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Delta's Plans For Ex NW Narrowbodies  
User currently offlinedeltajfk From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 16 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 15987 times:

Its been about two years since the last topic on this subject. Earlier i was looking on SeatGuru and it says that no ex northwest aircraft have any inflight entertainment except Wifi. I would think that they would want to have a consistant product throughout their entire fleet. I have flown on Delta's aircraft with Avod and some of the ex NW A320's. Going from having Avod to nothing is a big disappointment. With the obvious exceptions being the MD-88's for weight issues. Whats stopping them from adding Ptv's to the A320's and 757's?

87 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6586 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 15957 times:

Quoting deltajfk (Thread starter):
Its been about two years since the last topic on this subject. Earlier i was looking on SeatGuru and it says that no ex northwest aircraft have any inflight entertainment except Wifi. I would think that they would want to have a consistant product throughout their entire fleet. I have flown on Delta's aircraft with Avod and some of the ex NW A320's. Going from having Avod to nothing is a big disappointment. With the obvious exceptions being the MD-88's for weight issues. Whats stopping them from adding Ptv's to the A320's and 757's?

Currently, plans to add AVOD to existing domestic aircraft are on hold due to high fuel prices. However, the 737-900ERs should come with AVOD from the factory, and I'd expect they will replace all of the 5500-series ex-NW 752s as well as some older PMDL 752s.

And actually, the 753s do have IFE, although it is overhead video rather than AVOD.

[Edited 2012-06-12 13:36:28]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7757 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 15918 times:

Some of the older 757s, A319/20s, and 738s (DL aircraft) are being replaced with the order of 100 739s. This will begin next year. Also the addition of the 717s is going to replace some of the older A319s as well. I do not see DL purchasing any more Airbus aircraft any time in the near future. If anything, the 787s will be dropped and replaced with GEnx-powered ones, and more 73Xs will be ordered, most likely the 738MAX IMO.


我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinetimf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 970 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 15739 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Also the addition of the 717s is going to replace some of the older A319s as well.

I will believe this when I see it. The A319s are newer than most of the domestic fleet, with the oldest aircraft dating from 1999. The 717s are supposed to replace the DC-9-50s and regional jets.


User currently offlinedeltajfk From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 15738 times:

I saw in another post that the oldest A319 is from 1999 if so then wouldn't it be a waste getting rid of some of them

User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5620 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 15682 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Also the addition of the 717s is going to replace some of the older A319s as well.

I doubt this.

Here's my current understanding of what will happen to the ex-NW narrowbody fleet, in general:

DC-9-50s: Replaced by 717, assuming deal goes through.
A319s: staying around indefinitely, probably for replacement in the 2020s with neo or MAX.
A320s (newer batch): see above.
A320s (older batch): Capacity replaced by 739ER order.
757s (5500s): Capacity replaced by 739ER order.
757s (5600s): staying around indefinitely, probably for replacement around 2020 with neo or MAX.
757s (5600s Atlantic): Moving to domestic ETOPS fleet, staying around indefinitely.
757-300s: staying around indefinitely; invaluable for Hawaii missions.

To the extent that the 717s replace capacity from aircraft other than DC-9-50s, those aircraft will be 1) 50-seat regionals beyond those replaced by the new 76-seaters and 2) MD-88s.

[Edited 2012-06-12 14:06:58]

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9559 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 15658 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
738s (DL aircraft) are being replaced with the order of 100 739s. This will begin next year

No 738s will be replace. 767s, 757s and A320s.

Quoting deltajfk (Reply 4):

um yeah, 10x when you replace them with aircraft that are just as old or older.

Quoting timf (Reply 3):

You wont see it. Little busses will stay around for a while.



yep.
User currently offlineJosh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 15578 times:

Quoting deltajfk (Thread starter):
Whats stopping them from adding Ptv's to the A320's and 757's?

Not worth the cost


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8640 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 15539 times:

Quoting timf (Reply 3):
The A319s are newer than most of the domestic fleet, with the oldest aircraft dating from 1999. The 717s are supposed to replace the DC-9-50s and regional jets.

