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Norwegian Firms Up 100 A320neo Order  
User currently offlineLH422 From Germany, joined Sep 2010, 398 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 13001 times:

I didn't see this posted yet:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...s-up-order-for-100-airbus-a320neo/

Quite an increase in capacity for DY. I wonder which new routes we'll see from 2015 on?

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12477 times:

As an Airbus fan I have some hesitations about this order. Isn't Norwegian 10 years late with responding to the low cost hype?

- Even though the Nordic countries have relatively seen the most air routes at least in Europe, can the number of ordered airplanes really be deployed? The Nordics have around 20 mln inhabitants. They also have some dozen 737s on order.....
- With the economic downturn in the EU and the moderate growth in Norway, is it wise to expand that fast?
- With EZY, Ryanair and Air Berlin on the market, will they have any chance? Also FlyBe Nordic has entered the market too.
- What about SAS?


User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5119 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12346 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 1):
Even though the Nordic countries have relatively seen the most air routes at least in Europe, can the number of ordered airplanes really be deployed? The Nordics have around 20 mln inhabitants. They also have some dozen 737s on order.....

They can, and most likely will, open up bases and routes all over Europe. And a large number of planes is needed anyway for feeding the 787 lowcost longhaul fleet.



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12184 times:

Norwegian has taken a good chunk out of SAS, so I expect them to expand being a leaner operation than our sad governmental joke of an air line.

They will replace planes about 7 years between, its not like they will fly 200 at the same time.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9489 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12090 times:

Even with replacement, Norweigian has orders for 4 times its current fleet. That's massive expansion. I am still amazed at the expansion that they are planning, but as Ryanair and Easyjet have cut back expansion plans, I guess there is still opportunity for NAS. There's no need for 200 airplanes flying around Scandinavia, so you have to wonder where they are going to go.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 11912 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 4):
There's no need for 200 airplanes flying around Scandinavia, so you have to wonder where they are going to go.

It's of course a risk, but I think they will succeed because of several reasons:

* Hubs in "all" over Europe.
* Routes way beyond Europe
* Norway's strong financial state
* Weak main competitor (SAS)
* Deliveries of NEO and MAX will span a decade, later frames maybe replacing earlier ones.

And if Norwegian's plan fails NEO and MAX frames and production slots will be highly lucrative


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 11723 times:

I think Norwegian will replace SAS for Scandinavian aviation in 10 years. I know both the Norwegian and Swedish government is fed up with the losses by SAS. Only Denmark wants to keep paying more into that black hole.

Go Norwegian Go!  


User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3032 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10749 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 1):
They also have some dozen 737s on order.....

A lot more than some dozen.

75 737-800's on order, 100 737Max + 100 options, and now 100 A320neo + 50 options.

There is still plenty of room for growth. Soon, they'll retire the 737-300's (haven't so far, as they've needed that capacity), and the later 737-800's and the 737Max + A320neo's will be used to replace earlier 737-800's.

Although, I do think they'll try to grow in the Eastern European markets with the A320neo's. With the new aircraft type, they can easily create new pilot contracts, where pilots earn quite a bit less than 737 pilots. So, that lowers costs in an already low cost market (that is if they do what I think).

Norwegian's plans are ambitious, and I hope they do well. With enough low cost feeding traffic, they're intercontinental operation could also prove very successful.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently onlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2735 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10073 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 1):
As an Airbus fan I have some hesitations about this order.
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 4):
Even with replacement, Norweigian has orders for 4 times its current fleet.

I wouldn't be too worried. According to a source, the NEO's won't actually be flying for DY. Sorry, can't say more than that till they publically anounce their plans.  


Regards,

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7099 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9904 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 6):
I think Norwegian will replace SAS for Scandinavian aviation in 10 years.

I hope not, connecting with Norwegian is a PITA, they don't have the route network that comes close to SAS (in conjunction with Star) their FFP is crap, no lounges, and they keep on losing my baggage, in the last 10 domestic flights with Norwegian they've lost my baggage 3 times, I only fly to Oslo return.


