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Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration  
User currently offlinecloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 855 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17973 times:

Does anyone know what kind of seating configuration Delta will have on their 739's? Some of these will be replacing 757s, will they be keeping the increased first class section or continue with the 4 rows of first as on other 737s?


"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17966 times:

Quoting cloudboy (Thread starter):
Does anyone know what kind of seating configuration Delta will have on their 739's? Some of these will be replacing 757s, will they be keeping the increased first class section or continue with the 4 rows of first as on other 737s?

UA has five rows of F on their 739ERs; I presume DL would do the same.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 17519 times:

What I know I'm going to hate is boarding through 1L and that makes predeparture drinks and coats a nightmare with that many pax. Perhaps the best feature of the 757 is that blessed 2L door...alas.


My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 17052 times:

Quoting B727FA (Reply 2):

That is my favorite part of the 757. For some reason, that one extra door makes the plane so much nicer looking. Also, seeing a narrowbody with a jetway hooked up to a second door s very cool to me.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9828 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 17004 times:

I'd expect about 20F 24Y+ and 140Y or something very close to that.

The question is if there will be a closet and lavatory between F and Y. CO's configuration is very nice with the mid cabin lav as it makes the airplane feel much more like a 757 and eliminates Y traffic in F during the flight. However, I would not be surprised if DL sticks 3 lavs in the back.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineBDL757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 16898 times:

Quoting B727FA (Reply 2):
What I know I'm going to hate is boarding through 1L and that makes predeparture drinks and coats a nightmare with that many pax. Perhaps the best feature of the 757 is that blessed 2L door...alas.

Agreed! The 757 just seems to board so much quicker and more relaxed; at least from a GA's point of view.


User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 16784 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):
Also, seeing a narrowbody with a jetway hooked up to a second door s very cool to me.

  


User currently offlinejc2354 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16618 times:

I think the 2L door, on a narrow body, spoiled all of us. I looked at the Boeing site for the 737-900, and couldn't find an answer.

Could, would, or does, Boeing offer the option of moving the 1L door further down the fuselage towards the wing? No need to move the 1R door. That would add the convenience of near-mid cabin boarding. First class would remain somewhat quiet without all the congestion and confusion. Cabin capacity wouldn't change. There shouldn't be any structural integrity issue.

Would any airline order it, if it was an available?

Jack



If not now, then when?
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9828 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16544 times:

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 7):

Could, would, or does, Boeing offer the option of moving the 1L door further down the fuselage towards the wing? No need to move the 1R door. That would add the convenience of near-mid cabin boarding. First class would remain somewhat quiet without all the congestion and confusion. Cabin capacity wouldn't change. There shouldn't be any structural integrity issue.

I don't see that as an option at all. It has been since the 727-100 and 747-100/200 when Boeing designed non symmetric exit door configurations for a passenger jet.

When it comes to what airlines want, they prefer lower weight rather than boarding convenience. The 737-900ER could have had a full size door ahead of the wing, but it is much lighter to have the class C exit hatch behind the wing.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 16303 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 8):
but it is much lighter to have the class C exit hatch behind the wing.

And I'm guessing DL will forgo those exits and have them plugged like CO did to save weight.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinepoLot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2371 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15887 times:

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 7):
Could, would, or does, Boeing offer the option of moving the 1L door further down the fuselage towards the wing? No need to move the 1R door. That would add the convenience of near-mid cabin boarding. First class would remain somewhat quiet without all the congestion and confusion. Cabin capacity wouldn't change. There shouldn't be any structural integrity issue.

That might be against regulations. There needs to be doors in both directions for evacuation purposes (the nose of the 747 is grandfathered in) but I'm not sure if only a door on 1 side would cut it, or if they need to include doors on both sides of the fuselage in case one is blocked.


User currently offlineskymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 546 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 12924 times:

Without the beloved L2 door boarding will be slower, but will the turn-around times be increased to compensate?