You are aware that DL uses ~120 seat DC-9-50s a a replacement for ~120 seat A319s NW rejected... right?  

[Edited 2012-06-12 14:21:16]

User currently offlinen515cr From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 15038 times:

Back to the 757s, there was an older thread that outlined all the sub-types and the plans at the time (2010ish, I think) for each. It may have been archived by now.

If there are plans to try to standardize on a few types, that would be interesting news, but it seems that the 739 order will replace many of the older ones. Those happen to be the ones without AVOD and whose longest flights are transcons, so it has an effect of standardization.


User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1250 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14980 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 5):
A320s (older batch): Capacity replaced by 739ER order.

The oldest 320 are roughly the same age as the M88. As an older 320 remains significantly more efficient to operate than an M88 approximately the same age, I have a hard time believing DL will retire the former before the latter.

Quoting n515cr (Reply 9):
Those happen to be the ones without AVOD and whose longest flights are transcons, so it has an effect of standardization.

There's about 100 757 without AVOD, and several earlier deliveries with AVOD, so that's not likely to happen.

DL hasn't given its definite fleet plan yet, and those plans are likely volatile to changing economic conditions.

[Edited 2012-06-12 16:57:28]


Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6586 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14893 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 10):
There's about 100 757 without AVOD, and several earlier deliveries with AVOD, so that's not likely to happen.

DL hasn't given its definite fleet plan yet, and those plans are likely volatile to changing economic conditions.

If any AVOD aircraft are retired, I hope Delta transplants their seats and IFE systems onto newer 757s that currently lack AVOD (such as the 5600-series). This is similar to what DL did when some of the domestic 763s were returned to the lessor, transplanting their seats and IFE onto the 76Ts.

[Edited 2012-06-12 17:07:11]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinen515cr From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14876 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 10):
There's about 100 757 without AVOD, and several earlier deliveries with AVOD, so that's not likely to happen.

Agreed - I didn't mean 100% replacement/standardization, just a decent percentage. Sorry for the confusion.  Smile

[Edited 2012-06-12 17:09:22]

User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6586 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14836 times:

Quoting n515cr (Reply 12):
Agreed - I didn't mean 100% replacement/standardization, just a decent percentage.

Interestingly, N610DL (the former Pink 757):

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Photo © Agustin Anaya
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Photo © Alex Khan



is a 1985 build. I'd expect this would be one of the aircraft slated for replacement.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinecat3dual From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14810 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 10):
The oldest 320 are roughly the same age as the M88. As an older 320 remains significantly more efficient to operate than an M88 approximately the same age, I have a hard time believing DL will retire the former before the latter.

Do you have any basis and/or proof that, in Delta's case, the A320 is "significantly" more efficient to operate than the MD-88?


User currently offlinecat3dual From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14777 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
738s (DL aircraft) are being replaced with the order of 100 739s.

This statement is 100% non-factual.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9559 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14712 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 8):

How? Delta has been parking those 9s and the 319s are staying the same.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 10):
The oldest 320 are roughly the same age as the M88. As an older 320 remains significantly more efficient to operate than an M88 approximately the same age, I have a hard time believing DL will retire the former before the latter.

So Richard Anderson doesn't tell the truth?
"The new planes will replace Delta workhorses such as the DC-9-50s and Airbus A320s that it got when it bought Northwest Airlines in 2008, as well as Boeing 757-200s, which both airlines have operated. The average age of Delta's planes is 16 years. It has some Boeing planes that are less than two years old. But its DC-9s date back to the 1970s. They are the oldest commercial passenger planes flown today by a U.S. airline."


early 320s are getting ready to cycle out. Same reason why the ones NW dumped during BK were parted out and not moved like the 319s.



yep.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7757 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14697 times:

Quoting cat3dual (Reply 15):
This statement is 100% non-factual.
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
No 738s will be replace.
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 5):
I doubt this.
Quoting timf (Reply 3):
I will believe this when I see it

Ok I heard all of you the first time. I got my sources mixed up and I'm doing a million things at once.

To review- the older 320s and the older 757s are being replaced by 739s. DC95 being replaced by 717. There we go.

