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United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl  
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11024 times:

Source: http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2012/0...d-airlines-raises-bag-fees-to-100/

You have got to be kidding me!

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10938 times:

Some international fares are incredibly low. You can fly from LAX to SYD for as little as 205.00 each way. IAH to LHR for 175.00 each way. A big problem for airlines is that some countries and/or overseas airports charge HUGE taxes or fees. Australia is almost $500.00 (yes, regardless of the fare charged by the airlines) and Great Britain is almost as much. So, on a 400.00 fare, the cost of the ticket is pushed to almost $1000.00 with additional taxes and fees. Airlines are not making huge amounts of money on most fares, but the public doesn't realize, or care. They just think they're getting ripped off.

User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10866 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):
They just think they're getting ripped off.

For $100 to haul a bag from NYC to LHR, I'd say that's being ripped off!


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21092 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10772 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):
Airlines are not making huge amounts of money on most fares

They could always raise them if they're having trouble making money.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDLD9S From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10688 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):
A big problem for airlines is that some countries and/or overseas airports charge HUGE taxes or fees. Australia is almost $500.00 (yes, regardless of the fare charged by the airlines) and Great Britain is almost as much. So, on a 400.00 fare, the cost of the ticket is pushed to almost $1000.00 with additional taxes and fees.

Sorry, but most of that "tax" is really fuel surcharges that go directly to the airline just like the base fare... Proper taxes, security fees and surcharges are more in the $75-$150 range...



717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
User currently offlinemaxamuus From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10631 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 2):

For $100 to haul a bag from NYC to LHR, I'd say that's being ripped off!

Wonder what Fedex charges for a 50 lbs. package same day service from NYC to LHR ?


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3964 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10587 times:

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 5):
Wonder what Fedex charges for a 50 lbs. package same day service from NYC to LHR ?

I think we would easily be talking four digits for same-day service. That hundred bucks isn't so bad!


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2195 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10570 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
They could always raise them if they're having trouble making money.

Therein lies a big part of their problem. I'm over simplifying, I know, but they have been under pricing themselves for so long, they've deminished the percieved value of the product.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6942 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10532 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 2):
For $100 to haul a bag from NYC to LHR, I'd say that's being ripped off!

I checked UA for SFO-NRT (and for practicality sake, PHX-NRT with a layover) and it's $2,000. Round trip. Outrageous to have to pay that much more for international bags.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10498 times:

Here is the DL policy for NA to Europe:
80 USD/CAD or 56 EUR² if checked in online
100 USD/CAD or 70 EUR² at the airport

So, the UA policy matches the DL policy in conceptual terms.

I do not see this as outrageous. If people don't want to pay it there are MANY ways to get around this fee and some do include for those that do not travel that much.

edit: for pointing out the DL policy is for 2nd bag

[Edited 2012-06-13 20:10:12]

User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 989 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9973 times:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this only applies to certain African countries...unless I'm somehow reading this wrong.

http://www.united.com/CMS/en-US/travel/Pages/CheckedBaggage.aspx

Quote:
**For tickets purchased on or after June 1, 2012, for travel on or after June 1, 2012, a second bag service charge of $100 applies for travel between North America, South America, Europe, the Middle East and Africa to/from the following countries in Africa: Algeria, Botswana, Egypt, Libya, Madagascar, Malawi, Morocco, Mozambique, Nambia, Tunisia, Zambia, and Zimbabwe.

The bolding is mine.

Edit: Yeah, I think I'm reading it wrong. The wording isn't very clear. Good thing I'm *G I guess..

[Edited 2012-06-14 02:22:54]

[Edited 2012-06-14 02:23:23]


If I wanted your opinion, I'd give it to you!
User currently offlinetrav110 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 536 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9912 times:

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 5):
Wonder what Fedex charges for a 50 lbs. package same day service from NYC to LHR ?
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 6):
I think we would easily be talking four digits for same-day service. That hundred bucks isn't so bad!

Just calculated it on Fedex, to get a 50 lb suitcase from NYC to LHR the fastest option would be leaving Friday and arriving Monday, and that's $1544. Not even a same day option available.


User currently offlineJosh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 355 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9691 times:

This charge is for the second bag--not the first. Why is it so ridiculous to charge for the second piece???

User currently offlinekalvado From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9674 times:

Quoting trav110 (Reply 11):

Just calculated it on Fedex, to get a 50 lb suitcase from NYC to LHR the fastest option would be leaving Friday and arriving Monday, and that's $1544. Not even a same day option available.

with guaranteed delivery to the door and money back in case of 10 minutes delay.
Once airlines have anything remotely similar in CoC, then comparison would become valid.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9457 times:

Quoting kalvado (Reply 13):
with guaranteed delivery to the door and money back in case of 10 minutes delay.
Once airlines have anything remotely similar in CoC, then comparison would become valid.

There's more to it. No one decides last minute that they need a second bag. It's people who travel on vacation that usually need a second bag and those people don't need last minute, same day delivery. I find $100 to be a rip-off considering they're already ripping me off with the fuel surcharge on top of the fare which includes fuel costs but i think pax are learning to pack lighter as a result of these baggage fees. Where I see a problem is traveling with sports equipment like skis and golf clubs which in many cases it's considered a second bag. I'm not a golfer but for $100 it's a lot cheaper to rent skis for the week than to carry my own.


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 6729 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9298 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):
A big problem for airlines is that some countries and/or overseas airports charge HUGE taxes or fees. Australia is almost $500.00 (yes, regardless of the fare charged by the airlines) and Great Britain is almost as much.

I would expect the airlines also make money on the taxes, after all, they do not remit those taxes to the government immediately after they collect them. Smart companies probably deposit those funds in high interest daily accounts and probably remit to the government on a monthly basis minus the interest, heck I would not be shocked to know that some governments actually pay the airlines a fee for "collecting their taxes"

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
They could always raise them if they're having trouble making money.

Agree, let the blame fall where it should rather than join the movement to "hide" the problem.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 2):
For $100 to haul a bag from NYC to LHR, I'd say that's being ripped off!

