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Air India Hiring 90 Pilots To Fight Union Strike  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6257 times:

Apparently the Indian Government has hardened its position against the AI pilots union, whose ( around 400 ) members are "calling sick" in the last month.

The government announced the hiring of 90 pilots and the intention of launching new flights to Hong Kong, Osaka and Seoul.

http://atwonline.com/operations-main...-more-pilots-strike-continues-0607


How the union will react ?

Thoughts ?


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 558 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6235 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
launching new flights to Hong Kong, Osaka and Seoul.

New flights or restarting existing routes..... that were cancelled since strike began...



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 1):

New flights or restarting existing routes..... that were cancelled since strike began...

  

HKG, KIX, and ICN have been suspended since the agitation began.

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):


Apparently the Indian Government has hardened its position against the AI pilots union, whose ( around 400 ) members are "calling sick" in the last month.

This is surprising, I'm happy that the government is finally showing some spine, but there are many other places where this spine would be much more helpful.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1177 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6164 times:

Are these ex-IT pilots?

User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6156 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 3):
Are these ex-IT pilots?

Most certainly not. IT was an all-Airbus fleet, and these are 777 pilots on strike.

If AI was looking for Airbus pilots, they would train their own ICPA (non-striking) pilots in house.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2218 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5691 times:

Terrible decision. Those pilots really got the shaft with the merger. Now the government sticks to them again to look tough? Any respect I had for AI is disappearing quickly.

User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7754 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5642 times:

Surely they would be better off negotiating a deal on flying the B787.

I know everyone wants to fly the "shiny new plane", but the more flights that are operating, the more chance of getting a seat on the B787.

IMO, it makes more sense to start by converting Boeing pilots. My understanding is that conversion time is likely to be shorter for pilots who already fly Boeing jets.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 5):
Terrible decision. Those pilots really got the shaft with the merger. Now the government sticks to them again to look tough? Any respect I had for AI is disappearing quickly.

The pilots did get the shaft, but they're hardly badly off afterwards - they are still getting a salary that is 9 times higher than that a PhD scientist would get at DRDO. This shows our priorities - a loss making airline is more important than our defense.

The entitled attitude at AI needs to go, and the pilots made themselves an obvious target. They've brought this upon themselves, though a poorly thought out and executed strike, and a complete failure at PR. Now they pay the price.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 6):
Surely they would be better off negotiating a deal on flying the B787.

Not really - the ICPA (non-striking) 787 pilots will be ready to fly in just a few weeks.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 6):
I know everyone wants to fly the "shiny new plane", but the more flights that are operating, the more chance of getting a seat on the B787.

This strike is unlikely to have any significant effect on the number of 787 flights operated.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 6):
IMO, it makes more sense to start by converting Boeing pilots. My understanding is that conversion time is likely to be shorter for pilots who already fly Boeing jets.

Correct, it is both faster and cheaper to convert Boeing pilots. One suggestion has been to convert IX (Air India Express) pilots to fly the 777 and 787, but IX is also understaffed right now.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineBLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 390 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5272 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Apparently the Indian Government has hardened its position against the AI pilots union, whose ( around 400 ) members are "calling sick" in the last month.

The government announced the hiring of 90 pilots and the intention of launching new flights to Hong Kong, Osaka and Seoul.

This is so that the Minister and Air India can publicly say "we held our ground" while still allowing the 100+ sacked pilots to return to the airline.

One has to understand the sordid intricacies of Indian politics. Just a brief explanation I request you to please bear with.

The striking IPG is headed by a NCP politician (Nationalist Congress Party) which is headed by Mr. Sharad Pawar, a very powerful politician long suspected as one the most corrupt in India. The former civil aviation minister Praful Patel, whom most Indians regard as the man who killed Air India to benefit Jet Airways, is Mr. Pawar's right hand man.

The NCP is a major partner of the ruling UPA alliance. Ajit Singh has a small political base and his RLD party is a recent entry to the UPA. The ministry has been given as a quid-pro-quo for support in recent elections. The most likely scenario is the NCP "nudging" the Congress party, which in turn would have instructed Mr. Ajit Singh to open up this back door. Why else would the minister announce that the sacked pilots were welcome to apply to these open positions? In any other airline, if you are terminated, for cause, you do not ever get re-hired.

You don't honestly expect the Rs. 30,000 Crore bailout is to save Air India now is it? That is naive. It is being funnelled so that all the political and labour aristocracy can continue feeding and leeching off the airline.

Boeing will give compensation to Air India. Politicians will publicly claim they fought for their national carrier while at the back end how long before Boeing recovers its "compensation" with increased prices for spares and service? Along with Dreamliners, will come hordes of spares, dozens of new equipment, ladders, tugs, etc. The division of the money has already been done.