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9834 times:

Again, how is Norwegian funding these aircraft?


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9713 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
They can, and most likely will, open up bases and routes all over Europe.

Norway is no EU member. I doubt that they can easily open up bases all over Europe.



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9445 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 9):
I hope not, connecting with Norwegian is a PITA, they don't have the route network that comes close to SAS (in conjunction with Star) their FFP is crap, no lounges, and they keep on losing my baggage, in the last 10 domestic flights with Norwegian they've lost my baggage 3 times, I only fly to Oslo return.

Lost your luggage trice? Norwegians luggage performance are actually better than SAS due to more point to point flights.
That being said, I have no doubt that lost luggage occurs on DY flights, but I would really like to see some evidence of your luggage being lost trice within 10 domestic flights!

I would therefore really like to know your definition of LOST luggage?

I will also strongly recommend you to look into Norwegians business model. They defines themselves as a LCC with a network and fleet adapted to their business model. Judging their Frequent Flyer Program and lack of Lounges as crap is just ridiculous as they do not have such and does not intend to acquire any. FFP are still banned within Norway and they Cash rewards aren't marketed as a FFP program.


User currently onlinespeedygonzales From Norway, joined Sep 2007, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9401 times:

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 11):
Norway is no EU member. I doubt that they can easily open up bases all over Europe.

They can. Norway is part of the European Common Aviation Area, which is also why e.g. DOT LT can operate domestic Norwegian flights.



Las Malvinas son Argentinas
User currently onlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3306 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9313 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 12):
Judging their Frequent Flyer Program and lack of Lounges as crap is just ridiculous as they do not have such and does not intend to acquire any. FFP are still banned within Norway and they Cash rewards aren't marketed as a FFP program.

That is why it crap: they don't have any!


User currently offlinevegetables2001 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9270 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 9):
I hope not, connecting with Norwegian is a PITA, they don't have the route network that comes close to SAS (in conjunction with Star) their FFP is crap, no lounges, and they keep on losing my baggage, in the last 10 domestic flights with Norwegian they've lost my baggage 3 times, I only fly to Oslo return.

95% of people who pay for their own flights don't give a rats ass about all these ridiculous extras, so why offer them?

Norwegian make a profit, there are plenty of loss making moribund airlines that do offer all this rubbish, why not fly on them?



A306,319,333 ATR72 BAC113/5, B703/704,717,721,732/3/4/5/7/8,741/1/4,757,763,773/E, DC8-6,9-3/5,10-30, DC106
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9191 times:

Quoting vegetables2001 (Reply 15):
Norwegian make a profit

I'm sorry, but thats horse manure. Norwegian are loss making

FEB

Bjorn Kjos, chief executive, said that the fall in profits – which was partly due to a 32 per cent rise in average fuel prices – was nothing to be alarmed about.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5587f51a-5896-11e1-9f28-00144feabdc0.html



APR

Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) reported a first-quarter net loss of $49.8 million.

http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...posts-1q-net-loss-498-million-0426

I ask my question again - Like Lion air, How are they funding all these aircraft?


Norwegian capital capitalisation 2.3bn NOK
Order List Price 127bn NOK

[Edited 2012-06-09 01:44:42]


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9072 times:

Norwegians loss wont be added to my tax bill, SAS loss will, why should I cheer SAS losses? I would rather build more schools or high ways than keep SAS alive, is that strange?

User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9038 times:

Quoting someone83 (Reply 14):
That is why it crap: they don't have any!

Well few people refers to Elkem as crap because they do not produce aluminium car frames, but just the raw materials?
Judging a product for not being what it never intended to be, is an ignorance not worth discussing further!


User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8979 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 16):
I'm sorry, but that's horse manure. Norwegian are loss making

All operators based in the north of Europe are faced with significant losses because of very challenging weather conditions during October to April. Especially Q1 is a month where no airline delivers profit in Scandinavia. I think few really realises the complexity of airline operations up here in the winter time.

