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Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"  
User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 47340 times:

Flight global reports that Boeing is to firm B747-8i MoUs:

Quote: Boeing is confident it will convert the 30 commitments it has for the 747-8I passenger variant into firm orders, and also expects to secure near-term incremental sales for the stretched Jumbo.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ure-incremental-sales-soon-372588/

135 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7311 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 47268 times:

Fantastic news. No doubt this summers air show will be a winner for the 748i.


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2129 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 46975 times:

Great to see the queen coming back.

User currently offlinePEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 46933 times:

As much as I would love to see orders materialize for the 748i, I still lost all excitement for Boeing's statements like this. I will believe it when I see it. However I will be more than happy about it  


Peet7G
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 46578 times:

The 748 has one big advantage, short backlog and compared to the 744 decent economics.

User currently offlineby738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 45743 times:

Cathay ? China ? Transaero ?

User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2989 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 45594 times:
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Please!!!! Make it UNITED. I just can't imagine United as an all 2 hole airline! I know they have said NO 1000 times. But if Cher can win an Acadamy Award for best actress...anything can happen!

(and I love Cher)



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2840 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 45153 times:

Quoting by738 (Reply 5):
Cathay ? China ? Transaero ?
Quoting VC10er (Reply 6):
Please!!!! Make it UNITED.

It's in the article

Quote:
Boeing also holds memorandums of understanding (MoUs) for some 30 747-8Is from a mix of announced and undisclosed customers which include Air China (five), Transaero (four) and an undisclosed customer (15).

whereby 15 undisclosed customer seem to be the airframes for Hong Kong Airlines

Quoting VC10er (Reply 6):
I just can't imagine United as an all 2 hole airline!

   So soon you will join in with Cher singing "If I could turn back times"....  


User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 45012 times:

I bet some are for TK


You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineabba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1385 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 44116 times:

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 8):
I bet some are for TK


If 15 is for an undisclosed customer and there are 5 for Air China and 4 for Transaero then there must be 6 unaccounted for if they have MOUs for 30. TK is a good guess as they like to fly all available models (more or less)


User currently offlinemsp747 From United States of America, joined May 2010, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 43512 times:

This seems to be an update to orders we had all heard about before. I guess if they had not been firmed up, it is a good sign for Boeing. But it's not like they have orders pouring in from carriers some of us wish would order the 8I. CI, CX, UA, DL are not going to surprise us any time soon with big orders for the plane.

User currently offlinemd2012 From United States of America, joined May 2012, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 42965 times:

Great news for the queen of the sky. All these orders will ensure at least 50 years in the sky (since 1970). A fitting Golden Jubilee for this queen.

User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2840 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 42819 times:

Quoting msp747 (Reply 10):
I guess if they had not been firmed up, it is a good sign for Boeing.

I don't get this point. How can it be a good sign?


User currently offlinemsp747 From United States of America, joined May 2010, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 41902 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 12):
I don't get this point. How can it be a good sign?

I thought these were firm orders, but from what I am gathering from this article, they were not. However, if they are now (or soon will be) official firm orders, that is good news for Boeing and the 748's backlog. It is not good news for people who were hoping for a surge of new orders for the 748


User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 41826 times:

I hope Boeing isn't counting any of the potential orders from Chinese airlines. Those are not "done" until they are finalized. In my opinion, China appears to use commercial aircraft orders as geo-political tools so finalizing an order for Chinese airlines depends on which way the political winds are blowing.

User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 41838 times:
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If 747-8 commitments are like 737 MAX commitments, then carriers have paid Boeing to secure delivery positions so these should become firm orders once all the contract details have been worked out.


Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 18):
I hope Boeing isn't counting any of the potential orders from Chinese airlines.


Hong Kong Airlines is widely believed to be the airline behind the 15 UFOs and it Boeing looked to have planned to announce the order at Paris. However, it appears CAAC has yet to formally approve the deal (at which point they will likely be booked as UFOs as Boeing policy is not to announce a China order by customer until CAAC allocates the planes).

Boeing also believes Chinese carriers will be a major buyer of the 747-8.

[Edited 2012-06-04 07:00:09]

User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5225 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 41258 times:

Can someone refresh my memory on the timetable for ~ 5t reduction in weight and an upcoming PIP from GE.

User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 41123 times:
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Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 20):
Can someone refresh my memory on the timetable for ~ 5t reduction in weight and an upcoming PIP from GE.

Next year.


User currently offlinenimbus111 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 40953 times:

great to hear!! its a beautiful aircraft!! congrats


The more turbulence the marrier :-)
User currently offlinePanAm1971 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 40292 times:

I think we'll see more orders once the adjustments are made and the aircraft achieves the orginal operations specs. I've flown in every version of this amazing aircraft... and hope I'll get a chance to fly in this latest version. Can't wait!

User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1471 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 39576 times:

So, will Boeing firm up those MoUs before or after they finally tell us who bought all those mk. IV 737s? I believe even with the SW order there's still a few hundred unaccounted for, if Boeing's claim of having sold 1K+ is to be substantiated.

Just wondering ...



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10009 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 38970 times:

Interesting development for the 748i but to my knowledge from a legal point of view an MoU doesn't mean much as there is no obligation to actually exercise the order with an MoU. An airline can back out at any time if only an MoU is signed. Once the aircraft are actually ordered, that is a different story of course. The question is to what extend do MoU's lead to actual orders. How big of an indicator are MoU's for actual orders?

A388


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7311 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 38627 times:

Hong Kong airlines have no need for the 748 or the 380.


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 38312 times:
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Quoting A388 (Reply 25):
The question is to what extend do MoU's lead to actual orders.

Most MoUs become firm orders. Those that do not are most often due to finances - the airline that placed the MoU can't secure the financing to turn it into a firm order.

Sometimes, an MoU expires, but the airline later places an order when their finances are better. A case in point is W3 - they signed an MoU for four 747-8s back in May of 2008, but that MoU never became an order. Three years later, they signed a new order for two 747-8s.

Based on FlightBlogger noting that Air China may become the next 747-8 operator (before KE and W3), this makes me believe that a 747-8 commitment is like a 737 MAX commitment - more than an MoU, because an airline has cut Boeing a check to secure a production slot, but not yet a firm order.

So I personally am of the opinion that Boeing has deposits on at least 20 747-8s (15 for HX and 5 for CA) and perhaps 24 (UN) and therefore those are very likely to become firm orders.


User currently offlinefrmrCapCadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1744 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 37715 times:

Actually airlines have threatened or have backed out of orders up until the actualy time of delivery.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2840 posts, RR: 25
Reply 25, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 38548 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
So I personally am of the opinion that Boeing has deposits on at least 20 747-8s (15 for HX and 5 for CA)

Hmm, I always respect your opinion but for me it's hard to believe that in particular the future Chinese operators did already pay a single Dollar or did issue a bank guarentee.

Maybe the situation is different to the MAX, where short-tem production solts become rare very quickly.


User currently onlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4981 posts, RR: 40
Reply 26, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 38483 times:
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If these MoU are all converted it would be a very, very nice boost for the B747-8 program. More 4-holers in the sky is to always a good thing.  .

User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 27, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 39152 times:
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Quoting N14AZ (Reply 29):
Hmm, I always respect your opinion but for me it's hard to believe that in particular the future Chinese operators did already pay a single Dollar or did issue a bank guarentee.

The Chinese government (through CAAC) is the one who formally approves the orders and then assigns them to the airlines so I expect that if Boeing has been paid to assign production slots to HX or CA, those checks came from the Chinese government.

And with a production rate of only two per month and a backlog of ~80 planes (not counting those already completed), slots for the 747-8 are likely tight so an airline that wants a delivery in the near term would need to buy it's way into the line.