To better understand the manipulation of the Indian economy by the politicians and their entire gravy train, I strongly recommend reading this article, written by T.N. Ninan, one of India's most senior and respected journalists. http://www.business-standard.com/res...gooder-economicsthe-lokpal/460973/

The editors of a magazine called gFiles wrote a couple of allegations, detailed massive fraud during the tenure of Mr. Patel. They published these articles as a suo-moto petition for the cognisance of the Supreme Court of India. No one has challenged them or filed for defamation, as this would automatically activate the petition and will require a listening by the court. http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/201...magazine-accuses-systemic-and.html



I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
User currently offlinegoacom From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 8):
You don't honestly expect the Rs. 30,000 Crore bailout is to save Air India now is it? That is naive. It is being funnelled so that all the political and labour aristocracy can continue feeding and leeching off the airline.

This is very true and it high time that AI apologists like Aeroblogger figure this out!


User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5163 times:

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 8):
This is so that the Minister and Air India can publicly say "we held our ground" while still allowing the 100+ sacked pilots to return to the airline.

One has to understand the sordid intricacies of Indian politics. Just a brief explanation I request you to please bear with.

The striking IPG is headed by a NCP politician (Nationalist Congress Party) which is headed by Mr. Sharad Pawar, a very powerful politician long suspected as one the most corrupt in India. The former civil aviation minister Praful Patel, whom most Indians regard as the man who killed Air India to benefit Jet Airways, is Mr. Pawar's right hand man.

The NCP is a major partner of the ruling UPA alliance. Ajit Singh has a small political base and his RLD party is a recent entry to the UPA. The ministry has been given as a quid-pro-quo for support in recent elections. The most likely scenario is the NCP "nudging" the Congress party, which in turn would have instructed Mr. Ajit Singh to open up this back door. Why else would the minister announce that the sacked pilots were welcome to apply to these open positions? In any other airline, if you are terminated, for cause, you do not ever get re-hired.

You don't honestly expect the Rs. 30,000 Crore bailout is to save Air India now is it? That is naive. It is being funnelled so that all the political and labour aristocracy can continue feeding and leeching off the airline.

Wow.... I had no idea about the degree of corruption related with this situation in AI...looks like there is a veeeeeery long time for a "normal" situation. Sad.

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineBLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 390 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5138 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 10):
Wow.... I had no idea about the degree of corruption related with this situation in AI...looks like there is a veeeeeery long time for a "normal" situation. Sad.

Actually do read the Ninan and gfiles articles. They will open your eyes to the institutionalised corruption that is eating the core of India like termites.

It has long been estimated the underground (non-declared) economy of India is as big as the declared one.



I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5076 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 10):
Wow.... I had no idea about the degree of corruption related with this situation in AI...looks like there is a veeeeeery long time for a "normal" situation. Sad.

You can find it in almost every PSU. It's really a sad state of affairs.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 8):
You don't honestly expect the Rs. 30,000 Crore bailout is to save Air India now is it? That is naive. It is being funnelled so that all the political and labour aristocracy can continue feeding and leeching off the airline.

While I agree that it may not be the goal, I do feel that the restructuring plan will benefit AI operationally in many ways - the "accountability" that Ajit Singh is trying to show will improve the airline (so that it can stay alive and continue benefiting politicians and labor).

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 11):
It has long been estimated the underground (non-declared) economy of India is as big as the declared one.

I've heard that the underground economy is bigger than the declared one... Once again, a very sorry state of affairs.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 8):

The striking IPG is headed by a NCP politician

FWIW, it appears that NCP has been very hands-off this whole issue. IPG is calling the shots, and NCP is pretty much just carrying out what the IPG decides.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineBLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 390 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4995 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 12):
FWIW, it appears that NCP has been very hands-off this whole issue. IPG is calling the shots, and NCP is pretty much just carrying out what the IPG decides.

If you think the NCP has not been calling ALL the shots behind the scene, I have a bridge, hell, I have a world-load of bridges to sell you.      



I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4926 times:

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 13):
If you think the NCP has not been calling ALL the shots behind the scene, I have a bridge, hell, I have a world-load of bridges to sell you.

I think you'd be surprised at the amount of autonomy IPG gets even with the NCP at the lead. Obviously, NCP is a significant party to all discussions, but from what I've seen about the way IPG is run (and they've been surprisingly open), IPG pilots are making a lot of their own decisions.

Whether they're just rubber stamping NCP decisions, I wouldn't know. But the process doesn't make it seem that way. Then again, nothing is intuitive in this government.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2218 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4601 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 7):
The pilots did get the shaft, but they're hardly badly off afterwards - they are still getting a salary that is 9 times higher than that a PhD scientist would get at DRDO. This shows our priorities - a loss making airline is more important than our defense.

