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Norwegian Firms Up 100 A320neo Order  
User currently offlineLH422 From Germany, joined Sep 2010, 402 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 13034 times:

I didn't see this posted yet:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...s-up-order-for-100-airbus-a320neo/

Quite an increase in capacity for DY. I wonder which new routes we'll see from 2015 on?

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 743 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12510 times:
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As an Airbus fan I have some hesitations about this order. Isn't Norwegian 10 years late with responding to the low cost hype?

- Even though the Nordic countries have relatively seen the most air routes at least in Europe, can the number of ordered airplanes really be deployed? The Nordics have around 20 mln inhabitants. They also have some dozen 737s on order.....
- With the economic downturn in the EU and the moderate growth in Norway, is it wise to expand that fast?
- With EZY, Ryanair and Air Berlin on the market, will they have any chance? Also FlyBe Nordic has entered the market too.
- What about SAS?


User currently onlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5126 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12379 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 1):
Even though the Nordic countries have relatively seen the most air routes at least in Europe, can the number of ordered airplanes really be deployed? The Nordics have around 20 mln inhabitants. They also have some dozen 737s on order.....

They can, and most likely will, open up bases and routes all over Europe. And a large number of planes is needed anyway for feeding the 787 lowcost longhaul fleet.


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 12217 times:

Norwegian has taken a good chunk out of SAS, so I expect them to expand being a leaner operation than our sad governmental joke of an air line.

They will replace planes about 7 years between, its not like they will fly 200 at the same time.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9589 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 12123 times:

Even with replacement, Norweigian has orders for 4 times its current fleet. That's massive expansion. I am still amazed at the expansion that they are planning, but as Ryanair and Easyjet have cut back expansion plans, I guess there is still opportunity for NAS. There's no need for 200 airplanes flying around Scandinavia, so you have to wonder where they are going to go.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11945 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 4):
There's no need for 200 airplanes flying around Scandinavia, so you have to wonder where they are going to go.

It's of course a risk, but I think they will succeed because of several reasons:

* Hubs in "all" over Europe.
* Routes way beyond Europe
* Norway's strong financial state
* Weak main competitor (SAS)
* Deliveries of NEO and MAX will span a decade, later frames maybe replacing earlier ones.

And if Norwegian's plan fails NEO and MAX frames and production slots will be highly lucrative


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11756 times:

I think Norwegian will replace SAS for Scandinavian aviation in 10 years. I know both the Norwegian and Swedish government is fed up with the losses by SAS. Only Denmark wants to keep paying more into that black hole.

Go Norwegian Go!  


User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3054 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10782 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 1):
They also have some dozen 737s on order.....

A lot more than some dozen.

75 737-800's on order, 100 737Max + 100 options, and now 100 A320neo + 50 options.

There is still plenty of room for growth. Soon, they'll retire the 737-300's (haven't so far, as they've needed that capacity), and the later 737-800's and the 737Max + A320neo's will be used to replace earlier 737-800's.

Although, I do think they'll try to grow in the Eastern European markets with the A320neo's. With the new aircraft type, they can easily create new pilot contracts, where pilots earn quite a bit less than 737 pilots. So, that lowers costs in an already low cost market (that is if they do what I think).

Norwegian's plans are ambitious, and I hope they do well. With enough low cost feeding traffic, they're intercontinental operation could also prove very successful.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2743 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10106 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 1):
As an Airbus fan I have some hesitations about this order.
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 4):
Even with replacement, Norweigian has orders for 4 times its current fleet.

I wouldn't be too worried. According to a source, the NEO's won't actually be flying for DY. Sorry, can't say more than that till they publically anounce their plans.  


Regards,

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7250 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9937 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 6):
I think Norwegian will replace SAS for Scandinavian aviation in 10 years.

I hope not, connecting with Norwegian is a PITA, they don't have the route network that comes close to SAS (in conjunction with Star) their FFP is crap, no lounges, and they keep on losing my baggage, in the last 10 domestic flights with Norwegian they've lost my baggage 3 times, I only fly to Oslo return.


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7114 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9867 times:

Again, how is Norwegian funding these aircraft?


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2084 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9746 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
They can, and most likely will, open up bases and routes all over Europe.

Norway is no EU member. I doubt that they can easily open up bases all over Europe.



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9478 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 9):
I hope not, connecting with Norwegian is a PITA, they don't have the route network that comes close to SAS (in conjunction with Star) their FFP is crap, no lounges, and they keep on losing my baggage, in the last 10 domestic flights with Norwegian they've lost my baggage 3 times, I only fly to Oslo return.

Lost your luggage trice? Norwegians luggage performance are actually better than SAS due to more point to point flights.
That being said, I have no doubt that lost luggage occurs on DY flights, but I would really like to see some evidence of your luggage being lost trice within 10 domestic flights!