User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 803 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 38024 times:
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Quoting by738 (Reply 5):
Cathay ?

I think CX is on record as saying that any decision they make on the 748i will be after a thorough evaluation of their 748 cargo planes. Not sure if they've had them long enough to make a "thorough" evaluation.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 29, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 38012 times:
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Quoting crAAzy (Reply 32):
I think CX is on record as saying that any decision they make on the 748i will be after a thorough evaluation of their 748 cargo planes.


We've also heard comments that the 747-8 does not appear to be part of CX's fleet plans and that they look to be placing an order for the A380-800.


User currently offlinejreuschl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 552 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 38051 times:

Quoting abba (Reply 9):
Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 8):
I bet some are for TK


If 15 is for an undisclosed customer and there are 5 for Air China and 4 for Transaero then there must be 6 unaccounted for if they have MOUs for 30. TK is a good guess as they like to fly all available models (more or less)

Weren't there reports that TK was not completely happy with the 773 as it needed full cargo/too much plane in general for them?


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 31, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 35666 times:

Quoting msp747 (Reply 10):
CI, CX, UA, DL are not going to surprise us any time soon with big orders for the plane.

You could be right about that. But if any one of them decided to order the B-747-8I, and wanted them 30 months after the contract was signed, I think Boeing would do that.

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 13):
Guess a question for those UA 4 hole enthusiasts would be what would it cost UA to get out of the 25 a350 order to get to the b748....since the take is that UA is headed to single source airframe supplier down the road. They would get the 748 sooner by far but at what cost?


UA can sell their A-359 order/slots to another airline, thus will be out from under the contract. They could also sell the airplanes as they are delivered. For example US ordered 22 A-358/9s back in 2007, but won't take delivery of the first one until 2017 (10 years after placing the order). This will be an easy way for US to get out from under the A-358 and get all A-359s. The UA airplanes start being delivered (according to the contract) a year earlier in 2016. In addition to the 70 A-350s EK has on order, they have a MOU for another 30. They could take the remaining UA airplanes (3) and all of the US airplanes, allowing US to move up into the slots for UA.

I know its complicated, but 3 way deals like this have been done before, so it is not all that unusual.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 32):
Quoting by738 (Reply 5):Cathay ? I think CX is on record as saying that any decision they make on the 748i will be after a thorough evaluation of their 748 cargo planes.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
We've also heard comments that the 747-8 does not appear to be part of CX's fleet plans and that they look to be placing an order for the A380-800.

I would put those comments, Stitch, more under rumor than anything. CX has not committed to either the A-388 of the B-747-8I. CX has also said in the past, they might become an all twin jet airline (except for their carg ops). CX currently has 6 or 7 B-747-8Fs in its fleet (another 3-4 on order), so they should be getting good data on its operating costs, compared to its B-747-400F/ERFs. They already know the cost difference between operating the B-747-400F and the pax model B-747-400. So they should have very good data.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 32, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 34443 times:

Quoting LostSound (Reply 32):
I strongly believe UA will be taking their A350s. In fact, I think we'd more likely see them opt for the A350-1000 rather than the 748.

Now that UA has inherited a large management team from sCO that's been very loyal to Boeing, I could actually see 777-8X and 777-9X ordered instead of the 350-1000 (which is RR-only).

More and more airlines are discovering that 77W to 388 is a huge gap in the fleet, and having something in between would be optimal to adjust for seasonality nature of certain markets.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5225 posts, RR: 5
Reply 33, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 33653 times:

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 28):
I think CX is on record as saying that any decision they make on the 748i will be after a thorough evaluation of their 748 cargo planes.

To this would need to be added ; the progress of the weight reduction program and the GE PIP program. I would think they would want to see achieved results in both of these. How long they can wait is an open question.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20357 posts, RR: 59
Reply 34, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 33068 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 32):
Now that UA has inherited a large management team from sCO that's been very loyal to Boeing, I could actually see 777-8X and 777-9X ordered instead of the 350-1000 (which is RR-only).

Loyalty and a hundred million dollars or so will buy you a plane. UA will buy the best airframe after their bean counters have checked and triple-checked the numbers. Also, the airline is just too big to use a single supplier.

As for RR, CO has used RR on their 757 fleet and, AFAIK, they have been very happy with them.


User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 32727 times:

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 3):
lost all excitement for Boeing's statements like this. I will believe it when I see it. However I will be more than happy about it

What about for hints like this?.....   .

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...oeings-hint-on-new-747-stretc.html

Quote:
"Somewhere over the Atlantic, Lund was asked by journalists about the possibility of a '747-9' -- ergo, a new stretch of the 747-8, which itself is a 5.6m (18.4ft) stretch of the 747-400.

As Kingsley-Jones reported yesterday (for Pro subscribers only), Lund hinted such a project could follow the 777-8X/9X. Said Lund:

'The 747 could [be stretched], some day. Once in a while on the drawing board we toy with a few things, but it is not imminent. Boeing's product development priorities are to finish the 787-9, look at a 787-10X, the 737 Max and what to do with the 777. So the 747 [has to wait its] turn on the product development board - we need to wrap up and fly for a little while, while the other models are developed.'

Who knows? After another decade -- perhaps after the demise of Airbus A380 production -- there will be room for yet another stretch of the venerable 747."


Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 20):
Can someone refresh my memory on the timetable for ~ 5t reduction in weight and an upcoming PIP from GE.

Next year.

I guess ten years would be reasonable for something like hinted above.  



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2591 posts, RR: 13
Reply 36, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 32311 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
If 747-8 commitments are like 737 MAX commitments, then carriers have paid Boeing to secure delivery positions so these should become firm orders once all the contract details have been worked out
Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
So I personally am of the opinion that Boeing has deposits on at least 20 747-8s (15 for HX and 5 for CA) and perhaps 24 (UN) and therefore those are very likely to become firm orders

Just a question, if a deposit was paid for an MoU / "commitment", does the customer get [partially] refunded in case the deal for whatever reason falls through? And would that deposit be lower than that for a firm order?

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 26):
If these MoU are all converted it would be a very, very nice boost for the B747-8 program. More 4-holers in the sky is to always a good thing

Couldn't agree more!

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
UA can sell their A-359 order/slots to another airline, thus will be out from under the contract. They could also sell the airplanes as they are delivered. For example US ordered 22 A-358/9s back in 2007, but won't take delivery of the first one until 2017 (10 years after placing the order). This will be an easy way for US to get out from under the A-358 and get all A-359s. The UA airplanes start being delivered (according to the contract) a year earlier in 2016. In addition to the 70 A-350s EK has on order, they have a MOU for another 30. They could take the remaining UA airplanes (3) and all of the US airplanes, allowing US to move up into the slots for UA

Not sure of why this continous picking on the A350 . . . in a 747-8I thread . . . ? ?
So let's rephrase that a little for some balance and fun . . .   

UA can sell their 787 order/slots to another airline, thus will be out from under the contract. They could also sell the airplanes as they are delivered. For example DL ordered 18 787-8s back in 2005, but won't take delivery of the first one until 2020 (15 years after placing the order). This will be an easy way for DL to get out from under the 787-8 and get all A-359s. The UA airplanes start being delivered (according to the contract) a year earlier in 2016. In addition to the 30 787-8 QR has on order, they have a MOU for another 30. They could take the remaining UA airplanes and all of the DL airplanes, allowing DL to move up into the slots for UA .

PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10009 posts, RR: 15
Reply 37, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 32205 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
We've also heard comments that the 747-8 does not appear to be part of CX's fleet plans and that they look to be placing an order for the A380-800.