The entitled attitude at AI needs to go, and the pilots made themselves an obvious target. They've brought this upon themselves, though a poorly thought out and executed strike, and a complete failure at PR. Now they pay the price.

On the one hand you say this and then constantly stick up for the Indian government pumping endless sums of money into AI.

The reality is this. AI will never make a profit as long as it is government owned. The unions know that the government will backstop AI's losses. So they will demand more. And management is not any more responsible. Look at their massive aircraft orders. Utterly irresponsible. Cut them loose and they'll come to their sense really quickly or go under and make room for more competitive airlines.

And I don't buy your line that DRDO scientists get paid a ninth of an AI pilot. Maybe if you're talking the most junior scientist and an AI Captain. But the guys who were on strike were narrowbody pilots.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4523 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 15):
And I don't buy your line that DRDO scientists get paid a ninth of an AI pilot. Maybe if you're talking the most junior scientist and an AI Captain. But the guys who were on strike were narrowbody pilots.

No, I've seen the pay scale - it maxes out at slightly above an AI pilot's starting salary. The midpoint is a little over 50k a year. Of course, AI pilots have to deal with international cost of living for over half the year, but it is still a stark comparison.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 15):
The reality is this. AI will never make a profit as long as it is government owned. The unions know that the government will backstop AI's losses. So they will demand more. And management is not any more responsible. Look at their massive aircraft orders. Utterly irresponsible. Cut them loose and they'll come to their sense really quickly or go under and make room for more competitive airlines.

I agree that privatization needs to happen. I just don't think it can happen until this restructuring is done - no private entity will want to touch AI with a ten foot pole in its current state, and shutting it down isn't an option either.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinegoacom From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4479 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 16):
I agree that privatization needs to happen. I just don't think it can happen until this restructuring is done - no private entity will want to touch AI with a ten foot pole in its current state, and shutting it down isn't an option either.


Privatization will never happen because the unions will not let it happen, restructuring or not! The unions and the government are in it together. The best option is to starve the beast. Continued government largess for AI will only serve to maintain the status quo. Really, there is no option for AI, other than to let it die a slow death. It is a pity that the GOI continues and will continue to pump billions of dollars into this money pit, while 30% of the nation suffers from malnutrition.

Here is a recent article on Indigo viz Jet and AI. Basically Indigo can maintain a larger market share than AI with 1/3rd the number of aircraft. Given AI's legendary high staff to aircraft ratio, I would suspect Indigo does it with as little as 1/6th the manpower of AI. Hands up if anyone thinks that AI's overstaffed (or should I say overstuffed) labor force would give up their cushy jobs that privatization would require? Hell no!

http://articles.economictimes.indiat...digo-president-kingfisher-airlines


User currently offlinebrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4450 times:

Look at Privatization and Kingfisher.
Privatization is a beast of its own.


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2218 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4448 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 16):
I agree that privatization needs to happen. I just don't think it can happen until this restructuring is done - no private entity will want to touch AI with a ten foot pole in its current state, and shutting it down isn't an option either.

Then it's never going to happen.

Or the alternative. Don't sell it to a private entity. Give it a cash float and set it loose as a publicly traded company. Sink or swim.

And shutting it down should be an option. The Indian aviation sector is plenty competitive. There might be some short-term disruption. But really, given how unreliable AI has been lately, it's hard to see how much worse it could be. In the long run, the entire sector would come off substantially better.


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2218 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4441 times:

Quoting brahmin (Reply 18):

Look at Privatization and Kingfisher.
Privatization is a beast of its own.

So what? Creative destruction.

Businesses going under is not a bad thing. They make space for more efficient replacements or a proper equilibrium in a market.

As it stands though, AI generates spectacular losses that the taxpayers of India must absorb while artificially depressing prices and destroying profits in the Indian aviation sector. It's ridiculous. And it likely contributed to Kingfisher going under.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4405 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 19):

Or the alternative. Don't sell it to a private entity. Give it a cash float and set it loose as a publicly traded company. Sink or swim.

That's a perfectly good alternative. But the restructuring needs to be finished first.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 19):

And shutting it down should be an option. The Indian aviation sector is plenty competitive. There might be some short-term disruption. But really, given how unreliable AI has been lately, it's hard to see how much worse it could be. In the long run, the entire sector would come off substantially better.

The effect would be very severe. You cannot take out a fifth of the capacity in a market and expect things to work out.

Quoting brahmin (Reply 18):
Look at Privatization and Kingfisher.
Privatization is a beast of its own.

It's a beast of its own, but I think it's a lesser beast than letting the mantris and babus lead AI to destruction.

That said, privatization cannot be attempted until the carrier is ready for it. Therefore, restructuring has to be finished first.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2218 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4354 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 21):
Therefore, restructuring has to be finished first.