I have no clue what's going to happen to the older 767s, in particular the non-ER models. I think that's all bent on when DL decides to take delivery of the 787 which it's starting to look like it's gonna be another 7-8 years before that happens.

Also: I know DL likes the 330s, but what do they think about the 319/320?


[Edited 2012-06-12 17:32:38]

[Edited 2012-06-12 17:34:02]


我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1250 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14549 times:

Quoting cat3dual (Reply 14):
Do you have any basis and/or proof that, in Delta's case, the A320 is "significantly" more efficient to operate than the MD-88?

The 320 is a significantly more efficient aircraft to operate than the MD-82 (88). Do you have any basis and/or proof to suggest that, in DL's case, the MD-82 (88) suddenly became significantly more efficient to operate than the 320? Did DL install some magical upgrade to its MD-88?  DL, via NW, has been operating the type for more than 20 years and currently has one of the world's largest fleets of Airbus narrowbodies.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 16):
So Richard Anderson doesn't tell the truth?

He was making a general, not definite, statement. With high-priced fuel here to stay, I find it hard to believe that DL will phase out nearly 50 A320 while maintaining a fleet of nearly 150 MD-82 (88). The DL pro-Boeing crowd here maintains the longevity of the 320 is limited, but there's no proof to support such statement.

At this point, no definite fleet strategy has been released. Until such happens, I wouldn't cling to a general statement.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 16):
Same reason why the ones NW dumped during BK were parted out and not moved like the 319s.

That's not the reason NW dumped those 319/320 during bankruptcy. It's just another logical fallacy dominating a.net.

EDIT (because I read your statement wrong): If you want to know why those aircraft were parted out, as opposed to being moved to a new operator, I suggest you sign up for Accounting 101 at your local community college. You may learn a thing or two  Wink.

[Edited 2012-06-12 18:08:12]


Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8640 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14483 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 10):
The oldest 320 are roughly the same age as the M88. As an older 320 remains significantly more efficient to operate than an M88 approximately the same age, I have a hard time believing DL will retire the former before the latter.

Old A320s may be efficient but NW's would be running up against hours limits. They are scrappable. Airbus parts bring money.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 16):
How? Delta has been parking those 9s and the 319s are staying the same.

I understand an analysis was done at NW Tech Ops and the D95 was cheaper to fly on short hops. Newer isn't always better. So, those A319 (still newish aircraft) were sent away.


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5620 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14427 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 17):
I have no clue what's going to happen to the older 767s, in particular the non-ER models.

Non-ETOPS A models: Capacity replaced by 739ERs, with gauge adjustments to transcon routes as needed.
ETOPS A models: Will probably stick around until the 787 arrives. These craft are newer than the non-ETOPS frames and there's no good replacement on the immediate horizon.
ERs: Will all get a completely new interior and stick around at least until the 787 arrives.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 17):
what do they think about the 319/320?

They like the 320 just fine, despite the fevered wishes of some fanboys. The 319 was problematic at first because it didn't have enough seats, but is making the airline happier after being reconfigured.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 18):
That's not the reason NW dumped those 319/320 during bankruptcy. It's just another logical fallacy dominating a.net.

   High lease payments will sure change the economics of a type.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 18):
The DL pro-Boeing crowd here maintains the longevity of the 320 is limited, but there's no proof to support such statement.

Well, the MD-88 has a significantly higher design cycle life than the A320 (80,000 vs. 48,000). Airbus was planning to increase A320 design life but I haven't heard that the higher number has been certified. DL's earlier A320s are starting to approach the limit.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 16):
early 320s are getting ready to cycle out.

  ... but the later ones are good to go for at least a decade.