FedEx, DHL and others should apply to the airports to obtain space close to the airline counters like the guys who shrink wrap your bags, I'm certain with the added volume these companies can beat the airline prices, especially since they are flying older more gas guzziling a/c, flying on their own schedule, and charging premiums prices to companies who want products delivered overnight. So just as the same a/c has a first class and Y, each flight would be carrying priority bags / packages as well as those that were given to them two days earlier.

Shipping pax bags is already a new business, there are some who have already started, until somone big like DHL or FedEx does the same.........


User currently onlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4091 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9260 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
I find $100 to be a rip-off considering they're already ripping me off with the fuel surcharge on top of the fare which includes fuel costs but i think pax are learning to pack lighter as a result of these baggage fees.

Why is it a ripoff to charge for a 2nd bag? I never bring a 2nd bag with me on any flight, so why should my ticket price cover the cost of lifting your 50 lb suitcase off the ground? Your bag adds weight, that weight makes the plane heavier, which means more fuel has to be burned to get from point A to point B. If it already costs $2000 to move a 200 lb person, $100 for an extra 50 lb (in addition to how ever much carry-on and your first bag) does not seem at all unreasonable to me. If you don't want to pay it, learn to travel with less stuff.


User currently offlinehohd From United States of America, joined May 2008, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9219 times:

Not many check 2nd bags since the fee was high at $70. DL and UA decided that they will not lose any more business by raising it to $100 as those who opt to check for second bag are going to pay $30 more anyway.

But it is a problem for people buying tickets in Africa, Middle East or India, as many buy from travel agents who mistakenly or delibrately tell them that 2 bags are allowed to US (since some airlines do and some dont) and get into shouting matches at the airport with the staff.


User currently offlinekalvado From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9218 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 16):
If it already costs $2000 to move a 200 lb person, $100 for an extra 50 lb (in addition to how ever much carry-on and your first bag) does not seem at all unreasonable to me.

Those flying non-rev should be royally pissed off by such approach.


User currently onlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4091 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9201 times:

Quoting kalvado (Reply 18):
Those flying non-rev should be royally pissed off by such approach.

Non-rev benefits have nothing to do with this discussion.


User currently onlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3333 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9148 times:

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 12):

This charge is for the second bag--not the first. Why is it so ridiculous to charge for the second piece???

Because when you are flying long haul you may be going for a longer period of time and warrant 2 bags. Also most airlines on international long haul allow 2 bags. Many times I have been charged for a heavy first bag and I could have simply walked over to the travel shop and bought a duffel bag for $10 and checked the second bag free of charge.

Question now does this apply on a points ticket without *A status in Y and when does this take effect?



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlinekalvado From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8604 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 19):

Non-rev benefits have nothing to do with this discussion.
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 16):
If it already costs $2000 to move a 200 lb person, $100 for an extra 50 lb (in addition to how ever much carry-on and your first bag) does not seem at all unreasonable to me.

You are contradicting yourself. Common argument towards non-rev is that "the seat would be empty otherwise, so airline doesn't loose anything". Similar argument could apply here - that hold space would be empty otherwise.
Incremental cost of fuel for flying a person trans-atlantic is around $20, bag - $5; ground handling of a bag is probably same $5 at most.
(edit:grammar)

[Edited 2012-06-14 07:46:46]

User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1459 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8575 times:

Quoting DLD9S (Reply 4):
Sorry, but most of that "tax" is really fuel surcharges that go directly to the airline just like the base fare... Proper taxes, security fees and surcharges are more in the $75-$150 range...


EWR-LHR
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax $16.70
U.S. Security Service Fee $2.50

LHR-EWR
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax $16.70
U.S. Customs User Fee $5.50
U.S. Immigration User Fee $7.00
U.S. APHIS User Fee $5.00
U.K. Air Passenger Duty $100.67
U.K . Passenger Service Charge $53.41

It's $19.20 on the way out and $188.28 on the way back for a total of $207.48

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):
Australia is almost $500.00 (yes, regardless of the fare charged by the airlines)

You must be including fuel surcharge or something which is not a government item.

LAX-SYD
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax $16.70
U.S. Security Service Fee $2.50
Australia Passenger Service Charge $25.16

SYD-LAX
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax $16.70
U.S. Customs User Fee $5.50
U.S. Immigration User Fee $7.00
U.S. APHIS User Fee $5.00
Australia Passenger Movement Charge $46.36
Australia Passenger Service Charge $25.16

Totals to $150.08


User currently offlinenethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 1044 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8440 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 20):
Because when you are flying long haul you may be going for a longer period of time and warrant 2 bags. Also most airlines on international long haul allow 2 bags. Many times I have been charged for a heavy first bag and I could have simply walked over to the travel shop and bought a duffel bag for $10 and checked the second bag free of charge.

That's because you people carry everything you can, more than what you really needed.
Solution? easy, pack what is really needed!!
Reuse a few sweaters and limit yourself to maximum of two fancy outerwear when travel to colder climate.
It's not like everyone is going to Milan fashion week.
And when you go to warmer climate you carry lighter stuff, hence more costume/outfit to carry with.
No need to throw your junk and carry them with you. It's a waste of energy too!
More fuel burn due to junk items being carried with you.



Let's just blame it on yields.
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21092 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8416 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 16):
I never bring a 2nd bag with me on any flight, so why should my ticket price cover the cost of lifting your 50 lb suitcase off the ground?

I believe we have reached the point where airlines are making so much off of baggage fees that they can afford to keep base fares lower than they otherwise would. So who is really subsidizing whom?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1459 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8835 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 24):
I believe we have reached the point where airlines are making so much off of baggage fees that they can afford to keep base fares lower than they otherwise would. So who is really subsidizing whom?

-Mir

Airlines waive baggage fees for so many customers that they are still making a loss. I've studied it in depth, baggage fees are only charged on something like 30% of bags.


