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US Airways Sees Progress Towards Merger With American  
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 21677 times:

One would think this increases the likelihood of a merger between US Air and American in the long run.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...ward-american-airlines-merger.html

Quote:
US Airways Group Inc. is making “great progress” toward a merger with AMR Corp. (AAMRQ)’s American Airlines and has won backing on Wall Street for a takeover bid, Chief Executive Officer Doug Parker said. US Airways has received “tremendous” support from bondholders and analysts for a merger with Fort Worth, Texas- based AMR, Parker said.

83 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineatnight From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 21328 times:

Well.... I think this shows that this deal is likely going forward... I only hope this brings a benefit to customers and is not another CO-UA disappointment.... I hope is more like DL-NW in the end, where the combined airline is really better than before to customers!


B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4057 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20959 times:

While I personally would like to see this happen, I would take everything Parker says with a grain of salt. Once the shareholders themselves start speaking up in support, then we can actually know the direction this is going. As of now, the only people we've heard from are the talking heads of the airlines and a couple of the labor unions (who are part of the deal, yes, but we've known their stance for a while).

User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 20752 times:

The linked article below suggests that a ruling on American's labor contract is likely on June 22, after which American wil review merger proposals by other airlines. The estimated $1.2 billion in cost savings from US/American merger is about 3% of post merger revenue of combined airlines.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ptions-after-labour-ruling-373020/


User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 20650 times:

Parker is posturing. He is making headlines trying to put pressure on the deal. No proposal has been presented to the bankruptcy court, at least to my knowledge. Until that happens I take his words with a grain of salt. He also didn't mention who might provide the extra financial backing.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7474 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 20233 times:

Quoting texan (Reply 4):
Parker is posturing.
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 2):
I would take everything Parker says with a grain of salt.

   he tends to talk out of his a$$ quite a bit.

Quoting texan (Reply 4):
No proposal has been presented to the bankruptcy court,

I highly doubt that the BK court would allow the merger to happen UNDER bankruptcy until everything within AMR and AA is figured out.

Also, I was just thinking about this- what would happen to AmEagle?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 20164 times:

Anyone remember or have links to articles with past US/DL and US/UA merger info? I am wondering if Parker was as optomistic of those deals working as he is of US/AA.


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User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 20092 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
I highly doubt that the BK court would allow the merger to happen UNDER bankruptcy until everything within AMR and AA is figured out.

US (or anyone else, for that matter) could present a case that AA's exit from Chapter 11 is flawed and not in the best interests of the shareholders. At that point, the judge could consider the competing claims and, in consultation with the creditors, decide to implement a plan that provides a better payout for the creditors. Look at the deal that happened with the L.A. Dodgers (although that could also be a special case). If US doesn't think they will be able to get the cerditors to agree with a merger, a proposal through the BK court might be their best option if this is something they truly want to pursue.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1902 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 19957 times:

Quoting atnight (Reply 1):
I only hope this brings a benefit to customers and is not another CO-UA disappointment....

You only need to look at the US/HP merger to see the result of what happens when Doug Parker takes over another airline...so expect another CO/UA type scenario.


User currently offlinePHXA340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 19630 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 8):
You only need to look at the US/HP merger to see the result of what happens when Doug Parker takes over another airline...so expect another CO/UA type scenario.

  

Still can't believe that after the HP/US merger , people still have unyeilding faith in Parker. One of the reasons that US is profitable is because their costs are lower because they don't have a merged pilot group.

Exciting times ahead ... crossing my fingers that no one loses their jobs at either airline (wishful thinking).


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7893 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 19290 times:

Not the most informed here, but I don't see why so many people bash Parker so much. I mean, I think the man has an ego and wants to merge US with anything really, and I know US is still kind of a mess (the pilot groups still being separate) but US was really, really at the brink of failure a few years ago and now it's a relatively healthy company. I think Parker is all right, and he may be what AA needs to fix them...

...or they'll all go down in flames. Hmm.

Quoting PHXA340 (Reply 9):
One of the reasons that US is profitable is because their costs are lower because they don't have a merged pilot group.

How does that make costs lower??

Quoting PHXA340 (Reply 9):
Exciting times ahead ... crossing my fingers that no one loses their jobs at either airline (wishful thinking).

I think layoffs are inevitable. Hopefully layoffs will be minimal and the combined company can actually stay afloat.



