Domestic 122 million (15% growth)
Intl............ 41 million ( 8% growth)
Total.........163 million ( 13% growth)
For reference, USA which is currently the largest aviation market is about 700 million passengers. One would expect the growth to decline in the future due to expected slowdown in both the Indian and global economy.
DEL at 36 million is about 5 million more passengers than BOM.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 2, posted (11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 17296 times:
Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 1): Thats some growth over the last fiscal, where it was around 29 million pax.
My understanding is that DEL has capability to handle nearly 60 million passengers and it has enough land to grow to about 100 million passengers.
Another thing to note about Indian aviation is that the top five airports in India(DEL,BOM,MAA,BLR,CCU) account for 62% of the total traffic. It use to be even higher in the past.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 4, posted (11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 17253 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 3): While the economy is slowing down, I expect to continue to see growth in the sector, as liberalization continues and demand grows.
I meant to say growth rate will decline and not growth. The current growth rate is less than the average growth rate of recent past. Law of large numbers is coming into play.
BLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 194 posts, RR: 14 Reply 5, posted (11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 17180 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 3): While the economy is slowing down, I expect to continue to see growth in the sector, as liberalization continues and demand grows.
Rohit, there is a direct correlation between rate of GDP growth and air traffic growth. Normally 1.5x ~ 2x. So do not expect too much in 2012~13.
vin2basketball From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 17068 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 5):
Rohit, there is a direct correlation between rate of GDP growth and air traffic growth. Normally 1.5x ~ 2x. So do not expect too much in 2012~13.
Which even at the Q1 GDP growth rate implies 7.5-10% traffic growth in 2012. The avg multiplier for India in the last year is somewhere in the range of 1.2-1.3 implying traffic growth rate of around 6% if GDP growth settles at 5%.
Quote:
A no-compromise approach adopted by Civil Aviation Minister Ajit Singh and the Rs 30,000-crore bailout package have allegedly led to the hardening of stance by the government in its dealings with the agitating Air India pilots, which is in sharp contrast to the soft manner in which the government dealt with the striking pilots of erstwhile Indian Airlines a year ago.
Sources in the aviation ministry told ET that the IPG was told clearly that the environment has changed and that they can no longer be treated the same way as the ICPA. Also, much of what is transpiring currently at Air India comes from the fact that Ajit Singh does not share the same sympathy with the unions as former minster Vyalar Ravi.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 16979 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 5):
Rohit, there is a direct correlation between rate of GDP growth and air traffic growth. Normally 1.5x ~ 2x. So do not expect too much in 2012~13.
10% growth is nothing to sneeze at...
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 16943 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 9): Taxes make Indian airfares 200-300 per cent higher than China: Jet Airways chief Naresh Goyal said on Monday, asserting that the aviation industry could not grow with such taxation.
Common sense... If only the government possessed some.
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 9): Jet Airways' promoter Naresh Goyal changes stand, open to FDI in aviation.
Now that it's pretty clear that IT won't be able to benefit (nobody in their right mind would invest now), he has no problems with it...
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 12, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 16926 times:
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 6): Which even at the Q1 GDP growth rate implies 7.5-10% traffic growth in 2012. The avg multiplier for India in the last year is somewhere in the range of 1.2-1.3 implying traffic growth rate of around 6% if GDP growth settles at 5%.
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 11): Ehh no, see my post above, but growth isn't likely to be 10%
The average GDP growth rate during the aviation fiscal year April 2011-March 2012 was 7.1%. From the OP, aviation sector had a growth rate of 13% which yields a growth factor of 1.83(13/7.1).
Assuming a GDP growth rate of 5-6% and growth factor of 1.8 for the current aviation fiscal year, aviation growth of 9-11% is likely. Time will tell.
Please read my interview with Dinesh Keskar. Last year Indian air traffic growth was in the upper teens, yet it was a profit-less growth. Massive growth with massive losses are an oxymoron driven by extreme over-capacity. Both 9W and 6E are guilty of contributing to this over-capacity by adding planes at a breakneck pace.
The fact that the Kingfisher fleet has reduced from 64 to 16 aircraft, with hardly a dent in airfares, shows how much more capacity needs to be removed from the system.
In case of 6E, they placed a massive order, and the world has very little demand for A320 classics now that the neo is 4 years away, so they have to take the aircraft, but I do not understand why Jet is expanding its fleet without a corresponding increase in market share.
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 9): Jet Airways' promoter Naresh Goyal changes stand, open to FDI in aviation.
Sorry to say this, but Mr. Goyal is a very big hypocrite in my humble opinion. He has been using his massive political clout and engineering India's civil aviation policy to suit his airline for over 20 years now. He has been blocking FDI since it would badly affect Jet Airways. Now with the writing on the wall he cannot be seen as blocking, plus he realises with the almost demise of IT, 9W valuation has increased dramatically, at least from a business importance view, not a financial view.
Despite all the indirect help Jet and he have received over the years from successive administrations, Jet Airways' performance has plateaued out. Just like Dr. Mallya, the operational control of Jet needs to be removed from the Goyal family and put in to the hands of serious professionals, and not figureheads.
freqflyer From India, joined Apr 2006, 70 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16711 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 13):
The fact that the Kingfisher fleet has reduced from 64 to 16 aircraft, with hardly a dent in airfares,
Reduction in capacity should cause an increase in fares - not dents. And an increase is what we are seeing, whatever the reason.
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 13): In case of 6E, they placed a massive order, and the world has very little demand for A320 classics now that the neo is 4 years away, so they have to take the aircraft,
IIRC, 6E also ordered 30 new OEOs alongwith the NEOs . There is no indication that they wish they hadn't. Since the productions slots for the NEOs are almost full, the OEOs will continue to be in operation around the world. The lower capital cost for used frames will offset the relatively higher fuel costs.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 15, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16657 times:
That would be *excellent* growth for the US or Europe.
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 13): Both 9W and 6E are guilty of contributing to this over-capacity by adding planes at a breakneck pace.
We can debate on the sources of 6E's profit, but as long as they are profitable, why not expand quickly?
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 13): The fact that the Kingfisher fleet has reduced from 64 to 16 aircraft, with hardly a dent in airfares, shows how much more capacity needs to be removed from the system.
What is up with searching Google today? I searched for Kingfisher, Indigo, and others airline terms and it found no news documents (limited search to news). Normally I would provide more links... I've done search for work and also no documents were showing up... (very strange...).
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 12): Assuming a GDP growth rate of 5-6% and growth factor of 1.8 for the current aviation fiscal year, aviation growth of 9-11% is likely. Time will tell.
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1301 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16609 times:
"Kingfisher has never turned a profit since it was founded in 2005 and its market share has shrunk, from the second largest to the smallest among India’s six carriers.
Mr Mallya’s friends say he has performed a miracle keeping the airline aloft, considering its net debt of about $1.5bn, by scaling down its fleet and pruning routes to a handful of profitable links between major cities.
Suhel Seth, managing partner of Counselage, a New Delhi-based marketing consultancy, says Mr Mallya “is too smart to fail”.
He “knows how to work the system and to my mind he was worked it to the advantage not only of himself but even to his customers,” Mr Seth says."
End of excerpt.
I do not place too much faith personally in Suhel Seth's airline business acumen, but it is telling that he can freely make such a claim. And he is a good personal friend of Mallya, judging from how he has hung around with him in the IPL VIP box over the years, so he is hardly unbiased.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 17, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 16574 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 16): Mr Mallya’s friends say he has performed a miracle keeping the airline aloft, considering its net debt of about $1.5bn, by scaling down its fleet and pruning routes to a handful of profitable links between major cities.
Suhel Seth, managing partner of Counselage, a New Delhi-based marketing consultancy, says Mr Mallya “is too smart to fail”.
Are they profitable? I seriously question that. Even if the $1.5 billion of debt is ignored.
But that debt cannot be ignored. Over $100 million per operating aircraft in a high cost structured company. Mr. Mallay is obviously smart, but no one can manage a company from that level of debt per narrowbody aircraft to profitability and:
1. In an extreamely competitive environment.
2. Kingfisher airlines currently has a tarnished brand image (results in lower RASM)
3. Kingfisher is cut off from the travel agencies (results in a lower RASM)
4. A reputation for irregular flight schedules (is IT flying with decent ontime and dispatch performance now?).
5. Lack of international transfer customers (should boost RASM, at least for 9W).
At this point, any IT route in the black is just a route waiting for 6E to step in.
I'm impressed IT is still flying. I do not believe in 18 months they still will be flying. If anyone has an aircraft delivery schedule for 9W and 6E, I could fine tune that prediction further.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 10): Now that it's pretty clear that IT won't be able to benefit
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 18, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 16468 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 16): Suhel Seth, managing partner of Counselage, a New Delhi-based marketing consultancy, says Mr Mallya “is too smart to fail”.
Friends will support friends till the end
Heard that AI might be headed for a temp lockout if the strike continues.
vin2basketball From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 16362 times:
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 16341 times:
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 19): Traffic growth was 5% in May after 6% in April and 2-3% in March.
That's it? I would have expected it to be higher for May... I understand the low March figure because of the massive decrease in ASKs with IT cutting flights.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 21, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 16265 times:
Quote:
Jet Airways recently decided to cut money-losing international routes, including long-haul flights to Johannesburg and some short-haul flights to the Gulf as part of a consolidation plan. Jet Airways today said it would withdraw its services to New York (JFK) from September 10, though it would continue to operate to Newark International Airport.
The premier airline, which posted a loss of over Rs 294 crore($53 million) in the quarter ended March 31, said that as part of its "ongoing network evaluation with clear focus on profitability, (the airline) will be redeploying its assets on its existing route network.
"This has hence necessitated the temporary suspension of the airline's Brussels-New York (JFK) flight effective 10th September 2012." An airline spokesperson said regular daily services would "continue uninterrupted to two major gateways in North America, Newark and Toronto, with its Mumbai-Brussels-Newark and Delhi-Brussels-Toronto routes." Jet would also continue to operate its daily service on the Chennai-Brussels-Chennai route, the spokesperson said.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 22, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 16237 times:
Quote:
Expanding its international operations, low cost carrier - IndiGo today announced the launch of five new daily direct flights connecting Dubai and Bangkok with Chennai, Hyderabad, Kochi and Delhi from August.
The airline will launch three new flights to Dubai from Hyderabad, Chennai and Kochi while one additional daily direct from Delhi. It will also begin a new flight on Delhi-Bangkok sector.
JOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 426 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 16230 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 21): Jet Airways to withdraw JFK flights from September. If they can't make JFK work, why are they planning to add 9 A333?
I totally agree, and I don't understand Jet's marketing strategy here by citing JFK as a loss making route. If they are indeed inducting those 333s and deciding to add more flight in North America, why not just say so?
I don't understand but 9W is by now infamous for its conflicting press releases.
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 26, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15953 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 22): The airline will launch three new flights to Dubai from Hyderabad, Chennai and Kochi while one additional daily direct from Delhi.
Thank you. It there a list of bilateral rights 6E has requested?
Also, of India's weekly rights to Dubai, how many are unused? I would expect 6E to have the potential to open up new routes with zero competition to Dubai (assuming customs and such is set up).
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 19): Traffic growth was 5% in May after 6% in April and 2-3% in March.
No, overall growth in the Indian sector. It is affected by IT's rapid drawdown, but it also mirrors the slow GDP growth India has had so far this year.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 28, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15814 times:
Quote:
Virtually sounding a warning to the striking Air India pilots, Civil Aviation Minister Ajit Singh today said the government is not waiting for the pilots to return to work but making plans to move ahead.
Reminding the pilots and other employees that their survival was linked to Air India, he said that nobody is going to give anymore public money to the airline and "they will not survive for too long" if the company does not become competitive.
"We are not waiting. We are making plans. If you take the pilots trained in V-737 or Airbus 320, (in) three to six months they can be trained to fly these planes.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 29, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15562 times:
IndiGo, SpiceJet's market share up; Air India, Kingfisher lose ground. Could 2013 be the year Indigo ends up with highest market share? Given the current trend, it won't be long before AI's market share is in single digit.
Quote:
While Air India saw the largest fall in market share in the reporting month to 16.2 per cent from 17.6 per cent in April, the second largest no-frills carrier SpiceJet saw its market share rising to 18.5 per cent from 17.7 per cent in April, according to the latest data released by civil aviation regulator DGCA.
The largest low-cost airline IndiGo saw its market share rising to 24.9 per cent in May from 23.8 per cent in April, while the Jet Group saw its share more or less stagnating at 27.9 per cent, it said.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 33, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15336 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 30): A significant amount of the marketshare drop can be attributed to the strike...
Was is more striking is the unaccounted part of the market is 5.3%. The only missing airline's market share is IT...
Amazes me seeing IT going from #1 (briefly) to #6. At this point, once the others gain a few more aircraft, it won't matter if IT exits the market.
As far as AI, I expected a larger drop due to the strike. So for myself, the minor market share drop for AI is actually encouraging for their chances.
sturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15016 times:
Quoting 777way (Reply 31): any idea where the six 737F went?