[Edited 2012-06-12 18:20:20]

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9559 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14396 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 18):

He was making a general, not definite, statement. With high-priced fuel here to stay, I find it hard to believe that DL will phase out nearly 50 A320 while maintaining a fleet of nearly 150 MD-82 (88). The DL pro-Boeing crowd here maintains the longevity of the 320 is limited, but there's no proof to support such statement.

ok, few things, 1) Delta only has 117 M88s. 2) Its not proBoeing. Its all Airbus. they set the cycle limits on airplanes.
the early A320 cycle limits are in the high 30K low 40K range(I do however believe AB has them up to the 60K range now). Where the MD88s are in the high 50K low 60K ball park. This isn't airbus vs Boeing, and has nothing to do with Boeing. Its a simple fact Douglas planes are tanks. (you wont see a 737 or a A320 with 120K cycles like the 9)

Or you can keep saying I'm wrong and I'll be happy to bring this up with 320s start heading to VCV and the 88s are getting new cockpits and still flying. Which ever way works for me.  
Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 18):

That's not the reason NW dumped those 319/320 during bankruptcy

Dude you need to work on your reading skills. I'll try this again,
Same reason why the ones NW dumped during BK were parted out and not moved like the 319s.

Read it a few times, slowly. I didn't say they were dumped because they were old, I said once they were dumped they were parted out.....because they were old. The much younger A319s were sold to a new company.



yep.
User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1250 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14378 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 19):
I understand an analysis was done at NW Tech Ops and the D95 was cheaper to fly on short hops. Newer isn't always better. So, those A319 (still newish aircraft) were sent away.

When NW did its "anaysis," nobody thought fuel would soar to ~$100/barrel and stay there indefinitely. Had that been the case, a more aggressive attempt may have been made to keep the 319/320 disposed of ink bankruptcy.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 19):
Old A320s may be efficient but NW's would be running up against hours limits. They are scrappable. Airbus parts bring money.

Aircraft longevity is generally measured in cycles. NW's 320 have spent most of their performing longer stage lengths, while the DC-9, MD-82 (until 1999) and 72S (until 2003) performed shorter stage lengths. Today, DL is predominately deploying the 320 on longer stage lengths. Until a credible source proves otherwise, I don't buy into the "myth" that Airbus narrow-bodies have shorter lifespans than their Boeing counterparts.

I wholly agree that the salvageable value of the 320 will be taken into consideration against its operating economics vs. the MD-80. But I strongly believe the salvageable value won't be as strong as the savings vs. operating against the MD-80. That's not to say such examples will be removed from service; but as a whole, I doubt DL will WFU nearly 50 A320 while maintaining 150 MD-80. It just doesn't make much sense.



Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5620 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14326 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 22):
Aircraft longevity is generally measured in cycles. NW's 320 have spent most of their performing longer stage lengths, while the DC-9, MD-82 (until 1999) and 72S (until 2003) performed shorter stage lengths.

Nevertheless, the first batch of A320s are 22-24 years old and have had very heavy utilization throughout that span, not always on long flights. The reason that 739ERs are replacing A320s and not MD-88s is because those older A320s are approaching the cycle limit. You can verify this by doing the math.


User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1250 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14209 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 21):
Its all Airbus. they set the cycle limits on airplanes.
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 23):
The reason that 739ERs are replacing A320s and not MD-88s is because those older A320s are approaching the cycle limit. You can verify this by doing the math.

Has Airbus abandoned its Extended Service Goal program for the 320?

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 21):
Read it a few times, slowly.

Unless it took you 20 minutes to construct that post, you probably read my edit   (my last edit was to correct spelling).



Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
25 DeltaL1011man : very true. The 30? late builds will be around for 10 more years. wow. Google it. smh. Not hard....
26 CompensateMe : I did, and it appears Airbus is still working on the ESG for the 320 family. No surprise, it has every incentive to do so.
27 tommy767 : 738s are not going anywhere. I think the first that will be send to the desert are the 5500 series 757s and early A320s. The A320s are cycle sensitiv
28 dbo861 : Are these airframes as close to the end of their useful lives as people make them sound on a.net? If there's still another 2-3 years left in these bi
29 PSU.DTW.SCE : This is essentially the story. All aircraft are planning to stay in the fleet until the end of their usable life (as of now, as always subject to cha
30 DeltaL1011man : didn't see your edit, but its was most economic to scrap them vs sell them. but why do you think that is? I'm not saying this because I hate the 320,
31 CompensateMe : It's suppose to increase cycles. This is consistent with other aircraft types, which have seen their maximum cycles increase as the type aged. Fleet
32 Flighty : These are two well worn fleets. They will both be leaving. Delta enjoys a dividend from its own Tech Ops expertise. It can operate M90s and M88s as f
33 CompensateMe : The MD-90 are modern aircraft, the MD-80 have significant disadvantages toward next-generation narrow bodies including the MD-90, 737-NG and A320 fam
34 KC135TopBoom : Airbus upgraded the life cycle of the A-32X series a few years ago to 120,000 hours and 60,000 cycles. The original life cycle was 60,000 hours and 30
35 bobnwa : At the risk of offending the AVOD cheerleaders on this forum, I totally agree with your statement.
36 CompensateMe : The oldest 320 remaining in DL's fleet were manufactured in 1990-1993 (heavy in 1992 & 1993 deliveries); many of these aircraft spent extensive t
37 DTWPurserBoy : When NW entered Chapter 11 they renegotiated the lease prices down on most aircraft. The banks did not want to sit on a few billion dollars worth of
38 seabosdca : I'm not sure about either your DSG number or your math. The latest DSG I've seen for the A320 is 48,000 cycles. The birds are actually in the 30s. Fr
39 Post contains images Josh32121 : No offense taken here, of course.
40 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : First of all, the MD-82 and MD-88 are from the same family, but are not the same airplane. A 1992 build -88 will outperform an '85 build -82. Please
41 tommy767 : Let's be clear: the M90 and 717 are a way different animal than the M82/M83 (and that goes for the mass quantities that AA is stuck with for now.) Th
42 Post contains images seabosdca : The majority are early builds. I haven't seen or heard this reported by any source I would consider remotely credible. Only, yes, fanboys (or, if you
43 CompensateMe : You've asked me the same question once before. The newest A320 are younger than almost the entire 738 fleet; you're persistent that if DL phased out
44 1337Delta764 : I'd expect that DL will likely order the 737 MAX 8 when they decide to replace the MD-88 fleet. However, the 739ER order is primarily to replace older
45 CompensateMe : DL has yet to release a formal fleet plan. Until it does so, the topic is speculative.
46 Post contains images NWAROOSTER : I may be wrong, but some of Delta's MD-88s are upgraded MD-82s.
47 Post contains links seabosdca : Everything is speculative to a certain extent. The airline can always change its plans. But it has publicly announced in a press release that the pla
48 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : Exactly why if 88-100 717s are acquired, the long term upkeep of an orphan A320 fleet becomes more remote. On the narrow-body end, resources will lar
49 seabosdca : The fleet will not be an orphan. For all practical purposes it will be common with a fleet of 58 A319s. 85 aircraft is way more than enough to make a
50 WA707atMSP : I think AVOD in general will be going the way of hard wired telephones at every seat, at least on narrowbodies, by mid decade. More and more passenge
51 1337Delta764 : Considering that all 100 of DL's 739ERs will have AVOD, I don't see that happening at least on DL. At least newbuild deliveries will continue to have
52 TrijetsRMissed : That may be your opinion, but it doesn't carry weight with recent history. DL did not agree with that practicality for the MD-90. Once DL emerged fro
53 AirbusA6 : The MD90 is more different from the MD88 than the A320 is different from the A319, the latter 2 are basically the same aircraft. Otherwise, why would
54 PSU.DTW.SCE : Yes DL realizes this but they've said over and over again that it requires flying aircraft on 30-year replacement cycles to get a suitable return on
55 BDL757 : This is what I wonder about: replacing the Maddogs and 320s. They are both in the 150 seat range and I'm curious as to what a suitable replacement wi
56 CompensateMe : You're comparing commonality between the MD-80/MD-90 to commonality between the 319/320? Seriously? Do you also believe DL will retire its newly acqu