It appears to me that they are cut to the practical minimum now (and totally understandable in that the aircraft needs to be full and in the air not on the ground) but just observe the slow grinding process at an airport that has fairly high VTR traffic. BUF in winter comes to mind -- with all the coats, carry-ons and the straggling unloading I have rarely ever seen DL turn their MD80's in 40 minutes without high stress!

It would seem to mt that 50 min would be required for the 739's.



I love to fly, and it shows!
User currently offlineskymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 546 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12793 times:

Without the the beloved L2 door the boarding will be much slower, but will turnaround times be increased to compensate?

Having watched many times what happens at gates with high VTR traffic which tend to be slow unloading and loading I think that some of times allocated are on the low side (understanding that the aircraft needs to be full and in in the air). BUF in winter is a good example -- DL struggles to get the MD80's turned in 40 min due to the mess of carry on bags, coats, etc, even with the gentle encouragement of gate agents and on-board F/A's.

It seems that at least 50 min will need to be allocated for the 739



I love to fly, and it shows!
User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12557 times:

Quoting poLot (Reply 10):
That might be against regulations. There needs to be doors in both directions for evacuation purposes (the nose of the 747 is grandfathered in) but I'm not sure if only a door on 1 side would cut it, or if they need to include doors on both sides of the fuselage in case one is blocked.

Interesting. I'm curious then how the CRJ series aircraft get away with no aft exit. Pax at the rear of that airplane (a long ways from an exit on the 900 and 1000) have only an exit forward, no way out aft.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineB777Boeing From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12541 times:

Quoting poLot (Reply 10):
That might be against regulations. There needs to be doors in both directions for evacuation purposes (the nose of the 747 is grandfathered in) but I'm not sure if only a door on 1 side would cut it, or if they need to include doors on both sides of the fuselage in case one is blocked.

What about the CRJ/ERJ series?


User currently offlinedc9northwest From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 2302 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12445 times:

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 13):
Interesting. I'm curious then how the CRJ series aircraft get away with no aft exit. Pax at the rear of that airplane (a long ways from an exit on the 900 and 1000) have only an exit forward, no way out aft.

Apparently the new rules came in after the CRJ-100 was designed... And just like on the 737 (which I heard wouldn't pass some new rules) the other CRJs are "grandfathered" in. The CRJ/ERJ design would apparently not pass inspectors today.


User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12392 times:

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 15):
Apparently the new rules came in after the CRJ-100 was designed... And just like on the 737 (which I heard wouldn't pass some new rules) the other CRJs are "grandfathered" in. The CRJ/ERJ design would apparently not pass inspectors today.

Wow. That's fascinating. So even new derivatives of the aircraft are grandfathered? I assume it's because they don't certify them as a new type entirely?



Good goes around!
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2751 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11571 times:

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 16):
So even new derivatives of the aircraft are grandfathered?

Yes. The most recent example is the 747-8. New rules say there must be exits forward and aft of the passengers. The 748 was grandfathered due to having exits only aft of passengers in the nose section.


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 11458 times:
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Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 15):

Apparently the new rules came in after the CRJ-100 was designed... And just like on the 737 (which I heard wouldn't pass some new rules) the other CRJs are "grandfathered" in. The CRJ/ERJ design would apparently not pass inspectors today.

That's very interesting as I too wondered about CR9/CRK having an optional rear door, albeit on the left side only. I don't think what you're saying is accurate since the Fokker 100s (F100 or 100) had an optional rear door in which several airlines opted for it, while it appears the majority did not.

The second door would be a very interesting and good option on a super strech, like the 739/739ER. As we all know, Airbus has placed two large emergency exit doors in front and behind the wing versus having two large forward and rear doors and the pop up window exits over the wing.
I believe 2L is not used on the A321 because of the close proximity to the engine/wing and if they are going to have utilize two doors which is done often in the EU, they always go with the forward and rear doors (jetway @ 1L and a stairway at 4L).

To keep things more efficient and the stress level low, would the optimal time to turn a 739/739ER be 60 minutes for airlines who are very efficient in turning planes around?