User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8822 times:

To fedex a 50lb package from Chicago to london is $525 USD and that will take 5 days, so 100 for real time delivery is not too bad in comparision.

In all honesty I can make 1 roller carryon and a checked bag last me 2 weeks if not longer, I do not understand why people would need a second checked bag unless they are shipping their worldly goods over. In this case I have no problem with this charge as in my mind your ticket is for what you need to bring, not to corrier over goods to another country for what ever reason.


I often do not even try to bring any checked bags, especially when I go to asia I bring the bare minimum amount of clothing and just get it laundered over there for next to nothing (I like to get it laundered before I leave, makes packing much quicker and it is nice to when I get home I have clean clothes right away)


User currently offlineboeing773W From South Africa, joined Mar 2012, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8743 times:

It is so sad to see what American airlines are doing. I understand that the American market is competitive and airlines are really struggling but European carriers for example allow you 2 free bags of checked in luggage on routes to and from North America and some destinations in South America. Service, food and IFE are generally better too and planes are overall newer. I won't even comment on Gulf airlines or some major Asian airlines.

Given the choice between say, BA, LH, AF, LX, EK, QR, CX, SQ (too name a few) and an American carrier, I just don't see why anyone would choose to fly on the latter. But maybe I just don't fly American carriers enough to appreciate the positive things about them.


User currently offlinesirloin From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8626 times:

My question to all of those who say that they don't feel they should be subsidizing those of us who check bags would be the following: assuming it is really you who is subsidizing free bags, you did it for decades without complaint, so why is it a problem now? None of you would have said anything if fees for the first bag had never been discussed, but since they were, all of a sudden it's a problem?

Also consider the effects that a refusal to check bags has. It ties up security lines while those with 2 full-sized carry-ons (which certainly don't meet the 1 carry-on, 1 personal item requirement) have to sort through everything, only to be followed by those of us who take a grand total of 5 seconds to sort our meager amount of carry-on items in preparation for being screened. It's those who refuse to check bags that slow down boarding processes trying to get all of their stuff situated while those of us who checked our bags can easily just plop ourselves into our seats and be good to go. Lastly, it's those who refuse to check bags that force those who already did to check even more because all of the overhead bin space is completely gone.

I have nothing against the businessmen and businesswomen of the world who are the self-proclaimed kings and queens of carry-ons as their willingness or ability to pay the high fares keep the airlines going. I'm just saying that each type of passenger makes some sort of sacrifice for the other, and with these baggage fees, each type likely subsidizes the other in some fashion. I'm personally in favor of simply raising fares because you know what? Everybody, from the high rollers to the once-a-year vacationers, shares the burden, and it seems more ethical to me to sell your product at a price that can actually make you money instead of short-selling it and then nickel-and-diming people to make up the cost. It just seems silly.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18696 posts, RR: 58
Reply 29, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8290 times:

As I've said before, the airlines are all but begging congress to start passing legislation banning this practice. It already happened with ground delays. Now it is going to happen with baggage fees.

User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8122 times:

Unless I am going to the middle of the jungle, in which case I would not carry a lot anyway I just dont get why people need to check in a second bag anyway, especially if its clothes. Too many people travel with so much junk in their baggage it just staggers me when I check in some time and see what people think they can get away with. Jeez its 2012, ever heard of a washing machine? And please dont get me started on the size of some passengers carry on luggage!

I say UA, DL should charge these fees, mark my words others will follow.

Rant over.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3964 posts, RR: 8
Reply 31, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7883 times:

Quoting trav110 (Reply 11):
Just calculated it on Fedex, to get a 50 lb suitcase from NYC to LHR the fastest option would be leaving Friday and arriving Monday, and that's $1544. Not even a same day option available.

The same-day service is generally always an option - you just have to go through different channels to obtain it. It is not offered on the website nor at most locations. It is handled generally via third party contract and will probably cost twice what the overnight price would be, if not much more.

Quoting par13del (Reply 15):
FedEx, DHL and others should apply to the airports to obtain space close to the airline counters like the guys who shrink wrap your bags, I'm certain with the added volume these companies can beat the airline prices, especially since they are flying older more gas guzziling a/c, flying on their own schedule, and charging premiums prices to companies who want products delivered overnight. So just as the same a/c has a first class and Y, each flight would be carrying priority bags / packages as well as those that were given to them two days earlier.

For domestic shipping, FX would still cost more than the airlines are charging, unless the passenger is ok with their luggage arriving three or more days after they do. Internationally customs would be an issue and could potentially hold up luggage as well, plus they would be giving a deep discount which I don't see anyone doing. FX, UPS and DHL already carry luggage for the airlines, items that were misrouted or that missed a flight. It's a very normal occurrence for these companies to be the ones to deliver someone's late luggage to their house and I'm sure the airlines pay a pretty penny for them to do so.

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 26):
To fedex a 50lb package from Chicago to london is $525 USD and that will take 5 days, so 100 for real time delivery is not too bad in comparision.

If you ship something priority overnight on Fedex, it will not take 5 days unless it's over a weekend and customs REALLY holds things up, especially on a one-stop flight like ORD-STN.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 32, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7754 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):
Some international fares are incredibly low. You can fly from LAX to SYD for as little as 205.00 each way. IAH to LHR for 175.00 each way. A big problem for airlines is that some countries and/or overseas airports charge HUGE taxes or fees. Australia is almost $500.00 (yes, regardless of the fare charged by the airlines) and Great Britain is almost as much. So, on a 400.00 fare, the cost of the ticket is pushed to almost $1000.00 with additional taxes and fees. Airlines are not making huge amounts of money on most fares, but the public doesn't realize, or care. They just think they're getting ripped off.

100 USD for a 23 kg bag is a rip off when they sell a ticked covering a passenger weighting somewhere between 40 and 100+ kg plus one bag at 23kg + a lot more space and structure for 205 USD.

Your use of taxes is irrelevant in this discussion.

Quoting kalvado (Reply 13):
with guaranteed delivery to the door and money back in case of 10 minutes delay.
Once airlines have anything remotely similar in CoC, then comparison would become valid.

