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Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25784 posts, RR: 50
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4128 times:

In further sign of the the Virgin carriers more closely aligning themselves, Virgin America and Virgin Australia joint filed with the DOT for permission to commence joint codeshare services.

Per the application, and consistent with open-skies agreements, the Virgin Australia plans to place its VA designator code on services operated by Virgin America within the United States in conjunction with foreign itineraries.

Carriers state they intend to commence codeshare services in July via points to/from Los Angeles.


OST-2012-0095


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1973 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4127 times:

I thought that was the whole point to starting the "Virgin" group of airlines to begin with?


My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17671 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4042 times:

How does the DL JV fit into this?


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinenycdave From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 1):

I thought that was the whole point to starting the "Virgin" group of airlines to begin with?

Not at all. Due to national laws and restrictions at the time of formation, codesharing was at most a future possibility going into business. No, each was formed as a business, aiming for profit, largely due to Richard Branson having some inexplicable (from a business standpoint) love of commercial aviation! The very different services/niches filled by the various Virgin carriers ought to be proof enough that, while under the same global brand, they were/(are) independent businesses with different strategies... Which are increasingly harmonizing offerings across the brands, in anticipation of further global integration.


User currently offlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3766 times:

Interesting indeed, I must confess I wonder why it took them so long; It took them a while to establish an interline agreement, and thus far they only do bags not boarding passes. I hope we see more synergies between the airlines both operationally and marketing activities.

Minor segway... anyone have any ideas how long the DJ designator will be around before the whole company becomes VA?


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 1):
I thought that was the whole point to starting the "Virgin" group of airlines to begin with?

Again! There is NO such thing as a "Virgin" group of airlines in the normal way we use the word "group". Each is "independently owned & operated". There was no master plan to form a group of airlines, (at least up to Virgin America, I don't know why that was started) each was started as a response to specific local conditions in the local political/economic environment.

The only thing they have in common is that they license the brand name "Virgin" from the Virgin Group in the UK, there is no requirement in that license for them to cooperate with other "Virgin" branded airlines(AFAIK), so expecting them to act like they were a true group is unrealistic. That said this greater cooperation is a good step in the right direction.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 843 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3461 times:

Hopefully we'll see codesharing between VX and VS very soon, as well as recognition of FF status on each airline. All good things.

I wonder what this means, if anything, for alliance membership?


User currently offlineBA677 From UK - England, joined Jan 2012, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3136 times:

You can already earn miles on Virgin America and Virgin Australia when you are a member of the Virgin Atlantic FF program (Flying club)

User currently offlineryu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3057 times:

Why doesn't Virgin Australia start SFO service, since it's the main hub for Virgin America?

User currently offlineN659AA From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3029 times:

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 4):
Minor segway... anyone have any ideas how long the DJ designator will be around before the whole company becomes VA?

The DJ code will be retired when the carrier converts to the Sabre Reservations System (PSS) later this year or early-2012


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17671 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 8):
Why doesn't Virgin Australia start SFO service, since it's the main hub for Virgin America?

Because they already fly to LAX where they partner w/ DL who covers probably 5x as many destinations?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 843 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2823 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 8):
Why doesn't Virgin Australia start SFO service, since it's the main hub for Virgin America?

Because they already fly to LAX where they partner w/ DL who covers probably 5x as many destinations?

Doesn't mean it's not coming though.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25784 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

Sure one day they could end up in SFO, however keep in mind LA is a much larger local market to/from Australia.
Add in the bonus feed from DL and now VX @ LAX, its only tips the scales even further.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2638 times:

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 8):
Why doesn't Virgin Australia start SFO service, since it's the main hub for Virgin America?

As far as I'm concerned, there is no reason the Virgin group of airlines should for their own alliance, and feed each others flights. We just need a VS flight to S. America, and a scissor hub city to work from. I could see Virgin Australia heading to SFO, and give some competition to UA, since QF pulled out. UA is very complacent on that route, IMHO.



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User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5264 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 8):
Why doesn't Virgin Australia start SFO service, since it's the main hub for Virgin America?

And LAX seems to have just as many VX flights as SFO these days.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Sure one day they could end up in SFO, however keep in mind LA is a much larger local market to/from Australia.
Add in the bonus feed from DL and now VX @ LAX, its only tips the scales even further.

But isn't it an over-saturation out of LAX ?

LAX-SYD (5x) : QFx2, VA, UA, DL
SFO-SYD (1x) : UA monopoly (ever since QF handed the keys to the kingdom over)


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25784 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 15):
But isn't it an over-saturation out of LAX ?

Probably not as airlines seem to fill them and continue adding more.

Look at other markets, NRT, LHR, ICN, TPE, etc with much higher competition and frequencies out of LAX vs SFO.

In reality SF has too much capacity for its local market, and hence why almost 50% of UA Pacific enplanements is connection feed.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2428 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
In reality SF has too much capacity for its local market, and hence why almost 50% of UA Pacific enplanements is connection feed.

What's the source of this statistic ? And what's the equivalent metric for LAX (UA or total) ?


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17671 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2372 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 15):
since QF handed the keys to the kingdom over)

Seeing as QF's international "kingdom" is allegedly losing hundreds of millions of dollars annually, and of all the routes to cancel QF chose SFO, I can't imagine it's something anyone is rushing to pick up.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2320 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
Seeing as QF's international "kingdom" is allegedly losing hundreds of millions of dollars annually, and of all the routes to cancel QF chose SFO, I can't imagine it's something anyone is rushing to pick up.

"Kingdom" was referring to the gravy train of SFO-SYD that UA can now price gouge as they please, not QF's network

Funny you mention that since QF defenders all insist that SFOSYD was printing cash left and right for QF, but somehow they're willing to murder a cash cow in order to start DFW


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25784 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2193 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 17):
What's the source of this statistic ? And what's the equivalent metric for LAX (UA or total)

You can ultimately derive it from DOT stats, but my number was from a "Hub Profile" that was produced as part of the merger workup analysis.

More specifically for SFO in 2009 mere 43.1% of about 7mil United enplanements were local compared with 79.4% of the 5.6mil at LAX.

Some UA SFO routes had connectivity rates as high as 75-80% range, for example SEA where 82% of customers to/from SEA connected to another flight. Very few UA SFO flights actually were under the 50% mark - MCO, JFK, BOS being notables. Compared to LAX, where it was almost reverse, with the bulk of enplanements being local, and only a few flights having very high component of connections - Hawaii and some UAX being those.

Ultimately, SFO as with IAD has flying that is significantly oversized for its local market, and must rely on feed to maintain its size.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 19):
"Kingdom" was referring to the gravy train of SFO-SYD that UA can now price gouge as they please, not QF's network

United does not operate in a vacuum. Segment pricing is still competitive as you have other carriers in the market still. For example NZ, VA, QF, DL, HA, etc all offer SFO-SYD fares which keeps things competitive.

[Edited 2012-06-14 22:06:39]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17671 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 19):
Funny you mention that since QF defenders all insist that SFOSYD was printing cash left and right for QF, but somehow they're willing to murder a cash cow in order to start DFW

As a general rule, airlines don't cancel profitable flying, no matter what anyone on a.net says.



E pur si muove -Galileo
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