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Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?  
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1134 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12327 times:

Pretty straightforward question. They would seem to be an ideal candidate for Star membership, they have a good safety record and fly a modern fleet.

...so why not?

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined exactly 5 years ago today! , 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12332 times:

Wouldn't Utair be a more suitable candidate? After all some Star Alliance carriers are moving their operations to Vnukovo.

User currently offlinegkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24923 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 12131 times:

Aren't they pretty much a charter airline?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1134 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 12046 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 1):
After all some Star Alliance carriers are moving their operations to Vnukovo.

Only Lufthansa and 4U, I think. And they're still operating at DME, surely.


User currently offlineirshava From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11956 times:

Quoting gkirk (Reply 2):

Wow a charter airline with a fleet of 83 aircraft and 28 on order... impressive.  



“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
User currently offlineB738FlyUIA From Kazakhstan, joined Dec 2009, 555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11948 times:
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Quoting LOWS (Reply 3):
Only Lufthansa and 4U, I think. And they're still operating at DME, surely.

At the moment SQ still have there flights through DME on it's way Singapore to Houston. I think that LH has already some flight to Vnukovo. 4U has changed fully to VKO!

Hard to say if UN is really simply charter even they have some destinations that are only in Winter e.g. On the other hand they do have a very high Business Class!!

I'm sure that Sky Team is no question cause of SU out of SVO and Star Alliance is out of the question. For me it would be One World for sure!!! But only my guess!!!


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7394 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11901 times:

TransAero is rapidly expanding and I think they'd be a suitable member for Oneworld or *A. If they join Skyteam, that only spells one thing   


次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1134 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11734 times:

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 5):
tar Alliance is out of the question. For me it would be One World for sure!!! But only my guess!!!

Why? They already have S7. I figured it would be * or nothing.


User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11704 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 7):

But I'm pretty sure S7 doesn't do long haul.... Not an expert in Russain aviation but could S7 and Transaero merge? Giving Transaero a good short haul network, giving S7 a good long haul network. Could it work? If they are both in OW then each can compliment each other.


User currently offlineB738FlyUIA From Kazakhstan, joined Dec 2009, 555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11676 times:
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Quoting ju068 (Reply 1):
After all some Star Alliance carriers are moving their operations to Vnukovo.
Quoting LOWS (Reply 7):
Why? They already have S7. I figured it would be * or nothing.

Can be possible that Star will move fully to Vnukovo incl. SQ. And remember SQ had to reduce some flight on its Houston leg from daily to 4 or 5 a week. What ever the reason was I doubt that will enter Star.

Also UN has flights out of Vnukovo also.

Yes, S7 is OneWorld and there would be all the space for coming aircraft that are on order and have just been there in DME and building is going on!!!


User currently offlineFVTu134 From Russia, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9461 times:

Personally I think the Business model of UN is not really aligned with the typical Star Alliance carriers with a heavy portion of charter flying.

I personally hadn't heard about a potential move of LH to VKO. That would surprise me with DME being the absolute prime point of entry for Moscow (quality/comfort wise) and most carriers know it. There is a reason why carriers like UT Air which were heavily VKO dependent also started operations in DME.

With UTAir going through some renewal they could be looking at partnerships and the work they do towards Oil&Gas regions may bring Star some high paying/high mileage customers however the question is whether Star thinks that they are the right partner.

S7 is now integrated into OneWorld. I fly them several times monthly and still consider them the best carrier in Russia service wise. While I was surprised that Star let this one slip away (I know they were eying them) it is Star's loss and OneWorld's gain.

As an outside possibility, I would maybe consider Ural Airlines. They are now also heaviliy DME focussed and expending towards other cities. While they may not have the large fleet yet, they seem to be investing and flying modern equipment. Having never flown them myself I cannot say much about them apart from the fact that their airplanes look nice  

FVTu134



who decided that a Horizon should be HORIZONtal???
User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined exactly 5 years ago today! , 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9414 times:

In addition to Lufthansa and Germanwings, Turkish Airlines operates up to 19 weekly frequencies from Istanbul to Vnukovo. They also operate a daily flights from both Ankara and Antalya, but then I guess that the latter is a charter flight.

On the other hand you have 14 weekly frequencies operated by Lufthansa from Frankfurt, 14 from Dusseldorf and 12 flights from Tegel/Brandemburg.

Turkish Airlines and Lufthansa are the most important Star Alliance carriers in Europe and if both of them have so many frequencies then I guess we will see a clear shift of Star Alliance towards Vnukovo.

The interesting thing is that Transaero is adding some flights from Vnukovo. Regardless of that, I still think Utair is the better candidate for Star Alliance than Transaero.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8548 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9364 times:
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I think Transaero have a similar problem to VS. They are really two different airlines in one. A scheduled operation and a charter operation. If the charter part were to be spun off a merged UN/UT could be very attractive to Star. UN has a great safety record compared to most other Russian carriers, but unfortunately, from what I have read, their customer service record is not so great.


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineB738FlyUIA From Kazakhstan, joined Dec 2009, 555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9279 times:
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Quoting FVTu134 (Reply 10):
That would surprise me with DME being the absolute prime point of entry for Moscow (quality/comfort wise)

Yes, me too!!

Quoting ju068 (Reply 11):
Turkish Airlines and Lufthansa are the most important Star Alliance carriers in Europe and if both of them have so many frequencies then I guess we will see a clear shift of Star Alliance towards Vnukovo.

And what about LX? They have multiple flight from ZRH and GVA each day!

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 12):
but unfortunately, from what I have read, their customer service record is not so great.

Yes, I was reading this also, but made my own experience and was very good. Should take the chance and if then not under 8hours flight!