I think very few people are prepared to pay 14 times as much for those extras.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5251 posts, RR: 8
Reply 33, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7745 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 16):
Why is it a ripoff to charge for a 2nd bag? I never bring a 2nd bag with me on any flight, so why should my ticket price cover the cost of lifting your 50 lb suitcase off the ground? Your bag adds weight, that weight makes the plane heavier, which means more fuel has to be burned to get from point A to point B. If it already costs $2000 to move a 200 lb person, $100 for an extra 50 lb (in addition to how ever much carry-on and your first bag) does not seem at all unreasonable to me. If you don't want to pay it, learn to travel with less stuff.

Your example is erroneous. Luggage does not require safety equipment and personal care (of some level), it does not require a seat and entertainment and food, it does not require emergency equipment, the list goes on. If you could move passengers the same way as luggage (not that modern air travel isn't trying to get there) it might work but it doesn't.

Quoting sirloin (Reply 28):
My question to all of those who say that they don't feel they should be subsidizing those of us who check bags would be the following: assuming it is really you who is subsidizing free bags, you did it for decades without complaint, so why is it a problem now? None of you would have said anything if fees for the first bag had never been discussed, but since they were, all of a sudden it's a problem?

Actually it has now become a fact that it is those with bag fees that are subsidizing the other passengers. And those "others" those that don't pay a fee don't want to lose that subsidy....

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7522 times:

Quoting nethkt (Reply 23):
That's because you people carry everything you can, more than what you really needed.
Solution? easy, pack what is really needed!!

So what am I going to do when my wife and I have to pack luggage because we are moving from the US to Germany in January? I guess that people leaving for extended trips or moving should only pack one small suitcase too?


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7469 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 33):
Actually it has now become a fact that it is those with bag fees that are subsidizing the other passengers. And those "others" those that don't pay a fee don't want to lose that subsidy....

THIS!!!

Basically, this is the shining example of the airlines having a knee-jerk reaction because they couldn't manage their businesses correctly for so long...and now we're paying for it. Frankly, we should let the capitalist system work and let the whole lot go under...Chapter 11 be damned!


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7320 posts, RR: 24
Reply 36, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7452 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 34):
So what am I going to do when my wife and I have to pack luggage because we are moving from the US to Germany in January? I guess that people leaving for extended trips or moving should only pack one small suitcase too?

No one is forcing you to do anything. If you dont want to pay the price, dont pack the bag.

Besides, if your moving to Germany for anything work related, wont the cost be covered by your job?



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineimag From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2007, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7455 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 30):
Unless I am going to the middle of the jungle, in which case I would not carry a lot anyway I just dont get why people need to check in a second bag anyway, especially if its clothes. Too many people travel with so much junk in their baggage it just staggers me when I check in some time and see what people think they can get away with. Jeez its 2012, ever heard of a washing machine? And please dont get me started on the size of some passengers carry on luggage!

But what about the coming back part? I always fly with minimal luggage to the US, wash stuff on the go, but generally bring stuff back. Not high value stuff, but I love things like grits, Thanksgiving handwashes, American Eagle...all the unique stuff. Suddenly from having a free second bag not so long ago, to paying $100, it makes things not so cheap anymore. So I'll just cut back my shopping. That and start carrying a full hand luggage, rather than the small backpack with just the essentials.

But hey, it's business, I'm sure it won't be long until everyone is charging $100 and more. But I'm also free to take my business elsewhere and generally avoid United.


User currently offlineodwyerpw From Mexico, joined Dec 2004, 793 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7191 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 7):
Therein lies a big part of their problem. I'm over simplifying, I know, but they have been under pricing themselves for so long, they've deminished the percieved value of the product.

Very simply put!

We travel Mexico to New York serveral times a year, often staying in New York for upwards of 6 to 8 weeks. We used to drive it. The rational was we were able to visit friends and family along the way and when we arrived, we had our car for the entire duration, not relying on relatives (who absolutely objected to us renting a car for such an extended period). Furthermore, we really enjoyed those trips (5 to 6 days each way). Expensive, yeah.

However, as we get older (we are only 40, but still), we dont drive as fast, as long and prefer nicer meals and lodging. We have priced ourselves out of driving. It is too expensive.

Now we fly. We bus it from Guaymas, Sonora, Mexico to Tucson AZ. Then fly Tucson AZ to Albany NY. The return is the reverse. Sometimes, we will drive our car from Guaymas to Tucson and leave it in remote parking (yeah that costs too) at the airport. Lets us do a little shopping and errands in Tucson before returning to Guaymas. We might even break up the trip by staying in a hotel after the flight...and completing the drive the next day. Expensive, yeah.

Point is, travel is expensive... my wife and I have excepted that when we go Mexico to NewYork it is going to cost $1200 and 2 to 3 days with the bus/drive/fly combo. Or it is going to cost $2000 and 10 to 12 days with the all drive combo. Flying wins out, every time. We take the money saved and put it in an envelope for my inlaws so that they can buy something nice for the house in exchange for their hospitality.

7 Years ago, we stopped expecting to find $200 X 2 = $400. It's not sustainable for the airlines and doesn't cover the cost of moving two people and 3 to 4 bags of their goods across the continental us. Want to save money on travel...buy local...carpool to work...and live within 50 miles of relatives. Otherwise, pay up.



Quiero una vida simple en Mexico. Nada mas.
User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1459 posts, RR: 2
Reply 39, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7144 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 33):
Actually it has now become a fact that it is those with bag fees that are subsidizing the other passengers. And those "others" those that don't pay a fee don't want to lose that subsidy....

Tugg

I've already posted this once, but bags as a business lose money. Only 30% of bags are even charged a baggage fee, so no baggage fees are not subsidizing anything, they're not even paying for the infrastructure it takes to manage checked luggage.


User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7044 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 36):
No one is forcing you to do anything. If you dont want to pay the price, dont pack the bag.

