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Pluna Warns Employees That It May "Collapse"  
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8815 posts, RR: 5
Posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 13554 times:
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Pluna, the national airline of Uruguay, is facing a major crises as it was revealed that the carrier is bleeding cash and is seeking a bailout.

Quote:
In Uruguay, the government is negotiating a multimillion-dollar bailout of national airline Pluna, and the company’s CEO has written an unusually frank letter to his employees warning there is, in his words, “the threat that everything we built will collapse.”
Uruguay’s national airline Pluna in bailout talks, CEO blames competition, economic slowdown

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefaddypainter From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2010, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 13563 times:

If there's one way of speeding up the collapse of a company, it's to publicly announce you are in financial trouble. Pluna's cash flow problems are going to get a whole lot worse if consumers and travel agents get wind of this and lose confidence in the airline.

I suppose Pluna's future now hinges on the governments willingness to back them and whether they can see Pluna ever getting to a state whereby they are self sufficient. I do hope they can come to an agreement for the sake of the employees.

We have lost too many airlines in recent times, I don't want to see another go under.  


User currently offline757gb From Uruguay, joined Feb 2009, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 13508 times:

Pluna has been on the headlines for a couple of weeks now in MVD. It so happens that I just flew with them for the first time last Saturday. I wish I had never booked those flights. Workers were delaying service asking for salary improvement while the whole scope of Pluna's debt was coming into light. Those responsible are looking for holes on the ground where to hide, and customer service was just outrageous. They changed my flights to Santiago (I connected with Delta to the US) without any explanation, arriving 3 hours later on the outbound and leaving me with a 10 hour wait on the return, even though there were earlier flights with space available. They jeopardized my connection but absolutely refused to change me to earlier flights claiming that since it was a DL ticket they couldn't touch it (though they had changed it before without problems). I had to repeatedly chew them up via email (phone was useless) until they finally did what they said they couldn't do. Never an apology of any kind.

ANCAP (the local fuel provider, which is government owned) was going to cut services to the airline last Thursday night, but they asked for a 24 hour grace period and paid 600 thousand dollars by check (a week's worth of fuel). The whole drama repeats itself again this week when the weekly fuel payment due date comes up. In the mean time, they owe about 18 million dollars for fuel, about 260 million dollars to 2 Canadian banks, and the list goes on and on.

I have said for a long time in other forums that I thought they were lying about their numbers. But the party line always was that the airline was improving all the time, with new routes and new airplanes.

The way things stand, it is likely that it will get intervened by the government (they owe 25% of the airline). Surely they're looking for more investors but nobody wants to take that hot potato right now. I can say almost for certain that as it stands the airline will not fly for long, but I also believe that the government won't let it stop flying.

Personally I see BQB either taking over Pluna one way or another: either "buying" the whole mess on real good terms or letting it go down and taking over the routes. It's all a big shame. I worked there for a year in maintenance and have some good memories, but it was already a bad place to be. I wish the best for the employees.



God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8815 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13319 times:
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Pluna seeks to cut routes and reduce its fleet and headcount:
Reducirán flota, rutas y personal para asegurar viabilidad de Pluna

Pluna's President insists that the protectionist policies of Argentina are severely hampering the carrier's growth:

Quote:
El presidente de Pluna SA, Matías Campiani, envió una carta a los funcionarios de la aerolínea en la que les explica los motivos por los que la compañía aérea se encuentra con problemas económicos.“Estamos atravesando fuertes turbulencias”, señala en la misiva, en la que señala que el punto que “tal vez” más ha “perjudicado” a Pluna son “las políticas restrictivas aplicadas por la Argentina”.
“Estamos atravesando fuertes turbulencias”


User currently offlinesciurusmdg From Argentina, joined Apr 2012, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13261 times:

Well, its neighbour across the way just had the government raise domestic flight fees 30% from tomorrow...