User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined exactly 5 years ago today! , 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9265 times:

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 13):

And what about LX? They have multiple flight from ZRH and GVA each day!

But Swiss operates to DME not VKO, the same as Austrian.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8548 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9209 times:
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Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 13):
Yes, I was reading this also, but made my own experience and was very good. Should take the chance and if then not under 8hours flight!

Thanks for that. It is always difficult to judge an airline which one has not yet flown as these things are quite subjective, I know that in the past I have been pleasantly surprised by airlines I wasn't expecting much of ( Iran Air for example ) and severely disappointed by airlines that others have raved about ( I found EK to be far below the image they present in their advertising, in fact in 3 sectors with them in J I had two completely unacceptable experiences , one in the air and one on the ground) .

If I am in Russia in the next few years I will probably try UN over the others for their safety record as much as anything.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineB738FlyUIA From Kazakhstan, joined Dec 2009, 555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9043 times:
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Quoting ju068 (Reply 14):
But Swiss operates to DME not VKO, the same as Austrian.

In this way it makes it clear & at the moment there are two flight's in to DME with LH (FRA & MUC).

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 15):
If I am in Russia in the next few years I will probably try UN over the others for their safety record as much as anything.

Should do and book it online... the offers are really good!!! I know that people complain about some services. As you on EX I had the same on SU even can't compare the companies on same level. Been on SU a couple of times but had my experience also like you. Not only on flight but on ground also!! But little off-topic now!!  


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2358 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8898 times:

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 8):
Not an expert in Russain aviation but could S7 and Transaero merge?

I proposed the same question in a previous thread, and the idea was rejected by the a.net "Russian" experts. My ideal scenario would be for S7 and UN to merge while SU switches to *A.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlinedazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8107 times:

The fact that several Star Alliance Airlines continue to have flights to DME is not relevant to the observation that after the inauguration of the new International Terminal, VKO was able to catch a substantional amount of LH and TK flights. Just like LH was one of the first movers from SVO to DME, this could be a clear sign that Star Alliance is checking out how VKO works from them. Quite understandably so as DME's has gone down the drain from the best Moscow Airport to the worst, if you ask me - at least regarding international flights. Bot VKO and SVO are more comfortable nowadays. Apart from that, it should be pretty well known that LH and UTAir already have a cooperation.

User currently offlineKVentz From Russia, joined Jun 2012, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8095 times:

Quoting LOWS (Thread starter):
...so why not?

UN's CEO Olga Pleshakova said they just do not need to join to any alliance by now. Indeed, UN grows so rapidly, any membership can slow them down.


User currently offlineKVentz From Russia, joined Jun 2012, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7746 times:

Quoting gkirk (Reply 2):

Aren't they pretty much a charter airline?

Not really...

Quoting LOWS (Reply 3):
Only Lufthansa and 4U, I think. And they're still operating at DME, surely.

LH has moved about a half of their flights to VKO (Berlin, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf) leaving Munich and Frankfurt in DME.
And you fort about TK. They have moved all their Moscow flights to VKO.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 11):
The interesting thing is that Transaero is adding some flights from Vnukovo.

Because DME can not hold them already, they grow much faster than DME capacity.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 14):
But Swiss operates to DME not VKO, the same as Austrian.

There are huge reconstruction works in VKO now: second part of terminal A, runway and apron massive reconstruction, new rapid-exit taxiways construction. All works should be finished this year. Let's see how the balance between DME, SVO and VKO all change next year.  


User currently offlinevegetables2001 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7564 times:

Why would they want to be member of an alliance?

The most successful airlines these days (EK/FR/SW) aren't.



A306,319,333 ATR72 BAC113/5, B703/704,717,721,732/3/4/5/7/8,741/1/4,757,763,773/E, DC8-6,9-3/5,10-30, DC106
User currently offlinedazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6420 times:

^ You realize those airlines have totally different business models, right?

Having said that, I am unsure what Transaero could gain through an Alliance membership. Seems for now they are better off without.


User currently offlineB738FlyUIA From Kazakhstan, joined Dec 2009, 555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6374 times:
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Quoting KVentz (Reply 20):
LH has moved about a half of their flights to VKO (Berlin, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf) leaving Munich and Frankfurt in DME.

Not all are in DME

FRA - DME

LH1444
LH1446
LH1448
LH1450

FRA - VKO

LH1470
LH1472

MUC - DME

LH2526
LH2528
LH2530

MUC - VKO

no flights


User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined exactly 5 years ago today! , 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6340 times:

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 23):

You forgot to add Berlin, they have almost double daily flights.
That means Lufthansa's operates up to 4 daily arrivals, I think that should make it a considerable international player in VKO.


25 Post contains images B738FlyUIA : Ok but getting slightly off-topic..
26 airevents : In my opinion, UT Air would be much better contribution to Star network wise. They have service to any major city in Russia (with the exception of the
27 redzeppelin : All of the Russian carriers will become much more attractive as alliance partners if and when Russia's visa regulations are relaxed. I think that leis
28 Post contains images B738FlyUIA : Agree with you!!! I had actually the same thought today about the Visa's. Getting some information from Russian Embassy here in Switzerland they told
29 LOWS : I think OS holds a stake in one of those. UIA, maybe?
30 redzeppelin : Russia allows visa-free transit in some situations. There is a maximum layover of 24 hours, you must arrive and depart from the same terminal, and no
31 B738FlyUIA : Yes, I do understand you!! In the end I did have the visa. The best is if you know that you will travel at least 4 or more times to or through SVO/DM
32 Post contains links redzeppelin : It is now posted: Comedy Of Errors: 2001 Ukraine Trip Retro Report (by redzeppelin Jun 20 2012 in Trip Reports)
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