrier that was able to offer superior schedules PLUS a better product could likely get some of these folks' money. An
63 ckfred : You're right, and that proves my father-in-law's point. People will pay for higher prices, if they believe they get value that outweighs the price di
64 Post contains links AeroWesty : Hmm, not saying you're wrong, but I've always understood that Kahn believed that declining service was an indication that deregulation was a success.
65 ZKSUJ : Funny you say that, where I am it goes: 1) On time performance/Reliability 2) Scheduling 3) Price of ticket Thats what i'm told by the higher ups any
66 CompensateMe : [ Consumers tend to purchase the lowest-price ticket matching their needs; the legacies matched LCC pricing because they had to. The analogy to the ho
67 BMI727 : That's exactly what they do, just not in coach class. They put Motel 6, Holiday Inn, and Hilton all on the same plane at the same time in many cases.
68 Post contains images MaverickM11 : They have done this to an extent with first, business, and economy. And just as there may not be a Four Seasons in PIT, there is often no demand for
69 spacecadet : No... you are exactly the type of person I was talking about earlier. Nobody is saying what you're suggesting we're saying. But what *you* are saying
70 Post contains images AeroWesty : If airfares tracked the inflation rate between 1979, when fares were deregulated, until 2010, according to an online inflation calculator I used, a w
71 cloudboy : Correct. Matching their needs. That's where the airlines muddled things up. I am a passenger. Like most, I dont know all the gory details about legro
72 cloudboy : Actually, here's a way of looking at it. Take a standard iPhone. hold it flat in front of you. That is the difference in legroom you are trying to sel
73 aklrno : I often hear complaints that they keep making the seats in economy narrower, but IIRC all Boeing single aisle aircraft have had the same cabin width
74 Post contains images Skydrol : A funnier version of the photo at the top of this thread:
75 Revelation : Indeed. Interestingly enough, that extra room makes it more feasible for me to not spend the extra $50 per leg for four more inches, and I'm 6' 3" ta
76 Viscount724 : The early widebodies had wider seats, with 9-abreast (3-4-2) 747s and 8-abreast (2-4-2) DC-10s and L-1011s. However, by the mid to late 1970s when wh
77 YULWinterSkies : Correct. Yet, less legroom makes these seats feel narrower too, as there is more need for one's legs to be at times folded into some sort of uncomfor
78 Post contains links SonomaFlyer : The seats seem narrower to the average American because the average American is getting fat. http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html You couple tha
79 CompensateMe : Nothing I said was incorrect; I was very clear that premium economy appeals only to a niche market. Purchase trends and market research supports this
80 Revelation : One point is that VFR travellers will be a lot more likely to save the $50, yet people who travel a lot more often will be more likely to spring for
81 CompensateMe : VFR traffic is increasingly dominating the market. And frequent flyers are either seated in First Class or have complimentary access to the "premium"
82 ckfred : I looked for an article date and couldn't find one, but there is data going through 1992. So, I'm guessing that the article was written in the mid 19
83 YTZ : This is obvious news. And it's all why I've said that airlines should be deploying Y+ more often. It makes no sense not to have a product to offer pas
84 Viscount724 : That'd debatable and depends on the markets involved. Any type of Y+ product means reducing Y capacity, even if only by one row of seats. And you can
85 AeroWesty : WT+ is a popular class for using mileage upgrades to J using Avios. There are some scenarios that with the right distance of flight combined with hig
86 fiscal : That may be true on some routes, but it does not hold true on most long haul flights. My experience is that the load factors are always high. You mak
87 ipodguy7 : Have never tried Premuim Economy Before, but am excited to try it out on Virgin America and Qantas coming up in August (DFW-LAX-SYD-MEL, SYD-DFW) on V
88 Post contains images lightsaber : Too many buy off internet fares which, as already noted, do not detail the product. Holland-America does some really nice things for service from eve
89 Revelation : There was a radio ad in CT that would say "an educated consumer is our best customer". Maybe you remember it back in your Nutmeg State days? Interest
90 cloudboy : It looks like some people are getting confused again about Y+ versus Premium Y. Y+ (usually called Economy Comfort or something like that) refers to a
91 CompensateMe : But Economy Comfort, etc are variations of premium economy. Yes, the "perks" are generally limited to additional legroom and priority boarding (altho
92 MaverickM11 : Even if it did, and it's increasingly doing so, people wouldn't pay more.
93 Post contains links and images planemaker : At the other end of the spectrum on CNN we have... In-flight wish list: How would you make air travel fun? If you could wish for anything on a flight,
94 cloudboy : That's like saying both a Chevy Cruze 4 door and a BMW are upgrades to a 2 door Chevy Cruze. Yes, technically they are both upgrades, but one is a sm
95 cmf : Guess it is time for this discussion again. Some people will buy lowest price no matter what. Most people will buy best value. It is something that h
96 CompensateMe : Your analogy is too vague. A better analogy is comparing Delta's J cabin on the ex-NW WBC-configured 757 to the J cabin on SQ. The ex-NW is heavily i
97 Alias1024 : I'm the same. Leg room is not a big problem for me in coach. I'm not really interested in paying more for a couple inches of leg room. What I would b
98 planemaker : Great idea but airlines have tried that in the past. The issue for airlines with these good ideas is that they don't know if and when people would pa
99 Post contains images fiscal : I feel your pain and as a result I pick the aircraft rather than the schedule. I never fly in a 3 seater for any flight over 2 hours. You mention 4 h
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