What happened to all the old pax A310s that were converted to freighters? Didn't Deccan 360 take one or two? Any idea where these aicraft are now? My first commercial flight was in one of these, so I was a bit curious..
Quoting mk777 (Reply 35):
When does LH start service to DEL with the 748?
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 37, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 14939 times:
Quote:
The situation at Air India, which has witnessed 42 days of pilots strike, might snowball in the coming days as nearly 30 executive pilots reported sick on Tuesday citing excessive work pressure. This could result in more flight cancellations making it difficult for the national carrier to stick even to the contingency plan.
Quote:
A report submitted by a government—appointed committee has concluded that 14 international flights, including long-haul ones, are accounting for 80 per cent of the financial losses in flight operation of national carrier Air India. These include flights such as the Amritsar-Delhi-Toronto flight.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 40, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14835 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 39): 14 international flights abroad cause 80% of AI loss. If true, this explains why the management is being tough with the striking pilots.
While I think that coming to this conclusion probably required some creatinve accounting, it certainly wouldn't surprise me. Those ULH flights to the US have poor yields and sky-high operation costs, and the government is refusing to let AI drop any of them for prestige reasons. Most of them don't even pay for the fuel used to operate... In comparison, the domestic and regional international operations are in far better shape...
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
Quote:
Cash-strapped Air India has suffered a loss of around Rs 500 crore due to the 45-day-old pilots' strike, forcing the airline management to extend its curtailed international flight plan till July 31.
Air India has lost around Rs 500 crore in terms of revenue in the ongoing strike, as the airline has been incurring losses to the tune of about Rs 10 crore per day, sources told PTI today, a day after Air India CMD Rohit Nandan said the national carrier was also "making some substantial savings".
"It was not possible to calculate the savings now, as we have to fulfil our commitments to our vendors on quarterly or half-yearly basis. At least we are making savings on some of the flights like Delhi-Toronto, on which we were losing Rs 300 crore annually," he had said.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 42, posted (11 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 14597 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 41): At least we are making savings on some of the flights like Delhi-Toronto, on which we were losing Rs 300 crore annually," he had said.
Obviously a rationalization must occur. DEL-YYZ is losing ~65 million dollars per year? The purchase price of the airframe quickly drops into the noise.
From your link:"Domestic operations of Air India are also being run normally and there have been no disruptions due to the present agitation, he said."
That tells me that, for the last six weeks, it is easy to believe the majority of the losses were international for AI.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 40): Those ULH flights to the US have poor yields and sky-high operation costs, and the government is refusing to let AI drop any of them for prestige reasons.
I think the above shows the ULH to Canada are possibly worse. Either way, they must be dropped as the GOI cannot afford to subsidize AI 10 crore per day due to the various bond rating warnings for India's debt.
I hope AI resolves the strike soon as they will not survive this for long. The cash drain is greater than the GOI can afford to make up at this time on top of their 'regular losses.' AI must also resolve their IT issues so that they can enter an alliance ASAP with that nice revenue boost. (IIRC 8% was predicted)
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (11 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 14582 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 42): Obviously a rationalization must occur. DEL-YYZ is losing ~65 million dollars per year? The purchase price of the airframe quickly drops into the noise.
Yeah, $60 million a year is ridiculously high. These ULH routes must be rationalized. And it needs to happen soon - the current situation w/r/t ULH routes is unsustainable.
Without the ULH routes, AI would be in far, far better shape.
Unfortunately, the government has come up with brilliant plans for route "rationalization" like routing through LJU so the flight can be subsidized by the Slovenian government and so that the flight can be fed by Adria
I kid you not - the Indian government has instructed AI to consider this instead of axing routes.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 42): various bond rating warnings for India's debt.
The Indian media has criticized this like crazy. Spain, which just recieved a massive bailout, has an investment grade rating higher than India. Personally, I'm hoping for a downgrade - it'll be a nice slap in the face of the politicians who have landed us in this mess. Maybe it'll wake them enough to implement at least some of the market reforms which are desperately needed.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 42): AI must also resolve their IT issues so that they can enter an alliance ASAP with that nice revenue boost. (IIRC 8% was predicted)
AI's IT issues have been resolved for almost a year now. I agree that joining an alliance ASAP would be ideal, but there are a variety of other issues which need to be sorted out first. The most ideal solution to the alliance issues AI is facing would be for 9W to announce that it is joining SkyTeam. Then AI can join *A almost immediately. However, that's rather unlikely to happen with any type of haste.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 44, posted (11 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 14552 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 43): I kid you not - the Indian government has instructed AI to consider this instead of axing routes.
Poor AI, the logic escapes me... AI needs to be run like a business. Rationalize hubbing at DEL/BOM to maximize the RASM and cut the routes that will not be cash flow positive.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 43): Personally, I'm hoping for a downgrade - it'll be a nice slap in the face of the politicians who have landed us in this mess.
It would be a slap, but you do not want that. Below investment grade is a big deal. The constriction on credit happens far quicker than a rating downgrade that stays above or below BBB-. That is the 'step function' as a large fraction of money may not invest below that rating. (Well, they can keep 2% in below investment grade bonds, IIRC, but that is it.)
It is best to impliment the changes to avoid the bond rating cut below investment grade. Once cut, it takes a minimum of a year to climb back up. I've never seen it that quick, but it is theoretically possible.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 43): The most ideal solution to the alliance issues AI is facing would be for 9W to announce that it is joining SkyTeam. Then AI can join *A almost immediately.
Yet 9W seems to be further along with *A. I'm not sure why 9W isn't accelerating plans as the added revenue that an alliance should bring is just enough to put them into the black.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 43): AI's IT issues have been resolved for almost a year now.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 45, posted (11 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 14558 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 44): Yet 9W seems to be further along with *A. I'm not sure why 9W isn't accelerating plans as the added revenue that an alliance should bring is just enough to put them into the black.
At the beginning, 9W declared that it was like EK and that it would be highly successful alone.
After AI and IT were happily in bed with *A and SA)">OW respectively, 9W decided that it also wanted to join an alliance. It is choosing between *A and SkyTeam, because SA)">OW was "taken" by IT at the time...
I think that once IT goes under (and it'll have to happen soon enough), maybe SA)">OW might be smart and grab 9W, or even AI. It's far better than being shut out of the Indian market.
If 9W chooses *A, AI will not be permitted to join *A (1 airline per alliance policy). That is pretty much the only thing which will move AI towards another alliance at this point - AI is thoroughly aligned with *A right now, with SQ, LH, SA, TK, and Adria all being major partners...
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 44): That time frame does not jive with *A statements.
I am confident in my source. AI's IT has been ready since last July.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 44): Poor AI, the logic escapes me... AI needs to be run like a business. Rationalize hubbing at DEL/BOM to maximize the RASM and cut the routes that will not be cash flow positive.
AI has done this to an extent, with the DEL hub. In fact, it's one of the greatest things to happen to AI in recent history - choosing a single hub and actually trying to utilize it properly. And with the new Terminal 3 infrastructure, AI actually runs a pretty decent operation.
However, money losing routes need to be cut. YYZ, ORD are the 2 which stand out as being the most unprofitable right now.
And no, unless the Slovenian government is paying for the entire operating costs, it's unlikely that LJU is going to make AI more profitable. Most people have never heard of Slovenia, forget wanting to go there.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 44):
It would be a slap, but you do not want that. Below investment grade is a big deal. The constriction on credit happens far quicker than a rating downgrade that stays above or below BBB-. That is the 'step function' as a large fraction of money may not invest below that rating. (Well, they can keep 2% in below investment grade bonds, IIRC, but that is it.)
It is best to impliment the changes to avoid the bond rating cut below investment grade. Once cut, it takes a minimum of a year to climb back up. I've never seen it that quick, but it is theoretically possible.
I don't think UPA-II is capable of reform. It doesn't seem to be in their vocabulary unfortunately.
If a bond downgrade is what it takes to get the message that reform is necessary to our political leaders, so be it. We elected these idiots, we get to deal with the mess
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 46, posted (11 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 14535 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 45): I think that once IT goes under (and it'll have to happen soon enough), maybe SA)">OW might be smart and grab 9W, or even AI. It's far better than being shut out of the Indian market.
I agree 9W could choose their alliance. None want to be left out of India. However, my point is that 9W will see a rapid increase in revenue after joining an alliance. Any alliance (with some being better options than others). I wonder why they are not selection an alliance to join?
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 45): AI is thoroughly aligned with *A right now, with SQ, LH, SA, TK, and Adria all being major partners...
Agreed. I wonder if that is why 9W wants into *A, to disrupt AI.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 45): I am confident in my source. AI's IT has been ready since last July.
Interesting. I wonder how much this has to do with 9W and *A then?
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 45): AI has done this to an extent, with the DEL hub.
I'm an engineer. We always find room for improvement. I think AI could boost their long haul RASM another 5% by further optimization at DEL.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 45): However, money losing routes need to be cut. YYZ, ORD are the 2 which stand out as being the most unprofitable right now.
Then cut them. One question, if YYZ were to be cut, would it help ORD? Just a question that should be asked.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 45): And no, unless the Slovenian government is paying for the entire operating costs, it's unlikely that LJU is going to make AI more profitable. Most people have never heard of Slovenia, forget wanting to go there.
I know people buying property in Slovenia. It isn't to do business... I just do not see the business case.
YTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1444 posts, RR: 23 Reply 47, posted (11 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 14541 times:
Interesting that ULH to North America is losing money. Any reasons why?
One would think, that these would be solid money-makers for any airline given the amount of traffic. Really, if ULH fails, then the Gulf 3 will own traffic between NA and India.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 48, posted (11 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 14533 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 46): Interesting. I wonder how much this has to do with 9W and *A then?
Everything. AI wanted exclusivity in *A. *A wanted both AI and 9W. MoCA declared the 1 airline per alliance rule. AI's membership was suspended. Very simple chain of events.
Mind you, this is completely from the AI perspective. If you look at it from *A's perspective, it looks different of course. But it doesn't change the fact that AI's IT is ready.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 46): Then cut them. One question, if YYZ were to be cut, would it help ORD? Just a question that should be asked.
If AI partnered with AC for YYZ flight feed (and this was going to happen after joining *A), I think the YYZ flight would do fine. Ditto with UA and the ORD flight.
Currently, AI has a serious feed problem. Therefore, they are stuck depending on O&D - and in order to fill the aircraft, the yields are crap.
I agree that if a route is losing $60 million a year, and AI can't come up with a solution, it needs to be cut. Sadly, that's easier said than done.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 46): I agree 9W could choose their alliance. None want to be left out of India. However, my point is that 9W will see a rapid increase in revenue after joining an alliance. Any alliance (with some being better options than others). I wonder why they are not selection an alliance to join?
I wonder the same. Often.
But 9W has shown a lot of irrationality in its management, especially of late. It's difficult to figure out why they do anything, assuming they have a reason at all.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 49, posted (11 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 14516 times:
Quoting YTZ (Reply 47): Really, if ULH fails, then the Gulf 3 will own traffic between NA and India.
I would disagree. The hubs in Europe will continue to funnel a large amount of traffic to India. Right now the issue is the lack of Indian carriers in an alliance post Kingfisher's down-sizing.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 48): Everything. AI wanted exclusivity in *A. *A wanted both AI and 9W. MoCA declared the 1 airline per alliance rule. AI's membership was suspended. Very simple chain of events.
I would just add more than a few steps:
AI wanted into *A (and expected exclusivity for India)
Two years go by...
*A wanted both AI and 9W (it happend far along in the process)
MoCA declared the 1 airline per alliance rule.
AI's application was suspended.
9W is left with?
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 48): If AI partnered with AC for YYZ flight feed (and this was going to happen after joining *A), I think the YYZ flight would do fine. Ditto with UA and the ORD flight.
The *A partners were equally frustrated. But at some point AI must demonstrate they will play by *A rules. Unfortunately for AI, *A demand to India is basically met through FRA hubbing from North America (during the downturn).
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 48): But 9W has shown a lot of irrationality in its management, especially of late. It's difficult to figure out why they do anything, assuming they have a reason at all.
I have come around to that opinion. Did they have a management change since 2007? Or did growth mask the irrationality? Or couse it?
9W should choose an alliance soon. Really soon (as in within 90 days). That, due to political reasons, pretty much leaves Skyteam...
AI wanted into *A (and expected exclusivity for India)
Two years go by...
*A wanted both AI and 9W (it happend far along in the process)
MoCA declared the 1 airline per alliance rule.
AI's application was suspended.
Agree.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 49):
I have come around to that opinion. Did they have a management change since 2007? Or did growth mask the irrationality? Or couse it?
I'm not really sure... It's been getting worse and worse as time goes on - it's not like a sudden change.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 49): 9W should choose an alliance soon. Really soon (as in within 90 days). That, due to political reasons, pretty much leaves Skyteam...
I agree completely that 9W should choose an alliance ASAP. Waiting for IT to go down so that they can join OW is the only reasonable reason I can think of delaying..
However, political reasons don't really stop them from choosing any alliance. If they join *A, AI will just go to SkyTeam. If they join ST, AI can finally join *A. If they join OW, AI will join *A.