57 Post contains images seabosdca : The A319 and A320 are *identical* except for the fuselage length and the tiny differences it necessitates. Keeping A320s around with your A319 fleet
58 gigneil : They are the same aircraft. Lets be real. NS
59 MSPNWA : I believe the MD-88s will eventually be effectively replaced by the current and projected 717s and MD-90s. It's not going to happen right away, but i
60 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : Guys, think about what you're saying here.... You are arguing that when DL places a large narrow-body order to replace the MD-88 fleet, DL will hold
61 BDL757 : Yeah, it could be an initial solution but that's a big gap between a 110 seat aircraft and a 160 seat aircraft, no?
62 Post contains images NWAROOSTER : Delta will continue flying A320s as long as they are cost effective, make money and have not reached their maximum flight life. This also applies to
63 seabosdca : Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You keep talking about the newer portion of the A320 fleet as if it's in a vacuum. For the hundredth time... it'
64 CompensateMe : LOL, the 319/320 are (basically) the same aircraft. If the original 320 deliveries are WFU, DL will have a 319/320 fleet roughly the same size &
65 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : We'll just agree to disagree... Like I said, I've been on the island before. But this one will be extra sweet.
66 PSU.DTW.SCE : I know I'm not going to change your opinion, and you aren't going to change mind and that fine. I see your points as valid, but there is nothing to in
67 seabosdca : Missed this one... The 717s and MD-90s will help with the MD-88 issue, but there's too much fleet renewal needed for those types to do all the work o
68 TrijetsRMissed : Likewise. All in good debate. Though 20 of 27 were delivered from 1998-99.
69 sankaps : Bingo. The DC9s (all vintages) were cheaper to operate than A320-family as long as fuel price stayed below $60 or some such figure, I don't recall ex
70 AirbusA6 : With such large fleets, and 2 major suppliers, it would be silly to not keep both manufacturers interested, and let them trade Airbus and Boeing again
71 MSPNWA : There will still be the A319s/newer A320s in the property to help fill that gap. The rest would have to be filled by new aircraft though. That's true
72 1337Delta764 : The 737NG and A320 have rather high resale values, which makes them less attractive vs. buying them new. The MD-90 has a much lower resale value, whi
73 Post contains images CompensateMe : What specific missions can the 73G accomplish that the 319 cannot? According to you, the differences between the 319 & 320 are too significant to
74 msp747 : They have high resale values now, but those values should drop significantly once the NEO's and MAX's start rolling off the assembly line, wouldn't y
75 AirbusA6 : That's what I was thinking, there are airlines, especially LCCs, with very ambitious purchasing strategies, who are likely to be rolling over their e
76 FlyAA757 : My personal expectation is that Delta will do exactly what it said in the press release...don't understand why this is causing controversy/confusion!
77 wjcandee : Financial statements include variable components other than fuel, like maintenance cost, as well as capital cost. "More efficient" is rarely more eff
78 Post contains links TrijetsRMissed : There is nothing I've said about the 73G and it's specific mission/route profiles at DL, that hasn't been acknowledged by the company. - Mel Fauscett
79 seabosdca : ...before the NW merger and the A319s that came with it. To prove your point you'll have to show them saying something similar after the merger. DL s
80 CompensateMe : You provided an article written in 2006; DL inherited the 319, which has similar capabilities, shortly afterward. Again, you're arguing that it'd be
81 Post contains links and images TrijetsRMissed : Well, you both have pride but now you're just nitpicking... As they say on ESPN MNF, "C'mon man..." With respect, the timeline argument is a bit igno
82 Post contains links TrijetsRMissed : That's not exactly what I said. There is no cost issue? There are added costs with both sub-fleets. But the circumstances of the A320 and 73G are not
83 seabosdca : Because now that the 73G is on property there's no need to spend money upgrading the 319 to perform those missions. It would need a thrust bump for t
84 Post contains images CompensateMe : Nobody's debating the role the 73G plays for DL; we're debating that the 319 is capable of playing the same role. (seabosdca provided similar thought
85 burnsie28 : Delta has 126 A319/A320's as of 2nd Quarter
86 seabosdca : The discussion above is based on the assumption that the 41 old-batch A320s will leave after the arrival of the 739ER, as Delta indicated in the pres
87 TrijetsRMissed : Interestingly, DL had plans to phaseout the MD-90 as early as 1998-99. They were part of a fleet reduction/standardization plan, which also included
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