Fly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 964 posts, RR: 2 Posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3325 times:
Hey guys,
Just wanted to see what your views on this was? I saw that Ontario is still showing on their route map. I thought they would have wanted to wipe it off of their map...but its still there.
as739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5820 posts, RR: 23 Reply 1, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3243 times:
Nope. They did awful on the route. My wife worked the flight at least 10 times and it was never more then 75% full. And the CEO even admitted they underestimate the loyalty of AC passengers. There are numerous destinations that they can fly to that will do better the YYZ.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2046 posts, RR: 12 Reply 2, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2970 times:
There are 5 AC flights a day, up to 3 BA, and numerous charters to other centres in Britain than LHR. The route has been somewhat soft due to the British economy for the last few years and there just isn't the room for another carrier. Virgin came in with a premium approach and it just didn't resonate with enough business flyers. We will see how YVR does. Canadians travel in First Class less often, so that is why the Executive First for AC works well. Halfway between First and Business but with J Class fares. Without the First Class approach I don't see how Virgin can make itself stand out from the competition.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1835 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2959 times:
AS739BSI From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2899 times:
IAH and ATL to me are better fish to fry given there isn't too much competition to those airports from SFO and LAX. LAX-IAH is dominated by UA with a few AE departures in between. You also have WN going to HOU. SFO-IAH is nothing but UA with WN doing OAK-HOU. I think VX could probably add some much needed competition at IAH from SFO. LAX I am not sure if people would stick to AE RJs or would take the opportunity to switch over to a VX mainline. ATL you have FL and DL in both markets. VX would be nice to have in order to stimulate some fare competition. Now what I am not sure is if VX were to start these rotues would they be sustainable or do these markets already have more than sufficient capacity? I think IAH would be best right now given UA's troubles currently. ATL I am not so sure about.
YYZ I do not see happening given the load factors and the high taxes at Canadian airports.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 15 Reply 6, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2814 times:
I would expect that with all the potential new cities that VX probably has on their list for new routes (from LA and SF), we shouldn't expect to see any "do-overs". I would put the chances very close to zero that Virgin America would serve YYZ again for many years. (Same for SNA.)
LostSound From Canada, joined May 2012, 161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1753 times:
I think if VX was to return to Canada, it would probably be A319 service to YVR. YYZ is too expensive and the YVR-LAX route is dominated by loyal AC/WS passengers. However the YVR-LAX route, also pretty heavy, shows less single-airline devoted passengers.
ACT7 From Canada, joined Nov 2011, 96 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1421 times:
Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 2): There are 5 AC flights a day, up to 3 BA, and numerous charters to other centres in Britain than LHR. The route has been somewhat soft due to the British economy for the last few years and there just isn't the room for another carrier. Virgin came in with a premium approach and it just didn't resonate with enough business flyers. We will see how YVR does. Canadians travel in First Class less often, so that is why the Executive First for AC works well. Halfway between First and Business but with J Class fares. Without the First Class approach I don't see how Virgin can make itself stand out from the competition.
I know we're talking about VX and not VS, but VS startedto YYZ just before 9/11 and flew to LGW. Bad choice imo. There is always room for another premium carrier between YYZ-LHR.
VX I don't see happening either for a while. I don't see them even flying to YVR. That route is pretty saturated as it is, but now that VS flys there they may have some feeder traffic that they could capitalize on.
pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2046 posts, RR: 12 Reply 9, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1221 times:
Back in the day prior to WestJet becoming the size it is, Alaska started LAX-YYZ service. It was also portrayed as a premium service for no additional cost. I remember much ado being made over the better meal service, in flight movies, 2/3 across MDwhatevermodel service, etc. It didn't last long.
The biggest big wigs fly private. The next tier of First flyers are pretty slim. My point about the J Class vs. First Class still applies, in that Canadian businesses are more conservative and hence aren't likely to spring for a true First Class fare on a flight of that length. And if they are frequent fliers, chances are they are already tied into a FF plan, like Star Alliance or One World. If so those J class upgrades are addictive and status once achieved is hard to ingnore. So to truly compete you would have to match frequencies are at least come close. Offer to match status or better the incentive to fly on that route. All of which is very expensive and makes breaking in and getting a reasonable return difficult.
usflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1150 times:
I think if VX were to try to serve the Toronto area again they would just fly to BUF. It is much cheaper to operate from, has lower taxes, has no competition to LAX and SFO, and has quite generous incentives out for flights to the west coast.
OB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2966 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 878 times:
Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 10): I think if VX were to try to serve the Toronto area again they would just fly to BUF. It is much cheaper to operate from, has lower taxes, has no competition to LAX and SFO, and has quite generous incentives out for flights to the west coast.
This is effectively what Allegiant and Spirit do by serving IAG. The burden of an international crossing lies with the customer and thus results in greater simplicity for the airline.
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From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 964 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5820 posts, 
This is effectively what Allegiant and Spirit do by serving IAG. The burden of an international crossing lies with the customer and thus results in greater simplicity for the airline.
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