Sure enough. But they need to set some sincere and hard deadlines. Right now there's no real motivation for the employees or management to restructure sincerely.

To be honest, I don't even know if they will actually ever finish restructuring. We could be here years from now still talking about the tens or hundreds of crores AI just pissed away. How does an airline that is 1/3rd as productive as its competitors, with massive legacy liabilities restructure?

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 21):
The effect would be very severe. You cannot take out a fifth of the capacity in a market and expect things to work out.

Air India's share of the market drops every single day, making it's potential closure even less relevant. And taking out capacity is an irrelevant argument. Impact is limited only by how long it'll take all of AI's competitors to ramp up and replace the capacity lost. And I'd argue that this wouldn't take all that long. Months at worst.

Some impact to be sure. But there have been airlines with far larger market shares go under in other markets.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4333 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 22):

Sure enough. But they need to set some sincere and hard deadlines. Right now there's no real motivation for the employees or management to restructure sincerely.

Those hard deadlines have already been set as part of the recent bailout, with clear penalties if they aren't met, and incentives to finish ahead of time. It's a good carrot and stick program.

These goals are just operational improvement, yield and load factor improvement, etc. HR issues have been left out - and those have to be dealt with to. But this is an important step.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 22):

How does an airline that is 1/3rd as productive as its competitors, with massive legacy liabilities restructure?

You can talk about how AI is overstaffed, but the truth is that AI is misstaffed. Some departments are completely overstaffed, but others are severely understaffed. Allocating staff properly is very important for AI.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 22):

Air India's share of the market drops every single day, making it's potential closure even less relevant. And taking out capacity is an irrelevant argument. Impact is limited only by how long it'll take all of AI's competitors to ramp up and replace the capacity lost. And I'd argue that this wouldn't take all that long. Months at worst.

Some impact to be sure. But there have been airlines with far larger market shares go under in other markets.

It's not just capacity drop. AI performs a lot of functions that private carriers wouldn't want to get anywhere close to:
  • ◦ gulf operations - priced so that migrant worker traffic can return with reasonable frequency. Not doing this would be a political nightmare for GoI
  • ◦ Northeast/Kashmir connectivity
  • ◦ Army/GoI VIP charters,
  • ◦ Last minute government routing changes (AI maintains far more slack in schedule compared to competitors to account for this)
  • ◦ Medical transport - many examples where only AI is equipped to deal with the special requirements of medical transport


There are many more essential functions which AI carries out that private carriers wouldn't. The sector is not mature enough for the government to rely on private carriers.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1177 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4212 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
◦ gulf operations - priced so that migrant worker traffic can return with reasonable frequency. Not doing this would be a political nightmare for GoI

SpiceJet? Indigo?

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
◦ Northeast/Kashmir connectivity

Why not do an EAS style subsidy?

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
◦ Army/GoI VIP charters,

Does GOI not have airplanes of their own?

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
◦ Last minute government routing changes (AI maintains far more slack in schedule compared to competitors to account for this)

See above.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
◦ Medical transport - many examples where only AI is equipped to deal with the special requirements of medical transport

Does India not have a branch of the Samaritans? The Red Cross/Crescent? Another volunteer organisation?


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4255 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 24):
SpiceJet? Indigo?

They don't serve the migrant worker routes, to cities like TRV, CCJ, COK, and IXE, because the profitability of them aren't great.

Quoting LOWS (Reply 24):
Why not do an EAS style subsidy?

Wouldn't fly politically. The government wants a degree of control that it can't get without owning the carrier. And some of these routes are really unprofitable - the government would basically have to pay for the route for private carriers to fly them.

Quoting LOWS (Reply 24):
Does GOI not have airplanes of their own?

All of AI's aircraft are GoI's "own aircraft." Along with Air Force and Navy transport aircraft, which sometimes are used for similar purposes...

Quoting LOWS (Reply 24):

Does India not have a branch of the Samaritans? The Red Cross/Crescent? Another volunteer organisation?

The Indian Red Cross relies heavily on AI for air transport on major route pairs, because the other airlines aren't equipped for it.

I'm not aware of the other organizations you mentioned.



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User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7498 posts, RR: 8
Reply 26, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4243 times:

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 8):
how long before Boeing recovers its "compensation" with increased prices for spares and service? Along with Dreamliners, will come hordes of spares, dozens of new equipment, ladders, tugs, etc.

If Boeing does this with AI one would expect existing customers for all models of a/c to seriously consider switching OEM's.


User currently offlinegoacom From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4253 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 22):
Quoting YTZ (Reply 22):
To be honest, I don't even know if they will actually ever finish restructuring. We could be here years from now still talking about the tens or hundreds of crores AI just pissed away. How does an airline that is 1/3rd as productive as its competitors, with massive legacy liabilities restructure?