(http://www.latamaviation.com/2012/06/04/argentine-domestic-flight-tickets-to-rise-30-3/)


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 966 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13209 times:
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what about their fleet? I take it they won't be taking the remaining CRJs on order?


Current fleet- 13 Bombardier CRJ900 Regional Jets

A/C Orders- 2 or 3 CRJ900 airframes per year up to 25 total aircraft.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8815 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13051 times:
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Quoting g500 (Reply 5):
what about their fleet? I take it they won't be taking the remaining CRJs on order?

The Canadian Government is monitoring this situation very closely since Pluna has over 260 million USD in debt owed to various Canadian financial institutions; as well as Bombardier.

Canadá realizó gestiones ante el gobierno por crisis de Pluna


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 966 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 12977 times:
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Quoting SCL767 (Reply 6):
The Canadian Government is monitoring this situation very closely since Pluna has over 260 million USD in debt owed to various Canadian financial institutions; as well as Bombardier.

Hum, that's not good.. $260 mil is a big chunk of money for a small airline Pluna. that's several years' worth of profit


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 12904 times:

I have always wondered why PU doesn't serve cities like STY and PDU. Can those cities support air service or do people in Uruguay just prefer to take the bus or drive to MVD? PU seems to be "Montevideo Airways" instead of a national carrier of Uruguay.

I also wonder if LAN would venture in and form a LAN Uruguay. Although, I would hate to see that beautiful PU livery disappear.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8815 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 12772 times:
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Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 8):
I also wonder if LAN would venture in and form a LAN Uruguay. Although, I would hate to see that beautiful PU livery disappear.

No, LAN would not want Pluna for many reasons:
1. LAN would have to invest a significant amount of money to bailout PU from its debts.
2. PU operates CRJs; LAN would not want to incorporate another fleet type into LAN's fleet.
3. PU uses MVD as a hub to transfer pax between SCL, COR and BUE to certain destinations in Brazil via MVD. LAN already uses GRU and GIG to transfer pax to other destinations with-in Brazil via TAM. Even though PU carries a significant amount of O&D between BUE and MVD, Argentina would most likely block LAN from operating MVD-BUE. Also, PU has limited growth potential.
4. LAN already operates SCL-MVD 2x daily and TAM operates GRU-MVD 2x daily. Should PU collapse, LAN would simply increase frequency on the SCL-MVD route and resume LIM-MVD. TAM would launch GIG-MVD and increase frequency on the GRU-MVD route.


User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 12724 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 6):
The Canadian Government is monitoring this situation very closely since Pluna has over 260 million USD in debt owed to various Canadian financial institutions; as well as Bombardier.

There seems to be a lot of losers from Canada including banks,government and Bombardier. What hasn't been mentioned it that PU has consortium of private equity partners for the other 75% of which 1/3 is held by QK or Jazz.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 12601 times:

so MVD spent all that money on a brand new terminal (which looks amazing) for nothing ? =(

User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4017 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 12441 times:
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Why did they choose to fly the CR9? Is there anything out there that's more fuel efficient for the routes they serve?

User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3703 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12311 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 9):
Argentina would most likely block LAN from operating MVD-BUE.

That's actually the only reason to takeover PU. If LAN were to takeover PU, they would still have their rights to operate at AEP, so it wouldn't be so simple to block them.
It would be very wise from the Uruguayan government to handover the majority of business to LAN, IMHO.

[Edited 2012-06-04 19:39:48]

User currently offlinesciurusmdg From Argentina, joined Apr 2012, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12230 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 12):

Why did they choose to fly the CR9? Is there anything out there that's more fuel efficient for the routes they serve?

I've often wondered the same, they are the only airline down in this part of the world that flies the CRJ9, and Embraer are the natural choice...

Did they get a particularly good offer for them?


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8815 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12185 times:
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Quoting C010T3 (Reply 13):
That's actually the only reason to takeover PU. If LAN was to takeover PU, they would still have their rights to operate at AEP, so it wouldn't be so simple to block them.

