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Boeing 747's ... Now At Bargain Prices!  
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9499 posts, RR: 26
Posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 29710 times:

Now only $36 million!


Courtesy - Bloomberg News


"Prices for Boeing (BA) Co. 747-400s, the most popular wide-body plane, are tumbling as carriers rush to replace what were once their flagship aircraft with newer and more fuel-efficient models.

Ten-year-old passenger 747-400s are worth a record low $36 million, about 10 percent less than similar aged planes last year, according to Ascend Worldwide Ltd., amid high fuel costs and a cargo slump that has damped interest in converting aircraft into freighters. Forty-eight of the 404 humpbacked passenger 747-400s worldwide have also been placed in storage, according to the London-based aviation consultancy, as the once “Queen of the Skies” is shunned for 777s and Airbus SAS A380s."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-fuel-costs-end-23-year-reign.html


if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31250 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 29564 times:
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My early 2012 valuation consensus for a 2002 delivery 747-400 averaged $44 million, so if that is the new average, the drop is closer to 20% than 10%. That being said, the outlook at the time was super-dismal, so... However, that $36 million figure might be for an example in need of a D-Check or such.

User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1583 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 29525 times:
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This article seems to ignore that crude prices are coming down--not nearly as high as they were-----the 400 (except for the D) is a very efficient a/c with good loads and crude less than $90

User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5302 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 29304 times:

I believe Virgin Atlantic got a fantastic deal on the renewal of their 747 leases that enabled the refits for next to nothing.

User currently offlineB757forever From United States of America, joined May 2010, 425 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 29241 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 3):
I believe Virgin Atlantic got a fantastic deal on the renewal of their 747 leases that enabled the refits for next to nothing.

The same holds true for DL.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26022 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 29205 times:

Still not much a bargain.

Can get a MD-80 for mere $500,000



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31250 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 29056 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Can get a MD-80 for mere $500,000.

Not even that - $300,000 will get you a 1981 vintage MD-81 or a 1983 vintage MD-82.

I love the MD-82's trend analysis: "The MD82 is available in numbers and the manufacturers of soda cans are grateful for the metal that is now becoming available."   


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9697 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 28991 times:

It doesn’t make sense at first thought, but I think a big reason why the 747-8 is not selling well is high fuel prices. The 747-8F is not selling that well because 747-400 converted freighters are cheap. With relatively low time 747s on the used market (50,000 hr 747s are widely available), the market rate for 747-400s is really low. That results in cheap freighters and it makes it hard to justify a 747-8F at new prices based on fuel burn and payload increases. Airlines rushing to replace 747-400s with A380s and 77Ws has killed the 747-8F.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineflyingcaT From United States of America, joined May 2007, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 28350 times:

The people of Family Airlines. Avatar Airlines, Battleship Airlines and now Avengers Air are taking this all into consideration.

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7859 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 26890 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Can get a MD-80 for mere $500,000

I could sell my family's house and my cousin's house and buy an MD-80 easily    The real challange of course is maintenance. Is it worth it?



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7754 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 26683 times:

No, the real challenge is staying alive once they find out  .

User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 26580 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Still not much a bargain.

Can get a MD-80 for mere $500,000

Thats it? Man I hope they take discover so I can get my cash back to pay for fuel .
I'm surprised the 747 is so cheap. I understand they aren't as efficient but you would think with the 777 being so tough to get on the second hand market that these would sell like hot cakes. Big jets, good range, seems like a deal to me for the right price.
Blue



All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7859 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 26578 times:

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 11):
No, the real challenge is staying alive once they find out .

   most my family is aging anyway and we just had 2 aunts die in the last year, and we've been hard pressed to find a use for the money  

In all seriousness, though:
Would a 30mil 744 be worth it in the long run? Would spending more for a 748 and saving a buttload on maintenance costs be a better option, or what?



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1872 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 26360 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
In all seriousness, though:
Would a 30mil 744 be worth it in the long run? Would spending more for a 748 and saving a buttload on maintenance costs be a better option, or what?

Depends on how much time remains before its next heavy check as well as checking out the maintenance records etc. A new 748 will run you many times more than that amount. It will burn less fuel and is new but the up front acquisition cost is huge.

DL in contrast is picking up used a/c and renewing leases at bargain rates. They decided that the low acquisition /retention costs is worth it when you factor in fuel and maint.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7859 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 26282 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 14):
DL in contrast is picking up used a/c and renewing leases at bargain rates. They decided that the low acquisition /retention costs is worth it when you factor in fuel and maint.

Hmmmmm the way you put it, I think that you're implying that DL may want these 744s   



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1872 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 25913 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
Hmmmmm the way you put it, I think that you're implying that DL may want these 744s  

LoL

Given their current fleet plan, I doubt it but they do love a bargain. I wouldn't mind seeing more 744's in DL livery!


User currently offlineaxelesgg From Sweden, joined Jan 2010, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 25620 times:

I bet Iran wants them!