Besides, if your moving to Germany for anything work related, wont the cost be covered by your job?

yes he will fill it out on his travel voucher (though many airlines don't charge those on official orders), because if he is moving to Geilenkirchen for NATO AWACS the gov't covers all costs on the flights to BRU (the normal airport of choice unless you have animals (then it is FRA).

This just matches the Delta fee already in place.



Ciao Windjet mi manchi
User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7022 times:

Quoting imag (Reply 37):
But what about the coming back part? I always fly with minimal luggage to the US, wash stuff on the go, but generally bring stuff back. Not high value stuff, but I love things like grits, Thanksgiving handwashes, American Eagle...all the unique stuff. Suddenly from having a free second bag not so long ago, to paying $100, it makes things not so cheap anymore. So I'll just cut back my shopping. That and start carrying a full hand luggage, rather than the small backpack with just the essentials.

But hey, it's business, I'm sure it won't be long until everyone is charging $100 and more. But I'm also free to take my business elsewhere and generally avoid United.

Hey, find me a Brit that in the past has not taken an extra bag and stuffed it full of clothes etc in the past and thown it all in the hold..........but those days of oh so sheap stuff, cheaper oil etc have gone and the current economics dictate that airlines will do this. UA I am sure will probably look at this to try and encourage people not to bring that extra bag and not charge as opposed to wanting to get their hands on the dosh but if they do, so be it. As i said others will follow and as you say, you have a choice you can fly with someone else anyway.


User currently offlinejmbweeboy From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6640 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 35):
Quoting tugger (Reply 33):
Actually it has now become a fact that it is those with bag fees that are subsidizing the other passengers. And those "others" those that don't pay a fee don't want to lose that subsidy....

THIS!!!

Basically, this is the shining example of the airlines having a knee-jerk reaction because they couldn't manage their businesses correctly for so long...and now we're paying for it. Frankly, we should let the capitalist system work and let the whole lot go under...Chapter 11 be damned!

Could not agree more! Let's remember, just another small step on the way to "Air Amtrak"!

For what it is worth, it will help destroy the air/sea business from the U.S. to the Baltic and Mediterranean cruises in the summer months. If one travels, for e.g., on a 12 night Med cruise, tough to get away with just a carry-on, no less one bag alone. Air/sea from the U.S. to Europe is way off this year due to the cost of the air fares. Now with $100 2nd bag baggage fees, that will only further serve to decrease that business.

JMBWEEBOY


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6516 times:

UA elites and *A Gold probably get the 2nd bag free.

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
They could always raise them if they're having trouble making money.

Passengers, particularly the non-elites (aka Kettles) book on price. Fares are dictated by market forces and the fares are barely high enough to be profitable on average. Most airline CEOs will tell you that they do not set the fares. Airlines are so commoditized that for most, the economy experience is largely the same and airlines just set whatever fare is needed to keep the planes full. Expanded networks and refined algorithms are able to predict demand and price sensitivity better than ever so the airlines have a good idea of how many seats in each bucket at whatever fare keeps the planes full. The goal is to limit the number of unprofitable passengers and a la carte fees reduce those numbers. Elites get perks and the Kettles pay fees to get back some on those deeply discounted fares.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5885 posts, RR: 2
Reply 44, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6374 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 15):
I would not be shocked to know that some governments actually pay the airlines a fee for "collecting their taxes"

they do here in BZE. It is a common practice, especially in smaller countries.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineirelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 45, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6351 times:

The "second bag" fee for international just seems like gouging unprepared travelers. The point is they can get away with it, just like Spirit can get away with selling you a 9 dollar fare and then charging you 40 bucks for your carry on.

The unfortunate part is it's sort of a bait and switch. I pay UA $1,000 dollars for a trip to Europe just for the privilege of getting to the airport and finding out that I owe even more money. A la carte pricing is kind of stupid for something like air travel. For me, I'd want to pay everything up front and not have to worry constantly. Then you have air travel booking sites that let you sort by lowest price...

The solution? I think the closest we can get is to offer the a la carte pricing but do it up front, at the time of booking. Yes you don't know if you will be checking bags or not 3 months or more in advance. BUT you do know that you would pay $25 for unlimited bag checkin 3 months in advance. And you'll pay $20 for an "upgraded" meal. And you'll pay $20 for a nice amenity kit with a neck pillow, headphones, etc. Point is, compared to the initial price shock ($1,000) the "add-on" options don't seem to bad, relatively speaking. Whereas at the airport that initial price shock has been paid off, it's a sunk cost already, and anything extra seems like a huge horrible inconvenience.

-IR


User currently offlineatnight From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 605 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6302 times:

I have to say that those who think this practice is OK, or "good" or "about time", because many people carry "so much junk", should really think twice before stating something like that.

Most international pax coming to the USA (and then leaving) go back to their countries with lots of purchases that they make while here in the USA (is an economic benefit for the USA). These are people who are the majority of foreing visitors and turists to the USA. We can also include those traveling from here to visit family overseas, and usually they travel once a year and take as much gifts as possible.... these are the BULK of all international travel from the USA. We are not talking about the business traveler who get their tickets paid for by their company. We are not even talking about those people like many of us here, who love to fly and try to find a way to get in an airplane as often as possible. YES, for people like us, it doesn't really matter, but for the GREAT majority of people that travel internationally from the USA, this type of charge makes a difference.

What people who are defending USA airlines for making these type of charges don't you realize, is that airlines don't have to depend on bag fees to be profitable. There are plenty of international airlines that don't have such huge charges and are always profitable. For example, most (if not all) airlines from latin America, allow 2 bags FREE. You have LAN, AVIANCA, COPA, TACA, etc, that are profitable and still allow 2 free bags. Those airlines are only expanding and people are choosing them instead of AA, DL, UA or US when travelling to/from the USA to Latin America.

