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AS And New Sky Interior  
User currently offlineflybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6591 times:

Certainly a pleasant surprise flying from EWR to SEA on a brand new 738 a few weeks ago. Thank you to AS as well for the upgrade to seat 4A ( Gold).
Anyway, I was a little disappointed that with a brand new plane and a new interior there were no electrical outlets.
It is great to use Gogo, but on a 5 hour+ flight most laptops are going to run out of juice (yes you could have an extended battery or a second batter).
You'd think a new interior in 2012 - and especially in first class - would include an electrical outlet.

Yes? No?


Heia Norge!
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9382 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6558 times:

Quoting flybynight (Thread starter):

You'd think a new interior in 2012 - and especially in first class - would include an electrical outlet.

AS has banked on DigE players for entertainment. They have no outlets and no IFE. It saves cost from maintenance, lowers weight, and lowers the initial cost of the airplane. Gogo came in and sold them on the internet, but they still seem focused on portable IFE systems and not putting anything in the airplane to support them via power, audio, PTVs, or overhead screens.

I guess with Alaska you just have to bring a spare battery or use their players or read a book to pass the time.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinemd3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6541 times:

While I'd personally appreciate AC power onboard since my laptop battery lasts under an hour, I don't really expect any domestic airline to invest in it going forward.

More and more people are using personal devices with extended battery life. Plus, AS F provides free DigE Players, hey it's something. The initial investment costs plus maintenance and any additional weight gains probably make investing in AC power now a tough sell on paper.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2885 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6448 times:

Quoting md3 (Reply 2):
While I'd personally appreciate AC power onboard since my laptop battery lasts under an hour, I don't really expect any domestic airline to invest in it going forward.

More and more people are using personal devices with extended battery life. Plus, AS F provides free DigE Players, hey it's something. The initial investment costs plus maintenance and any additional weight gains probably make investing in AC power now a tough sell on paper.

I don't have these problems. My inflight entertainment doesn't need electrical power. It consists of good old fashioned paper - either in book or magazine form.

But yeah, apparently AS made a business decision on what to equip their new 738s with.


User currently offlinegreggariouspdx From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6406 times:
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I used to fly AS from PDX frequently but I think they offer an inferior First Class product, IMHO. The lack of power ports are a huge minus and their seats are tight. While this might not be a big deal on a short flight, a trip to the East Coast or Hawaii is really uncomfortable. AS also refuses to serve a PDB and the meals are hit-or-miss. AS has lost my West Coast business to Virgin America - a much more comfortable experience.

User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 794 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6334 times:

Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 4):

With VX's limited schedule and network, it may work for you but it won't work for most flying up front on AS.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13270 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6243 times:
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Quoting flybynight (Thread starter):
I was a little disappointed that with a brand new plane and a new interior there were no electrical outlets

As much as I've pointed out to senior leadership that I'd love to see electrical outlets onboard, particularly in First, there's ultimately not enough of a business case for them to justify the added weight penalty.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 829 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6243 times:

They've been studying whether or not to provide seat power for a few years...and the longer they've looked at the issue the less there has been a need for it. The savings on installation and weight just don't justify the need to have it on AS's route network.

We used to get complaints about the lack of seat power but it's been a long time since I've heard one. Most decent laptops these days are good for 4+ hours and AS's longest flights are about 5:30. Usable laptop usage time for a flight that long would be about 5 hours. Buy a second battery for $75 if you really need your laptop that last 30-60 minutes. The other factor is that so many people are now bringing their own PED's. A fully charged iPad will last 8-9 hours.


User currently onlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9382 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6156 times:

Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 4):
AS has lost my West Coast business to Virgin America - a much more comfortable experience.