I agree, they will never finish restructuring. Restructuring is just code for continued government support. They have been implementing restructuring since the mid 1990s!

Quoting YTZ (Reply 22):
Air India's share of the market drops every single day, making it's potential closure even less relevant. And taking out capacity is an irrelevant argument. Impact is limited only by how long it'll take all of AI's competitors to ramp up and replace the capacity lost. And I'd argue that this wouldn't take all that long. Months at worst.

Again, I fully agree. There will be enough capacity to be filled in by the private airlines. Those who miss it will be the government officials who so abuse their perks.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
You can talk about how AI is overstaffed, but the truth is that AI is misstaffed. Some departments are completely overstaffed, but others are severely understaffed. Allocating staff properly is very important for AI.

It is overstaffed. There are no ifs and buts about it and yes, it is misstaffed too. It has been so for decades and will continue to be so thanks to the power of its unions and their connections to various political entities. Restructuring of AI is an oxymoron. Not going to happen. If you think it will, then I suggest you are very naive about the Indian political process and on how things (don't) work in India.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
◦ gulf operations - priced so that migrant worker traffic can return with reasonable frequency. Not doing this would be a political nightmare for GoI
◦ Northeast/Kashmir connectivity
◦ Army/GoI VIP charters,
◦ Last minute government routing changes (AI maintains far more slack in schedule compared to competitors to account for this)
◦ Medical transport - many examples where only AI is equipped to deal with the special requirements of medical transport

I lived in the Gulf for much of my life and continue to have family there. I can assure you that if we had a choice, we would not choose AI. When AI had a lock on the market, its pricing was ridiculous - there was and is no charity by AI. In fact the complaint was that AI and the GOI were abusing the poor migrant workers. In fact my recent misadventure with AI , where they dumped by baggage was on an AI flight from Dubai. If anything, AI can get away with murder on these gulf flights (high fees, poor service) because they can often take advantage of the many uneducated migrants who are simply not aware of their rights.

The other so called services can be outsourced for fees that would be far more competitive than what is on offer now. Just see how it is done in the US. During the gulf wars for example, the US transported a large fraction of its armed forces via private airlines. If it can be done in war, it can easily be done during routine peace time operations. Aeroblogger, sorry, but you sound like you are a of beneficiary of AI's services and/or of the GOI's largess and are using all kinds of excuses to justify the billions of dollars in subsidies and loan guarantees to justify AI's status quo.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 25):
Wouldn't fly politically. The government wants a degree of control that it can't get without owning the carrier. And some of these routes are really unprofitable - the government would basically have to pay for the route for private carriers to fly them.

You have to ask why it won't fly politically? The reason is that various vested interests want to maintain this control and abuse of power for their petty (or not so petty) economic reasons. This is the same reason why there will not be any real restructuring in AI. An EAS subsidy would in fact amount to the same thing - paying airlines something to cover an unprofitable route. If it can work in a larger, but less populated nation like the US, it can surely be adapted to work in India. I am in fact against most EAS subsidies. The market should dictate the prices. If there is a strategic need for the government, let the costs be monetized in the most efficient way possible - higher ticket prices which the govt. could pay the airlines directly.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Quoting goacom (Reply 27):
I agree, they will never finish restructuring. Restructuring is just code for continued government support. They have been implementing restructuring since the mid 1990s!

The restructuring plan that I am speaking of (to ready the airline for privatization) commenced less than 3 months ago. I am reasonably confident that AI will manage to go through with it just fine. There are no politically charged issues dealt with (no effect on employees or routes at all) - it's just getting the operation into (much) better shape.

Quoting goacom (Reply 27):

I lived in the Gulf for much of my life and continue to have family there. I can assure you that if we had a choice, we would not choose AI. When AI had a lock on the market, its pricing was ridiculous - there was and is no charity by AI. In fact the complaint was that AI and the GOI were abusing the poor migrant workers. In fact my recent misadventure with AI , where they dumped by baggage was on an AI flight from Dubai. If anything, AI can get away with murder on these gulf flights (high fees, poor service) because they can often take advantage of the many uneducated migrants who are simply not aware of their rights.

Historically, AI used lucrative gulf routes to subsidize money losing longhaul European/North American routes.

That policy has changed significantly over the last few years, partially due to political pressure and partially due to competitive pressure from private airlines. AI now has the function of keeping pricing affordable for migrant traffic, which they have been doing, most notably with the launch of IX.

Quoting goacom (Reply 27):
Aeroblogger, sorry, but you sound like you are a of beneficiary of AI's services and/or of the GOI's largess and are using all kinds of excuses to justify the billions of dollars in subsidies and loan guarantees to justify AI's status quo.

I have no interests in Air India apart from some booked tickets and my Silver Edge status.