I would put those comments, Stitch, more under rumor than anything. CX has not committed to either the A-388 of the B-747-8I. CX has also said in the past, they might become an all twin jet airline (except for their carg ops).

I also read in the past that CX was reportedly interested in a stretched version of the A380 (-900) rather than the current model (A380-800). We just don't know what they want yet.

A388


User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 32081 times:

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 30):
Weren't there reports that TK was not completely happy with the 773 as it needed full cargo/too much plane in general for them?

I did not see that.
Last month I think, someone posted on Turkish Aviation forum saying that TK was looking to order more 77Ws and also 748i's. It was pure speculation however, I think where there is fire there is smoke  Turkish Aviation May 2012 (by TK787 May 1 2012 in Civil Aviation)#49



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2610 posts, RR: 7
Reply 39, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 31872 times:

I wonder in any of the six or so un-announced MOUs/commitments are for VIPs. If not, then six might be just about the right number for TK. Probably too few for the likes of CX, DL or UA. I'd heard talk that PR might be signing up for a small batch, maybe some are theirs?

User currently offlineplanejamie From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2011, 576 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 31723 times:

Quoting abba (Reply 9):
If 15 is for an undisclosed customer and there are 5 for Air China and 4 for Transaero then there must be 6 unaccounted for if they have MOUs for 30. TK is a good guess as they like to fly all available models (more or less)

Just to speculate (more of a dream really) that those 6 could be for BA? Think about it, they operate a small number of 77Ws and I know people are going on about how they'll just be 77W or A350 and A380 in the future, but given they are being slow at ordering/accepting 77Ws they could be playing the same tactics with the 748i... either that or IB to replace the A346 eventually (though I don't think they're ready for retirement any time soon)


User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 41, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 31124 times:

Or things are going to change dramatically ...or IB has and is going to have for years an 346/77W as the biggest airliner in size.

I'd love see an A380/B748I on Iberia colours. The problem is IB has two class of service, the typical standard Business Class and the plain and simple Coach Class. Opering any 747-8I or larger involves offer a lot of seats if your configuration don't have First Class or Y+ ...how many carriers which already are using both, A388 or B748I are offering just 2 class of service? None so far I know



Time flies! Enjoy life!
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 42, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29716 times:
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Quoting Devilfish (Reply 35):
What about for hints like this?

The 747X Stretch was to be almost 80m long and the 747-600X was to be 85m long, so taking the "747-9" to 80m or longer is clearly something Boeing feels is possible.

Quoting PW100 (Reply 36):
Just a question, if a deposit was paid for an MoU / "commitment", does the customer get [partially] refunded in case the deal for whatever reason falls through? And would that deposit be lower than that for a firm order?

I would imagine yes and yes.



Quoting planejamie (Reply 40):
Just to speculate (more of a dream really) that those 6 could be for BA?

It's been consistently said that BA's VLA RFP was a sole-source winner. As such, the only time you will see a 747-8 in BA colors is through their leased freighters.


User currently offlinecx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 43, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29310 times:

CX have said that they will have another look at ordering a VLA this year. There have been few clues from them as to which way they are leaning or whether they will actually order anything at all in that category however with the accelerated retirements of the 747-400s in the coming years I would imagine it is forcing them to have a closer look.

They have said in the past that cargo space on the A388 is not very impressive, a fact we know. Cargo is a big deal to CX and contributes strongly to our bottom line, especially in times when passenger yields are down. We know that the 748i has commonality with the 748F and CX have said last week that they "love" the 748F (Would not surprise me to see more of these ordered). Does it mean that they will also "love" the 748i? I'm not so sure.

I think neither of the A388 or 748i suit CX perfectly and anything they order is going to be a compromise on what is needed. At the same time you have the 777X which looks very interesting and the 777-9X may eat into 748i sales for any airline that operates a large fleet of 777s.

Futhermore, our aircraft purchasing manager was in Toulouse last month....

Who knows what they will order. Many of my colleagues believe the 380 and many of them the 748i.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 44, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 28771 times:
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Quoting cx flyboy (Reply 43):
They have said in the past that cargo space on the A388 is not very impressive, a fact we know.

Many bring forward the A380-900 for this reason, as it will offer additional LD3 spaces (looks to be 44). But if cargo is a big deal to CX, will they feel that a plane that can carry twice the passenger load as a 777-300ER, but only offer the cargo capacity of a single 777-300ER, impressive?


User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 27761 times:

How likely is the tiff between China and the EU over the emissions trading scheme to lead to some quick orders for the 748I, with cancellation or further postponement of the A380 orders? Is it a serious discussion that could benefit Boeing by default, or just posturing at this point? Again, might Airbus orders from other non-European carriers also be in jeopardy, with the 748I being the beneficiary?

Second question, admitting my ignorance: in a potential further upsizing of the 747, what would be more likely: extending the upper deck further aft, or a further stretch of the fuselage from nose to tail? Stretching the upper deck seems like it could have reduced re-engineering and an earlier EIS than stretching the entire airframe. Does increasing the upper deck passenger load capability have to be met with a corresponding belly-load expansion?



Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlinefrmrCapCadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1744 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 27369 times:

The US, Europe, China, Russia, and India are all big enough and with enough competing interests that tiffs are an ongoing issue. Who likes who? If you don't like the current scoreboard wait a couple months. It will all change.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 47, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 27101 times:
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Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 47):
How likely is the tiff between China and the EU over the emissions trading scheme to lead to some quick orders for the 748I, with cancellation or further postponement of the A380 orders?

China has approved HX's order for the A380-800, but has not yet approved HX's order for the 747-8, so...


User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2463 posts, RR: 1
Reply 48, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 26366 times:

WN is buying them to fly out of HOU to AKL!!!!!   



All joking aside, I am happy for Boeing and the 747! I hope it is for a US major (    United!!!    ). May the 747 keep flying for another almost-half-century, and many many more!!!!!         



A landing EVERYONE can walk away from, is a good landing.
User currently offlinemal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 25169 times:

QF will buy 15 frames, as they realised that the 380 is to big, the 380 will be leased to BA for 15 years like they did in reverse with the 763 that BA no longer needed. Giving BA the lift it needs on its US routes ,maybe thats why BA only ordered 12 whale jets

Far fetched but hey who knows who is buying until released by Boeing or the airlines them selves


Mal787   



BN2 Metro, 402,404, Conquest, king air, 707,727.200, 732,733,734,735,736,738,757,762,763,742,743,744, MD11, DC9,Westwind
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1940 posts, RR: 8
Reply 50, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 22013 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 35):
Who knows? After another decade -- perhaps after the demise of Airbus A380 production -- there will be room for yet another stretch of the venerable 747."

You do realise that that part of your qoute is the personal opinion from the Flightblogger, not from Boeing's Lund?

Now it looks like Boeing is saying it is anticipating the A380 demise and that a stretch is likely...

Cheers!   



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 21933 times:

Quoting Chiad (Thread starter):
and also expects to secure near-term incremental sales for the stretched Jumbo

The choice of airlines who could make an incremental purchase isn't long. So they speak with LH or KE?


User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 52, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 21470 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 53):
So they speak with LH or KE?

I would say LH, they seem very pleased and I have the opinion they make an even bigger fuzz with the introduction of the 747-8I as they did back then with the A380.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7693 posts, RR: 8
Reply 53, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 21365 times:

Quoting PW100 (Reply 36):
So let's rephrase that a little for some balance and fun . . .

No need to do it for fun, you appear to understand exactly how the process works, no one ever said it applied only to one vendor and one a/c.


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 21161 times:

So what is the difference in cargo between the A380 and the 748i? The A380 should be able to carry more weight? The 777 seems to be the best cargo option of the 3 frames?