Also remember too that countries like Brazil, have a 70 pound, 2 bags free policy to any airline that travels to their country, so to Brazil, UA, AA and DL have to allow 2 free bags of 70 pounds no matter what. So take apart Brazil, and the market in latin america is growing more for Latin carriers than USA carriers, simply because the bulk of pax are not happy paying for tickets and then having to find out they have to pay an extra bag. So it probably will be similar when flying to other destinations in due time. In all honesty, when flying US airlines internationally, their levels of pax comfort is still below other options and that is why other airlines are booming while US airlines are struggling .

I just think this is not the best way to get customers and keep them....can they learn anything from Southwest? Wait till they start flying internationally...



B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 47, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6295 times:

This is the equivalent of throwing the frog into boiling water vs. slow boiling the frog...

User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 2677 posts, RR: 8
Reply 48, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6278 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 16):
Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
I find $100 to be a rip-off considering they're already ripping me off with the fuel surcharge on top of the fare which includes fuel costs but i think pax are learning to pack lighter as a result of these baggage fees.

Why is it a ripoff to charge for a 2nd bag? I never bring a 2nd bag with me on any flight, so why should my ticket price cover the cost of lifting your 50 lb suitcase off the ground? Your bag adds weight, that weight makes the plane heavier, which means more fuel has to be burned to get from point A to point B. If it already costs $2000 to move a 200 lb person, $100 for an extra 50 lb (in addition to how ever much carry-on and your first bag) does not seem at all unreasonable to me. If you don't want to pay it, learn to travel with less stuff.

But what if it's a necessity to travel with more stuff?

Quoting nethkt (Reply 23):
That's because you people carry everything you can, more than what you really needed.
Solution? easy, pack what is really needed!!
Reuse a few sweaters and limit yourself to maximum of two fancy outerwear when travel to colder climate.

I'd rather pack more and not need it than pack little and need more. I remember when I went to Europe in 2005. We were told to bring 1 bag (which in the end was a problem when other brought 2 bags) and I had to stuff it. The only day I had to do laundry (which I had mentioned over and over since I joined the tour group) I couldn't go because I was underage and no adults in my group wanted to get out of the hotel. Do you have any idea on what it's like to reuse underwear? I didn't mind the shirts or the pants since it was rather cool and I bare sweat. Sometimes, packing just what is needed is not practical.

To put it into an airline's perspective, airlines don't fuel their planes only on what is really needed. They also take into account delays and auxiliary fuel for a diversion, and even then pilots are known to ask for a bit more.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 29):
As I've said before, the airlines are all but begging congress to start passing legislation banning this practice. It already happened with ground delays. Now it is going to happen with baggage fees.

I know it's not the place, but Congress (especially this one) won't act on this. Ground delays were one thing because it was out of customer's hands whether an airplane stayed on tarmac for hours without providing its passengers with basics (and even then, the flight should be cancelled and passengers taken off). However, they'll hinge on the excuse of the free market and that you are free to select the airline of your choice. For instance, United is charging $100 for your second bag to FRA? Find another airline that will charge less.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12420 posts, RR: 100
Reply 49, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6303 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Now we know what the cargo uplift of widebodies is for. The oh so profitable 2nd international bag.  

For myself, I wouldn't be happy. But as a cheap flyer, airlines have to figure out some way to get money out of me...

For business, I'm a different customer. But then again, its not my money.  
Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 12):
This charge is for the second bag--not the first. Why is it so ridiculous to charge for the second piece???

We are in agreement.

Quoting jmbweeboy (Reply 42):
For what it is worth, it will help destroy the air/sea business from the U.S. to the Baltic and Mediterranean cruises in the summer months. If one travels, for e.g., on a 12 night Med cruise, tough to get away with just a carry-on, no less one bag alone

How will it destroy the cruise business for $200 or $400 per couple/family? (One or two bags, fee for each way.)

Articles I've found indicate the cruise industry is growing, but I'll reply as if the Baltic/Mediterranean industry is impacted.

Quoting jmbweeboy (Reply 42):
Air/sea from the U.S. to Europe is way off this year due to the cost of the air fares.

I'm certain there are *many* other factors having a bigger impact than airfares:
1. Weak dollar
2. Costa Concordia in the media
3. Film of Greek riots on TV has certainly cut interest in Mediteranian cruises.
4. The persistant economic malase.
5. New competition (The cruise industry is growing quickly in Asia, Dubai, and other new locations.)

Airlines are not making money. Like it or not a huge part of the airfare goes to fuel and oil at above $75/bbl is tough for airlines to deal with if they have newer equipment. This is one way to try and make more revenue. Not a big deal.

Greece is (was?) 17% of the European cruise market. Is their economic situation effecting booking? Note, the way the numbers are done for this article, I think they are so trailing, but if correct, indicate growth!
http://www.maritime-executive.com/pr...despite-difficult-economic-climate


The cruise industry always needs new customers and the Costa Concordia has impacted sales:
http://cruisefever.net/0531-cruise-i...ing-from-costa-concordia-accident/

Besides, Nude cruising is becoming more popular.  http://www.eturbonews.com/29709/nake...-cruising-enjoying-vigorous-growth

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 542 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5775 times:

These bag fees are expensive if its sensitive to your finances. A man walks by and sees a watch in a glass case for $3,500 and says its way more than he would pay for a watch. Ten years later the same man see a similar watch for the same price and considers it a deal and buys the watch. Moral of the story is that if you can afford it you can and if you cant you cant.   

User currently offlineCruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1000 posts, RR: 7
Reply 51, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 5043 times:

I only get upset when an airline charges for the first bag. The second one is a choice, but if you are really going on any sort of trip (other than for business), then you really do need a bag.


Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 6729 posts, RR: 8
Reply 52, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4811 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 31):
For domestic shipping, FX would still cost more than the airlines are charging, unless the passenger is ok with their luggage arriving three or more days after they do.

I see it being practical for families returning from vacations where you usually purchase additional items which require extra bags, and since you are going home, you can afford to wait two to ther days for your clothes. I'm taking bets that there are some smart aviation folks already shipping when returning home.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 35):
Frankly, we should let the capitalist system work and let the whole lot go under...Chapter 11 be damned!