Quoting goacom (Reply 27):

You have to ask why it won't fly politically? The reason is that various vested interests want to maintain this control and abuse of power for their petty (or not so petty) economic reasons.

That's definitely part of it, but not the whole story.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13439 posts, RR: 100
Reply 29, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4107 times:
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How is AI going to adapt at a pace fast enough now that IT is nearly out of the market? This will enable the other Indian airlines to grow at a decent pace. It isn't as if the competition is going to stay static in a highly competitive market.

Quoting goacom (Reply 17):
asically Indigo can maintain a larger market share than AI with 1/3rd the number of aircraft. Given AI's legendary high staff to aircraft ratio, I would suspect Indigo does it with as little as 1/6th the manpower of AI.

Some of that makes sense due to AI's poor aircraft utilization. Some parts of an aircraft take the same maintenance time if the plane if flown 6 or 16 hours per day.

But GE also (wisely) outsources work AI does in house. So its not a 100% apples to apples comparison. However, I agree with your main point that having a large number of employees per aircraft with poor aircraft utilization as well as high salaries is dooming AI.

I believe the recent warnings on the GOI's bond rating will force a change at AI. The question is will it be earlier and less dramatic or later and abrupt?

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 16):
I agree that privatization needs to happen. I just don't think it can happen until this restructuring is done - no private entity will want to touch AI with a ten foot pole in its current state, and shutting it down isn't an option either.

The issue is nothing happens at any pace with AI. For example, AI should have been able to push through the IT restructuring required for *A in no more than 180 days. Heck, I have several friends that lead global network efforts and could have pulled it off in the *A mandated 90 days. Instead, AI took over 3 years! 9W needed 30 days to pass the *A tests (IIRC).

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 21):
The effect would be very severe. You cannot take out a fifth of the capacity in a market and expect things to work out.

Then wind it down in a step or two a la IT. With the near-collapse of IT, 6E, 9W, and Spicejet will receive a cash infusion that will allow them to grow.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
◦ gulf operations - priced so that migrant worker traffic can return with reasonable frequency.

I agree with the above that given a chance, 6E or spicejet would enter that market. Spicejet's bidding for the Hajj proves they are willing to go after lower end segments.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
◦ Army/GoI VIP charters,

Bid them out as the US does.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
◦ Last minute government routing changes (AI maintains far more slack in schedule compared to competitors to account for this)

What does this mean? No government should be randomly rerouting an airline unless it is a charter. The airline will reroute as needed.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
◦ Medical transport - many examples where only AI is equipped to deal with the special requirements of medical transport

That is a lucrative market that will be met once AI is out of it. Without AI in the market, other entrants will help India's medical tourism grow at a far faster rate.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 28):
Historically, AI used lucrative gulf routes to subsidize money losing longhaul European/North American routes.

They should still be lucrative. With fewer employees per passenger, Spicejet and 6E are ready to jump into the market.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 894 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4042 times:
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Quoting YTZ (Reply 22):
Air India's share of the market drops every single day, making it's potential closure even less relevant. And taking out capacity is an irrelevant argument. Impact is limited only by how long it'll take all of AI's competitors to ramp up and replace the capacity lost. And I'd argue that this wouldn't take all that long. Months at worst.

Some impact to be sure. But there have been airlines with far larger market shares go under in other markets



Look what happened in Mexico 2 years ago with Mexicana's demise. There were those who said that business in the country could not function as usual without MX. They had 20 percent of the domestic market. In a matter of weeks, MX's low cost competitors were jumping on former routes, both domestic and International.

I'm relatively new in observing the Indian Aviation scene. But from what I'm seeing, like many on this forum, is that no amount of funding, government or private will save the company unless a total restructuring takes place. And this needs to start from the ground up! On top of it all, you must have a core company value and a motivation to provide quality, on time and caring service to your customers. And this needs to be done at low cost to the company and the customer. Without these basics, AI will never survive. Easy to say, I know. The general feeling I get when reading all that I have about Air India, is that they are all about everything EXCEPT the customer! Perhaps if you cut the government ties, AI will quickly realize who it is who pays their salaries.



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3939 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 29):
The issue is nothing happens at any pace with AI. For example, AI should have been able to push through the IT restructuring required for *A in no more than 180 days. Heck, I have several friends that lead global network efforts and could have pulled it off in the *A mandated 90 days. Instead, AI took over 3 years! 9W needed 30 days to pass the *A tests (IIRC).

Let me preface by saying that I agree completely - AI took far too long do get this done.

However, it was hardly as easy as many other carriers have it - this was going on while the merger of AI and IC was happening, and AI's IT beforehand was archaic. Hurdles that AI should have been able to get around, but weren't able to.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 29):
Then wind it down in a step or two a la IT. With the near-collapse of IT, 6E, 9W, and Spicejet will receive a cash infusion that will allow them to grow.