There is nothing stopping them from joining *A at this point - maybe in the past, but after the strike, MoCA has lost a lot of patience with AI.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14 Reply 51, posted (11 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 14471 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 46): I agree 9W could choose their alliance. None want to be left out of India. However, my point is that 9W will see a rapid increase in revenue after joining an alliance. Any alliance (with some being better options than others). I wonder why they are not selection an alliance to join?
I think, reading between the lines, they have chosen which alliance they would prefer to join - Star. ( yes, I admit to having a *A bias, but I still think more of 9W's actions point towards *A than Skyteam - if you compare their portfolio of mileage and/or codeshare partners they have more relationships with *A members by quite a margin than they do with Skyteam members) . But I also think that they are not confident that the Indian Government will let them go with their preferred choice, so they are making sure that they have a plan 'B' in place.
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
Quote:
While Air India continues to wait for approval to take delivery of its 787, it has quietly been preparing for its operation to Sydney and Melbourne. Tentative schedules for Sydney and Melbourne have been released, however Delhi schedules have not been released yet. The inaugural flight will take place on August 31st or September 1st from Delhi, depending on whether the flight departs before or after midnight.
tayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 14512 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 21): Jet Airways to withdraw JFK flights from September. If they can't make JFK work, why are they planning to add 9 A333?
This has to be viewed alongwith the withdrawl of the JNB flight, both of these decisions have been not too long after the codeshare with EK was inked.
I don't know how does the code share work with ref to the bilaterals, effectively 9W is feeding DXB/EK from the quota of Indian carriers without EK/DXB/UAE attracting adverse attention from their rivals, as i understand EK can book pax on 9W flts that carry a EK code. It will be interesting to observe how many of these pax flying on 9W are headed to JNB or JFK.
The A333 will definately help reduce the CASM on the DXB-India sector when pitched head on with the likes of 6E and SG.
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 9): Jet Airways' promoter Naresh Goyal changes stand, open to FDI in aviation.
Now if you take the above decisions of jet alongwith this statement, i am compeled to read between the lines. Being a fan of John Lecarre, you can accuse me of conspiracy theories. And since i am at it, i believe the decision to shut down AI or to hive it off to a pvt player is a no brainer to anybody with a basic understanding of biz however against all logical thinking the GOI seems to keep this EYESORE still alive.
Has it occured to anybody, with the near demise of KFA, There are only 2 airlines that fly long-haul out of India, with 5yr rule in place and the other Intl airlines out of India operating only NBs, the 2 airlines to rule the roost for long are 9W and AI. We know what has been happening to AIs loyalty. Its worth pondering.
All the same i've to take my hat off to NG for bringing change in Indian aviation............tell you what i am buying some Jet shares tomorrow, put my money where my mouth is.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 54, posted (11 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 14434 times:
Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 53): I don't know how does the code share work with ref to the bilaterals, effectively 9W is feeding DXB/EK from the quota of Indian carriers
Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 53): Has it occured to anybody, with the near demise of KFA, There are only 2 airlines that fly long-haul out of India
EK and AI?
The NEO will allow 6E to expand far enough out. I expect them to eventually buy widebodies, but I hope not for a while (for their own sake).
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 50): I agree completely that 9W should choose an alliance ASAP. Waiting for IT to go down so that they can join OW is the only reasonable reason I can think of delaying..
Interesting. I wouldn't think OW was in 9W's interest with or without IT. Or am I missing some major code share partners?
I agree any alliance would help 9W. I do not understand the delay. Time is money and money is something 9W needs so why waste time?
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 51): But I also think that they are not confident that the Indian Government will let them go with their preferred choice, so they are making sure that they have a plan 'B' in place.
That I agree with. Perhaps they are trying to get unofficial approval for *A before making a move?
Regionally, the greatest benefit will be *A. (LH, TK, and probably one day QR.)
Lightsaber
ps, late question (reason for edit), are the SYD and MEL flights likely to be timed for good connections to Europe? Is AI entering the Kangaroo route?
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 55, posted (11 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 14455 times:
Can AI make money flying B788 to JFK from DEL? Some back of the envelope calculations:
DEL-JFK is around 6,500 nm, and at still air AI 256 seat B788 should burn about 25,000 gallons of fuel. For a round trip, DEL-JFK-DEL, the fuel consumption is about 50,000 gallons at a cost of $150,000. Assuming fuel at 40% of total cost, a round trip flight should cost around $375,000.
Assuming 70% load factor, each seat will cost AI about $2,100. IMO, it will be difficult for AI to have such a high yield. It will have to achieve very high load factors to make these non-stop flights to NA profitable. I have ignored cargo revenue in the above analysis.
tayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 56, posted (11 months 1 week ago) and read 14306 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 54): The NEO will allow 6E to expand far enough out. I expect them to eventually buy widebodies, but I hope not for a while (for their own sake).
6E is already nibbling into EK's revenue where 9W has been trying to shore up. 9W has pulled out of HYD/MAA - DXB, 6E has quickly added services on this route.
HYD is very important for EK's US network especially JFK (9W will discontinue this service too), the high yield HYD-DXB sector literally subsidizes the connecting long-haul by adding to the O-D breakeven, if 6E chips into this it will create the same issues that were present with 9W operating this route. Its the same for MAA.
EK's strategy is to be the national carrier of the Indian sub-continent. With a migrant population exceeding 25m across the western hemisphere and without a credible national carrier Pak, Bangladesh, Srilanka, Nepal and India are excellent feeds for its long-haul flts. With the advent of Deccan in 2003 in India, The mandarins at EK had to start their own LCC - FlyDubai - much against their own declared wishes, to ring fence their feed. The biggest market in the sub-continent also is the largest threat for EK, here 9W was a perfect partner inside the rival camp.
The carnal obsession with everything large, whereby they have ended up with these extremely large behmoth B773s & A380s which need a steady increase in bilaterals to keep up with the growing break-even numbers. One solution to bypass the bilaterals was the code share with a Indian airline (9W).
6E has on its board an ex-EK Financial controller, he was the man who sourced the finance for the First of the many very very large orders. I guess he knows EK's costs better then many within.
Love these David and Goliath stories.
The A320Neos will be game changer for 6E in the GRIC countries, remember you came across this term here on AL.net (moderators pls record) it stands for GULF, RUSSIA, INDIA and CHINA . The 6E Neos will cover (2020) 75% of the worlds Economy, Energy, Minerals and Population. This region will be more than twice the size of EU-USA aviation market and with India/DEL as the HUB it makes a perfect hub and spoke like the merc logo
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
JOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 426 posts, RR: 1 Reply 57, posted (11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 14193 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 54): I agree any alliance would help 9W. I do not understand the delay. Time is money and money is something 9W needs so why waste time?
I believe 9W is waiting for AI to back off from Star or something, their first choice seems to be Star no matter what, the proof being their recent requests to fly to Germany.
The problem is work at the Govt desks go slower than floppy drives, that's why the delay I think.
Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 56): EK's strategy is to be the national carrier of the Indian sub-continent.
It already is isn't it. Although, QR has taken the major share in Nepal, KTM-DOH 3x/4x daily at the moment, and only a sole Flydubai flies to DXB not EK.
In fact at the moment the only hope of any change in this rests with 9W's future plans (When? ), and IndiGo's swift and steady expansion.
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
BLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 194 posts, RR: 14 Reply 58, posted (11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 14212 times:
Quoting YTZ (Reply 47):
Interesting that ULH to North America is losing money. Any reasons why?
The fuel burn is so expensive on these ULH flights that the only way to make money is have a massive business class which goes reasonably full with fare paying passengers.
AI 77Ls have a First Class filled with free loading upgraders and IPG pilots. The business class is more or less empty since the airline is unreliable in timings. The economy class wants JFK at Rs. 30,000. Add to this costs of additional crew due to the long flight.
And then to top it off, the planes sit at JFK for the whole darn day. No income, only expenses.
The EGoM that approved the purchase of these aircraft were heavily indoctrinated in Prafulacraponomics.
comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4673 posts, RR: 17 Reply 59, posted (11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 14194 times:
I have taken the gutsy move of booking a flight this weekend on AI from BLR to MAA and returning on IT just to save a measly $20! Will let you know how it went if it went
I actually like Air India, except for the ground service. New planes, cheerful interiors and just enough service on board. Also nostalgic memories of flying in A-II's Connies and IAC DC3s...though their Mangalore crash was unforgivable.
goacom From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 72 posts, RR: 0 Reply 62, posted (11 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 13860 times:
Quoting comorin (Reply 61): actually like Air India, except for the ground service.
Yeah, I would amend their tag line with the addition ... Air India .. hell on the ground. BTW, is it legal to take off with a passenger not having a seat? On a recent flight from Mumbai to London, my brother, who was stupid/brave enough to fly on AI (he chose it because it was the cheapest - thank you tax payers of India) witnessed a passenger whose seat was double booked. He ended up having to sit on a jump seat for the flight!
Air India has become the laughing stock of airline forums everywhere, and your brother's tale takes the cake. Somebody, anybody, please put this buddhu airline out of its misery!
JOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 426 posts, RR: 1 Reply 65, posted (11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 13767 times:
Quoting goacom (Reply 62): He ended up having to sit on a jump seat for the flight!
Please tell me your brother sued AI.... because though I may not know the laws appropriately, but for something like this you can sue for your trip cost + mental and physical torture of having to sit in a jump seat + etc And I assure you if the right channels are used, such a case will always go in the victim's favour.... I know from past experience.
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 66, posted (11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13756 times:
Quoting goacom (Reply 62): On a recent flight from Mumbai to London, my brother, who was stupid/brave enough to fly on AI (he chose it because it was the cheapest - thank you tax payers of India) witnessed a passenger whose seat was double booked. He ended up having to sit on a jump seat for the flight!
That "passenger" was likely a nonrev - that's the only explanation I can think of...
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4149 posts, RR: 1 Reply 68, posted (11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13617 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 17):
I'm impressed IT is still flying. I do not believe in 18 months they still will be flying. If anyone has an aircraft delivery schedule for 9W and 6E, I could fine tune that prediction further
How amny predicted they'll still flying today?
BTW Speaking of orders and deliveries, the IT order is still in the order book of Airbus. Aren't they going to cancel this order? Or are they selling the delivery slots to other airlines?
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 69, posted (11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 13425 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 60):
Welcome To Air India, Your Palace In The Sky
Thank you. I enjoyed the read.
Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 56): 6E is already nibbling into EK's revenue where 9W has been trying to shore up.
6E has an interesting strategy. 9W is trying to get back into the black any way they can. If codesharing with EK/QR/EY helps, they will do it.
Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 56): EK's strategy is to be the national carrier of the Indian sub-continent.
I think they do a little more than that. But that was a seed to help set up their network. Now they also have the routes to SE Asia and Australia, China, and now they seem to be expanding (slowly) in Russia too.
Quoting LJ (Reply 68): How amny predicted they'll still flying today?
IT is a zombie though. I see no way they can resolve all of their issues.
tayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 71, posted (11 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13171 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 69): I think they do a little more than that. But that was a seed to help set up their network. Now they also have the routes to SE Asia and Australia, China, and now they seem to be expanding (slowly) in Russia too.
Obviously the network has to be spread out beyond the Indian sub-continent to cater to these folks from S.Asia, especially the India Biz & 'F' pax. The S.E.Asia flts are mainly full with the arab peninsula pax, here again the likes of 9W and now 6E are competing for the same set of pax.Well when you see some of 'em Indians backtrack to DXB for their ANZ flts it makes you wonder what would have happened if the bilaterals kept pace with the capacity and all the A380s were allowed to fly into India unencumbered (by the way EK has stopped taking deliveries of its A380s apparently 3 are parked in Hamburg). The seed would have turned into the proverbial ''BEANSTOCK'', which was the original plan, remember the poorly managed takeover of AirLanka.
DXB is rapidly loosing its allure for the russians, who are flocking into southern europe elbowing out the anecdotal English and German holdiay makers during the summer months, in the winter its India, Maldives, Thailand and Indonesia, Was handling Transaero in Cyprus last summer so know it first hand.
In my prv post i was hinting at EK being the Longhaul ( a fleet of B77LRs and A380 only is a sure giveaway) airline for Indians due to a colluding 9W & bumbling AI, the kangroo route has done EKs finances more damage than it has caused to the western and oriental airlines.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 72, posted (11 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13181 times:
Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 71): The S.E.Asia flts are mainly full with the arab peninsula pax, here again the likes of 9W and now 6E are competing for the same set of pax.Well when you see some of 'em Indians backtrack to DXB for their ANZ flts it makes you wonder what would have happened if the bilaterals kept pace with the capacity and all the A380s were allowed to fly into India unencumbered.
India missed a HUGE opportunity to provide connections. Europe to Australia is shorter via DEL and DEL is better located (closer to Australia, the long leg). India also has cities with high O&D demand. But as you note, it would be for India to expand the bilaterals and also to provide airport infrastructure and policies to facilitate a world class hubbing experience.
Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 71): (by the way EK has stopped taking deliveries of its A380s apparently 3 are parked in Hamburg).