As a pure cargo aircraft, will it be the only out sized cargo freighter in the future? It can load very strange objects the 77F cant.

Get more weight off the current 748 and keep the MTOW, put the 777X generation engines on it, modernize its systems. If it could fly 140t as far as the 77F can fly 103t it would be a winner.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 55, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 21080 times:

Isn't the GENX-2 an engine of the 777X generation - or is there any idea for the 777X engines that is not in the GENX but raw size?

User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 20828 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 55):
Isn't the GENX-2 an engine of the 777X generation - or is there any idea for the 777X engines that is not in the GENX but raw size?

I think the 777X will get engines with LEAPX technology. It would probably be a mix of LEAP and genX.

A 748 refresh wouldn´t come in the next 10 years anyway. Engine tech should evolve past the current anyway.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 57, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 20736 times:
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Quoting sweair (Reply 54):
So what is the difference in cargo between the A380 and the 748i?

The 747-8 has less hold space, however it carries less passengers so in the end, it offers more available space for cargo.



Quoting sweair (Reply 54):
The 777 seems to be the best cargo option of the 3 frames?

In term of volume, yes and by a significant amount. It carries less passengers than a 747-8 and offers almost 50% more cargo space.


User currently offlinedennys From France, joined May 2001, 901 posts, RR: 1
Reply 58, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 20096 times:

Quoting msp747 (Reply 10):

We've also heard comments that the 747-8 does not appear to be part of CX's fleet plans and that they look to be placing an order for the A380-800.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 29):

as CX was counting on the A389 , and as Airbus does not seem to launch his Whale Jet -900 , i go for CX to order the 747-8I !

The more 748I shall BE built , the happiest fan i shall BE !
Thanks Boeing since 1969 !!


User currently offlineanfromme From Ireland, joined Feb 2012, 478 posts, RR: 11
Reply 59, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 19768 times:

Quoting dennys (Reply 58):
as CX was counting on the A389 , and as Airbus does not seem to launch his Whale Jet -900 , i go for CX to order the 747-8I !

As was mentioned before - comments from inside CX seem to indicate that the 747-8i isn't part of CX fleet plans. Which of course doesn't mean that they're going to order A380-800. Personally, I have a feeling that they will, but it is a real possibility that they may not order either.



Flown on: A300B4, A310-200/-300, A319, A320-100/-200, A321-200, A330-200, A340-500/-600, A380-800, An-24, An-26, ATR42,
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2591 posts, RR: 13
Reply 60, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 19752 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 47):
Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 47):
How likely is the tiff between China and the EU over the emissions trading scheme to lead to some quick orders for the 748I, with cancellation or further postponement of the A380 orders?

China has approved HX's order for the A380-800, but has not yet approved HX's order for the 747-8, so...

Not to mention that any political struggles between EU and China would probably be evenly balanced out by the USA - China struggles around military support to Taiwan . . .
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-mandates-taiwan-f-16-sale-372084/
http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...ngly-Condemns-U-S-Taiwan-F-16-Deal

Quoting columba (Reply 52):
No need to do it for fun, you appear to understand exactly how the process works, no one ever said it applied only to one vendor and one a/c.

Fully agree on most points. Just wonder if that also applies to the poster which I tried to had some fun with . . .

Cheers,
PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlinemcg From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 19698 times:

How many 748's will Boeing need to sell to recover their investment in the project?

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20357 posts, RR: 59
Reply 62, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 19713 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 45):
Do Americans not get why this expression is somewhat....inappropriate?
Quoting col (Reply 46):
And you guys nip out for a quick fag. Lets call it even.

Not to mention the fact that you eat bangers and mash... Most Americans wouldn't even want to SEE your bangers and mash!  

Then there were AA and DL, who operated a mixed fleet of 2-holers AND 3-holers.   

Quoting sweair (Reply 56):

I think the 777X will get engines with LEAPX technology. It would probably be a mix of LEAP and genX.

I believe GE said it would be the GE-90X or something like that. It will involve more GEnX technology. There might be LEAP elements (CMC's, etc.) but mostly a scale-up and optimization of GEnX.

Quoting mcg (Reply 61):
How many 748's will Boeing need to sell to recover their investment in the project?

Lord knows, but the 748i can't have been that expensive, given that they were going to develop the 748 freigher, anyway. Most of the 748i development costs would have been sunk into the 748 program. The big 748i-specific expense would have been the extended upper deck. The rest of the airframe is essentially identical to the 748f.


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2470 posts, RR: 1
Reply 63, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 19477 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 35):
perhaps after the demise of Airbus A380 production

That's rather disappointing to hear. Unless Boeing is expecting the A380 program to implode within the next 5-10 years, this says that Y3 is nowhere on the radar.

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 35):
... there will be room for yet another stretch of the venerable 747.

With regards to rotation, I thought the aft-main gear stretch of the 748 was already at the limits.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 64, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 19484 times:
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Quoting DocLightning (Reply 62):
Lord knows, but the 748i can't have been that expensive, given that they were going to develop the 748 freigher, anyway.

They spent at least $300 million on the 747-8 above and beyond what they spent on the 747-8F. I've heard some analysts say the 747-8 program ran north of $4 billion.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20357 posts, RR: 59
Reply 65, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 19309 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 64):
They spent at least $300 million on the 747-8 above and beyond what they spent on the 747-8F. I've heard some analysts say the 747-8 program ran north of $4 billion.

Let's suppose that the 7478i itself cost $300M in addition to the $4B that the entire program cost. Let's suppose that they sell them at $100M/frame (which is a low estimate). That's 43 frames, total, that they need to sell.


User currently offlinePHXA340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 906 posts, RR: 1
Reply 66, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 19250 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 65):
That's 43 frames, total, that they need to sell.

They will need way more than that , not every dollar they record from a sale is a profit , most goes to materials and labor etc ...

I see the 747-8 program possibly turning into a profitable program if the freighter version picks up more orders. Unfortunately I don't see a long term viable life for the 'I' with the exception of a few carriers even though Boeing originally stated the passenger version would do better than the freighter - I see the opposite happening.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 67, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 19283 times:

Why does United canceling a plane they clearly want come up in every single 747 thread?

Get over it.

NS


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5793 posts, RR: 28
Reply 68, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18921 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 67):
Why does United canceling a plane they clearly want come up in every single 747 thread?

It's beyond bizarre. Frankly, as much as I'd love to see the 748i soldier on, I'd prefer to see the A359 in the United fleet first. It will be much more useful in the fleet than a VLA.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinejustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1065 posts, RR: 1
Reply 69, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18874 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 65):
Let's suppose that the 7478i itself cost $300M in addition to the $4B that the entire program cost. Let's suppose that they sell them at $100M/frame (which is a low estimate). That's 43 frames, total, that they need to sell.

Profit is probably closer to about $15-20 million a frame, which gets to the 250 plus range to break even, about the numbers Boeing has been throwing about. They are a little under 1/2 way there. I imagine they'll get there.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 70, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 18745 times:

Quoting mcg (Reply 61):
How many 748's will Boeing need to sell to recover their investment in the project?

All we know is that Boeing had to take a charge because production costs were not covered by the accounting block. This is of course for both 747-8 models. Also, since the production costs are not covered none of the R&D costs have been recovered. On the other hand they have already been expensed. Delays are costly  

[Edited 2012-06-05 17:23:39]

User currently offlinenomorerjs From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 18622 times:

I would guess quite few are coming from China as a targeted response to the EUs carbon emisson plan. I could be wrong and it could be on the merits of the plane, but I fear politics is playing an influence in more aircraft orders than we would like to think.

User currently offlinePHXA340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 906 posts, RR: 1
Reply 72, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18590 times:

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 71):
but I fear politics is playing an influence in more aircraft orders than we would like to think.

