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B6 Not Out Of The Question At DAB  
User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1043 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4417 times:

There have been a lot of talks between B6 and DAB in the last few months. In fact they have spoken multiple times since the beginning of the year. The most recent meeting was on Friday:

http://cfnews13.com/content/news/cfn.../daytona_beach_intern.html?cid=rss

Data suggests NYC as the top market for DAB travelers. I, myself am one of those people who make that possible as a resident of NY and frequent visitor to DAB. I have read past proposals by the airport that support Daytona Beach's argument for NY service. The E190 is a good fit for 2x daily service to DAB with potential upgrades to A320s during the busy periods (Spring Break, etc.). Don't rule DAB out yet.


In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4279 times:

Yep, as long as they offer good connecting times B6 will do fine

User currently offlinerl757pvd From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4718 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4236 times:

Every airport was in talks with jet blue last week... it was one of the two major airport/airline route networking conferences...


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinevatveng From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4015 times:

Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 2):
Every airport was in talks with jet blue last week...

PHF is pretty much begging JetBlue to come to Newport News. Even if PEX gets off the ground, it's going to be years before they will be able to bring traffic back up to AirTran levels. B6 could stimulate traffic much more quickly.



Visited VA,NC,PA,SC,FL,GA,OH,AL,TX,TN,CO,CA,UT,NV,NM,IN,KY,MD,MO,CT,MA,NH,ME.
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6537 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3995 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 1):
Yep, as long as they offer good connecting times B6 will do fine

What connecting cities are you looking for, to make this flight successful


User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 4):
What connecting cities are you looking for, to make this flight successful

I would think the northern feed cities:
BUF, ROC, SYR, BTV, PWM and maybe PIT.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3827 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 4):

The northeast. PIT,BTV,BUF,BOS,SYR,PWM etc..

U can't sit there and think that flight will only people coming directly from JFK And leaving DAB


User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3308 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3769 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 1):
Yep, as long as they offer good connecting times B6 will do fine

B6 can be much more productive with gates and staff at MCO, and is an hour away. For B6 to work, it'll need to generate a revenue premium over MCO flying. Can it?


User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3691 times:

Would DL throw service to JFK/LGA in to retaliate if B6 started up as a way to say "Not on our watch"?


Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

BOS-DAB is small, but I wonder if there would be a lot of leakage to MCO and maybe JAX. If Daytona Beach was the Spring Break destination it used to be, I'd say absolutely, but otherwise I don't think so.


2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineB777ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3430 times:

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 8):
Would DL throw service to JFK/LGA in to retaliate if B6 started up as a way to say "Not on our watch"?

I could see DL putting up a LGA-DAB-LGA flight, fare war with B6 to NY area, B6 gives up after months of this, DL then pulls LGA flight citing whatever lame excuse they will come up with, back to status quo. Rinse, lather, repeat......


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6537 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

Quoting B777ER (Reply 10):
I could see DL putting up a LGA-DAB-LGA flight, fare war with B6 to NY area, B6 gives up after months of this, DL then pulls LGA flight citing whatever lame excuse they will come up with, back to status quo. Rinse, lather, repeat......

If Delta did what you say, then they would have to be commended, as being a well run airline. After all, they are in business to make money and your example stated above, would be a good way to accomplish that.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3343 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 11):
After all, they are in business to make money and your example stated above, would be a good way to accomplish that.

Except that airlines have been doing this for the past 30 years and all it got them was a trip to bankruptcy....so maybe not such a good way to make money.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3337 times:

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9):
BOS-DAB is small, but I wonder if there would be a lot of leakage to MCO and maybe JAX. If

Yeah but B6 makes a lot of money and very good loads BOS to most of Florida. This is esspecially true for the 'snow birds' which is a much beigger market than drunken college kids (even though Boston is a huge college town).


User currently offlinerl757pvd From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4718 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3319 times:

For DAB-JFK I think B6 could hold their own against Delta compared to when DL and FL ran LGA flights. B6 has a solid brand recognition for their product on both ends. Decent enough O&D and enoguh connections to make 2x E190 work.