It would depend on several factors. LAN wouldn't want any of the debts associated with PU and wouldn't want the CRJs as well. IMHO, if LAN acquired PU, LAN would only keep the routes to AEP, EZE, COR, GRU, GIG, POA, and maybe ASU. Currently, PU operates MVD-AEP 60x weekly, MVD-EZE 2x daily, MVD-COR 10x weekly, MVD-GRU 4x daily, MVD-GIG 2x daily, MVD-POA 2x daily, and MVD-ASU 2x daily. LA would take-over the SCL-MVD route. IMO, the A-319s would replace the CRJs.

LAN Uruguay could hypothetically operate:
MVD-AEP 5 or 6 daily flights
MVD-EZE 1 or 2 daily flights
MVD-COR daily
MVD-GRU 1 or 2 daily flights (transfer remaining slots at GRU to LATAM)
MVD-POA daily
MVD-GIG daily
MVD-ASU daily


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12066 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 15):
Currently, PU operates MVD-AEP 60x weekly, MVD-EZE 2x daily, MVD-COR 10x weekly, MVD-GRU 4x daily, MVD-GIG 2x daily, MVD-POA 2x daily, and MVD-ASU 2x daily.

The website of the airline even reports other stations such as Concepcion, Campinas, Curitiba, Brasilia, Belo Horizonte, Punta del Este and so on.
I'm not sure about how reliable is flighstats.com, but that web-site is displaying flights out of Montevideo heading to some of these cities.
The tag-on PU SCL-CCP is still active as 6x weekly based on amadeus.net

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8815 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12008 times:
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Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 16):
The website of the airline even reports other stations such as Concepcion, Campinas, Curitiba, Brasilia, Belo Horizonte, Punta del Este and so on.

IMO, if LAN acquired PU, BSB, CWB and CNF would likely be cut or operate seasonally. PU operates flights out of PDP seasonally. Remember, LAN-TAM already route pax traveling between both SCL and EZE and BSB, CNF, CWB, etc. via GRU.
PU is closing the MVD-VCP and SCL-CCP routes, and it's rumored that more cuts will occur very soon.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 16):
The tag-on PU SCL-CCP is still active as 6x weekly based on amadeus.net

This route has been a disaster for PU!


User currently offlinesciurusmdg From Argentina, joined Apr 2012, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11918 times:

Just to make the point that even if LAN acquired PU there would be no way, in this world or the next, that the govt. of Argentina would allow it to operate any route that would further detract from pax numbers on Aerolineas/Austral...This would mean anything out of AEP... It simply would not happen.

I mean, in one day they hiked the prices of Argentine Domestic flights by 30% to make up for the losses its incurring.

Imagine if that happened in Europe or the US...


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8815 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11846 times:
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Quoting sciurusmdg (Reply 18):
Just to make the point that even if LAN acquired PU there would be no way, in this world or the next, that the govt. of Argentina would allow it to operate any route that would further detract from pax numbers on Aerolineas/Austral...This would mean anything out of AEP... It simply would not happen.

When the ANAC revoked LAN Argentina's flights to both SCL and GRU out of AEP; LAN Argentina transfered the AEP-GRU route back to EZE. LAN Airlines simply took over the SCL-AEP route; which operates 3x daily. If the ANAC revoked the operational permits on a hypothetical LAN/PU MVD-AEP route; Uruguay may choose to revoke the operational permits of AR/AU operated flights on the AEP-MVD route, (or demand reciprocity).

Quoting sciurusmdg (Reply 18):
I mean, in one day they hiked the prices of Argentine Domestic flights by 30% to make up for the losses its incurring.

I know many will disagree with these fare hikes; but the Argentine population voted for this type of intervention during the last election. It also bodes well for LAN Argentina's domestic operations.


User currently offline757gb From Uruguay, joined Feb 2009, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11847 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 8):
I have always wondered why PU doesn't serve cities like STY and PDU.