The wing crack issue has been well discussed. EK will not accept delivery (make the final payment) until those frames are repaired. They'll had to cut back on LAX (my home airport) and CPT due to a lack of 777s due to the quantity of A380s being repaired. So do not take this is a lack of expansion opportunity for EK. It is but a hiccup.
EK might as well fix the wing cracks to ensure high A380 availability. It also helps that the A380 deliveries will now be with the opening of Concourse 3 at DXB (there are complaints with the concourses being overcrowded).
The rest of you discussion was too fare off thread to comment on. Interesting though.
Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 71): all the A380s were allowed to fly into India unencumbered
There is also a passenger cap for Duba/India's bilateral. So EK would have had to drop other flights. Dubai would love to expand the bilateral. Heck, outside of aviation India wants to expand the bilateral! But they are at a stalemate due to the desire to protect AI versus other industries in India (namely chemical and pharma, who are dependent on Dubai as a mid-east trading hub).
tayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 73, posted (11 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 13125 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 72): The wing crack issue has been well discussed. EK will not accept delivery (make the final payment) until those frames are repaired. They'll had to cut back on LAX (my home airport) and CPT due to a lack of 777s due to the quantity of A380s being repaired. So do not take this is a lack of expansion opportunity for EK. It is but a hiccup.
Its more than just the issue of CRACKS, which were factored as the largest customer for a yet unproven product the risks were always there, however when you take this refusal with the massive tom toming of the need for capacity in the recent past, you can only attribute the contradicting action to a need to save money with grounding the fleet ( The naive bureaucrats running AI are honest in admitting this during the present strike, where AI's losses are less during the strike compared to full ops). Being an aviation personnel you know the additional (refused) aircrafts would have filled in for the ones in maintenance and rotated on. If the flts were going genuinely chock a block the losses could have been recovered from the outstanding dues to Airbus. Western industrial courts have a history of innumerrable cases where customers have been able to claim against such loss of biz, EK would have never missed this opportunity. The choice of refusing to accept deliveries plays perfectly with EKs present predicament of excess capacity and extremely low yields. A sparsely populated 3 concourses would have been a bad press after the pictures of all those abandoned cars in the airport car park.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 72): India missed a HUGE opportunity to provide connections. Europe to Australia is shorter via DEL and DEL is better located (closer to Australia, the long leg). India also has cities with high O&D demand. But as you note, it would be for India to expand the bilaterals and also to provide airport infrastructure and policies to facilitate a world class hubbing experience.
Though i lament, I would still say ''Always for the better'', if you look back at the last 10yrs of runaway madness in the whole world where OIL has gone from a measely $30/brl - $120 when the total global consumption of OIL has not increased by more than 5%, the financial engineering which allowed easy money, that inturn inflated every piece of commodity(metal Al) and asset (Homes, Aircrafts), you can clearly see that many countries and companies witnessed growth at a very high cost. EU is reeling under it, world is littered with the carcasses of Banks and companies incl airlines and not to mention our very own shinning example DXB ( remember the promise to start full scale pax ops from JXB world Intl in 2008) and its painfull crash of 2008.
In this context i feel as the Indian govt and corporates were concentrating on the low hanging fruits, now is an opportune time to create the perfect policy and growth plan ( however AI has to exit for this, you can see the subterfuge argument gets more relevant) for Aviation. IMO, the airports of AMD and MAA will exceed DEL in the not so distant future (10yrs) because of their home to an extremely entreprenurial and industrial state, DEL numbers are purely because of AI (Nacil) and the old style of centralised governance in India.
The number of stakeholders (Airports, States/Province and Airlines) affected by the generous bilaterals of the past have increased many fold, going fwd Indian aviation policy will be more EAST (ANZ, Far-East and S.E.Asia) focused, i doubt if EK or for that matter the ME airlines will get anything substantial without giving India a prefrential treatment.
The brief mention about Russian traffic was contextual, 6E will be targetting this Asia bound winter traffic.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 74, posted (11 months 3 days ago) and read 12913 times:
Whats this about KF shutting down temporarily post 1st July until Aviation FDI is permitted.Aircraft not flying will only add to the losses.......wake up vjm.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 75, posted (11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12892 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 74): Whats this about KF shutting down temporarily post 1st July until Aviation FDI is permitted.Aircraft not flying will only add to the losses.......wake up vjm.
I've only heard it on A-India so far. Haven't seen it anywhere else.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
goacom From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 72 posts, RR: 0 Reply 76, posted (11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12756 times:
Quoting comorin (Reply 67): Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 66):
That "passenger" was likely a nonrev - that's the only explanation I can think of...
I think you are right - a friend of mine once had to sit in the jumpseat and he was flying non-rev.
According to my brother, he was a regular passenger, but AI had issued two passengers to the same seat. They both had boarding passes, but with the same seat number! With AI, anything crazy is possible, I guess.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 77, posted (11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12819 times:
Quoting goacom (Reply 76): According to my brother, he was a regular passenger, but AI had issued two passengers to the same seat. They both had boarding passes, but with the same seat number! With AI, anything crazy is possible, I guess.
How do you know he was a regular passenger? Nonrevs get boarding passes too.
I find it very difficult to believe that AI would trash regulations like this - the fines are astronomical.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
JOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 426 posts, RR: 1 Reply 78, posted (11 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12714 times:
Quoting goacom (Reply 76): but AI had issued two passengers to the same seat. They both had boarding passes, but with the same seat number
There is custom of offering one of them a seat in upper classes if they are available, and I'm sure that AI flight had free seats elsewhere.... all airlines do that....
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 79, posted (11 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12616 times:
Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 78): There is custom of offering one of them a seat in upper classes if they are available, and I'm sure that AI flight had free seats elsewhere.... all airlines do that....
To a revenue passenger, SOP would be to send the passenger to the ops agent (gate agent), who would rebook the passenger in any available seat, regardless of class of service. If there is no free seats, the passenger would be bumped
For a non-rev, the process is the same - however, jumpseats count as available seats for some non-revs.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 80, posted (11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12532 times:
Overbooking to cater to last minute cancellation is an accepted Airline process......in case of overbook pax numbers,some are offered goodies of an upgrade or hotel stay and a later flight or a refund amount.
comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4673 posts, RR: 17 Reply 81, posted (11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12481 times:
Hello all. I survived my trip BLR-MAA-BLR on AI and IT:
Both trips went very well, and the staff did an excellent job with a smile, even though they must be so anxious abut their future. The planes were clean and the fights were on time. So kudos to the flight and ground staff!
MAA airport is very close to opening its bright and beautiful new domestic terminal, and the old cowshed will come to dust. Landing was restricted until 4.30 pm at MAA due to runway construction. I did manage to sneak in a sundowner G&T at the bar upstairs, followed by a back rub at the O2 spa below.
En route to MAA, I was looking at AI's route map and felt that this was an airline with an impressive network and it would be a shame if it had to close down. Years of flying experience, organization and procedures in place: a valuable asset. Hmm... a perfect candidate for a Bain Capital!
Nice feature at both airports are the food stalls outside where you can grab a bite before you hit the cab stands. I had a Chicken Kaati Roll at BIAL, just in case anyone is wondering.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 82, posted (11 months 17 hours ago) and read 12169 times:
Hey guys, posting after a long time as I recently changed jobs and realised that I have very little spare time on my hands. Came across this story on CNN.com which shows life at tarmac Aviation at tarbes in France. Pay attention to the first two pictures in the slideshow. An AI A310 (no reg) and a IC A320 (VT-EVR) being (sadly) chopped up after years of hard work http://bit.ly/MV4TnT
ojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2786 posts, RR: 23 Reply 84, posted (10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 11844 times:
Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 53): This has to be viewed alongwith the withdrawl of the JNB flight, both of these decisions have been not too long after the codeshare with EK was inked.
What code share agreement?
Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 53): as i understand EK can book pax on 9W flts that carry a EK code
It's just that one unilateral code share wherein EK puts its code on one of 9Ws BOM - DXB and DEL - DXB flights.
A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
tayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 87, posted (10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11668 times:
Quoting ojas (Reply 84): It's just that one unilateral code share wherein EK puts its code on one of 9Ws BOM - DXB and DEL - DXB flights.
Thank god for that, i never expected them to get away with any more from DEL/BOM. These 2 cities feed the most 'J' class pax, codeshare with a FSC always adds to the feed.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
anshuk From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2009, 480 posts, RR: 0 Reply 96, posted (10 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10092 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 12):
USER
[quote=Cricket,reply=94]
Whoa! Kingfisher's bankers are talking of selling Vijay Mallya's Goa mansion. Hitting him where it hurts! And also selling Kingfisher House - something the airline admits!
They say that, but until unless he personally guaranteed a certain part of Kingfisher's loans, they can try to recover from his Goa mansion but will not succeed. On the other hand, I understand Kingfisher House is actually a Kingfisher Airlines asset so they should be able to sell that and recover some money.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 99, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9541 times:
Dr Vijay Mallya - Chairman, Kingfisher Airlines
Dr. Vijay Mallya holds a PhD in Business Administration, is a well known industrialist and a Member of Parliament (Council of States). He took over the reins of UB Group at the young age of 28 and has been instrumental in growing it into a multinational business conglomerate. Dr. Vijay Mallya is the Chairman of the UB Group and several other public companies in India and abroad and has won wide recognition from distinguished institutions.
WestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 8 Reply 101, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9534 times:
I have a foggy memory from some years back - of some reporter noting that Mr. Mallya's web-bio indicated that he had received a honorary Ph. D. from "Southern California University", and the reporter indicated there is no such accredited university and the nearest possibility with a similar name (USC) did not award the degree. Was it finally clarified where Mr. Mallya got his Ph. D. from?
[EDIT to add: Wikipedia says it was from California Southern University - a correspondence school, but accredited].
[Edited 2012-07-09 21:07:21]
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 105, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9152 times:
Zaidi was responsible for the Fake Pilot scam either directly or indirectly by turning a blind eye; Bharat Bhushan had his hands tied many times, but from the few times I met him, he seemed to be an honest officer. Ajit Singh is obviously beholden by Mallya's magic and is dancing to Mallya's beat, why would he otherwise directly disobey the Prime Minister in such a decision. Then again, our PM is such that well, he won't do anything. From what I hear EKBB will soon become Kerala Chief Secretary, which will be a good thing, however I pray and hope that something bad doesn't happen. Until further notice I'm either flying Jet or Indigo domestically.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 106, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9107 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 105): Zaidi was responsible for the Fake Pilot scam either directly or indirectly by turning a blind eye;
Knowing what kind of person he is, I'm inclined to think that directly being responsible is more likely. Anything for a couple more lakhs in his bank account.
Quoting Cricket (Reply 105): Bharat Bhushan had his hands tied many times, but from the few times I met him, he seemed to be an honest officer.
Well, honesty is not a good policy when big money is involved. Surely he knew what was coming to him when he tried to be a reformist...
Quoting Cricket (Reply 105): Ajit Singh is obviously beholden by Mallya's magic and is dancing to Mallya's beat, why would he otherwise directly disobey the Prime Minister in such a decision.
I'm actually surprised about this - from what it seemed recently, Singh was dancing to Goyal's beat - IT shutting down would be welcome...
Quoting Cricket (Reply 105): From what I hear EKBB will soon become Kerala Chief Secretary, which will be a good thing,
Lucky for Kerela. A loss for aviation.
Quoting Cricket (Reply 105): Until further notice I'm either flying Jet or Indigo domestically.
Indeed, not flying Kingfisher is probably prudent. Indeed, it's been that way for months now...
I'll stick to my AI flying of course
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 108, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9041 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 107):
Ajit Singh has been called into PMO tomorrow regarding decision to replace EKBB.
I have a feeling the government will read the riot act to Ajit Singh, tying up with his party did Rahul Gandhi no favours. I doubt they will get rid of him, but seeing at how the the 'Underachiever' cover seems to have jolted the PM, it may not be a bad thing. In fact, Kingfisher's swift denial email today came as a direct result of the PMO cracking down on Ajit Singh; and the Civil Aviation Ministry (read Nasim Zaidi) actually told a news channel today that the PM has 'no authority' on the DGCA. I'm sorry but the Prime Minister is the leader of the government, he might have no authority over a low-level posting in a non-Congress state, but this is bollocks. Bharat Bhushan though has played this very well. Saludos!
Read your post - http://aeroblogger.com/home/blog/spicejet-plans-rapid-expansion/ the DEL Q400 base was overdue and the @spicejet twitter handle had been indicating it, knowing that IT's ATR's operate on many monopoly sectors - Delhi-Shimla as one (fares are 18k return a month in advance) SpiceJet coming in will be a good thing for flyers and be yet another nail in Kingfisher's coffin.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 109, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9024 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 108):
I have a feeling the government will read the riot act to Ajit Singh, tying up with his party did Rahul Gandhi no favours. I doubt they will get rid of him, but seeing at how the the 'Underachiever' cover seems to have jolted the PM, it may not be a bad thing.
I doubt anything will change. MMS is not the type of person who is going to throw the book at anybody...
Hence, underachiever I guess.
Quoting Cricket (Reply 108): ; and the Civil Aviation Ministry (read Nasim Zaidi) actually told a news channel today that the PM has 'no authority' on the DGCA.