DAB-BOS I think it just too small. Best case scenario would be daily for Mid-Feb-Mid April and really there are probably better uses for their airplane that can generate higher yeilds. Sat Only BOS is probably the best case and most realistic scenario.

I am still of the oppinion that DAB-FLL could have some potential. Low fares will stimulate it for sure, plus a crowing number of connections.

An aircraft routing could do something like DAB-FLL-DAB-JFK-XXX-JFK-DAB-FLL-DAB



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1043 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3307 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 6):

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 4):

The northeast. PIT,BTV,BUF,BOS,SYR,PWM etc..

U can't sit there and think that flight will only people coming directly from JFK And leaving DAB

Absolutely correct. JetBlue's Upstate NY network will prove beneficial as well. I believe Upstate/Western NY is number 2 or 3 on DAB's most popular markets, NYC being first.

Quoting toltommy (Reply 7):
B6 can be much more productive with gates and staff at MCO, and is an hour away. For B6 to work, it'll need to generate a revenue premium over MCO flying. Can it?

As US Airways. They charge a hefty premium for DAB and seem to do just fine. They've been back in DAB for four years now.

MCO can hold it's own and adding DAB won't hurt their market at all. There is enough demand for NYC service out of DAB and JetBlue's route network is ideal, which is why AirTran failed and so did Delta back in '08, though now it may be a different story with their new LGA hub.

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 8):
Would DL throw service to JFK/LGA in to retaliate if B6 started up as a way to say "Not on our watch"?

JetBlue has done well going head to head with Delta. Who says this would be any different?



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6631 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3124 times:

Thats the same argument against SRQ------& yesterday B6 added SRQ-LGA------& yep, this winter DL brings back that route after 6 or so years.

Granted, the SRQ is larger than DAB area

Quoting toltommy (Reply 7):



I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3308 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 15):
As US Airways. They charge a hefty premium for DAB and seem to do just fine. They've been back in DAB for four years now.

Okay, good point, makes my argument well. Thanks.

But.....

How many seats can DAB support? Does the market currently have the right number of seats to keep fares at an attractive yield? Can any other entrant come into the market and not destroy the yield? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Not saying they shouldn't. Just saying it might not be as easy as some on here think.


User currently offlinebillreid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1048 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3097 times:

I would like to see it, because they deserve it!


Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1043 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 16):

Thats the same argument against SRQ------& yesterday B6 added SRQ-LGA------& yep, this winter DL brings back that route after 6 or so years.

Granted, the SRQ is larger than DAB area

But they are still sandwiched between TPA and RSW. They haven't lost out on much except FL because of the WN merger. B6 still flies to JFK and LGA now and Delta will fly to LGA as well. JetBlue has been doing rather well.

Quoting toltommy (Reply 17):
How many seats can DAB support? Does the market currently have the right number of seats to keep fares at an attractive yield? Can any other entrant come into the market and not destroy the yield? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Not saying they shouldn't. Just saying it might not be as easy as some on here think.

The amount of seats DAB can support will obviously vary by season. At minimum I would say DAB can support 2x daily E190s or maybe 1 daily and 1 except Tuesday and Wednesday to JFK which are the slowest travel days and maybe 2 daily A320s or a mix of E190s and A320s during the spring break season with many Northeastern JetBlue Destinations being near multiple college campuses. JFK-DAB on B6 will not solely rely on O&D which is why they should be able to make it work if they tweak the frequencies and aircraft depending on the season.

We also have to remember that MCO is 1.5 hours from DAB, the airport. DAB's area covers more than just Daytona Beach. They cover as far north as St. Johns and as far South as Cape Canaveral and they even infringe on MCO's area with Seminole County as well. People who have a choice between DAB and MCO will choose DAB when presented with that choice since it is much more easy to use.