Domestic flights in Uruguay are a money losing proposition. BQB is flying some of them with ATRs, but they even had to invest in some of the airports to get them in proper shape.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 11):
so MVD spent all that money on a brand new terminal (which looks amazing) for nothing ? =(

MVD needed the new terminal desperately, regardless of Pluna's plan. The old terminal was a disgrace.

Quoting sciurusmdg (Reply 14):
Did they get a particularly good offer for them?

The word out there (I got no proof) is that the "good offer" was more related to certain people's pockets...
E-Jets would have been the obvious choice IMO.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 3):
Pluna's President insists that the protectionist policies of Argentina are severely hampering the carrier's growth:

The effect of Argentina's policies are undeniable, but that is not the only factor. He is always blaming external factors and not taking any responsibility of the chaos they're in. This didn't start just now, and through the years he kept talking big, yet things just didn't compute to anyone who simply took the time to analyze them.



God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
User currently offlinesciurusmdg From Argentina, joined Apr 2012, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11732 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
I know many will disagree with these fare hikes; but the Argentine population voted for this type of intervention during the last election.

Not the part of the Argentine population that flies, invests, pays taxes, owns farms, works on farms, works in cities or does anything else for that matter... Please don't group us all in with those who made a particularly acute error in voting.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
It also bodes well for LAN Argentina's domestic operations.

LAN Argentina basically price match their fares to Aerolineas anyway... I recently flew to Barriloche which was $600 AR, $625 LAN...


User currently offlinesciurusmdg From Argentina, joined Apr 2012, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11722 times:

Sorry, to add...

Quoting 757gb (Reply 20):
The word out there (I got no proof) is that the "good offer" was more related to certain people's pockets...
E-Jets would have been the obvious choice IMO.

That would make quite a bit of sense! It doesn't all seem to add up!


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8815 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11664 times:
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Quoting sciurusmdg (Reply 21):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
I know many will disagree with these fare hikes; but the Argentine population voted for this type of intervention during the last election.

Not the part of the Argentine population that flies, invests, pays taxes, owns farms, works on farms, works in cities or does anything else for that matter... Please don't group us all in with those who made a particularly acute error in voting.

I did not mean to imply that the entire Argentine population agrees with the current government policies. The vast majority of international travelers that visit Chile originate in BUE, and many share the same sentiments as you do.

Quoting sciurusmdg (Reply 21):
LAN Argentina basically price match their fares to Aerolineas anyway... I recently flew to Barriloche which was $600 AR, $625 LAN...

Yes, their domestic fares are more or less the same; but due to the new increase in domestic fares, the prices just went up.


User currently offlinesciurusmdg From Argentina, joined Apr 2012, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11619 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 23):
Yes, their domestic fares are more or less the same; but due to the new increase in domestic fares, the prices just went up.

Time will tell, but I would imagine LANs prices will increase too... however, as they will operate from EZE not AEP, I know many people who will choose AR for convenience... After all, EZE can take and hour and a bit to get to in rush hour, and AEP is just downtown.

But this diverges from the topic...

My view is that if PU are taken over by LAN etc, the Argentine govt will revoke the slots at the airports... so as a worthwhile investment, at least into Arg, it doesn't seem realistic.