How will this solve the problem, those folks who invest in the airlines in Chpt. 11 will simply use their money to start up a new airline, they may start up smaller but they will still start. Chpt.11 is not all about wiping out salaries and benefits, someone must be found to invest money in the airline.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 53, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4819 times:

Quoting jmbweeboy (Reply 42):
Could not agree more! Let's remember, just another small step on the way to "Air Amtrak"!

Actually, Amtrak provides customers with two free carry-on bags and three free checked bags. The seating in coach on long-distance trains is comparable to domestic business on most American carriers. Amtrak exceeded the typical airline a long time ago.

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 51):
I only get upset when an airline charges for the first bag. The second one is a choice, but if you are really going on any sort of trip (other than for business), then you really do need a bag.

It's very easy to take a weekend's worth of winter clothing in a carry-on or even a personal item.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12420 posts, RR: 100
Reply 54, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4743 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 51):
I only get upset when an airline charges for the first bag.

   Do not get me started on carryone fees either. Then again, I *try* to book on airlines where one bag is included. I so wish the search engines based fares on user-set preferences (e.g., traveling with one bag).

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 53):
It's very easy to take a weekend's worth of winter clothing in a carry-on or even a personal item.

A weekend for a single person? Ok. With kids?   
And the fact no one is checking is why the overhead bins are so *^%$ing full. I bias my selection to airlines with one free bag. Do enough people? I don't know.

Quoting par13del (Reply 52):
I'm taking bets that there are some smart aviation folks already shipping when returning home.

           

My sister, when visiting our parents, mails ahead gifts, a suitcase, and other items. Since I'm usually flying for business/liesure where the destination is unlikely to accept items a few days ahead of time, I'll just ship on the way home.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlinepoLot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2047 posts, RR: 1
Reply 55, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4687 times:

Quoting boeing773W (Reply 27):
It is so sad to see what American airlines are doing. I understand that the American market is competitive and airlines are really struggling but European carriers for example allow you 2 free bags of checked in luggage on routes to and from North America and some destinations in South America.
BA, AF, LH, and LX don't allow for a free second checked bag unless you pay full fare economy (on some airlines), are an elite member. or on certain itineraries (mostly US-Europe-India/Middle east/Africa). In fact if I am reading LH/LX's website right their second baggage fee are also $100 (the horror!). And that is a reduction from their normal intercontinental fee of $200 for the second bag! I guess it is good that LH/LX are aligning with UA and not the other way around...

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 54):
A weekend for a single person? Ok. With kids?

Isn't it one free bag per a person, not per a family ? I honestly don't know, all my travel has generally been by myself since airlines started implementing bag fees.

[Edited 2012-06-14 14:39:26]

[Edited 2012-06-14 14:40:00]

User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5251 posts, RR: 8
Reply 56, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 39):
I've already posted this once, but bags as a business lose money. Only 30% of bags are even charged a baggage fee, so no baggage fees are not subsidizing anything, they're not even paying for the infrastructure it takes to manage checked luggage.

Actually, if anything, my statement could fail because nowadays almost all bags have some kind of "fee" attached to them when you get right down to it (except on those airlines that do not charge for bags for econo passengers/basic tickets). Nowadays to avoid the cash fee you must do other things which make the airlines extra money. Either use a specific credit card or fly a lot (and be part of the FF program) or use premium tickets/services, etc. And the reason why they do cover the infrastructure costs to manage them? NO one would fly your airline if you did not transports the flyers bags.

Are FF's able to use their miles to pay for their bags yet? If they aren't yet than I am sure that someday soon they will get the "benefit" of being able to do so. I am sure it will become part of the new benefits allowed FF's.

Tugg

[Edited 2012-06-14 14:51:37]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinepoLot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2047 posts, RR: 1
Reply 57, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4527 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 56):
Are FF's able to use their miles to pay for their bags yet? If they aren't yet than I am sure that someday soon they will get the "benefit" of being able to do so. I am sure it will become part of the new benefits allowed FF's.

They don't have to, most FF statuses allow at least one free checked bag on domestic flights with higher statues allowing for more on international flights.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5251 posts, RR: 8
Reply 58, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4426 times:

Quoting poLot (Reply 57):
They don't have to, most FF statuses allow at least one free checked bag on domestic flights with higher statues allowing for more on international flights.

Yes, for now.

What I am saying is that airlines will change this (well US airlines). And to many it will be OK because, well, aren't you already getting "something for nothing" (yes, I know they are paying with being loyal) with FF miles anyway? What's another (few) thousand for a bag bag? Do you not think it will not happen?

I think there is a saying regarding this (google "First they came"). Just sayin'....

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3964 posts, RR: 8
Reply 59, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4416 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 52):
I see it being practical for families returning from vacations where you usually purchase additional items which require extra bags, and since you are going home, you can afford to wait two to ther days for your clothes. I'm taking bets that there are some smart aviation folks already shipping when returning home.

I've done it. Especially if you are looking at your additional items equating to a third bag or more, yeah I'll drop it off with FX Ground and it'll get to me in about three or four days. Airline employees do get a discount with Fedex...it's the equivalent of interline discount since obviously there is no standby seating on FX...  
Quoting OB1504 (Reply 53):
Actually, Amtrak provides customers with two free carry-on bags and three free checked bags. The seating in coach on long-distance trains is comparable to domestic business on most American carriers. Amtrak exceeded the typical airline a long time ago.

I think the comparison was referring to the fact that Amtrak is completely government subsidized, but yes, in terms of comfort and amenities Amtrak blows the airlines away. I would even say coach seating on the train is better than domestic business...more legroom at the very least.


User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 752 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4325 times:

Oh Gawd..now you guys got me commenting...

The way i see it is, if you need more than a carryone and a checked bag, then pay the $100!!
A carryon bag and one checked in bag should would last me an eternity... i have learned to pack very light. I think most people that travel alot know how to pack light.
I travelled with a friend a few weeks ago to AMS for a week - I travelled with a carryon. My friend had a carryon and a huge *ss checked in bag. As you can see there are a few different ways to travel... if you need it that bad..pay for it.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6942 posts, RR: 18
Reply 61, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4276 times:

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 12):
This charge is for the second bag--not the first. Why is it so ridiculous to charge for the second piece???