[Edited 2012-06-12 19:59:34]


In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 2769 times:

Bringing this thread back because last Sunday's News-Journal has an article in which B6, along with AA, WN, G4, WS, AM, and Silver Airways are specifically named as airlines referred to as "prospects" which have been in discussions with the airport for service. The airport is also working with DL to add flights and/or upgauge equipment to offer more available seats.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/co...-international-airports-cooke.html

Another interesting point is the discussion about DL bringing bigger planes into DAB, ditching the typical CRJ/CR7/MD-88s in favor of 737(-800)s and 757s. While "ridership loads" (guessing this means load factor) normally go down when this happens, loads actually increased for DAB.

[Edited 2012-06-27 18:44:37]


Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 13 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 20):
Bringing this thread back because last Sunday's News-Journal has an article in which B6, along with AA, WN, G4, WS, AM, and Silver Airways are specifically named as airlines referred to as "prospects" which have been in discussions with the airport for service. The airport is also working with DL to add flights and/or upgauge equipment to offer more available seats.

I knew Steve Cooke from back when I was out in Daytona, my classes at Riddle did a few projects with him - he is a really nice guy that was always working hard to bring airlines into DAB. He was hitting the jackpot my last year at Riddle when he landed United, Air Tran and later USAirways as well as got bigger planes with Continental and Delta. But then the recession hit.

Jet Blue has been talked about at DAB for almost 10 years now. David Neeleman used to use JFK-DAB as an example of where they would fly the E190, but it never materialized. AA used to fly there until the late 1990s when GE pulled out and RDU closed the AA hub (where AA flew from DAB). As a matter of fact as recently as 2006, American still was leasing a gate at DAB because they were on a long term lease. I could see at least Eagle doing one or 2 E145 flights to MIA daily to meet connections. Southwest I just don't see going there unless DAB can expand their terminal (which could be built out to I believe 16 gates total (I think they can add 2 more on the current 6 and another pier could be built to the east for another 8). Southwest would want to expand pretty big at DAB, but with MCO and JAX nearby probably not unless the economy gets really good. I don't see Allegiant with SFB so close. I could see WS flying there if they used E190s but a 737 is too big for I think even a seasonal flight. AMX is the one that shocks me. They don't even fly to TPA, which could support them more than DAB - that one seems too far fetched. I actually could see a European charter coming back before AMX goes there. Silver Airways would be good there - could see flights maybe to TLH, TPA and FLL. Are there any flights to the Bahamas anymore from DAB? When I was there they used to have a few daily flights on King Airs and a B1900 on Vintage Props and Jets but I think they went belly up not long ago.


User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1043 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 2652 times:

I have a strong feeling that if DAB sees a new carrier anytime soon, it will be B6 with JFK service. United is under CO management, and CO left DAB on not so great terms, as did United. Don't expect that airline to be in DAB for a while. AA is in BK, they have other issues to sort out. Delta is doing great at DAB now and I'm glad to see they eliminated the RJ service that plagued the airport for over a decade. DAB used to be a mainline-only station and now they are back to that point. US Airways has been back in DAB for 4 years now. They went quickly from E175s back to CRJs but now CR7s are the norm with upgrades to the CR9 during better seasons and mainline for races. The next new airline at DAB would almost without a doubt be JetBlue.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 21):
I knew Steve Cooke from back when I was out in Daytona

He is a great guy. I had emailed him back and forth for years since I was 13 (I'll be 22 in 3 weeks) and finally met him in person for Delta's 30th Anniversary Celebration that they threw in the terminal. I told him who I was and he immediately knew the connection. I think very highly of this man and I know he can get the job done with the airport.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6537 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 7 hours ago) and read 2610 times:

Quoting B777ER (Reply 10):
I could see DL putting up a LGA-DAB-LGA flight, fare war with B6 to NY area, B6 gives up after months of this, DL then pulls LGA flight citing whatever lame excuse they will come up with, back to status quo. Rinse, lather, repeat......

Looks like a smart thing for Delta to do, to protect their turf.


User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1043 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 2541 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 23):
Looks like a smart thing for Delta to do, to protect their turf.

I don't see B6 giving up so easily. They compete well with Delta...



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
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