I don't think anything short of a massive overhaul could get AS's First Class competitive with Virgin America. However if they tried, it would likely be a failure since they only compete with Virgin America on 5 routes and the rest of the network won't sustain that level of product.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 829 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6076 times:

I disagree...it wouldn't take much at all to upgrade FC to be comparable to VX. First take out all four rows of seats and replace just the first two rows with new seats. You want VX then you'll pay for that seat just like on VX...no upgrading. Add a footrest and massage feature and you're there. Hey, the service will be great too with only 8 of you up there instead of 16. Too bad you'll never get to sit there unless you pay. So which will it be?

User currently onlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9382 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5575 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 9):
I disagree...it wouldn't take much at all to upgrade FC to be comparable to VX. First take out all four rows of seats and replace just the first two rows with new seats. You want VX then you'll pay for that seat just like on VX...no upgrading. Add a footrest and massage feature and you're there. Hey, the service will be great too with only 8 of you up there instead of 16. Too bad you'll never get to sit there unless you pay. So which will it be?


So you propose removing seats and expecting revenue to go up to make up for lost seats? History shows that is not true in the US market outside of a few select premium transcontinental routes. Few passengers pay for F but the ability to reward MVP elites is worth it.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1044 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5419 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 10):
So you propose removing seats and expecting revenue to go up to make up for lost seats? History shows that is not true in the US market outside of a few select premium transcontinental routes. Few passengers pay for F but the ability to reward MVP elites is worth it.

Actually, on the majority of transcon and Hawaii flights The majority of passengers are in a paid F seat. Very few upgrades on these flights. On the west coast flights I would say the majority of F seats are filled with upgrades. Alaska is sort of in a catch 22 here. If they upgrade the F product they would have to really charge more for it to cover the costs. Doing that would likely reduce the number of paid F passengers willing to pay the FA fare - could they raise the fares high enough to cover the reduction in people willing to pay F? I don't think so. If Alaska stopped giving away much of their F product on the west coast in favor of only allowing paying customers to sit there they would very likely alienate a good number of their frequent flyers. Alaska has sort of hit the sweet spot. They manage to sell the majority of their F seats on their longer flights because they sell it for less than other airlines. The down side is that it's become a "hybrid" of business class and first class. I guess you really do get what you pay for... If the meager options from PDX on Virgin work for someones business travel then I guess I could see why they might consider flying Virgin vs. Alaska - especially if they're willing to pay for an F seat and aren't expecting a free upgrade.


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 829 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5207 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 10):
So you propose removing seats and expecting revenue to go up to make up for lost seats? History shows that is not true in the US market outside of a few select premium transcontinental routes. Few passengers pay for F but the ability to reward MVP elites is worth it.

Every other domestic major has probably double the FC seats of VX. With only 8 seats they're trying to make it more 'exclusive'...to the degree that it alienates their frequent fliers that can't get a big seat because they HAVE to sell those few seats. I think as ASFlyer stated, AS has found the sweet spot with 16 seats...they can offer a handful of seats for upgrades and sell the rest, thus paying for the added expense of having a FC cabin. And if the seat doesn't sell, elite mileage members get a free upgrade. Loyalty brings rewards and it should. What does VX offer their ff'ers? Main Cabin Select? Not the same.


User currently offlinegreggariouspdx From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3971 times:
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Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 7):
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 7):
been studying whether or not to provide seat power for a few years...and the longer they've looked at the issue the less there has been a need for it. The savings on installation and weight just don't justify the need to have it on AS's route network.

We used to get complaints about the lack of seat power but it's been a long time since I've heard one. Most decent laptops these days are good for 4+ hours and AS's longest flights are about 5:30. Usable laptop usage time for a flight that long would be about 5 hours. Buy a second battery for $75 if you really need your laptop that last 30-60 minutes. The other factor is that so many people are now bringing their own PED's. A fully charged iPad will last 8-9 hours.

I respectfully disagree with you here. I have a very decent laptop that has about a 3 hour battery life. Your suggestion that a First Class passenger shell out $75 for an additional laptop battery is not viable. Also, if you watch a DVD on your laptop, that eats up the battery much faster. I flew ANC-PDX recently and despite having a fully charged laptop, I didn't make it through a 2 hour movie. By contrast, I flew UA in First on the SEA-ANC route (the AS Goldmine) and enjoyed a better seat, a pre-departure beverage, a hearty meal, and a power port. All for a fare nearly $100 less !