As is the case with many aircraft orders , what some A.netters seem to forget is Boeing isn't the only beneficiary from Politics , Airbus has also racked up orders due to Politics.

You also seem to imply the 747-8i is a dog , while no A380 or 77W , as many members with strong product knowledge, it definitely serves a niche that some airlines want.


User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1471 posts, RR: 3
Reply 73, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18526 times:

Speaking off, the cover page on flightglobal.com has several articles about the aircraft.

In very broad details:

- Next PIP (engines, FMC, weight reduction, tail-tank re-activation) due in 2014, should bring a/c to within contract performance
- PIP should bring CASM down to 77W levels

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...y-close-to-brochure-boeing-372591/

On their story on the first LH service to IAD, one can learn the following

- Payload of 50 tons with 313 pax indicates cargo load just shy of 20 tons (no underload information, therefore no way of knowing how "full" the flight was)
- Cruise speed around 0.845
- Burn is roughly 10T/hour (80 tons for a 07:58 flight)

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...mooth-debut-with-lufthansa-372589/

[Edited 2012-06-05 17:58:32]


From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlinenomorerjs From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18465 times:

I'm not implying Boeing is a dog. I'm a born and raised Chicagoan and huge B supporter (ask others here and check past posts), but am giving A the benefit of the doubt as I turn gray and try to be more fair. I would love to see the 748i kick the shit out of A, but want to be objective.

User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10251 posts, RR: 97
Reply 75, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17742 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 63):
Quoting Devilfish (Reply 35):perhaps after the demise of Airbus A380 production
That's rather disappointing to hear. Unless Boeing is expecting the A380 program to implode within the next 5-10 years, this says that Y3 is nowhere on the radar.

Waiting another 25-30 years to launch a further 747 stretch that they couldn't sell 15 years ago sounds a bit implausible to me. Never say never, I guess..

I'm not sure I quite understand how the comment about a 747 stretch relates to Y3 though.

Funnily enough, from my seat, the 777X feels like Y3 with an aluminium fuselage, and admit to being somewhat puzzled why we're not seeing the full Y3 monty, when so much of what it might be is being discussed for the 777X.

If anything, the 777X is what will delay Y3 in my book, not a 747X, or the continued production of the A380.

Mind you, 4 1/2 years on, A380 production still has yet to "explode", never mind "implode"  

Rgds


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 3020 posts, RR: 2
Reply 76, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17559 times:

Quoting mal787 (Reply 49):
QF will buy 15 frames, as they realised that the 380 is to big

If anything, the A380 isn't big enough for QF. I'd fully expect them to convert some of their aircraft arriving later this decade to the -900 if it materialises.

They've only deferred them because they need less aircraft overall, not because they need smaller aircraft.


User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1912 posts, RR: 4
Reply 77, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17611 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 67):
Why does United canceling a plane they clearly want come up in every single 747 thread?

Get over it.
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 68):
It's beyond bizarre. Frankly, as much as I'd love to see the 748i soldier on, I'd prefer to see the A359 in the United fleet first. It will be much more useful in the fleet than a VLA.

All of these comments originate from well-known a.net Airbus bashers. I wouldn't pay a dime of attention to them, nor would I take them seriously.

UA cancelling its A350 order is those people's wet dream.



Now get your f***ing Jumbo Jet off my airport!!! - AC/DC "Ain't No Fun To Be a Millionaire"
User currently offlinemal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 17312 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 76):
not because they need smaller aircraft.

It was only a tounge in cheek remark. not to be taken seriously

Mal787



BN2 Metro, 402,404, Conquest, king air, 707,727.200, 732,733,734,735,736,738,757,762,763,742,743,744, MD11, DC9,Westwind
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 3020 posts, RR: 2
Reply 79, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 17093 times:

Quoting mal787 (Reply 78):
It was only a tounge in cheek remark. not to be taken seriously

Oops, sorry!  


User currently offline707lvr From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 585 posts, RR: 2
Reply 80, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16949 times:

Several posts questioning Boeing's credibility on its orders. I've been following Boeing for a very long time and this has never been an issue. Quite the opposite in fact.

User currently offlineebj1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 81, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16764 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 67):
Why does United canceling a plane they clearly want come up in every single 747 thread?

It might be that many a.netters don't believe the airline can have both, given how very expensive modern airliners are. But then, most of us don't know anything about how airlines finance their new purchases and we don't have an inside track regarding what a major airline's plans for the future are either. The "they'll buy this and cancel that" is most likely speculation and little more.



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2694 posts, RR: 5
Reply 82, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 16479 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting anfromme (Reply 59):
As was mentioned before - comments from inside CX seem to indicate that the 747-8i isn't part of CX fleet plans.

It has also been mentioned before from someone inside CX that there are rumours that the 747-8i is the preferred aircraft due to its advantage in cargo carrying capabilities.

The bottom line is that we won't know until they do make the order, so dismissing it from the realm of possibility is a bit premature.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 83, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16291 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 82):
It has also been mentioned before from someone inside CX that there are rumours that the 747-8i is the preferred aircraft due to its advantage in cargo carrying capabilities.

Also fleet commonality with their existing 747-8F fleet might be an advantage for the 747-8I, I guess.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15996 times:

The 748i has one big advantage, short backlog. Otherwise the 380 wins most aspects. As a freighter it is one of a kind and nothing could replace it really, sure the 77F is good but you wont fit all stuff into it that the 748 can carry.

When the 747 is no more some cargo have to go on more expensive An124 flights. Or the Y3 will have a nose door for its freighter variant. Its such a nice feature to have on a freighter.


User currently offlineabba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1385 posts, RR: 2
Reply 85, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15443 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 82):
It has also been mentioned before from someone inside CX that there are rumours that the 747-8i is the preferred aircraft due to its advantage in cargo carrying capabilities.



I shall not deny that this has also been said. However, that seems very much to be the minority view from inside CX...


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 86, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15390 times:
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Quoting abba (Reply 85):
However, that seems very much to be the minority view from inside CX...

I believe we have heard one CX employee say "yes" and one CX employee say "no" about the prospects of the 747-8 in the fleet.


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15272 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 86):
I believe we have heard one CX employee say "yes" and one CX employee say "no" about the prospects of the 747-8 in the fleet.

Who to believe? I know one is rather negative towards B and the other is rather positive.


User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 88, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 14947 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 87):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 86):
I believe we have heard one CX employee say "yes" and one CX employee say "no" about the prospects of the 747-8 in the fleet.

Who to believe? I know one is rather negative towards B and the other is rather positive.

Am I the one who is positive towards B? If so, I didn't say it was a yes for the 748i! I think it is a hard call to be honest as neither aircraft are exactly what the airline wants. If I had to bet I would personally say the 380 has a slightly higher chance, especially if CX wants to introduce one of these super first-class types of cabin seen on A380s with our competitiors. However thats just personal feeling and obviously nothing official.


User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 89, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14724 times:

Instead of starting a new thread, I'm going to post this here... While reading a write up from the first flight by airline reporter, this person said that Boeing said on the flight that they had recieved interest from some US airlines.  
Quote:
Lufthansa is planning on taking delivery of four more Intercontinentals before the end of the year and Boeing has stated on the flight there are other airlines (even ones in the US) that are showing interest in the 747-8.
http://www.airlinereporter.com/2012/...continental-flight-with-lufthansa/



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently online2175301 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14588 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 84):
When the 747 is no more some cargo have to go on more expensive An124 flights. Or the Y3 will have a nose door for its freighter variant. Its such a nice feature to have on a freighter.

I doubt that the AN124's will exist by the time the 747F is no more.