WHAT? Which news channel? Link please..
I sincerely hope that MMS/Congress decides to actually do something about this for a change. MoCA deserves everything they get...
Quoting Cricket (Reply 108): knowing that IT's ATR's operate on many monopoly sectors - Delhi-Shimla as one (fares are 18k return a month in advance) SpiceJet coming in will be a good thing for flyers and be yet another nail in Kingfisher's coffin.
No doubt that some destinations (like DED, DHM, JLR) will hit IT pretty hard.
However, the fact that MoCA is going so far as replacing EKBB over this IT issue makes me think that maybe the airline will continue to defy the odds for a while longer...
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
VIDP From India, joined Feb 2010, 151 posts, RR: 0 Reply 110, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8931 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 108): the DEL Q400 base was overdue and the @spicejet twitter handle had been indicating it, knowing that IT's ATR's operate on many monopoly sectors -
Flew into Delhi yesterday saw 4 Q-400,s parked near T3
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 111, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8773 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 109): Quoting Cricket (Reply 108):
; and the Civil Aviation Ministry (read Nasim Zaidi) actually told a news channel today that the PM has 'no authority' on the DGCA.
WHAT? Which news channel? Link please..
CNBC posted this yesterday on their Twitter feed, but was later removed as I can see. basically, the ministry and Ajit Singh's party is arguing that the PMO took this decision without consulting the Minister.
Quoting VIDP (Reply 110): Flew into Delhi yesterday saw 4 Q-400,s parked near T3
Nice, I assume they'll get moved across 10-28 to the rear tarmac of 1D
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 112, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8727 times:
Not sure whether it deserves it
Air India summer schedule, effective 1 Sept 2012:
Flight No.
Departure
Arrival
Aircraft***
Days
AI 312
DEL 01:40
SYD 18:15**
77L/77W/787
12-4-6-
AI 312
SYD 19:45**
MEL 21:20**
77L/77W/787
12-4-6-
AI 311
MEL 22:55**
DEL 06:35*
77L/77W/787
12-4-6-
AI 316
DEL 23:15
MEL 15:40*/**
77L/77W/787
-2-4-6-
AI 311
MEL 17:20**
SYD 18:50**
77L/77W/787
--3-5-7
AI 311
SYD 20:30**
DEL 04:25*
77L/77W/787
--3-5-7
*arrives next day
**From Oct 7 2012 through end of summer schedule, times in Australia to be read 1 hour later
***The flight is expected to be operated on 787, but due to delays, it may start out on 777.
[Edited 2012-07-12 10:20:44]
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
VIDP From India, joined Feb 2010, 151 posts, RR: 0 Reply 114, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8583 times:
Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 113): Don't understand the logic behind the two stops at SYD and MEL instead of just either of them. Very AI-ish move.
In early 2005 TG,s late night flight out of SYD which used to be A346 was routed via MEL they used to cater to both the markets i guess thats what AI intends to do as well.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 116, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8479 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 115): It allows AI to serve both destinations daily using only 2 aircraft..
In the 1980s that was a great strategy. Now it is forcing an extra stop half the time that will make the route less competitive versus a connecting flight (e.g,. SQ at SIN) on those days.
This arrival times are after AI's flights to Europe? (A question as I'm going from memory.)
Let me rephrase that, does AI provide connectivity from Europe to Australia and Australia to Europe? How is the regional connectivity for these flights? (Will they compete with EK for feed traffic or is the timing off for AI?)
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 117, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8480 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 116): This arrival times are after AI's flights to Europe? (A question as I'm going from memory.)
AI's DEL bank to Europe leaves in the afternoon - 1-3 PM.
I wouldn't be surprised to see that changed for the winter schedule.
AI could fit a DEL-LHR-DEL run in between the Australia route - i.e DEL-SYD-MEL-DEL-LHR-DEL... it's still a 2 aircraft rotation...
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 116): How is the regional connectivity for these flights?
It's fine. Domestic connectivity is good - metro cities like BOM, BLR, MAA, HYD, CCU etc. should all fit, and even some tier 2/3 cities like CCJ, GAU, and even IXL fit.
Internationally, not so much. AI's regional international departure bank is evening-time...
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
JOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 426 posts, RR: 1 Reply 118, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8416 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 117): I wouldn't be surprised to see that changed for the winter schedule.
They better, because in any case the evening arrival of the SYD and MEL flights don't have any non-stop onward European connections for another 4-5hrs, and I think it is AI's duty to shift those afternoon European flights to this time slot if they expect any onward transit passengers.
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 119, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8388 times:
Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 118): They better, because in any case the evening arrival of the SYD and MEL flights don't have any non-stop onward European connections for another 4-5hrs, and I think it is AI's duty to shift those afternoon European flights to this time slot if they expect any onward transit passengers.
The timings seem aimed at Indian traffic, not so much international transit passengers.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5156 posts, RR: 49 Reply 120, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8152 times:
When is the GoI goingto approve the Boeing-AI deal? This is getting absurd.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 122, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8132 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 117): It's fine. Domestic connectivity is good - metro cities like BOM, BLR, MAA, HYD, CCU etc. should all fit, and even some tier 2/3 cities like CCJ, GAU, and even IXL fit.
Internationally, not so much. AI's regional international departure bank is evening-time...
I wonder if there is a compatible time at DEL for these flights? There should be; the middle east carriers manage multiple banks to Europe, albeit in the middle of the night.
Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 118): the evening arrival of the SYD and MEL flights don't have any non-stop onward European connections for another 4-5hrs, and I think it is AI's duty to shift those afternoon European flights to this time slot if they expect any onward transit passengers.
Or launch new service. There are multiple ways to be more competitive.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 119): The timings seem aimed at Indian traffic, not so much international transit passengers.
Why not go for both? The Indian airlines have a HUGE O&D advantage over the mid-east airlines. Why not start using that advantage and set up a few 'mega bank' hubbing waves a la EK? Set it up so passengers domestically, regionally, and internationally have good connections. It is far past time for an Indian airline to wake up to this tremendous opportunity. It is an opportunity that should have been seized as soon as AI brought 744s to India.
I hope a good 'hub wave' to/from Australia and SE Asia is set up with excellent connections domestically, regionally, and to Europe. Then we will see an Indian airline achieve its full potential. Only then.
With connections, AI (or 9W or whichever Indian airline does it first) will have higher RASM to Europe. This will allow the 787s to fly more and more missions thanks to the added revenue. It would create a virtuous cycle. Or... business as usual and you see me rebutting complaints against the airlines taking advantage of the open market opportunities.
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 120): When is the GoI goingto approve the Boeing-AI deal? This is getting absurd.
That would definitely be ideal... We're still a few months away from Australia service - it hasn't even been loaded into GDS yet.
Let's see what AI does in terms of European/Gulf scheduling for Winter Schedule before jumping to conclusions about potential connectivity of this route...
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 125, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7768 times:
In fact not jus middle east, but also airports like SIN and BKK have less O&D pax than DEL or BOM to be honest.
There is a HUGE opportunity for an Indian airline to have rapid growth that would benefit the Indian economy tremendously. Not to mention the airline that becomes a dominant carrier.
The next step is a wise alliance membership.
Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 123):
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 121):
It is currently awaiting the opinions of a few more committees...
You are looking at the reason behind AI's condition.
It might be a reason, but if AI is every to become anything, that must stop. No excuses. If AI doesn't start adapting quicker, they will become irrelevant. Not to mention the costs to keep AI flying are more than Indian is able to afford and keep an investment grade bond rating.
The times for AI to take their time adapting are coming to an end. If AI isn't an efficient adaptive operation by the time the new-IST or DWC are fully operational, it won't matter. The market will have moved on.
The mid-east carriers are in a weak position due to their low O&D traffic. If AI/9W/6E or another Indian carrier provides the connecting service on a competitive basis. By competitive basis I mean not only price, but in flight service, connection experience, and flight timing. Some of this will require help from the GoI. Will the right thing be done?
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 124): We're still a few months away from Australia service - it hasn't even been loaded into GDS yet.
Let's see what AI does in terms of European/Gulf scheduling for Winter Schedule before jumping to conclusions about potential connectivity of this route...
Without connectivity, the route will have a more difficult time proving out.
The problem with AI is they think they always have time to react. The issue is, their competition reacts faster. AI *must* increase the pace they adapt. Look at how quickly EK both adds and cancels routes. They are a numbers run company and don't wait to see if they make a mistake, they drive the pace. AI *must* become a numbers run company and adapt quickly.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 126, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7750 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 125): The mid-east carriers are in a weak position due to their low O&D traffic. If AI/9W/6E or another Indian carrier provides the connecting service on a competitive basis. By competitive basis I mean not only price, but in flight service, connection experience, and flight timing. Some of this will require help from the GoI. Will the right thing be done?
My money is on 6E to be a major LCC player, followed by 9W.
Public sector AI is unlikely to be competitive. IMO, AI's presence has been detrimental to Indian aviation and will continue to be so in the future.
goacom From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 72 posts, RR: 0 Reply 127, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7698 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 125): The problem with AI is they think they always have time to react. The issue is, their competition reacts faster. AI *must* increase the pace they adapt. Look at how quickly EK both adds and cancels routes. They are a numbers run company and don't wait to see if they make a mistake, they drive the pace. AI *must* become a numbers run company and adapt quickly.
It is not going to happen. They have been threatening change for the last 3 decades. It may not have mattered in the past, when the airline business was a relatively high margin, low volume business. With the commoditization of this business, it is all about efficiency and volume. There are very few government entities anywhere in the world that operate well in such an environment. I am hoping AI will just crash and burn (no pun intended) and stop being dead weight to the Indian tax payer. The GOI cannot even deliver basic quality education to the masses, and here we have some individuals wanting it to be in the airline business, providing marginal service to society's upper margins!
I totally second Laxdesi's sentiments below. Sorry, but Aeroblogger sounds like an AI shill!
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 126): My money is on 6E to be a major LCC player, followed by 9W.
Public sector AI is unlikely to be competitive. IMO, AI's presence has been detrimental to Indian aviation and will continue to be so in the future.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 128, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7628 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 125): The problem with AI is they think they always have time to react. The issue is, their competition reacts faster. AI *must* increase the pace they adapt. Look at how quickly EK both adds and cancels routes. They are a numbers run company and don't wait to see if they make a mistake, they drive the pace. AI *must* become a numbers run company and adapt quickly.
I agree 100%.
Quoting goacom (Reply 127): Sorry, but Aeroblogger sounds like an AI shill!
The only relationship I have with AI is my Silver Edge status and a bunch of tickets I've yet to fly with them. Certainly not a shill.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0 Reply 129, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7612 times:
what is with the sky high prices ex BLR to the US? It seems unusually high this year .
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1301 posts, RR: 0 Reply 130, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7473 times:
New terminal at Calcutta opens for trials with positive reviews. Now we have to hope they run and maintain it better than the old terminal, and keep it clean!!!
Excerpt: "Calcutta airport’s long-in-the-making integrated terminal had its first trial run on Sunday when passengers of an IndiGo flight used the international arrival lounge and came out gushing about everything from the ergonomics of the design to the elegance of the decor.
The trial run covered just one-third of the terminal with a carpet area of 2.33 lakh square metres, but who could grudge the fliers their enthusiasm after years of enduring an airport that had become an embarrassment?
“The old, overcrowded domestic terminal with stained walls and dirty toilets will thankfully become a thing of the past soon. This terminal is like the ones in Delhi or Hyderabad,” said Sherin, a student from Imphal who was among the 87 passengers of the Mumbai-Calcutta IndiGo flight that touched down at 12.15pm. "
vin2basketball From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 131, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7442 times:
Cross posted from India+China thread b/c should make for some interesting discussion:
Quote:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 13):
There's no doubt that European carriers carry a lot of transfer passengers. However, they are not the main client base - O&D passengers are in general much higher yielding, so they are the focus.
Rohit,
This is actually incorrect. While O+D passengers are higher yielding, most secondary EU hubs (I.e not LHR and to a lesser degree FRA) actually have very little O&D volume, even higher yielding pax. What truly supports EU carriers India ops is a mix of volume from VFR pax from US, and yield from US + Latin America (40 odd India pax/day but higher yielding) biz travel
The EU carriers depend on connections absolutely, b/c remember, there are no nonstops ex India to anywhere except NYC and ORD. So every other destination, some with lots of biz travel like SFO, uses connections. VFR travel is split 4 ways, ~40% goes via the Gulf, ~15 % thru Asia, ~30% thru Europe (incl Jet + Delta), and remaining 15% on the direct US nonstops. Biz travel is a little more mixed, ~20% via Gulf, 40% thru Europe, 20% via Asia, and 20% on Direct US nonstops.
For example, AUS , typically considered the 3rd or 4th tech town in the US (after SJC/Silicon Valley, SEA, and maybe BOS), has more biz+first traffic to BLR than CDG does. CDG is a larger market overall (1.5x-2x larger b/c of VFR but esp. tourism).
The Texas triangle (AUS, IAH, and DFW) has more O+D to India than Germany + France put together...
Nimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3078 posts, RR: 9 Reply 133, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7375 times:
Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 129):
what is with the sky high prices ex BLR to the US? It seems unusually high this year .
Loads going up, and the rupee collapsing. The gulf carriers are of help though - esp to the cities they fly to, you can get pretty good fares on them (like BLR-IAH on QR is always 30K cheaper than LH or so it seems).
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 135, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7309 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 132): It seems that I was vastly overestimating EU traffic...
Or not...
This document[ lists countries in order of O&D demand to India.
1) UAE
2) United Kingdom
3) United States
4) Saudi Arabia
5) Singapore
6) Thailand
7) Oman
8) Kuwait
9) Malaysia
10) Sri Lanka
11) Germany
12) Qatar
13) Canada
14) France
15) Bahrain
16) Australia
17) Bangladesh
18) Hong Kong
19) Nepal
20) Italy
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 131): The Texas triangle (AUS, IAH, and DFW) has more O+D to India than Germany + France put together...
I find it hard to believe that AUS, IAH, and DFW together have more than double the demand of the country of Canada.
Could I have a source for your data please?
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
vin2basketball From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 136, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7288 times:
Saying the overall market was an exaggeration, b/c I made the mistake of only looking at FRA+MUC for Germany, discounting BER, HAM, and esp the Ruhr region (biz ties). And I looked only at Paris and Nice for France.
A few things to note,
1) That document was made w. 2007 data. I'm talking 2011/2012 data. Travel for Indians since then has re-balanced towards the US market somewhat. Current market size is closer to 3.5-3.6 million, rather than 2.5 million. Meanwhile, market size of Germany is around 600k, and market size of France is around 300k for a total of 900k.
2) Texas has close to 400k Indian Americans, + Strong business ties + moderate tourism. VFR alone pushes around 2/3 of India-US traffic (i.e 2.4 million), Texas responsible for around 1/6 of India VFR traffic or 400k. Then, Texas biz + tourist travel pushes close to 150k per annum, so we're talking 550k; throw in ppl that do the stopovers in EU + Dubai, and we're pushing 600k.... So the markets are very close, esp if we only touch core markets (worked out to about 580k for the four I looked at).
Where are you getting your Canadian demand source from. B/c the IATA doc doesnt account for the figures today, which would put Canada ahead of France.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 137, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7263 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 126):
My money is on 6E to be a major LCC player, followed by 9W.
I would agree. My question though is what can 6E do for a hub?
How true are they to the LCC model? Do they hub? If not, much of my discussion would be moot with them.
But India has the potential to host several strong hubbing airlines. I hope to see the feed used far more effectively.
With AI, I personally agree. However, there is a chance.
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 131): Biz travel is a little more mixed, ~20% via Gulf, 40% thru Europe, 20% via Asia, and 20% on Direct US nonstops.
Interesting. No wonder EK makes so much money from the Americas... If a high amount of the high yield traffic is connecting... That traffic is up for grabs.
I'm curious to how the 787 will change that distribution.
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 131): AUS , typically considered the 3rd or 4th tech town in the US (after SJC/Silicon Valley, SEA, and maybe BOS), has more biz+first traffic to BLR than CDG does. CDG is a larger market overall (1.5x-2x larger b/c of VFR but esp. tourism).
I noted you already excluded some airports. But I'm not surprised. Much of what used to be the domain of Southern California businesses is now going to the 'Texas Triangle.' (AUS to DFW to IAH) Note: I live in Southern California.
This document[ lists countries in order of O&D demand to India.
1) UAE
2) United Kingdom
3) United States
4) Saudi Arabia
5) Singapore
6) Thailand
7) Oman
8) Kuwait
9) Malaysia
10) Sri Lanka
11) Germany
12) Qatar
13) Canada
Interesting list. I could believe the "Texas Triangle" has double the traffic of Canada. Easily. If one is only talking front cabin traffic. Rarely does a week go buy when I do not hear of someone departing IAH who hasn't had to either, for premium travel to the mid-East or India:
1. Take two Y seats (companies will pay)
2. An odd routing to gain a premium seat (e.g., IAH-CLT-FRA-DEL)
For premium traffic, it would not surprise me. Also, everything I've read is that CDG is weak on originating (original source) premium traffic. Note: I do not have a definitive link.
However, I'm surprised with Germany. I expected them to have a higher premium traffic flow to India. Then again... I run into German businessmen flying LAX-Germany or DFW-Germany who are having to fly in Y.
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 136): Saying the overall market was an exaggeration, b/c I made the mistake of only looking at FRA+MUC for Germany, discounting BER, HAM, and esp the Ruhr region (biz ties).
Noted. EK would be ok with other airlines ignoring HAM and DUS. They also keep making noise about Stuttgart and Berlin (won't happen, but they'll keep making noise).
vin2basketball From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 138, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7243 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 137):
Noted. EK would be ok with other airlines ignoring HAM and DUS. They also keep making noise about Stuttgart and Berlin (won't happen, but they'll keep making noise).
Lightsaber
Yup, my point remains though; Three cities that compose maybe 4 or 5% of the US population have 2/3s as much O&D traffic as two entire European countries with 200 odd mill in population
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 137):
I would agree. My question though is what can 6E do for a hub?
How true are they to the LCC model? Do they hub? If not, much of my discussion would be moot with them.
But India has the potential to host several strong hubbing airlines. I hope to see the feed used far more effectively.
The long term vision I see is...
AI continues to hub at DEL, whether profitably if privatized or unprofitably if not.
9W takes advantage of the new integrated terminal at BOM to create a true hub.
6E and SG continue to focus on regional routes + domestic connectivity maybe one attacks the perspective below.
Somebody realizes the potential of BLR (with more biz traffic than MAA) and makes it a hub
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 137):
Interesting. No wonder EK makes so much money from the Americas... If a high amount of the high yield traffic is connecting... That traffic is up for grabs.
I'm curious to how the 787 will change that distribution.
My guess is that it will make Asia more attractive (BOS nonstops for example to Japan and China). EK will continue to gain at the expense of the EU carriers as secondary Indian airports grow in biz traffic importance.
UAL will likely pull in another 3-4% to the US by adding EWR-BLR for sure, perhaps EWR-MAA. 787-9 or 777X could bring SFO-BLR to the table but the US market is still too small today to support two nonstop US-BLR flts. AMR might restart India flts but too many variables in terms of mergers to deduce that rigt now.
The majority of high yield traffic will still be connecting 10 yrs from now imho, 15-20 yrs down the line things may be different.
The problem is, that most of the high yield traffic is connecting, b/c NYC/NJ/ might be the single largest source for pure O&D (like 20-25%) of any city, but biz wise it is just one of many players. Much of the biz travel is distributed in the West; W of the Mississippi is close to 50% of US-India biz demand (primarily SJC, SEA, TX triangle, but also LAX, DEN, PDX to a lesser degree.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 137): I noted you already excluded some airports. But I'm not surprised. Much of what used to be the domain of Southern California businesses is now going to the 'Texas Triangle.' (AUS to DFW to IAH) Note: I live in Southern California.
Well I'm Texas born and bred, so I'm quite happy with that
Some quotes:
Air India Ltd, which got a government bailout to avoid bankruptcy this year, is planning its biggest bond sale to refinance costlier debt, as it prepares to add Boeing Co’s Dreamliner planes.
The airline is offering Rs 7,400 crore ($1.3 billion) of 19-year notes at a maximum of 9.5 per cent, according to a statement on its website.
.
.
Industry wide losses at the nation’s airlines totalled more than $2 billion in the year ended in March, according to CAPA. That may narrow to as much as $1.4 billion in the current financial year, the consultant estimates.
“Air India is enjoying an advantage that may not be quite correct, ethically,” said P Phani Sekhar, a trader in Mumbai at Angel Broking Ltd. “There’s no level playing field, if you look from a competition perspective.”
.
.
“If not for the government guarantee, there’s no value in those bonds,” Kapil Kaul, New Delhi-based head of the Indian unit of CAPA, said in an interview on July 13. “To turn around, the airline has to reduce losses and create more viable business model. That hasn’t happened yet. An actual turnaround of operations when the airline starts to break even and makes money is far off.”
JOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 426 posts, RR: 1 Reply 141, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7190 times:
Personally I feel, a lot of 'what will happen in years to come' rests on the fate of AI - its privatization (1% chance) and/or its joining an alliance, including 9W.
What alliance they choose, might decide the frequencies and destinations offered by them and the foreign airlines, if not pax as such.
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0 Reply 142, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7150 times:
Quoting Nimish (Reply 133):
Loads going up, and the rupee collapsing. The gulf carriers are of help though - esp to the cities they fly to, you can get pretty good fares on them (like BLR-IAH on QR is always 30K cheaper than LH or so it seems).
i checked EK to LAX, the prices are quite rediculous ...even for a one way!
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 144, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7110 times:
Pretty cool video posted by 9W on YouTube shows VT-JBC being 'Disney-fied' I really liked this, but wouldn't a A332 been more appropriate given that all HKG sectors are operated by the big planes, or would that have been far too expensive? Anyway nice to see a special livery from 9W again after the Lumia special. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vay7hNRhqEA
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 145, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 7082 times:
Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 129): what is with the sky high prices ex BLR to the US? It seems unusually high this year .
I've been sifting through, and it looks like the AI strike is a major culprit - from September 4th (when AI is scheduled to resume normal operations), fares crash from practically every city ex-India.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0 Reply 146, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7035 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 145):
I've been sifting through, and it looks like the AI strike is a major culprit - from September 4th (when AI is scheduled to resume normal operations), fares crash from practically every city ex-India.
unfortunetly i have to leave before September . There are really good prices on Singapore Air ex US to India, but ive been having a hard time finding a good fare, that to for a one way trip, from BLR.
JOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 426 posts, RR: 1 Reply 147, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7048 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 144): Pretty cool video posted by 9W on YouTube shows VT-JBC being 'Disney-fied' I really liked this, but wouldn't a A332 been more appropriate given that all HKG sectors are operated by the big planes, or would that have been far too expensive? Anyway nice to see a special livery from 9W again after the Lumia special. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vay7h...RhqEA
I totally agree that a 77W or 332 seving HKG should've been painted, but I believe that would either be too expensive or maybe such painting such wide-bodies might be a problem in the India.
But anyways it looks rather nice, hoping to fly the Disney jet next time...!
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
blrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 3 Reply 148, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6978 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 145):
I've been sifting through, and it looks like the AI strike is a major culprit - from September 4th (when AI is scheduled to resume normal operations), fares crash from practically every city ex-India.
mid-june to sept 1st week is high season for US-India travel. The summer holidays in US usually end on first monday of september(US Labor day). So many try to return back from India before then. So fares are pretty high till then. It is the same every year. That's why people in US tend to fly before June 10th. You need to book atleast 3 months in advance for summer travel to get decent fares. one of my friends is flying to India in Aug by paying around $1700, whereas I flew end of may for around $1300. We both booked around the same time in Apr.
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0 Reply 149, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6965 times:
Quoting blrsea (Reply 148): mid-june to sept 1st week is high season for US-India travel. The summer holidays in US usually end on first monday of september(US Labor day). So many try to return back from India before then. So fares are pretty high till then. It is the same every year. That's why people in US tend to fly before June 10th. You need to book atleast 3 months in advance for summer travel to get decent fares. one of my friends is flying to India in Aug by paying around $1700, whereas I flew end of may for around $1300. We both booked around the same time in Apr.
i figured this, but as recent as two summers ago, i got really good deals on roundtrips heading to LAX ex BLR.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 150, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6962 times:
Quoting blrsea (Reply 148): mid-june to sept 1st week is high season for US-India travel. The summer holidays in US usually end on first monday of september(US Labor day). So many try to return back from India before then. So fares are pretty high till then. It is the same every year. That's why people in US tend to fly before June 10th. You need to book atleast 3 months in advance for summer travel to get decent fares. one of my friends is flying to India in Aug by paying around $1700, whereas I flew end of may for around $1300. We both booked around the same time in Apr.
While this is true to an extent, this year is far worse than usual. Capacity discipline, slow economy, crashing dollar/rupee, etc. play a major part for sure, but the AI strike also likely is a significant culprit - the strike cut a ton of international capacity. And since AI usually is putting significant downward pressure on fares, the lack of this pressure is surely letting fares back up...
It's important to remember that the plural of anecdote is not data... However, in the 2 years I worked at a BOS travel agency (specializing in USA-India travel), I never saw fares so high...
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0 Reply 151, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6966 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 150):
While this is true to an extent, this year is far worse than usual. Capacity discipline, slow economy, crashing dollar/rupee, etc. play a major part for sure, but the AI strike also likely is a significant culprit - the strike cut a ton of international capacity. And since AI usually is putting significant downward pressure on fares, the lack of this pressure is surely letting fares back up...
I had no idea the AI strike could drive fares up like this. Why are fares to the West Coast of the US so high though? AI doesnt fly at all to there.
blrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 3 Reply 152, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6981 times:
I really doubt the AI strike driving fares up. They serve very limited destinations on the east coast. And based on few samples that I have observed among people travelling from SEA & SFO, hardly anyone even considers AI, at least to BLR. There are now multiple one-stop options available from SEA/SFO/LAX. From the west coast, it is at least 3 or 4 hops to BLR on AI (sometimes you don't get direct flights to EWR/ORD from SEA/SFO or price may go up).