I would therefore really like to know your definition of LOST luggage?

I will also strongly recommend you to look into Norwegians business model. They defines themselves as a LCC with a network and fleet adapted to their business model. Judging their Frequent Flyer Program and lack of Lounges as crap is just ridiculous as they do not have such and does not intend to acquire any. FFP are still banned within Norway and they Cash rewards aren't marketed as a FFP program.


User currently offlinespeedygonzales From Norway, joined Sep 2007, 727 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9434 times:

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 11):
Norway is no EU member. I doubt that they can easily open up bases all over Europe.

They can. Norway is part of the European Common Aviation Area, which is also why e.g. DOT LT can operate domestic Norwegian flights.



Las Malvinas son Argentinas
User currently offlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3361 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9346 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 12):
Judging their Frequent Flyer Program and lack of Lounges as crap is just ridiculous as they do not have such and does not intend to acquire any. FFP are still banned within Norway and they Cash rewards aren't marketed as a FFP program.

That is why it crap: they don't have any!


User currently offlinevegetables2001 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9303 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 9):
I hope not, connecting with Norwegian is a PITA, they don't have the route network that comes close to SAS (in conjunction with Star) their FFP is crap, no lounges, and they keep on losing my baggage, in the last 10 domestic flights with Norwegian they've lost my baggage 3 times, I only fly to Oslo return.

95% of people who pay for their own flights don't give a rats ass about all these ridiculous extras, so why offer them?

Norwegian make a profit, there are plenty of loss making moribund airlines that do offer all this rubbish, why not fly on them?



A306,319,333 ATR72 BAC113/5, B703/704,717,721,732/3/4/5/7/8,741/1/4,757,763,773/E, DC8-6,9-3/5,10-30, DC106
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7114 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9224 times:

Quoting vegetables2001 (Reply 15):
Norwegian make a profit

I'm sorry, but thats horse manure. Norwegian are loss making

FEB

Bjorn Kjos, chief executive, said that the fall in profits – which was partly due to a 32 per cent rise in average fuel prices – was nothing to be alarmed about.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5587f51a-5896-11e1-9f28-00144feabdc0.html



APR

Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) reported a first-quarter net loss of $49.8 million.

http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...posts-1q-net-loss-498-million-0426

I ask my question again - Like Lion air, How are they funding all these aircraft?


Norwegian capital capitalisation 2.3bn NOK
Order List Price 127bn NOK

[Edited 2012-06-09 01:44:42]


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9105 times:

Norwegians loss wont be added to my tax bill, SAS loss will, why should I cheer SAS losses? I would rather build more schools or high ways than keep SAS alive, is that strange?

User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9071 times:

Quoting someone83 (Reply 14):
That is why it crap: they don't have any!

Well few people refers to Elkem as crap because they do not produce aluminium car frames, but just the raw materials?
Judging a product for not being what it never intended to be, is an ignorance not worth discussing further!


User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9012 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 16):
I'm sorry, but that's horse manure. Norwegian are loss making

All operators based in the north of Europe are faced with significant losses because of very challenging weather conditions during October to April. Especially Q1 is a month where no airline delivers profit in Scandinavia. I think few really realises the complexity of airline operations up here in the winter time.

However for the year end, Norwegian has been profitable for both 2010 and 2011.

But I do agree with you, It's a very risky game they are entering!


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7250 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8832 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 12):
Lost your luggage trice? Norwegians luggage performance are actually better than SAS due to more point to point flights.
That being said, I have no doubt that lost luggage occurs on DY flights, but I would really like to see some evidence of your luggage being lost trice within 10 domestic flights!

I would therefore really like to know your definition of LOST luggage?

My flights on DY are all between Molde and Olso, so far DY have lost (as in it never turned up) my luggage 1 and the other two times the luggage arrived the next day, all three times it was from Molde to Oslo, I find this ridiculous because DY don't serve any destinations other than Oslo from Molde. SK (and Star partners) have only lost my luggage twice in over 400 flights, both times it arrived the following day.

Quoting vegetables2001 (Reply 15):

95% of people who pay for their own flights don't give a rats ass about all these ridiculous extras, so why offer them?

I don't have to pay for my flights, I like the lounges as I tend to spend a couple of hours in Oslo before I get a connecting flight, sitting in a lounge is far more enjoyable than wandering around the airport of sitting at a gate.

What I do like about DY is the staff, on average they are significantly younger and more enthusiastic than those flying for SK, I find a lot of the SK cabin crew old, tired and no longer interested in providing decent service.


User currently offlinechuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 763 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7467 times:

slightly off topic but:

Does anybody who maybe works at norwegian know the correct web address to order norwegian branded things?