Honestly, I think there is a fair chance that the 747F may remain in production for decades, even if only 6 - 10 frames per year; just because it can do some things that no other airplane is likely to be able to do.

Have a great day,


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2694 posts, RR: 5
Reply 91, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 14260 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting abba (Reply 85):
However, that seems very much to be the minority view from inside CX...

Unless you have contacts within the airline, how would you know that?

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 88):
Am I the one who is positive towards B? If so, I didn't say it was a yes for the 748i!

When I made the comment that there are rumours that the 747-8i is the preferred aircraft due to its cargo advantage, I was actually referring to your post in another thread in which you said:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 62):
There are plenty of rumours amongst the pilot group here that the 748i is actually the preferred machine by our managemenent, partly because of the lack of cargo capacity of the A380.

I understand that they are no more than rumours and should be taken as such, but I believe that until CX have officially (and publicly) ruled out the 747-8i themselves, I'd think it's rather premature to dismiss it off hand.

I understand also that things change over time, but I haven't heard any changes in the rumour mill recently - at least, none that have been corroborated by several staff members.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 92, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14171 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 91):
I understand that they are no more than rumours and should be taken as such, but I believe that until CX have officially (and publicly) ruled out the 747-8i themselves, I'd think it's rather premature to dismiss it off hand.

I understand also that things change over time, but I haven't heard any changes in the rumour mill recently - at least, none that have been corroborated by several staff members.

Latest I have heard today from one of our managers is that the 748i as it is, in CX configuration and routes, would offer yields per seat more than that of our current 77Ws. He reiterated the issues we have all heard about CX and the A380 and said it was in his opinion that the 380 is not suited to our really long haul flights and that it was unlikely the 380 would be purchased only for the LHR route, which is the only route where it could be put to good use. He said that at the moment nothing beats the 77Ws in service with CX and that we, along with EK were the two biggest drivers behind the 777X project and if the stretched 777X offers figures even better than the 77W, then it would be highly likely that apart from the 748F fleet, we would become a 'twin' airline.

Also interesting was that we are looking closely at the 787-1000 as a replacement for the 777-200s, 777-300s and A330s as a regional aircraft, as the A350s and 77Ws are suited more to long haul flying with their configuration and heavier empty weights.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 93, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14086 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 92):
He said that at the moment nothing beats the 77Ws in service with CX and that we, along with EK were the two biggest drivers behind the 777X project and if the stretched 777X offers figures even better than the 77W, then it would be highly likely that apart from the 748F fleet, we would become a 'twin' airline.

Likely a 777X wont be in service before 2020. So CX wont have a plane to compete comfortwise with the A380 forever? The 77W is a very efficient plane, but inferior than the A380 to passengers. And by 2020 you can be absolutely sure that there will a A380 version in the works which will beat the X by a margin. And possibly a A350-1000 which is more efficient too. CX must buy a VLA I am sure or it wont be counted among the very top anymore.


User currently onlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4981 posts, RR: 40
Reply 94, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 13938 times:
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Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 92):
we would become a 'twin' airline

That would be unfortunate imho. But if that is what suits the business model of CX best, then they should go for it.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 92):
CX and the A380 and said it was in his opinion that the 380 is not suited to our really long haul flights

I find that hard to believe, unless he is hinting at the relatively small cargo hold the A380 has left if the sold out passenger section causes a need for so much space to carry the passengers luggage.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 3020 posts, RR: 2
Reply 95, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 13886 times:

Quoting na (Reply 93):
CX must buy a VLA I am sure or it wont be counted among the very top anymore.

EK's largest plane for a long time was the 77W (and before that the 773), top airlines like QR, EY, NZ etc all have the 77W as their largest aircraft.

The size of the plane doesn't define the product inside or the service the airline offers... It's more important to have the right planes for your network/traffic than to simply buy a VLA for the image it brings with it.


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2694 posts, RR: 5
Reply 96, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 13836 times:
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Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 92):

Thank you for the update.

Quoting na (Reply 93):
So CX wont have a plane to compete comfortwise with the A380 forever? The 77W is a very efficient plane, but inferior than the A380 to passengers.

 

That's a matter of opinion. Whether an aircraft is "comfortable" or not depends more on the airline's configuration than the aircraft itself.

Quoting na (Reply 93):
CX must buy a VLA I am sure or it wont be counted among the very top anymore.

Now that's just silly. Quad-engined VLAs aren't suited to every airline. There are some airlines for whom quad VLAs don't fit into their structure. Whether an airline is one of the 'top' airlines of the world isn't judged by what type of aircraft they have, but by their profits. CX are one of the continually profitable airlines and has a 5-star SkyTrax rating.

Nevertheless, the 777-9X is, in its own right, very much a VLA, so it's fair to say that a VLA is in CX's future plans, just not right now.

I still hope that the 747-8i will find its way into CX's fleet somehow, but even if it does, I can't see it being any more than a stop-gap solution until the 777-9X arrives in 2019.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 94):
That would be unfortunate imho.

Nothing unfortunate about it. It's progress. When a twin-jet can do the job of a jet with more than two engines, it makes little sense to buy the quad. There is a parallel in the car industry as it moves from large capacity engines to smaller capacity turbos. Progress in the name of efficiency is a good thing. It is a good thing that technology has advanced to such an extent that such a large aircraft can now be powered by only two engines.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently onlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4981 posts, RR: 40
Reply 97, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 13795 times:
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Quoting CXB77L (Reply 96):
Whether an aircraft is "comfortable" or not depends more on the airline's configuration than the aircraft itself.

It is mix where the aircraft factors are more important then the configuration imho. Seating quality, if available space is a factor, is unsurpassed in the A380. As are noise levels and flight stability imho.  .


User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 98, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 13759 times:

Exactly. What matters is profit since CX is a business and a very successful one at that. They do not always do what other airlines are doing yet we win countless awards, have an excellent safety record and are the envy of many many airlines around the world. In the big picture, no matter whether they choose the 748i, 380 or neither, I am pretty sure they know what they are doing.

Having a 380 may be prestigious but prestige doesn't make money and CX have never been an airline to show off in that way for the sake of it. Any decision will be made with profits in mind and only that.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7185 posts, RR: 46
Reply 99, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13412 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 92):
Latest I have heard today from one of our managers is that the 748i as it is, in CX configuration and routes, would offer yields per seat more than that of our current 77Ws.
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 92):
He said that at the moment nothing beats the 77Ws in service with CX

I am a bit confused; the first quote seems to say that the 748i would beat the 77W and the second quote says that nothing beats the 77W; is the 748i a subset of nothing, am I misreading it, or is it a misquote?   



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1715 posts, RR: 1
Reply 100, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13275 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 92):
Also interesting was that we are looking closely at the 787-1000 as a replacement for the 777-200s, 777-300s and A330s as a regional aircraft, as the A350s and 77Ws are suited more to long haul flying with their configuration and heavier empty weights.

Interesting to hear indeed. The list of airlines looking closely at the 787-10 is growing   However, I thought one of your colleagues here said one of the determining factors in choosing the A350 over the 787 was that the 787 couldn't fit the standard CX Y-seat 9 abreast?   Or are there different Y standards for regional routes?
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 99):
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 92):Latest I have heard today from one of our managers is that the 748i as it is, in CX configuration and routes, would offer yields per seat more than that of our current 77Ws.Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 92):He said that at the moment nothing beats the 77Ws in service with CX
I am a bit confused; the first quote seems to say that the 748i would beat the 77W and the second quote says that nothing beats the 77W; is the 748i a subset of nothing, am I misreading it, or is it a misquote?

Well, the 748i is not in service with CX (yet    ) and the 77W is  



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 101, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13205 times:

I am still sceptical of the same wing on the 788,789 and 7810, at least one model must have a suboptimal wing?