However for the year end, Norwegian has been profitable for both 2010 and 2011.

But I do agree with you, It's a very risky game they are entering!


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7099 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8799 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 12):
Lost your luggage trice? Norwegians luggage performance are actually better than SAS due to more point to point flights.
That being said, I have no doubt that lost luggage occurs on DY flights, but I would really like to see some evidence of your luggage being lost trice within 10 domestic flights!

I would therefore really like to know your definition of LOST luggage?

My flights on DY are all between Molde and Olso, so far DY have lost (as in it never turned up) my luggage 1 and the other two times the luggage arrived the next day, all three times it was from Molde to Oslo, I find this ridiculous because DY don't serve any destinations other than Oslo from Molde. SK (and Star partners) have only lost my luggage twice in over 400 flights, both times it arrived the following day.

Quoting vegetables2001 (Reply 15):

95% of people who pay for their own flights don't give a rats ass about all these ridiculous extras, so why offer them?

I don't have to pay for my flights, I like the lounges as I tend to spend a couple of hours in Oslo before I get a connecting flight, sitting in a lounge is far more enjoyable than wandering around the airport of sitting at a gate.

What I do like about DY is the staff, on average they are significantly younger and more enthusiastic than those flying for SK, I find a lot of the SK cabin crew old, tired and no longer interested in providing decent service.


User currently offlinechuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7434 times:

slightly off topic but:

Does anybody who maybe works at norwegian know the correct web address to order norwegian branded things?


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6915 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 16):
I'm sorry, but thats horse manure. Norwegian are loss making

Oh .. you're wrong.
Norwegian have made profits for the last 5 years.
It's only this first quarter of 2012 that has been a loss. But then again it seems like "every" airline on the planet have been struggling this quarter.
Passenger carried has been rising steadily while load factor rests on 80.


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6617 times:

How can a company with a market cap of 2.3bn buy something worth 127bn?

What was the total profit of Norwegian over the last five years? How many aircraft does that pay for?



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6610 times:

How can SAS buy new planes? Never shown profit for at least 5 years..

User currently onlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3306 posts, RR: 3
Reply 25, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6625 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia,reply=:


Well few people refers to Elkem as crap because they do not produce aluminium car frames, but just the raw materials?
Judging a product for not being what it never intended to be, is an ignorance not worth discussing further!

uh-hum, that was quite below the belt line......got a new employer since I hit a nerve?  

First of all: Norwegian is in the airline business, and they have a sort of frequent flyer program in the Norwegian Reward. My personal opinion is that this is worthless for frequent flyers, although you might disagree. Not what they do in the air, all though I always found their crew rather lazy, but that they ground service is not good enough for frequent flyers. Lounges is one thing, but not portanr, but their lack of fast track, internet/mobile check in and customer treatment. And this is why I avoid them when possible

But you know I'm always willing to discus this over a beer  

Norwegian tries to get the frequent business travellers, but so far they haven't done a good enough job convincing me


You might know more about this than me, but last time I checked Elkem doesn't produce aluminium, and neither do I see the relevance in this case?


User currently onlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3306 posts, RR: 3
Reply 26, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6579 times:

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 8):


I wouldn't be too worried. According to a source, the NEO's won't actually be flying for DY. Sorry, can't say more than that till they publically anounce their plans.  


Regards,

Hamlet69

I think many persons here should pay attention to your post  

Who says these will be flying for Norwegian

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 23):

How can a company with a market cap of 2.3bn buy something worth 127bn?

What was the total profit of Norwegian over the last five years? How many aircraft does that pay for?


Does God get peeved if you dont use a capital 'g' ?

This is irrelevant....even before you brought in religion. Never underestimat what you're able to finance


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 27, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6472 times:

Quoting someone83 (Reply 26):

Market capitalisation is irrelevant?

I keep forgetting that fiscal reality doesn't matter in Norway. Except in Greece the bill has to be paid at the end of the day.