Another issue is that travel between US and Europe is high. This was my experience the last few times when I flew through Europe. The US-Europe leg of the flight is 100% full in both directions(SEA-LHR , SEA-FRA) where as the Europe-India leg is not 100%. When I booked tickets for my parents on BLR-FRA-SEA, only middle seats were available on the FRA-SEA leg even though booking was 6 weeks in advance.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 153, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7010 times:
Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 151): I had no idea the AI strike could drive fares up like this. Why are fares to the West Coast of the US so high though? AI doesnt fly at all to there.
Quoting blrsea (Reply 152): I really doubt the AI strike driving fares up. They serve very limited destinations on the east coast. And based on few samples that I have observed among people travelling from SEA & SFO, hardly anyone even considers AI, at least to BLR. There are now multiple one-stop options available from SEA/SFO/LAX. From the west coast, it is at least 3 or 4 hops to BLR on AI (sometimes you don't get direct flights to EWR/ORD from SEA/SFO or price may go up).
It's a systemwide impact. The LHR/FRA/SIN/NRT/DXB flights are now carrying the traffic AI normally would as well....
And mind you, I'm greatly oversimplifying...
I doubt that people in SFO or SEA would consider AI, since AI does not serve those cities. It's places like NYC, ORD, YYZ where tens of thousands of people who would normally be flying AI in the next 1.5 months will now be flying the other (limited) options. Supply and demand...
Quoting blrsea (Reply 152): Another issue is that travel between US and Europe is high. This was my experience the last few times when I flew through Europe. The US-Europe leg of the flight is 100% full in both directions(SEA-LHR , SEA-FRA) where as the Europe-India leg is not 100%. When I booked tickets for my parents on BLR-FRA-SEA, only middle seats were available on the FRA-SEA leg even though booking was 6 weeks in advance.
Traffic is high this summer due to Olympic games to be sure... However, seat maps are not particularly helpful - unless you have HON, SEN, or Star Gold status, Lufthansa isn't going to give you a great seat selection regardless of the loads.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
Disney would be paying approx 42L to 9W over two months.
Disney spend 23L on decal & its application.
Disney paid 9w for 48hrs grounding of the Aircraft + hangar charges.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 155, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6830 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 154): Disney would be paying approx 42L to 9W over two months.
Disney spend 23L on decal & its application.
Disney paid 9w for 48hrs grounding of the Aircraft + hangar charges.
That is a lot of money, but I'm sure they will also use the aircraft in their other marketing activities on their channel and all...
JOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 426 posts, RR: 1 Reply 156, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6773 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 130): New terminal at Calcutta opens for trials with positive reviews. Now we have to hope they run and maintain it better than the old terminal, and keep it clean!!!
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 157, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6685 times:
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 138): Three cities that compose maybe 4 or 5% of the US population have 2/3s as much O&D traffic as two entire European countries with 200 odd mill in population
You made your point well.
That traffic will drive the profits in connecting. No wonder *A is screaming over EK. EK provides service to India at far superior hours than the European hubs due to their curfews/slot limits. The 'preferred flying time' is when one may sleep.
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 138): Somebody realizes the potential of BLR (with more biz traffic than MAA) and makes it a hub
I thought IT had a hub there?
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 138): The majority of high yield traffic will still be connecting 10 yrs from now imho, 15-20 yrs down the line things may be different.
I agree. There will be more bypass, but one will never fly for example DEN, AUX, PDX and many other cities to 15 cities in India. So we will see connections.
Quoting goacom (Reply 139): Air India bonds have ZERO value without GOI guarantees:
The surprise is?
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 153): It's a systemwide impact. The LHR/FRA/SIN/NRT/DXB flights are now carrying the traffic AI normally would as well....
This I have to agree with. The AI strike has dried up seats available to India. Combine that with the Olympics driving up USA to Europe fares and it makes seats to India precious this summer.
Why is NRT on your list? I thought ICN had just as low of travel to India (not much). LHR/FRA/SIN/DXB I all understand as major hubs to India.
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 154): Disney would be paying approx 42L to 9W over two months.
Disney spend 23L on decal & its application.
Disney paid 9w for 48hrs grounding of the Aircraft + hangar charges.
This is all for a B737.......
The ad value is one the ground. A Widebody would spend far too much time airborne to be an effective billboard. There are some exceptions (e.g., ANA Pokemon 744.) The shorter the hop, the more people who will see the advertisement.
SLCNate From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 84 posts, RR: 0 Reply 158, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6610 times:
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 138): Somebody realizes the potential of BLR (with more biz traffic than MAA) and makes it a hub
Hub for what?? For connecting domestic with international, it certainly does not have the advantage compared to MAA (now that KF is in the red and VJM not able to dream and publicize his 'king of good time' ideas as before) just based on your assumption of more business traffic. As a domestic, I do not still understand your justification purely based on business passengers. BLR traffic is mostly O&D and without a strong international connectivity, the hub ideas will not be sustainable unless as a regional player connecting IXE, IXM, CJB, TRZ, COK, TRV, etc.
vin2basketball From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 159, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6594 times:
Hub for what?? For connecting domestic with international, it certainly does not have the advantage compared to MAA (now that KF is in the red and VJM not able to dream and publicize his 'king of good time' ideas as before) just based on your assumption of more business traffic. As a domestic, I do not still understand your justification purely based on business passengers. BLR traffic is mostly O&D and without a strong international connectivity, the hub ideas will not be sustainable unless as a regional player connecting IXE, IXM, CJB, TRZ, COK, TRV, etc.
Nate
It needs a strong international full service carrier with integrated domestic to int'l ops, the yields and traffic are there, as of right now, a viable airline to take advantage of that isn't.
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0 Reply 160, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6541 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 153):
I doubt that people in SFO or SEA would consider AI, since AI does not serve those cities. It's places like NYC, ORD, YYZ where tens of thousands of people who would normally be flying AI in the next 1.5 months will now be flying the other (limited) options. Supply and demand...
why are west coast USA fares from India consistently high? Even more so this year? I dont understand how it could be the olympics. I mean now you have several options to the west coast (KE, CA, SQ, TG, EK, TK, Cathay Pacific)..to name a few. Shouldnt fares be lower...?
JOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 426 posts, RR: 1 Reply 161, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6534 times:
Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 160): I mean now you have several options to the west coast (KE, CA, SQ, TG, EK, TK, Cathay Pacific)..to name a few. Shouldnt fares be lower...?
I have seen the pacific-bound flights from India to US to be especially higher at all times. Don't know why that is the reason.
Amongst the atlantic-bound flights, TK provides one of the best fares.
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
blrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 3 Reply 163, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6346 times:
Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 160): why are west coast USA fares from India consistently high? Even more so this year? I dont understand how it could be the olympics. I mean now you have several options to the west coast (KE, CA, SQ, TG, EK, TK, Cathay Pacific)..to name a few. Shouldnt fares be lower...?
Check out fares after sept 10th, and you will see a drastic drop, differences in range of $400-500.
Its sad that they are chasing a controversy rather than getting to a very significant safety issue here.
Has any of the enlightened Journalists or Bloggers cared to probe the Engg non compliance issues raised by the regional directors report. Pray we don't have a hole in the ground before we ask these questions.
A quick forensic investigation of KFA's stock of consumable will highlight the level of compliance with the minimum std of maintenance.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
Quotes:
Claiming his company knew about "artificial competition" from Air India, he said, "But, what we didn't know and regret is the government's relentless effort to keep inefficient private operators in business."
Stating that the government should stop giving relief to the inefficient, he said without naming debt-ridden Kingfisher Airlines, "Government must take decisions that are for the good of the industry and not for the good of a select few."
On Indigo offering new international routes, Bhatia said "On paper we are allowed to fly to other countries. "But when we make an application government gives the right to a selective few. We would love to fly, but government holds on to those rights. This is reverse discrimination and its frustrating," he said.
Quote:
Airports Authority of India (AAI) is opposed to the government's proposal of privatising the Kolkata and Chennai airports, its highest revenue earners, arguing that it is well equipped to manage the facilities, and such decisions can merely undermine the public sector.
"Why aren't the rigid checks and balances relaxed a little for us? Then, we will also be commercially flexible. If public sector is weak, privatising is not the solution. Strengthen your public sector instead of calling in private parties, who don't really care about welfare," senior AAI officials said, hinting at the high airport charges levied by private developers at various metro airports in India.
The state-run AAI has been modernising airports at Chennai and Kolkata at Rs 2,100 crore and Rs 2,350 crore, respectively. While Chennai airport is waiting to be inaugurated next month, Kolkata airport may get completed by October.
Rahul Bhatia has a point, I was surprised that SpiceJet got so many more international routes in its second (or third) batch of routes and Indigo did not get that many. That said, 6E is launching a second daily DEL-BKK flight, although that will just cover the loss of Thai Air Asia and Kingfisher from that sector. Is there politics at play in the Aviation ministry? Obviously, but the ministry should also look out for passengers - more connectivity and lower fares - instead of trying to keep Mallya afloat.
tayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 169, posted (10 months 5 days ago) and read 5564 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 166): Claiming his company knew about "artificial competition" from Air India, he said, "But, what we didn't know and regret is the government's relentless effort to keep inefficient private operators in business."
GOI is planning a bond sale for financing AI. It will be interesting to know the buyers of this bond.
As mentioned in my earlier posts, The survival of AI is to the benefit of some, an inefficient and less competitive AI is better than a more efficient and competitive Airline in that space.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
goacom From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 72 posts, RR: 0 Reply 170, posted (10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5487 times:
Flying low
India’s flag carrier is in big trouble
Jul 21st 2012 | MUMBAI | from the print edition
WELL-TO-DO Indian graduates used to line up to join Air India. The national carrier was founded in 1932 and nicknamed the Maharajah. Singapore and Malaysia sought its advice when setting up their state airlines in the 1970s, as a former director recalls. “This was a temple of modern India,” he sighs.
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Air India spends over a quarter of its operating revenue on employees’ pay and benefits; Jet Airways, a domestic rival, spends a tenth.
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Air India keeps ticket prices uneconomically low. When it slashed prices last year, it forced others to follow suit. That, and India’s high taxes on aviation fuel, make it hard for any airline to earn money.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 171, posted (10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5476 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 166):
Indigo Airlines's Rahul Bhatia alleges government favouring a select few airlines.
From your link:"On Indigo offering new international routes, Bhatia said "On paper we are allowed to fly to other countries.
"But when we make an application government gives the right to a selective few. We would love to fly, but government holds on to those rights. This is reverse discrimination and its frustrating," he said. "
Is a quote worth repeating.
To be blunt, by protecting AI, the GoI has decided to sabotage the other Indian airlines. (Why are they helping Kingfisher other than to 'stair step' the shut down to minimize the impact?) 6E should be expanding quickly within the range of their aircraft.
Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 160): why are west coast USA fares from India consistently high? Even more so this year? I dont understand how it could be the olympics.
We have two things impacting west coast fares.
1. Flights to Europe are quite a bit more expensive due to the Olympics. Due to the downsizing of AI due to the strike, more travelers to India are being funneled through the European airports.
2. IT dropped their flights from HKG, cutting off one opportunity for TPAC fliers.
3. EK cut one flight per day from LAX. But that might be due to the 54k/week seat cap to India.
4. TI (Thai) used to be an alternative for West Coast travelers (several of my friends who regularly flew to India used to prefer that option from LAX), but they have cut service.
So it is not just the Olympics. But the Olympics have made a tight market far worse.
For India to the US business, the most important bilateral to be expanded would be Korea. That would benefit India by increasing auto parts production. But one holdup as been the Korean demand for more air service rights to make ICN a possible hub to India from the North American West Coast. (Add MAA, BLR, and possibly another city.) Instead the two sides do not even meet and more Korean auto parts end up being made in Thailand. It is almost impossible to understand why there is no ICN-MAA flight today. Anyone involved in outsourcing knows how valuable a direct flight is to maintaining and growing business. One would think the GoI would get that...
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 172, posted (10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5433 times:
Quoting goacom (Reply 170): Air India keeps ticket prices uneconomically low. When it slashed prices last year, it forced others to follow suit. That, and India’s high taxes on aviation fuel, make it hard for any airline to earn money.
How bad is it? Well I'm flying DEL-BOM-DEL Thursday out Friday in, and AI was cheaper than both SG and 6E. Sure IT was cheaper, but my hosts have an internal advisory against Kingfisher. As a conscientious Indian income-tax payer, I look upon flying in AI for cheap like an income tax refund. The situation is ridiculous, but Ajit Singh is not going to change it, he might not be as useless as some other ministers in this cabinet but his refusal (and his son's) to take on the Khaps and his sheltering of the Fatman show that he is as ineffectual as any other minister.