User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13270 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3713 times:
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Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 13):
By contrast, I flew UA in First on the SEA-ANC route (the AS Goldmine) and enjoyed a better seat, a pre-departure beverage, a hearty meal, and a power port. All for a fare nearly $100 less !

And 1/16th of the selection of frequency, if I recall correctly.

[Edited 2012-06-09 18:25:05]


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1044 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3619 times:

Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 13):
Your suggestion that a First Class passenger shell out $75 for an additional laptop battery is not viable

Seriously? I don't even know what to say to this elitist statement. Who takes care of you when your not on an airplane?


User currently offlinegreggariouspdx From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3295 times:
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[quote=ASFlyer,reply=15]Seriously? I don't even know what to say to this elitist statement. Who takes care of you when your not on an airplane[/quot

I don't mean to sound elitest but my point is when you are shelling out $$ for a First Class seat, you should not have to worry about your laptop/dvd. etc running out of juice. If you fly WN or NK, you would not expect an amenity like a power port. But AS is not a LCC and what good is internet access if you can't charge your laptop ???


User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13270 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3256 times:
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Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 16):
I don't mean to sound elitest but my point is when you are shelling out $$ for a First Class seat, you should not have to worry about your laptop/dvd. etc running out of juice

Have you priced AS First Class vs. the competition? Generally, AS is priced far lower - in fact, on transcon markets, you can generally purchase full First Class on AS for half the price as AA, UA, DL or US. That's why they're typically sold out and seldom available for complimentary upgrades.

So grousing about the lack of power ports and having to shell out $40 to $60 one-time for an extra laptop battery to save an extra $600 each way every time you fly AS instead of the competition is a bit of a non-argument, frankly.

Or is that precious PDB really worth $600 to you?  



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinegreggariouspdx From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3153 times:
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Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
Or is that precious PDB really worth $600 to you?

Depends on the kind of day I'm having  


User currently offlineflybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2519 times:

Well AS is proud to offer Gogo.
I don't know what type of laptop you use, but unless you have an extended battery, you are not going to get much more than 2-3 hours of work time on your laptop without electricty. I feel somewhat cheated out of my Gogo time when I run out of "juice"

I can totally understand the business decision of keeping the electrical outlets out of first class (even more so the entire plane), but I am curious how much weight it adds to the plane? Maybe it could be offset against a more slim seat design?

And truly, if you supplied just first class I can't imagine the weight would be substantial.

And if I have to carry an extra batter what am I doing......adding weight!!



Heia Norge!
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5111 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2421 times:

Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 13):
I have a very decent laptop that has about a 3 hour battery life. Your suggestion that a First Class passenger shell out $75 for an additional laptop battery is not viable. Also, if you watch a DVD on your laptop, that eats up the battery much faster.

Not to argue whether or not AS should add power ports, but I'd think battery life would be a prime consideration in choosing a laptop for someone who frequently travels on long flights.

I have a powerful laptop with a battery that lasts about 5-6 hours for normal work and only slightly less if I'm watching movies (which are on my hard drive, not on bulky and noisy DVDs). That's not out of the ordinary these days.

[Edited 2012-06-22 15:28:18]


Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 829 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2184 times:

Quoting flybynight (Reply 19):
I can totally understand the business decision of keeping the electrical outlets out of first class (even more so the entire plane), but I am curious how much weight it adds to the plane? Maybe it could be offset against a more slim seat design?

I wish I could recall the number but it was quite substantial. Think about it....it's not just the plug at your seat but all the ancillary hardware as well. Heavy copper wire throughout the plane, transformers, substantial downtime for the installation....plus probably new seats to accomodate it all. Millions of dollars to retrofit the entire fleet I'm sure. It's not like adding inflight internet that 'only' requires an antenna, router and hookup to a/c power.


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