Quoting sweair (Reply 24):

Perhaps answer my question with a question?

Sweair, how many aircraft does SK have on order?



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently onlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3306 posts, RR: 3
Reply 28, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 8):


I wouldn't be too worried. According to a source, the NEO's won't actually be flying for DY. Sorry, can't say more than that till they publically anounce their plans.  


Regards,

Hamlet69

I think many persons here should pay attention to your post  

Who says these will be flying for Norwegian

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 23):

How can a company with a market cap of 2.3bn buy something worth 127bn?

What was the total profit of Norwegian over the last five years? How many aircraft does that pay for?


Does God get peeved if you dont use a capital 'g' ?

This is irrelevant....even before you brought in religion. Never underestimat what you're able to finance


User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1916 posts, RR: 7
Reply 29, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6304 times:

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 8):
I wouldn't be too worried. According to a source, the NEO's won't actually be flying for DY. Sorry, can't say more than that till they publically anounce their plans.

Hmmm... There were some discussions in another thread about Finnair cooperating with Norwegian...

Cheers!   



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6214 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 23):
How can a company with a market cap of 2.3bn buy something worth 127bn?

What was the total profit of Norwegian over the last five years? How many aircraft does that pay for?

Market cap is not relevant. As long as you have cash-flow to pay for the expenses, there is no real problem. Few airlines chokes up all money from own pockets for aircraft purchase. There is normally a bank or leasing company involved. Aircrafts are not too difficult to finance as it is good collateral itself.



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12379 posts, RR: 47
Reply 31, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6009 times:
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Quoting bestwestern (Reply 23):
How can a company with a market cap of 2.3bn buy something worth 127bn?

What was the total profit of Norwegian over the last five years? How many aircraft does that pay for?

Seriously?

The same way that I'm able to buy a house - I can just about muster 10% of the purchase price from my savings, the rest I borrow and pay back from my cashflow. Doesn't any airline do exactly the same thing when buying planes? You don't think EK pays for all their planes from cash on hand, do you?

Another popular alternative for airlines is to buy the plane from the OEM, then sell it to a leasing company and lease the same frame back.

It's pretty straightforward.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2742 posts, RR: 2
Reply 32, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6018 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 27):
Market capitalisation is irrelevant?

Mostly. AA's market capitalization must be right now very close to zilch, yet they have some 400 outstanding aircraft orders.



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5684 times:

They will takes these frames over 10 years or more, like others posted, just putting a small amount of their own cash into them. They wont pay all that upfront. And the leasing firms handle most of the sums anyway.

SS has plans to buy some 50 new frames, they are even worse off financially, nobody doubts them, why is that? The endless deep taxpayer pocket?


User currently offlineHELyes From Finland, joined Oct 2010, 893 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5494 times:

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 29):
Hmmm... There were some discussions in another thread about Finnair cooperating with Norwegian...

Yes Finnair is looking for a partner to operate their European flights, AY and DY have been dating already before but nothing has come out. But who knows, AY even own a small slice of DY.


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5460 times:

Norwegian bought Fly Nordic that was owned by AY?

User currently offlineHELyes From Finland, joined Oct 2010, 893 posts, RR: 1
Reply 36, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5326 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 35):
Norwegian bought Fly Nordic that was owned by AY?

Yes thats how AY and DY "met", since that they have been in talks for co-operation but no success so far.


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7099 posts, RR: 3
Reply 37, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5087 times:

Quoting someone83 (Reply 26):
I think many persons here should pay attention to your post

Who says these will be flying for Norweg

That's a bummer I much prefer the A320 to the 737, mainly because it's easier to look out the window.


User currently offlineLN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1005 posts, RR: 4
Reply 38, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5090 times:

Look like a lot of hot and high departures here today.

As I see it, the A320neos can have two functions:
1. To safeguard access to new airframes if the B738MAX becomes B738lateMAX.
2. Airframes for joint ventures at the Asian and American ends of the intercontinental network to secure feed.