25 SCL767 : LAN Argentina operates AEP-BRC 21x weekly and will operate AEP-BRC 22x weekly next month. EZE-BRC will operate 2x daily on Saturdays and Sundays only
26 sciurusmdg : Sorry, I stand corrected actually, my mistake. (as a side point, it is ridiculous that I can fly TAM for U$180 to Sao Paulo, but U$600+ to BRC) I thi
27 Gonzalo : PU is paying the price of being totally dependant on the Argentinian market. Having Argentina as a neighbour should be a blessing, but with the "luxur
28 SCL767 : PU will end the MVD-VCP route on 10JUNE. PU also plans to discontinue the SCL-CCP route soon.
29 PDPsol : The ANAC authorities cannot simply revoke carriers' route authorizations due to a mere change in ownership. Should LA or TAM or LH or whoever acquire
30 connies4ever : I'm not sure why Embraer would be the "natural" choice, most often these issues are decided on the basis of CASM, mx costs, and financing. It's possi
31 incitatus : Not only with air travel but whole economies, it does seem like South America is making good progress moving ahead - but for Argentina. Voters voted
32 757gb : I'm sorry Gonzalo, but that is a contradiction in terms. I do agree however that it might come down to the government taking over the airline if they
33 Post contains images CamiloA380 : Sad moments for Pluna, hope for the best for the employees! Of course this is good news for you and LAN. These kind of things happen sometimes, as it
34 sciurusmdg : Let me rephrase then. I predict that AR will collapse within 1-2 years, when the current government falls. of course this is all speculation but crac
35 757gb : No matter how many times I've seen it, every time I read that number it gets more and more incredible. What a sad state of affairs for an airline tha
36 rafabullara : With PU going out of business and AR probably collapsing in 1-2 years, LATAM will be the only major airline operating routes from/to BRAZIL-URUGUAY-AR
37 757gb : I don't know if anyone has... I know that at least from my perspective the whole LATAM deal blew me away. I sure wasn't anticipating that!
38 PlunaCRJ : Exactly. We need more independent airlines in the southern cone, no less. I never liked the whole LATAM deal for this very reason, but now with doubt
39 757gb : Thanks! I'm glad it went OK for you, and to be honest when I finally flew last Saturday the flight was on time and there were no issues. The bad part
40 PDPsol : Indeed, while LA and JJ are fine carriers in their own right and the LATAM transaction will, no doubt, create a massive regional player with a plus U
41 757gb : I agree with that. PU might not be able to recover given present conditions. Having said that: was the business model realistic to begin with? Even i
42 PDPsol : Think of the equity holders, LeadGate in this case, as owners of a 'call option'. The value of the call option, and hence their equity value, increas
43 eastern023 : There goes another classic. If they sucumb they will join the fate of some other SouthAm classics...Ecuatoriana, VARIG, Viasa, LAP, LLoyd, Ladeco (alt
44 incitatus : Yes there is. Argentina is both the blessing and the curse. The airport set up in Buenos Aires with traffic split between Aeroparque and Ezeiza matte
45 rafabullara : Just for example, is G3 which is making such a good money with flights from its mini hub at POA to ROS and COR. Even with horrible schedules. I do ma
46 757gb : Thanks for the excellent explanation PDPsol. I agree with your statement on states assuming a commercial role. I believe better controls should have
47 SJOtoLIR : Before the era of their 100-seater CRJ-900s, PU operated a couple of obsolete 732s, in conjunction with one single 763 flying the MVD-GIG-MAD segment
48 757gb : Fleet management was chaos at the end of the Pluna/Varig period. 7 airplanes, 5 models: 3 732s, 1 733, 1 752, 1 763 and 1 ATR42. When Varig left the
49 CRJ900 : Isn't Pluna an all-economy class low-fare carrier? I would argue that a two-abreast 17,2 inch wide seat with 31 inch pitch on a CR9 is a lot better o
50 757gb : Without being an expert I was referring to the whole idea of making MVD a hub and feeding intercontinental flights from Argentina, which implies bagg
51 SJOtoLIR : I've carefully read the above replies and I still don't understand the impact of BQB Lineas Aereas to the operations commanded by PU. BQB basically op
52 757gb : Pluna fought BQB every step of the way from its creation. Basically BQB wanted to establish itself as real competition for the "puente aéreo" (air b
53 Post contains links and images 757gb : Speak of the devil... Juan Carlos Lopez Mena denies having had contacts regarding his possible participation in a plan to save Pluna, while sources fr
54 Post contains links 757gb : Latest on Pluna - Pluna did not pay for last week's fuel. ANCAP (state fuel provider & debtor) is again evaluating to stop providing fuel http://w
55 rafabullara : PU would be an excelent deal for AV/TA group that is not strong at this part of SA.
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