Edit: Wanted to ask if anyone here has flown UL I'm likely flying them (provided I get my passport reissued by then) BOM-CMB-MLE-CMB-DEL next week - I have a two-hour layover at CMB outward and three-hours inward; flying Y Class though. Anything to do at CMB to kill time, and please someone tell me where on earth I can smoke at BOM post-immigration/security - last year while waiting for my ET flight I went batty looking for one.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 173, posted (10 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5281 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 171):
To be blunt, by protecting AI, the GoI has decided to sabotage the other Indian airlines.
*facepalm*
What the quote was pointing at was corruption - to get rights to fly internationally, you have to go through various ministries, which will all make life hell unless $$ gets coughed up.
GoI most certainly does not have AI's interests at heart, or the current situation wouldn't exist. Apart from a few Saudi routes, there are practically no areas where private competition is limited - SG is even launching KBL, a longtime cash cow for AI.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
Quote:
Ending months of speculation, Union Minister of Civil Aviation Ajit Singh on Saturday said that the newly constructed Chennai airport would have to be partly privatised. Speaking exclusively to Express while visiting Chennai for the first time after he took charge of the Civil Aviation Ministry, Singh said, “When the project was started, it was intended to be a Public Private Partnership model. In between, AAI (Airports Authority of India) believed that they could run operations but we now feel that partly privatising it will be for the best,” and added that a similar move will be effected for Kolkata airport as well.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 175, posted (10 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5257 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 173): GoI most certainly does not have AI's interests at heart, or the current situation wouldn't exist.
The GoI doesn't have India's business interests at heart either. They do protect AI by slowing and limiting competition.
Or why isn't 6E receiving more international rights?
Why hasn't India signed a new India/Korea bilateral? IMHO the most important bilateral for business growth in India.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 173): to get rights to fly internationally, you have to go through various ministries, which will all make life hell unless $$ gets coughed up.
Then it is time for some house cleaning. Corruption slows economic growth horridly.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 173): GoI most certainly does not have AI's interests at heart,
They're willing to back the bonds. That is a HUGE benefit to AI. The government agreed this year to give the airline a $5.4 billion bailout as long as it met certain financial milestones.
Today was the last day, Spicejet has operated earlier, the cancellation seemed to be an interesting way of getting them in again this year, but given the massive volume of Haj traffic, a few 739ER's won't really fit the bill.
goacom From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 72 posts, RR: 0 Reply 177, posted (10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5189 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 175): They're willing to back the bonds. That is a HUGE benefit to AI.
The government agreed this year to give the airline a $5.4 billion bailout as long as it met certain financial milestones.
This is huge. AI would be able to raise a total of ZILCH if it had no backing of the GOI. Over the life time of he loan, this amounts of hundreds of millions of dollars, if not in the billions. AI has no legitimate excuse to even exist. This waste of tax payer's money needs to be shut down.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 178, posted (10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5175 times:
Quoting goacom (Reply 170): Air India spends over a quarter of its operating revenue on employees’ pay and benefits; Jet Airways, a domestic rival, spends a tenth.
Wow... what a disconnect. One would expect higher due to AI's richer pay scales and more long haul, but not a 5:2 ratio.
Quoting Cricket (Reply 176): Spicejet has operated earlier, the cancellation seemed to be an interesting way of getting them in again this year, but given the massive volume of Haj traffic, a few 739ER's won't really fit the bill.
I'm very curious how the Haj tender goes. It has been seen as an AI bailout in past years, but now there is competition (supposedly, let us see the reality now that AI is back up and running).
Quoting goacom (Reply 177): AI would be able to raise a total of ZILCH if it had no backing of the GOI. Over the life time of he loan, this amounts of hundreds of millions of dollars, if not in the billions.
My estimate is the later figure. Multi-billions in fact due to the vendor financing having the bonds enables.
It is costing the Indian economy dearly keeping AI alive. It must be privatized to survive. I do not wish it to die. But first the payroll must be cut and cut deeply. It is best to do that swiftly. AI must adapt best practices in IT as a start. A few ideas, paperless cockpits, modernize the fleet to more 'software diagnostics' instead of touch labor (788 anyone?), and most of all set up hub banks at DEL, BOM, MAA, and probably BLR or HYD. There is so much potential for a major Indian airline. It amazes me that through incompetence they let the mid-East hub carrier establish dominance in markets AI should have easily owned.
It seems as if AI's management has completely ignored the concept of a route network. The 'network effect' is taught for a reason in business schools. But the connections must be made to enable it... sigh.
I want to see AI thrive, but the 'window of opportunity' is closing. Well, that has been true for a long time. The issue is the window's opening is small and shrinking quickly. If 9W is able to set up a BOM hub with the new facilities as some here have speculated, I'm not sure AI could survive that.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5156 posts, RR: 49 Reply 179, posted (10 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5084 times:
According to PTI the GoM is to take up the issue of the AI-Boeing compensation deal. I don't know what that means in terms of finally having these airplanes delivered or if it's just another cog in the bureaucratic wheel but there it is. I'm only guessing that they're going to make their recommedation yea or nay to the CCEA who will then give it their own yea or nay. Thank god for the free market system here or else nothing will ever get done.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 180, posted (10 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4991 times:
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 179): According to PTI the GoM is to take up the issue of the AI-Boeing compensation deal. I don't know what that means in terms of finally having these airplanes delivered or if it's just another cog in the bureaucratic wheel but there it is. I'm only guessing that they're going to make their recommedation yea or nay to the CCEA who will then give it their own yea or nay. Thank god for the free market system here or else nothing will ever get done.
There are approvals left before CCEA can make a decision, GoM being one of them. Currently, it is hoped that all approvals will be taken care of this week, so CCEA can take up the issue early next week
If CCEA approves the package, AI is hoping for delivery of 3 jets on Thursday or Friday.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 181, posted (10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4926 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 178): It is costing the Indian economy dearly keeping AI alive. It must be privatized to survive. I do not wish it to die. But first the payroll must be cut and cut deeply. It is best to do that swiftly. AI must adapt best practices in IT as a start.
Correct, between AI and IT there are over Rs 40,000 crores that have been sucked out of the economy - money that could have been spent on much needed infrastructure (trans-habour link, Navi Mumbai apt etc) Keeping Air India and Kingfisher alive proves that we are a crony capitalist state that loves giving handouts.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 180): If CCEA approves the package, AI is hoping for delivery of 3 jets on Thursday or Friday.
They'll agree to something I hope, can't wait for the first three birds to arrive at DEL; even though JL beat the home airline to the punch when it came to operations
tayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 186, posted (9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3939 times:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...-packages/articleshow/15320934.cms
Lalit Sheth, the doyen of the Indian travel and tourism industry, is perhaps the only Indian travel industry veteran who dared to take on the might of global majors such as Cox & Kings and Thomas Cook in the leisure tourism space. Ironically enough, it was this competition which may have led him to over-stretch himself and incur losses when the travel industry itself was facing headwinds.
Very few here will appreciate the importance of this man to Indian aviation.
Like Naresh Goyal he was also an Travel agent and he had started his own airline. I still remember that day (circa 1990) when the first RAJTRAVELS ATR72 had landed in Mumbai. My first boss from AI, Mr Baxi had joined Raj Airlines as Dir Engg after retirement from AI. Baxi was an extremely popular bawa manager and hence the whole hanger trouped to visit the aircraft.
It was only after i had left AI and later EK, during my days at Cranfield in UK i realised how pioneering was Raj sheth foresight. In UK i've followed the charter industry very closely as an employee and an consultant. Infact today i was at TCX working on an end of lease aircraft, this 16 yr old aircraft in all probability will be operated to Goa or TRV.
And here we are, a small time indian tour operator who dreamt of starting his own airline like Thomas Cook, 15yrs back, decides to take his own life because of the limitations of INDIAN AVIATION.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
Boeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1259 posts, RR: 0 Reply 187, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3690 times:
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 189, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3452 times:
Quote:
The Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs approved the proposal of Civil Aviation Ministry, at a meeting this evening, and allowed Air India to take delivery of 27 Boeing 787 aircraft after signing the Delay Compensation Settlement Agreement, an official release said.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 190, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3400 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 189): CCEA gives go-ahead to Air India for Boeing 787 Dreamliners delivery.
"A recent incident in which debris fell off a Boeing 787 Dreamliner’s engine during a pre-flight test in the US has led Air India to convey to the manufacturer that it would take deliveries only after the cause of the mishap was established and rectified."
WestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 8 Reply 191, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3144 times:
Bloomberg News spoke to Dinesh Keskar about AI's 787 deliveries and they that AI "will start making plans next week to take delivery". With such carefully crafted wording, I'm not sure what he means. Are AI only doing planning (=forever) or are they taking delivery?
(Edited to improve clarity)
[Edited 2012-08-04 22:37:29]
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 192, posted (9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3053 times:
Quoting WestWing (Reply 191): Bloomberg News spoke to Dinesh Keskar about AI's 787 deliveries and they that AI "will start making plans next week to take delivery". With such carefully crafted wording, I'm not sure what he means. Are AI only doing planning (=forever) or are they taking delivery?
Delivery dates are expected to be confirmed next week. Currently, AI delivery dates are TBD.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 194, posted (9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2580 times:
Noticed something the other day while flying international out of BOM - a lot of remote stands are being used for international flights - saw a LH 343 using airstairs.
And just what is what so many 777's at AI Engg all over BOM, some birds looked like they had been there for days.
BLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 194 posts, RR: 14 Reply 196, posted (9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2552 times:
I wrote this as a proposal (may be for the DGCA to consider). Sorry, last time I posted the whole story, it got canned due to A.Net rules. So this time it is just the link.
Delayed flights vs. late-coming passengers. Giving each other equal rights with United Airlines' 'flat tire' rule.
Please do read the article and feel free to comment here or on the site. Can this work in India? If no, why not AND what changes would you propose to the 'flat tire' rule to make it suitable for Indian conditions.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 197, posted (9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2342 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 196): Please do read the article and feel free to comment here or on the site. Can this work in India? If no, why not AND what changes would you propose to the 'flat tire' rule to make it suitable for Indian conditions.
The biggest problem this will raise in India is the 'Do you know who I am?' syndrome and misuse. I have missed flights thanks to traffic - waterlogging in Delhi years ago and 9W was kind enough (this is 2004, a long, long time ago) to rebook me on the next flight, but that was a full-fare Y on DEL-BOM where there are more than enough flights. But you have also read stories that people in 'khundak' (to use the Hindi word) have called up airlines after missing a flight to call in a threat. Your proposal is an interesting one, and can definitely help airlines build brand value but airlines have to be forward thinking for that!
BLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 194 posts, RR: 14 Reply 198, posted (9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2260 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 197): The biggest problem this will raise in India is the 'Do you know who I am?' syndrome and misuse.
Could you please expand this statement? I am not quite understanding how is it different from right now?
Quoting Cricket (Reply 197): Your proposal is an interesting one, and can definitely help airlines build brand value but airlines have to be forward thinking for that!
This seems to be the general consensus amongst most respondents. Airlines in India are not forward thinking. Will this be something that has to be legislated by the DGCA via a C.A.R.? Or would a consumer interest group want to file a PIL and force this on government?
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 199, posted (9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2231 times:
Air India already has a similar policy - it dates back from a legacy policy years ago which IC had.
You get waitlisted for free, or you get confirmed onto the next available flight for US$50. A bit steep, but better than having to buy a walkup fare I guess.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5156 posts, RR: 49 Reply 200, posted (9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2216 times:
Is there any word on 787 delivery dates to AI? I thought that it would have been decided by now?
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 201, posted (9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2185 times:
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 200): Is there any word on 787 delivery dates to AI? I thought that it would have been decided by now?
Quick chart:
Aircraft # - Estimated Delivery
1| Aug 2012
2 |Aug 2012
3 |Aug 2012
4 | Sep 2012
5 | Oct 2012
6 | Nov 2012
7 | Nov 2012 (although some articles suggest that it has been delayed to Dec)
8 | Jan 2013
9 | Apr 2013
10 | May 2013
11 | Jun 2013
12 | Aug 2013
13 | Nov 2013
14 | Jan 2014
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5156 posts, RR: 49 Reply 202, posted (9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2138 times:
Aircraft # - Estimated Delivery
1| Aug 2012
2 |Aug 2012
3 |Aug 2012
4 | Sep 2012
5 | Oct 2012
6 | Nov 2012
7 | Nov 2012 (although some articles suggest that it has been delayed to Dec)
8 | Jan 2013
9 | Apr 2013
10 | May 2013
11 | Jun 2013
12 | Aug 2013
13 | Nov 2013
14 | Jan 2014
Thansk! Do you have dates for this months deliveries?
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, 
From India, joined Mar 2005, 426 posts, 
From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5200 posts, 
Poor AI, the logic escapes me... AI needs to be run like a business. Rationalize hubbing at DEL/BOM to maximize the RASM and cut the routes that will not be cash flow positive. 
I think AI could boost their long haul RASM another 5% by further optimization at DEL. 
From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1444 posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, 
), and IndiGo's swift and steady expansion.
From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4149 posts, 
From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1546 posts, 
There is a HUGE opportunity for an Indian airline to have rapid growth that would benefit the Indian economy tremendously. Not to mention the airline that becomes a dominant carrier. 
From China, joined Sep 2000, 698 posts,