That is definitely another valid option, although one which is less likely to be accepted politically compared to privatization. Killing AI in stages, allowing competition to react and keeping the market stable is one thing. Killing AI tomorrow is quite another.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 29):
I agree with the above that given a chance, 6E or spicejet would enter that market. Spicejet's bidding for the Hajj proves they are willing to go after lower end segments.

Hajj charters are surprisingly lucrative. I wouldn't term them "lower end segments" the way Malabar migrant traffic is.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 29):
Bid them out as the US does.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 29):
What does this mean? No government should be randomly rerouting an airline unless it is a charter. The airline will reroute as needed.

Easier said than done. GoI is rather disorganized, and charters are often not booked until last minute. AI is required by law to keep slack capacity for this. The private airlines would riot if they had to do the same.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 29):

But 6E also (wisely) outsources work AI does in house.

I don't know about how wise it is to outsource everything out - the one major thing which AI outsources (ground handling to SATS) is cited frequently as the biggest problem with the airline. People rarely have trouble in flight - but ground handling is atrocious far too often.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinegoacom From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3842 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 28):
Historically, AI used lucrative gulf routes to subsidize money losing longhaul European/North American routes.

That policy has changed significantly over the last few years, partially due to political pressure and partially due to competitive pressure from private airlines. AI now has the function of keeping pricing affordable for migrant traffic, which they have been doing, most notably with the launch of IX.

I do not believe it has changed that much as the GOI still restricts competition from the private airlines. There has always been political pressure to serve the gulf. I remember as a kid that various NRI groups would petition AI to serve their communities. Bring in the competition and watch prices come down even more.


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2218 posts, RR: 24
Reply 33, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
AI performs a lot of functions that private carriers wouldn't want to get anywhere close to:
◦ gulf operations - priced so that migrant worker traffic can return with reasonable frequency. Not doing this would be a political nightmare for GoI
◦ Northeast/Kashmir connectivity
◦ Army/GoI VIP charters,
◦ Last minute government routing changes (AI maintains far more slack in schedule compared to competitors to account for this)
◦ Medical transport - many examples where only AI is equipped to deal with the special requirements of medical transport

Irrelevant excuses. A lot of that can be replaced (Spicejet, IndiGo to the Gulf), or contracted out very, very quickly. And in the long run, the IAF should actually be doing aeromedical evac, strategic airlift and VIP transport. It's ridiculous that Air India provides VVIP transport, in the first place. There are a host of security reasons why this function should only be provided by the IAF. But of course, if it was, it would be pretty difficult for the politicians to commandeer an aircraft for a weekend jaunt with the family. The IAF is far less susceptible to manipulation than the ops desk at AI.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
You can talk about how AI is overstaffed, but the truth is that AI is misstaffed. Some departments are completely overstaffed, but others are severely understaffed. Allocating staff properly is very important for AI.

Semantics. The effect of any kind of misallocation of any resource (HR or otherwise) is the same: inefficiency. AI generates fewer revenue passenger miles per employee than its competitors. Part of that problem is definitely the denominator of the equation.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 23):
Those hard deadlines have already been set as part of the recent bailout, with clear penalties if they aren't met, and incentives to finish ahead of time. It's a good carrot and stick program.

Meh. And the GoI with Ministers who compete with jellyfish for spinal strength, will just move the date if the reforms are not done. They've lost their credibility a long time ago.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 25):
They don't serve the migrant worker routes, to cities like TRV, CCJ, COK, and IXE, because the profitability of them aren't great.

No. They don't serve them because there isn't demand to support several carriers. And sometimes because there are restrictions on Indian carriers servicing the Gulf, etc. If the market was opened up and AI didn't exist, you can bet somebody would service those routes. Worst case scenario? A quick change in BOM.


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2218 posts, RR: 24
Reply 34, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 25):
Wouldn't fly politically. The government wants a degree of control that it can't get without owning the carrier. And some of these routes are really unprofitable - the government would basically have to pay for the route for private carriers to fly them.

If this is actually true than even the GoI has no real interest in reforming AI and it will never be privatized.

Quoting goacom (Reply 27):
If anything, AI can get away with murder on these gulf flights (high fees, poor service) because they can often take advantage of the many uneducated migrants who are simply not aware of their rights.

Very true. And not just with the labourers. My family regularly complains that the DXB-IXE fares charged by IXE are out of proportion to the distance travelled. I can't disagree with that argument.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 28):
Historically, AI used lucrative gulf routes to subsidize money losing longhaul European/North American routes.

You say this right after you say that they've always looked out for poor labourers?