When I travel to Japan, I am in Japan for a long time, and require a lot of stuff to be taken over there. I needed 2 bags last time and one of my bags was actually overweight. Traveling abroad for a long time is really a huge hassle already, why make it more of a hassle?

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 16):
I never bring a 2nd bag with me on any flight, so why should my ticket price cover the cost of lifting your 50 lb suitcase off the ground?

It shouldn't, and I agree with what you're saying. However, I think both airlines AND baggage companies should develop ways to make the residual effect of baggage hamper the flight less. Design a lighter bag, weight distribution, etc.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 29):
As I've said before, the airlines are all but begging congress to start passing legislation banning this practice. It already happened with ground delays. Now it is going to happen with baggage fees.

How could congress act on this?

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 48):
For instance, United is charging $100 for your second bag to FRA? Find another airline that will charge less.

What other airline would charge less?



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 62, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 52):
How will this solve the problem, those folks who invest in the airlines in Chpt. 11 will simply use their money to start up a new airline, they may start up smaller but they will still start. Chpt.11 is not all about wiping out salaries and benefits, someone must be found to invest money in the airline.

Because the airlines driven into that arena by their own stupidity won't have that blanket of Ch 11 and thus go to Ch 7...see ya!




Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 12):
This charge is for the second bag--not the first. Why is it so ridiculous to charge for the second piece???

So what if you have stuff in said bags for your job or whatnot that you can't carry on to the jet (liquids, sharp objects, etc)?


User currently offlinesoftrally From Canada, joined Mar 2012, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3525 times:

IMHO, charging $100 for a second bag is okay. It's not charging for the first checked bag. In addition to that, UA has cheap fares compared to many other airlines. I paid $1502 for a round-trip flight from YYZ to ICN. If I were to fly that same route via AC, I would have paid $2200. Actually, $100 for a second bag isn't that bad. AC charges $225 for a second bag.


Flown on: 738, 744, 762/763, 772, 77W, 788, A306, A318/319/320/321, A332/333, E145, E190, CRJ700
User currently offlineWarmNuts From United States of America, joined May 2006, 94 posts, RR: 4
Reply 64, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3397 times:

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 5):
Wonder what Fedex charges for a 50 lbs. package same day service from NYC to LHR ?
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 6):
I think we would easily be talking four digits for same-day service. That hundred bucks isn't so bad!

This is kind of like comparing apples to enemas. Unless, of course, UAL is going to pick up my 50-lb. "package" at my front door step, chauffeur it to the airport, load it, fly it, unload it, and personally deliver it to its destination all while I track its progress from my Comfy Chair at home. I'm guessing this might result in a slight marginal increase over the $100 fee.

Conversely, if I had to accompany my package on FedEx - after paying FedEx for airfare from JFK to LHR - and I alone was responsible for hauling said package from the airport to its end destination, well, $100 wouldn't seem like such a good deal then, would it?

 


User currently offlineJosh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 355 posts, RR: 1
Reply 65, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2683 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 62):
So what if you have stuff in said bags for your job or whatnot that you can't carry on to the jet (liquids, sharp objects, etc)?

Put it in the first bag, for which there is no charge. Or buy travel-size containers and transfer less than 100 mL of the various products you intend to use so you can carry them on board.

I'm just tired of this expectation of not paying a fair price for the services people receive. As has been pointed out numerous times on this forum, even with recent increases, airfares are a fraction of what they should be when taking overall inflation into account. It's unreasonable to compare the services received for a $500 transatlantic ticket in 1985 to a $1,000 ticket today.

Only with this ancillary fee revenue are airlines beginning to break even or make money--and even then only for a quarter or two at a time.

Honestly, I'm surprised DL, UA, and every other airline isn't charging for the first bag on all flights. Is that prohibited by treaty or something? I'm assuming the reason flights to/from Brazil are still permitted two bags up to 32 kg (70 lb.) each at no additional charge is only because the Brazilian government requires that.

These baggage charges are all the product of deregulation. What's worse? Would you rather pay an overall higher fare to cover the cost of carrying two bags for every passenger at no additional charge or only pay for the baggage you actually transport?


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12420 posts, RR: 100
Reply 66, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week ago) and read 2524 times:
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I personally wouldn't care about bag fees (or other fees) if I could set up my Orbitz/Kayak/Travelocity or any other web airfare search preset to my preferences.

When is a site going to allow choices on bags, food, seat preference (including group seat preference) and even seat pitch (exit row) with or without recline? That site would quickly become my favorite travel search tool. (e.g., Hawaii flight with one bag each for a couple with seats next to each other, exit row but the row that can recline with a meal).

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 65):
Honestly, I'm surprised DL, UA, and every other airline isn't charging for the first bag on all flights. Is that prohibited by treaty or something?

Market expectations aren't there yet. One has to 'boil the frog.' In other words, increase the pain slowly or else customers would rebel against the first airline.

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 65):
I'm assuming the reason flights to/from Brazil are still permitted two bags up to 32 kg (70 lb.) each at no additional charge is only because the Brazilian government requires that.

   Because lowering the allowance was perceived to hurt Brazilian tourism so they passed a law mandating two heavy (by today's standards) bags. This forced everyone on the same playing field. I'm ok with a la carte. I just want an easy way to find airfares with my preferences.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3097 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week ago) and read 2495 times:

The first bag fee is the one I think we have a right to complain about. Forcing carry ons is slowing everything down and still weight for the airlines.

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 25):

Airlines waive baggage fees for so many customers that they are still making a loss. I've studied it in depth, baggage fees are only charged on something like 30% of bags.

30% in what way. Domestic, International, all, or for one airline. I can tell for a fact on the legacies domestically that figure is not remotely close. The amount of legacy elites that don't check bags domestically is huge and despite what people on a.Net think most flyers are not elites.


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