For Boeing to avoid embarrassing themselves, they need to deliver the goods on time - and the MAX need to be MAX not an overweight max. What will happen to the A320neos if Boeing manage deliver the MAX? We may well see some sort of American Air Shuttle and Thai Air Shuttle with local investors (according to local regulations) and they will use these A320neos from JFK and BKK. Am I right Hamlet69? Could it be existing US and Asian airlines that can be a joint venture partners?


User currently offlinepoLot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 39, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5049 times:

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 38):
We may well see some sort of American Air Shuttle and Thai Air Shuttle with local investors (according to local regulations) and they will use these A320neos from JFK and BKK. Am I right Hamlet69? Could it be existing US and Asian airlines that can be a joint venture partners?

It would be far easier, not to mention much less risky, to just partner with a current American/Asian airline than attempt to create their own. My guess based on his comment would be they (the Neos) will still be based in Europe, but not operating under the Norwegian brand name.


User currently offlineLN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1005 posts, RR: 4
Reply 40, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4998 times:

Quoting poLot (Reply 39):
It would be far easier, not to mention much less risky, to just partner with a current American/Asian airline than attempt to create their own. My guess based on his comment would be they (the Neos) will still be based in Europe, but not operating under the Norwegian brand name.

I don't think we can expect any answer from Hamlet69, either confirming or denying this. One thing is for sure, many surprises can be expected the coming years.


User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3834 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4751 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 10):
Again, how is Norwegian funding these aircraft?

For the 1000 th time ...

Foreign investmentbanks both in Europe and USA. The aircraftmanufacturaes themselves and Norwegian Air Shuttle. Just like most other airlines ...


User currently offlinelukeyboy95 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 1091 posts, RR: 32
Reply 42, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4594 times:

Norwegian might be in a good place to capitalise on an airbridge from Russia and onward into various European destinations. PAX still seem to pay a premium in this market.

Other close proximity airlines have been putting feelers into Russia because of geographic advantage,. - Aerosvit/ Air Baltic.

And it was commented that even some Finnish FR routes attract many Russian pax.



Breaking down the stereotypes - one by one
User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4562 times:

What kind of rellevance does Russia have here? Norwegian does not serve the Russian market except of two weekly to LED?

User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4412 times:

Yeah going forward Norwegian has a lot of tricks up its sleeve, its a very flexible operation, very modern structure. I think they will out last SAS for sure, not weighted down by unions and political crap.

User currently offlinepoLot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 45, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4124 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 43):
What kind of rellevance does Russia have here? Norwegian does not serve the Russian market except of two weekly to LED?

He was suggesting that Norwegian might be interested in expanding into Russia.


User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3834 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3892 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 3):
They will replace planes about 7 years between, its not like they will fly 200 at the same time.

Yes they will. Around 2020 Mr. Bjørn Kjos has stated that there will be around 220 Norwegian aircraft in the air  


User currently onlineeaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3774 times:

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 8):
I wouldn't be too worried. According to a source, the NEO's won't actually be flying for DY. Sorry, can't say more than that till they publically anounce their plans.

I wanted to share my idea about what I think Norwegian is going to do with their A320NEO's. Keep in mind that I am simply talking without any knowledge of this.

I think that they are going to set up base in Keflavik, Iceland and deploy them on the North-Atlantic in a LCC hub-and-spoke type of system where they will be able to serve perhaps 40 destinations in North America and 60 destinations in Europe. With an A320 you can make a lot of destinations work that don't work with a B767 or bigger (or even a B757). This would be the first true low cost carrier on the North-Atlantic that could make life difficult for the established carriers. They might even merge with or buy Icelandair.

Like I said this is just random speculation.

Here is the basic idea given assuming that the A320NEO can fly 3200nm on a daily basis. The highlighted area is 3200nm from KEF:


[Edited 2012-06-11 14:20:04]

User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3719 times:

Cool idea   You never know with those Norwegians  

User currently offlineLN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1005 posts, RR: 4
Reply 49, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3611 times:

But what about their B788s then eaa3?