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 28):
That policy has changed significantly over the last few years, partially due to political pressure and partially due to competitive pressure from private airlines. AI now has the function of keeping pricing affordable for migrant traffic, which they have been doing, most notably with the launch of IX.

Oh. So they wallet raped their poorest customers but don't do it anymore, so it's okay now?

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 28):
I have no interests in Air India apart from some booked tickets and my Silver Edge status.

You're well above the average fanboy. And have any kind of status or outstanding bookings most certainly implies a certain personal interest in the outcome.


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2218 posts, RR: 24
Reply 35, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3813 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 31):
That is definitely another valid option, although one which is less likely to be accepted politically compared to privatization.

Accepted politically by whom? Ask the flying public and they'll tell you that they have no grief with putting Air India down.

But the politicians on the other hand? Different story.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 31):
AI is required by law to keep slack capacity for this.

And it can still do that as a private entity. Only the GoI will have to provide fair market compensation for that service.

More broadly, this is a massive economic distortion in the aviation sector. If GoI is mandated to keep spare capacity but is allowed to deploy it against its competitors on a whim, this is a recipe for severe disruption in the aviation market. It's like the Air Force running an airline. Who'd want to compete against them knowing that profits would never matter?

AI should not be providing these services. Like every other government, the IAF should be fielding a VVIP squadron and have enough strategic and tactical airlift capacity to meet internal, non-emergency demands. Charters should really only be used during contingencies.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 35):

Accepted politically by whom?

The politicians of course. It's their decision...

Quoting YTZ (Reply 35):

And it can still do that as a private entity. Only the GoI will have to provide fair market compensation for that service.

I agree with you that this is where AI should be heading. It cannot happen overnight though.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

Is the strike about who gets to fly the 787?

User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3454 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 37):
Is the strike about who gets to fly the 787?

Partially. There are many other grievances that the pilots have as well, some legitimate, some not so much.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3446 times:

Will they take the 3 788s this month? That would be at least 6 pilots needed..

User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3402 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 39):
Will they take the 3 788s this month? That would be at least 6 pilots needed..

There first batch of ICPA (non-striking) 787 pilots will be ready within the next 2 weeks. There will be more than enough pilots to operate the flights.

That is, unless AI falls trap to a DGCA rule that I'm investigating - which would require all ICPA pilots to be copilots first for 100 hours before becoming commanders. If no commanders are available, the aircraft cannot be operated... I'm still looking into that though - I'm not sure if the rule is still in effect, or if it would affect this situation.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 41, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3034 times:

So what about fears of the Temp lockout....


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBA777-236 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 674 posts, RR: 4
Reply 42, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 40):
There first batch of ICPA (non-striking) 787 pilots will be ready within the next 2 weeks. There will be more than enough pilots to operate the flights.

Did AI say which routes will be the first to get the 787?

Also, any clues on when YYZ (Toronto) service will resume? It's been more than a month since an AI aircraft has landed here. ORD seems to be flying these days from what I heard.



I like British Airways! I'm not sure why, but I do! ;-)
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

Quoting BA777-236 (Reply 42):
Did AI say which routes will be the first to get the 787?

Yeah, it will start on domestic routes for crew familiarization flights. Then, it will move to European routes for first longhauls (DEL-FRA and BOM-LHR are the 2 I've heard thrown around...). Once that stage is done, Australia service (DEL/BLR-MEL-SYD triangular routes) will commence. After that, there are no official plans, although YVR and BOS have been thrown around as possible new (seasonal) routes. For off-seasons, AI is looking at replacing the 777s, since they are too much capacity.

Quoting BA777-236 (Reply 42):
Also, any clues on when YYZ (Toronto) service will resume? It's been more than a month since an AI aircraft has landed here. ORD seems to be flying these days from what I heard.

They are hoping to resume in Early August, or earlier if the strike situation gets cleared up.

Passengers are currently being rerouted YYZ-ORD-DEL.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinegr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3124 posts, RR: 4
Reply 44, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 43):
Quoting BA777-236 (Reply 42):Also, any clues on when YYZ (Toronto) service will resume? It's been more than a month since an AI aircraft has landed here. ORD seems to be flying these days from what I heard.They are hoping to resume in Early August, or earlier if the strike situation gets cleared up.Passengers are currently being rerouted YYZ-ORD-DEL.

I certainly hope AI pilots clears up their strike and gets back to doing what they're supposed to do - flying planes.....

I just checked the fares to India from YYZ, for end Sept and they are sky high! That's supposed to be off-peak season when the fares normally drop off.....I suspect the sudden removal of AI flights has something to do with that....


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 44):
I certainly hope AI pilots clears up their strike and gets back to doing what they're supposed to do - flying planes.....

It's going to take compromise to fix this, and I don't see either side (pilots or management) willing to compromise right now. It's truly a sad situation all around.



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