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9828 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 11063 times:

Quoting poLot (Reply 10):
That might be against regulations. There needs to be doors in both directions for evacuation purposes (the nose of the 747 is grandfathered in) but I'm not sure if only a door on 1 side would cut it, or if they need to include doors on both sides of the fuselage in case one is blocked.

Which FAR is that? I only know of the FARs 121.291 and appendix J that dictate exit in 90 seconds (with all the associated requirements), flight attendant stationed at all floor level doors, 50 seats per flight attendant, etc. I’ve never seen one that dictates location of exits other than the 90 second requirement. I’d wonder how the A380 got by that FAR since there is no exit at the front or rear of the upper deck.

Quoting skymiler (Reply 11):
Without the beloved L2 door boarding will be slower, but will the turn-around times be increased to compensate?

It might slow it down by a minute or two, but not much more than that. The 757 economy cabin is about 160 seats. The 739 is anticipated to be about 180 seats. It’s an additional 20 seats. Each airline calculates how long it actually takes to board an airplane. If I remember correctly the last time I saw the numbers for an airline, boarding times for 120 seats were 10 minutes, 150 seats 12 minutes, and 180 seat 14 minutes. Numbers were adjusted for winter vs summer and load factor.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1827 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10911 times:

Quoting cloudboy (Thread starter):
Does anyone know what kind of seating configuration Delta will have on their 739's? Some of these will be replacing 757s, will they be keeping the increased first class section or continue with the 4 rows of first as on other 737s?

Forgive me but which 757's would they be replacing. I see they currently have 8 different configurations of -200's and also they have the -300's. With the -200's ranging from 166 (biz elite) to 184 seats and the -300's coming in at 224 seats.


User currently offlinethreeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 709 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10819 times:

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 20):
Forgive me but which 757's would they be replacing. I see they currently have 8 different configurations of -200's and also they have the -300's. With the -200's ranging from 166 (biz elite) to 184 seats and the -300's coming in at 224 seats.

The PMNW "5500" series 752s and some of DL's original 752s which date from the late 80s are likely the first to go.

This thread should add some detail:

DL To Acquire Used 757s? (by bigbird Jun 14 2012 in Civil Aviation)#1


User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1827 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10743 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 4):
I'd expect about 20F 24Y+ and 140Y or something very close to that.
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 19):
It might slow it down by a minute or two, but not much more than that.

I'd bet they will use the same boarding times as they do for the 184 seat 752's. Since F doesn't board at the same time as Y anyways there really doesn't need to be any incremental time added just because F is the same direction out the door as Y. So I'm with you on the maybe 1-2 minutes, but quite possibly no extra time.


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2185 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10562 times:

Quoting B727FA (Reply 2):
Perhaps the best feature of the 757 is that blessed 2L door...alas.

Except when they board/deplane from 1L. This happens to me occasionally in ATL and MSP.


User currently offlinelucce From Finland, joined Jun 2011, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10523 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 18):
I believe 2L is not used on the A321 because of the close proximity to the engine/wing and if they are going to have utilize two doors which is done often in the EU, they always go with the forward and rear doors (jetway @ 1L and a stairway at 4L).

LH uses it sometimes in FRA. They have gates with dual air bridges (1L and 2L). I have de-boarded through 2L door only once though and that was in the old configuration but even the current one has plenty of room inside in front of that door versus other door areas.


25 N766UA : MD-80/MD-90 have only 1 rear door on the left side. Granted, they have the tail exit as well, but it's not across from the galley door.
26 Post contains images skymiler : In the last many flights I have been on the gate agents, understandably under pressure, tend to call the next wave hot on the heels of F, if not actu
27 cloudboy : Keep in mind that you don't have to board at the first time your zone is called. In many cases F passengers will end up boarding later - either becaus
28 FlyASAGuy2005 : MINIMUM turns for domestic flights are as follows (can be less but operationally this is the minimum to get "everything done"): 25 Minutes CR2 145 30
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