User currently onlineeaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 49):
But what about their B788s then eaa3?

Like I said this is just a random idea that I have no reason to think might be reasonable. They´ll probably do something else. This is just what I think they should do.


With the B787 you could do a lot more from KEF. Add hub-and-spoke between North America and India and more places in Eurasia as well as destinations on the West Coast. Iceland is an unbeatable location for an LCC transatlantic hub-and-spoke system.



I've always found Norwegians 787 strategy to be strange. Let's keep in mind that SAS only has 11 long range planes (A330's and A340's) that operate from Oslo, Stockholm and Copenhagen. Norwegian plans to operate 8 787's from Oslo. Maybe they'll deploy them to Stockholm and Copenhagen as well but this is a huge fleet given today's long haul operations from these airports. And I don't see Oslo as a great place to connect if your going to mainland Europe. It's a bit out of the way. So I think that 8 planes is a bit much if your not planning to connect passengers to outside of Scandinavia.

I do however think that Norwegian is genuine in their intention to use their 787's from Oslo. I just think it's a little to optimistic. Keep in mind that most of SAS's losses come from their long haul operations.

Again with regard to KEF I'm just putting an idea out there that I have no reason to think that it's reasonable.

I don't wish, however, to hijack this thread with unrelated speculation.

[Edited 2012-06-11 17:17:15]

User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3834 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3518 times:

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 50):
I've always found Norwegians 787 strategy to be strange. Let's keep in mind that SAS only has 11 long range planes (A330's and A340's) that operate from Oslo, Stockholm and Copenhagen. Norwegian plans to operate 8 787's from Oslo. Maybe they'll deploy them to Stockholm and Copenhagen as well but this is a huge fleet given today's long haul operations from these airports. And I don't see Oslo as a great place to connect if your going to mainland Europe. It's a bit out of the way. So I think that 8 planes is a bit much if your not planning to connect passengers to outside of Scandinavia.

The 8 787 8's that they have on order is only what they have gotten their hands on at the moment. The CEO has indicated a number of 20 if everything is going well. The problem for Norwegian is that they have'nt been able to find enough 787's fast enough.


User currently offlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 699 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 50):
Let's keep in mind that SAS only has 11 long range planes (A330's and A340's) that operate from Oslo, Stockholm and Copenhagen. Norwegian plans to operate 8 787's from Oslo. Maybe they'll deploy them to Stockholm and Copenhagen as well but this is a huge fleet given today's long haul operations from these airports.

SK may not be the best comparison point. Most people flying long-haul out of Scandinavia select other carriers, BA, LH, AY. AY alone has 15 long-haul planes from one city. With a proper business plan, 8 aircraft is actually a very small number.

In any case, I love your Reykjavik idea. Lets hope they do it!


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 53, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3246 times:

Isn't Norwegian the low cost arm of the Air France group in Europe? Did I only dream this?

User currently offlineteme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3207 times:
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Quoting Burkhard (Reply 53):
Isn't Norwegian the low cost arm of the Air France group in Europe? Did I only dream this?

Yeah you saw a dream... AY owns 5% of DY  



Flying high and low
User currently offlineLN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1005 posts, RR: 4
Reply 55, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3126 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 53):
Isn't Norwegian the low cost arm of the Air France group in Europe? Did I only dream this?

You must be dreaming. Norwegian's 10 largest shareholders can be seen here: http://www.norwegian.com/uk/about-no...-relations/the-share/shareholders/

I case you are interested - Transavia is the LCC that is closely connected to the Air France Group.


User currently offlineCPHFF From Sweden, joined Aug 2011, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2756 times:

Will these new planes have better legroom ? ? ?

I flew DY 3580 CPH-PRG on a 738 this morning, and the legroom was really bad. I was lucky it was only a 1h 10 min flight, but I can't imagine spending + 5 hs ARN-DXB in than thing.

Loved the free Wi-Fi though   



Detroit is bankrupt. Don't forget to thank UAW folks!
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