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6948 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 16):
I'm sorry, but thats horse manure. Norwegian are loss making

Oh .. you're wrong.
Norwegian have made profits for the last 5 years.
It's only this first quarter of 2012 that has been a loss. But then again it seems like "every" airline on the planet have been struggling this quarter.
Passenger carried has been rising steadily while load factor rests on 80.


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7114 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6650 times:

How can a company with a market cap of 2.3bn buy something worth 127bn?

What was the total profit of Norwegian over the last five years? How many aircraft does that pay for?



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6643 times:

How can SAS buy new planes? Never shown profit for at least 5 years..

25 Post contains images someone83 : uh-hum, that was quite below the belt line......got a new employer since I hit a nerve? First of all: Norwegian is in the airline business, and they
26 Post contains images someone83 : I think many persons here should pay attention to your post Who says these will be flying for Norwegian This is irrelevant....even before you brought
27 bestwestern : Market capitalisation is irrelevant? I keep forgetting that fiscal reality doesn't matter in Norway. Except in Greece the bill has to be paid at the
28 Post contains images someone83 : I think many persons here should pay attention to your post Who says these will be flying for Norwegian This is irrelevant....even before you brought
29 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Hmmm... There were some discussions in another thread about Finnair cooperating with Norwegian... Cheers!
30 Asiaflyer : Market cap is not relevant. As long as you have cash-flow to pay for the expenses, there is no real problem. Few airlines chokes up all money from ow
31 scbriml : Seriously? The same way that I'm able to buy a house - I can just about muster 10% of the purchase price from my savings, the rest I borrow and pay b
32 UALWN : Mostly. AA's market capitalization must be right now very close to zilch, yet they have some 400 outstanding aircraft orders.
33 sweair : They will takes these frames over 10 years or more, like others posted, just putting a small amount of their own cash into them. They wont pay all tha
34 HELyes : Yes Finnair is looking for a partner to operate their European flights, AY and DY have been dating already before but nothing has come out. But who k
35 sweair : Norwegian bought Fly Nordic that was owned by AY?
36 HELyes : Yes thats how AY and DY "met", since that they have been in talks for co-operation but no success so far.
37 KiwiRob : That's a bummer I much prefer the A320 to the 737, mainly because it's easier to look out the window.
38 LN-KGL : Look like a lot of hot and high departures here today. As I see it, the A320neos can have two functions: 1. To safeguard access to new airframes if th
39 poLot : It would be far easier, not to mention much less risky, to just partner with a current American/Asian airline than attempt to create their own. My gu
40 LN-KGL : I don't think we can expect any answer from Hamlet69, either confirming or denying this. One thing is for sure, many surprises can be expected the co
41 Mortyman : For the 1000 th time ... Foreign investmentbanks both in Europe and USA. The aircraftmanufacturaes themselves and Norwegian Air Shuttle. Just like mo
42 lukeyboy95 : Norwegian might be in a good place to capitalise on an airbridge from Russia and onward into various European destinations. PAX still seem to pay a pr
43 g2scandinavia : What kind of rellevance does Russia have here? Norwegian does not serve the Russian market except of two weekly to LED?
44 sweair : Yeah going forward Norwegian has a lot of tricks up its sleeve, its a very flexible operation, very modern structure. I think they will out last SAS f
45 poLot : He was suggesting that Norwegian might be interested in expanding into Russia.
46 Post contains images Mortyman : Yes they will. Around 2020 Mr. Bjørn Kjos has stated that there will be around 220 Norwegian aircraft in the air
47 Post contains images eaa3 : I wanted to share my idea about what I think Norwegian is going to do with their A320NEO's. Keep in mind that I am simply talking without any knowled
48 Post contains images sweair : Cool idea You never know with those Norwegians
49 LN-KGL : But what about their B788s then eaa3?
50 Post contains images eaa3 : Like I said this is just a random idea that I have no reason to think might be reasonable. They´ll probably do something else. This is just what I t
51 Mortyman : The 8 787 8's that they have on order is only what they have gotten their hands on at the moment. The CEO has indicated a number of 20 if everything
52 AirlineCritic : SK may not be the best comparison point. Most people flying long-haul out of Scandinavia select other carriers, BA, LH, AY. AY alone has 15 long-haul
53 Burkhard : Isn't Norwegian the low cost arm of the Air France group in Europe? Did I only dream this?
54 Post contains images teme82 : Yeah you saw a dream... AY owns 5% of DY
55 Post contains links LN-KGL : You must be dreaming. Norwegian's 10 largest shareholders can be seen here: http://www.norwegian.com/uk/about-no...-relations/the-share/shareholders/
56 Post contains images CPHFF : Will these new planes have better legroom ? ? ? I flew DY 3580 CPH-PRG on a 738 this morning, and the legroom was really bad. I was lucky it was only
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