User currently offlineaircanadaA330 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 25053 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 3):
I believe Virgin Atlantic got a fantastic deal on the renewal of their 747 leases that enabled the refits for next to nothing.

kinda off topic....but do leasing companies publish current leasing rates?



Cheers;
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8171 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 24886 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 2):
This article seems to ignore that crude prices are coming down

Really? A barrel of oil is actually going to return to $35? Huge new reserves found? China and India - neither of whom have any oil - are going to stop moving towards living like Americans, and cancel their orders for 000s of jetliners, and close their car factories, and return to their pre-millenial agrarian peasant lives? Or, there's been a tiny and statistically-meaningless drop that will last two weeks before the price of a barrel of crude resumes it's immutable march towards $200 / barrel and (way) beyond?



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3311 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 24557 times:

Couldn't FedEx use a couple for very busy routes? They had their eye set on A380s and still have not ruled out ordering some in the future. Why not some 744s?


"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineKKephart13 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 24299 times:

PeopleExpress can get the 747's and hop the Atlantic from PHF... Thats a money maker right there...   

User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9697 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 24243 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 20):
Couldn't FedEx use a couple for very busy routes? They had their eye set on A380s and still have not ruled out ordering some in the future. Why not some 744s?

FedEx is relatively committed to the 767 and 777s. UPS is the one picking up 747-400s as they have used freighters and some of the last new build 747-400s.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20241 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 23354 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
Would a 30mil 744 be worth it in the long run? Would spending more for a 748 and saving a buttload on maintenance costs be a better option, or what?

Depends on usage, I suppose. Low-use operations such as VIP (oil barons and the like) might find these prices tempting. Low-usage charter operators like WO might also be interested. And maybe they can be pressed in to service for the Hajj?


User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1583 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 23664 times:
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Quoting cedarjet (Reply 19):
Really? A barrel of oil is actually going to return to $35? Huge new reserves found? China and India - neither of whom have any oil - are going to stop moving towards living like Americans, and cancel their orders for 000s of jetliners, and close their car factories, and return to their pre-millenial agrarian peasant lives? Or, there's been a tiny and statistically-meaningless drop that will last two weeks before the price of a barrel of crude resumes it's immutable march towards $200 / barrel and (way) beyond?

I did not say it was going back to $35 but more and more experts are seeing the price continue to moderate and my point was that this could be for a number of years and makes the 400 more desirable----when Romney is elected watch the drilling increase (thank goodness)


User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 22869 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 25):
Depends on usage, I suppose. Low-use operations such as VIP (oil barons and the like) might find these prices tempting. Low-usage charter operators like WO might also be interested. And maybe they can be pressed in to service for the Hajj?

World can barely operate with what it has now. The block hours for an MD-11 are too high, and they are too big for most customers. 744's have even higher operating costs. They learned that witth the 744F's.



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
25 Stitch : About $43 million for a 2003 delivery, though the trend analysis was as weak as for the 747-400 (the A340-600 is a fair bit more fuel efficient, but
26 CX Flyboy : Remember World recently offloaded one of their 744Fs to Evergreen. With the number of the planes in storage at the moment I highly doubt they are in t
27 mtyfreak : I'll take 2 with with fries please!!
28 juantrippe82 : Wishful thinking. The US has nowhere near the amount of oil to make any difference in the markets.
29 Post contains links DocLightning : I don't want to take this off-track, but under Obama, drilling has increased massively in the U.S., far more than it has under any president in histo
30 AADC10 : Efficient compared to what? It has the triple whammy compared to the 777 of being less efficient in per seat fuel costs, higher trip costs, and less
31 AA777223 : As someone who has worked for (and still works for) two of the largest offshore drilling companies on earth, I can assure that NO, drilling has NOT i
32 Post contains images sunking737 : Do you think Allegiant would give any the once over for International flights??
33 Post contains links DocLightning : http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/201...r-drilling-drop-gas-prices-103271/ Just look at the graphs. Don't read the text. The numbers have sources. Go c
34 nycdave : Not to go too off-topic, but that's a pretty strange note to end on, given that drilling increased more in 4 years of Obama than in 8 years with a fo
35 Post contains links vin2basketball : Actually huge new reserves in the forms of tight oil, and oil shale. Introducing the green river formation; between 1.5 and 2.4 trillion recoverabe b
36 Post contains images sweair : Swiss might be able to do great deals If they go for used ones.
37 N202PA : At those prices, it seems like it'd be wise for any new airline entering the market to pick up a dozen or so of these and standardize their fleet aro
38 tdscanuck : They're talking total drilling, not just offshore. The shale boom grossly covered up the dropoff in offshore drilling. Tom.
39 Post contains images PHX787 : That would be the day Or what about the new PEOPLExpress ? Maybe these smaller planes could go better for a startup or something, IMO. I don't think
40 travelhound : It becomes a little expensive when you have to do a C check every 3000 sleeps
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