User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2591 posts, RR: 13
Reply 102, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 13412 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 101):
I am still sceptical of the same wing on the 788,789 and 7810, at least one model must have a suboptimal wing?


I tend to believe that the 788 wing was really designed with the optimum somewhere between the 788 and the 789, probably quite close to the 789. The 7810 will suffer in that it will not have the legs of the 788 and 789, but when using for a different mission (upto around 5000 nm max) the wing should be pretty close to perfect for the 7810.

Remember, the 7810 will have weights pretty close to or even equal to the 789. It will sacrifice fuel load for extra structure and mainly payload weight. It will be a super 333, and selling a lot more since it will be a lot more efficient. Question is really, when does Boeing have the resources availble to develop it, as they also have some 737 work, and 777 work on their plate for the next 5 to 8 years (not to mention current 788 woes and 789 development, and some dreaming 748 stretch . . .  ).

Rgds,
PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5225 posts, RR: 5
Reply 103, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 13389 times:

Quoting na (Reply 93):
The 77W is a very efficient plane, but inferior than the A380 to passengers.

In my view CX has demonstrated the ability to keep the flying experience with them attractive to their customers irrespective of the type of aircraft. This experience is much more than one type compared to another.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 104, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 13419 times:
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Quoting na (Reply 93):
Likely a 777X wont be in service before 2020. So CX wont have a plane to compete comfortwise with the A380 forever?

CX supposedly wants a similar experience across all their aircraft so that passengers transitioning between an A330 | A350 | 777 | 747 don't really notice. One of the reasons the 787 was eliminated was because it offered the smallest seat width in CX's fleet. So you could argue that the A380, with it's wider seats, would be undesirable because passengers on it would find the experience better than on the rest of CX's fleet.   


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7185 posts, RR: 46
Reply 105, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13246 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 101):
I am still sceptical of the same wing on the 788,789 and 7810, at least one model must have a suboptimal wing?

The sizing of the wing is quite complicated. Larger area means lower wing loading, which translates into lower landing and takeoff speed, and reduced induced drag. However, it also means higher weight, and if the area is achieved by making the wing wider instead of longer (lower aspect ration) it increases induced drag. Parasitic drag will increase with larger wetted area, regardless of the configuration. It appears that long range aircraft benefit most from larger wings, as they spend much more time at high altitude where the reduced induced drag is far more important than the increased weight and parasitic drag. Short range aircraft seem to do better with a smaller wing. With the 787 family the 788 and 789 are configured for long range, and the 7810 for medium range. In order to make the 7810 equal the range of the smaller models would require considerably more MTOW, which in turn would require heavier landing gear and more powerful engines. Neither of these were in the plans for the 787. Interestingly Airbus originally had the same plans for the A350, but decided to change horses midstream and make the A3510 more capable so as to challenge the 77W; and this has so far gone over like a turd in a punchbowl with the customers. We will see which approach works better; certainly A333 sales show that there is a definite market for a medium range widebody.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 106, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12770 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 99):
Latest I have heard today from one of our managers is that the 748i as it is, in CX configuration and routes, would offer yields per seat more than that of our current 77Ws.

Sorry for being confusing! I meant that the manager said that the figures for the 748i were not as good as the 77W.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7185 posts, RR: 46
Reply 107, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12737 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 106):
Sorry for being confusing! I meant that the manager said that the figures for the 748i were not as good as the 77W.

OK, that makes more sense, and it certainly confirms rumors that the 748i is off the table. It would be silly to buy a larger plane that cost more per seat to fly.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7311 posts, RR: 57
Reply 108, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12726 times:

I noticed a 748i illuminated bill board on the entrance to HKG yesterday- Boeing thanking CX cargo for being a wonderful customer. Sorry - too quick to take a photo.


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 109, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12609 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 108):
I noticed a 748i illuminated bill board on the entrance to HKG yesterday- Boeing thanking CX cargo for being a wonderful customer. Sorry - too quick to take a photo.

Cathay "Loves" the 748F. (Their words not mine!). Does the love translate to the 748i? Maybe after the PIP? Who knows.
There are too many variables to make a call on what the final decision would be.


User currently offlinedavs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 110, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12497 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
UA can sell their A-359 order/slots to another airline, thus will be out from under the contract. They could also sell the airplanes as they are delivered. For example US ordered 22 A-358/9s back in 2007, but won't take delivery of the first one until 2017 (10 years after placing the order). This will be an easy way for US to get out from under the A-358 and get all A-359s.

I keep seeing this post made, but have yet to see a good reason why UA would do this from a financial perspective, or any indication from UA itself that this is their plan. The fact that UA is replacing their 744's with 359's should scream loudly, "we don't need 350+ capacity planes in our fleet!" If they did, wouldn't they have already ordered the 77W? UA are clearly not of the opinion they need any frames bigger than the A359, so the 748i should be irrelevant in their future plans as a result. The 359 will be their largest wide-body, and it will be the most efficient plane at that size, so there's no reason for them to explore any other option IMO.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 65):
Let's suppose that the 7478i itself cost $300M in addition to the $4B that the entire program cost. Let's suppose that they sell them at $100M/frame (which is a low estimate). That's 43 frames, total, that they need to sell.

I think the 748 will pay for itself, whatever the number of frames they need to sell do so. I don't see the 748i contributing much to their efforts, but it doesn't matter. The freighter is basically un-rivaled in the highest payload market segment, and it will sell plenty during the next 10-20 years if only for this reason.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 75):
Funnily enough, from my seat, the 777X feels like Y3 with an aluminium fuselage, and admit to being somewhat puzzled why we're not seeing the full Y3 monty, when so much of what it might be is being discussed for the 777X.

In my opinion, this is due to the financial picture of the 77X, and the rate of return B feels it can achieve. Boeing think, (and I tend to agree) that they can get a very healthy profit out of the 77X; the costs for re-design may not be *cheap*, but the ability to sell replacement frames to the many operators making up the 777's strong market position could result in a windfall of $$, even if the A35J outsells it comparatively.

Quoting na (Reply 93):
The 77W is a very efficient plane, but inferior than the A380 to passengers.

Until passenger perspective/comfort impacts airlines' revenue potential, this is completely irrelevant. So long as pax buy based on price, not on comfort, planes that offer the highest revenue to airlines (which the 777 does very well) will continue to succeed in the market.


User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1912 posts, RR: 4
Reply 111, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12328 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 99):
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 92):
Latest I have heard today from one of our managers is that the 748i as it is, in CX configuration and routes, would offer yields per seat more than that of our current 77Ws.
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 92):
He said that at the moment nothing beats the 77Ws in service with CX

I am a bit confused; the first quote seems to say that the 748i would beat the 77W and the second quote says that nothing beats the 77W; is the 748i a subset of nothing, am I misreading it, or is it a misquote?

My understanding of the comment in reply 92 is that CX would rather wait a few years for the 777-9X, which would beat 747-8i in efficiency, than buy the 747-8i now and be stuck with less efficient aircraft in the long run.

Which - to me - is all good; 777 in CX livery is the best looking 777 in the world.



Now get your f***ing Jumbo Jet off my airport!!! - AC/DC "Ain't No Fun To Be a Millionaire"
User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 3047 posts, RR: 9
Reply 112, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11849 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 109):
Cathay "Loves" the 748F.

After watching CPA71 flying over enroute from MIA to LAX yesterday, I love the Cathay 748F also! Looked beautiful thru binocs and a stunning contrail to boot!
(It's pretty much the only 747 overflight we get here in PHX once or twice a week when it stops in LA and I look for it every day on flightaware.)



Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 3020 posts, RR: 2
Reply 113, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11666 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 108):

Aimed straight at the CX boardroom down the road by any chance?  


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 114, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11638 times:
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We already know where 24 of the 30 are coming from:

15 x HX
05 x CA
04 x UN

Per Wiki, CX looks to have a fleet of 8 747-400s (74K) with their four-class long-haul product. The rest appear to be replaced with 777-300ERs and A350-900s (per Wiki).

Assuming this is true, how long is CX planning to keep the 74K planes in service?

And if CX is one of the MoUs, would they only order 6? The A380 rumor is for, I believe, 10 frames.


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7311 posts, RR: 57
Reply 115, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11436 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 113):

Totally. Pity I didn't get a photo.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineFlyAA757 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1014 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11338 times:

LY appears to be in the market as well, and coincidentally, they have 6 744s...

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20357 posts, RR: 59
Reply 117, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11079 times:

AA tends to place orders for new types in small numbers. Just sayin'...

(Yeah, I know. You'll sooner see a cow flying a 748i than AA ordering one, but still...)


User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2610 posts, RR: 7
Reply 118, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10941 times:

Quoting FlyAA757 (Reply 116):
LY appears to be in the market as well, and coincidentally, they have 6 744s...

Yeah, I'd put them on the short list too - if the number is six, I'd say most likely candidates would be:
TK
PR
LY

I'll throw out a wild card too: SA. I know they retired their 747's a while ago but they're looking for new long-haul aircraft and I wouldn't discount a four-engine aircraft of which there are only two suitable candidates.


User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2840 posts, RR: 25
Reply 119, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9979 times:

Quoting ER757 (Reply 118):
TK

Interesting statements from TK's CEO Temel Kotil:

Quote:
"Wir brauchen mehr große Maschinen. Es ist dringend."
Rough translation: "We need more large airframes. It's urgent"

"Man wolle eben Flieger, die größer sind als die B777, so Kotil. Worauf die Airline also ein Auge geworfen hat, sind der Airbus-Superjumbo A380 und die neue B747-8 von Boeing, wie Kotil in dem Interview erklärt."
Rough translation: "TK is looking for airframes larger than the B 777 and they are evaluating the Airbus-Superjumbo A380 and the new B747-8 from Boeing."

Source: http://www.aerotelegraph.com/turkish...a380-b747-von-airbus-boeing-kaufen

"It's urgent" means for me "forget about the A 380" unless Airbus can offer some earlier production slots.
Otherwise I think TK will become an 747-operator and no doubt, the aircraft will look gorgeous in TK's curent livery.

Sorry, please delete if this article has been discussed somewhere elsewhere.


User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 120, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9838 times:

do we have any idea when any announcements will be made................soon, could be anytime in the next 6 months or even longer!

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 110):
I keep seeing this post made, but have yet to see a good reason why UA would do this from a financial perspective, or any indication from UA itself that this is their plan. The fact that UA is replacing their 744's with 359's should scream loudly, "we don't need 350+ capacity planes in our fleet!" If they did, wouldn't they have already ordered the 77W? UA are clearly not of the opinion they need any frames bigger than the A359, so the 748i should be irrelevant in their future plans as a result. The 359 will be their largest wide-body, and it will be the most efficient plane at that size, so there's no reason for them to explore any other option IMO.

As much as I would love to see UA add the 748i, I agree with you 100% here, there is no suggestion whatsoever its going to happen.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 111):
Which - to me - is all good; 777 in CX livery is the best looking 777 in the world

I think its time they updated their livery IMHO. Just saying


User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2744 posts, RR: 2
Reply 121, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9842 times:

Quoting FlyAA757 (Reply 116):
LY appears to be in the market as well, and coincidentally, they have 6 744s...

As much as I would love to see them operating 748Is, I think LY has to replace their 767s before their 744s



אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3403 posts, RR: 9
Reply 122, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9753 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 119):
"It's urgent" means for me "forget about the A 380" unless Airbus can offer some earlier production slots.
Otherwise I think TK will become an 747-operator and no doubt, the aircraft will look gorgeous in TK's curent livery

Well there are the 2 slots that QF has vacated recently and I beleive that the UU birds that they're going to have trouble paying for may be available at the right price too so that's 4 and, if they're really desperate doesn't A have MSN004 kicking round not doing a lot maybe they'll sell that at the right price?

As for 748Is could some / all be BBJs?


User currently offlinetak From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9162 times:

I would guess that Boeing is planning to announce these orders at The Farnborough Air Show. So hopefully we will found out in about a month or so. I think announcing 30 orders for the 748i at the airshow would be a real boost for the program. We will see. I am excited to find out who the customers are

TAK


User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 124, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8662 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 120):
Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 111):
Which - to me - is all good; 777 in CX livery is the best looking 777 in the world

I think its time they updated their livery IMHO. Just saying

I agree!!


User currently offlineqf340500 From Singapore, joined Oct 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8604 times:

CX Flyboy, i also have to agree, even though i love CX, and prefer them much over SQ, i think the livery needs a change / refresh soon. I think the colour, this light greenish grey, looks always kind of sun bleached

But thats off topic, i know  

I dont think tha LH will top up already, but TK seems likely, and PR.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12897 posts, RR: 46
Reply 126, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8072 times:
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Quoting qf002 (Reply 95):
EK's largest plane for a long time was the 77W (and before that the 773), top airlines like QR, EY, NZ etc all have the 77W as their largest aircraft.

Yet three of the four you mention have ordered A380s as well.   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 127, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7118 times:

Quoting qf340500 (Reply 125):
I dont think tha LH will top up already, but TK seems likely, and PR.

Well, I do hope that LH will order more soon, together with the 787-10  

TK seems the most likely candidate for me !!



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13549 posts, RR: 100
Reply 128, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7068 times:
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Quoting columba (Reply 127):
TK seems the most likely candidate for me !!

   They've dropped enough hints. But how many? It wouldn't be 30...

CX will be interesting to watch. I suspect they would more likely order the A388, but I'd love to be surprised.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently onlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 731 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6812 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 127):
Quote:
Well, I do hope that LH will order more soon, together with the 787-10

Can you say launch customer????   


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7633 posts, RR: 42
Reply 130, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6726 times:

Does anybody know where KE will fly its first 747-800i to?


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlinemd2012 From United States of America, joined May 2012, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 131, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6396 times:

Saw 2 BA 747 at terminal 7 at JFK....Hard for me to see BA without the Queen of Sky.. Hoping for a surprise order here

User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31431 posts, RR: 85
Reply 132, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6341 times:
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Quoting md2012 (Reply 131):
Hard for me to see BA without the Queen of Sky.. Hoping for a surprise order here.

Such an order would be a surprise considering the RFP between the A380-800 and 747-8 was a "winner take all" deal.

You can see the 747-8 freighter in BA World Cargo colors, however.


User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 133, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5845 times:

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 129):
Can you say launch customer????   

You bet   I think it was made very clear by LH that they will order it

Quoting Stitch (Reply 132):
You can see the 747-8 freighter in BA World Cargo colors, however.

At least something

[Edited 2012-06-20 00:17:03]


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently onlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 731 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5059 times:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...airbus-or-boeing-jumbos-next-month

Looks like there is some evidence of how many frames TK's looking to acquire, but it mentions the A380. IIRC I though they said that they (TK management) said that it was too big for their fleet plans. Maybe somebody can clarify this.


User currently offlineebj1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 135, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4775 times:

Given the difference in passenger capacity, 3-class layout, wouldn't the 748i be the better buy for TK? Incidentally, is it too soon to ask what passenger reaction has been to the 748i? Has Lufthansa made any statements or taken any surveys yet?


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