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6215 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 19144 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
Not the most informed here, but I don't see why so many people bash Parker so much. I mean, I think the man has an ego and wants to merge US with anything really, and I know US is still kind of a mess (the pilot groups still being separate) but US was really, really at the brink of failure a few years ago and now it's a relatively healthy company. I think Parker is all right, and he may be what AA needs to fix them...

...or they'll all go down in flames. Hmm.

Quoting PHXA340 (Reply 9):
One of the reasons that US is profitable is because their costs are lower because they don't have a merged pilot group.

How does that make costs lower??

Quoting PHXA340 (Reply 9):
Exciting times ahead ... crossing my fingers that no one loses their jobs at either airline (wishful thinking).

I think layoffs are inevitable. Hopefully layoffs will be minimal and the combined company can actually stay afloat.



It's called jumping on the band wagon, it's cool to bash US Airways on this website. Half of the people who go on and on negatively about this merger neither work for US or AA, they just fly AA or have some weird attachment to the company.

HPRamper very well said, at this point it is very hard to say which way the wind is blowing on this merger.

Regards,

Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1902 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18956 times:

Quoting chepos (Reply 11):
it's cool to bash US Airways on this website.

and WN...and DL...and UA...and AA...and...and...and...

GUILTY!


User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18879 times:

Quoting PHXA340 (Reply 9):
Still can't believe that after the HP/US merger , people still have unyeilding faith in Parker. One of the reasons that US is profitable is because their costs are lower because they don't have a merged pilot group.

Once again (for the 140th time), the pilot situation is completely out of Doug Parker's hands. It is an intra-union issue that is going to have to be settled in court. How could DP have forseen that the US East pilots were going to behave so immaturely?

Yes, the pilot discord does save money in wages (the US East pilots are lowest paid mainline pilots in the industry, even lower than Allegiant and Spirit) but does cost money in scheduling inefficiencies and wasted time in depositions and court hearings.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1049 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18816 times:

I personally dont see how any of these airline mergers is good for customers. It would only limit choices, increase prices and shut down hubs.

User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18773 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 14):
I personally dont see how any of these airline mergers is good for customers. It would only limit choices, increase prices and shut down hubs.

I concur but since the gov't allowed DL/NW, UA/CO and WN/FL they really couldn't say no to AA/US. They wouldn't be fair.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3332 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17819 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 14):
I personally dont see how any of these airline mergers is good for customers. It would only limit choices, increase prices and shut down hubs.

As opposed to AA collapsing entirely? I think a merger with US will be the best outcome for them, but the integration is going to be like a train wreck in slow motion and service standards will plummet.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7893 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17663 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 14):
I personally dont see how any of these airline mergers is good for customers. It would only limit choices, increase prices and shut down hubs.

As long as there is no abuse or monopolies (in most mergers, some things are given up) why should the government be involved? Companies have the right to be profitable even if it isn't always the optimal solution for customers...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17491 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
Also, I was just thinking about this- what would happen to AmEagle?

Sorry, didn't see this until now. There's no telling what would happen to Eagle. An acquiring company could decide to take it on, divest it or try another option. If it happens through the BK process, then the proposing company would have to discuss how it would deal with all the assets and liabilities of AMR. I won't even hazard a guess at what a company would propose to do in that situation!

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineNutsaboutplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 496 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 16855 times:

Quoting PHXA340 (Reply 9):
Still can't believe that after the HP/US merger , people still have unyeilding faith in Parker. One of the reasons that US is profitable is because their costs are lower because they don't have a merged pilot group.



Your statement is flawed and not in keeping with reality. People have faith in Doug Parker because 32,000 people still have jobs....5 years ago, that looked like an impossibility. Lets not forget that under Mr. Parker, the airline has executed some very key moves including the DCA slot transaction, International expansion, reorganization of the domestic network, continuous fleet renewal efforts and substantial debt pay-down which continues in 2012.

As far as your pilot statement.....DeltaMD90 said it very well. Yes, the pilots are lower paid on the EAST but that is a beast of their own making. The East pilots have simply decided not to abide by a ruling made in binding arbitration which I still don't understand....this is why they are paid lower. The airlines hands are tied and at the moment, the cost savings in wages for the east pilots somewhat covers the inefficiencies that come from having a split fleet.



American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
User currently offlineHKG212 From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2008, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15963 times:

Quoting atnight (Reply 1):
Well.... I think this shows that this deal is likely going forward

In fact, I interpret the latest media blitz from Parker to indicate exactly the opposite. Serious discussions take place in back rooms, not in the media.

Parker is clearly desparate to become the CEO of one of the big three airlines, and sees AA under Chapter 11 as his last chance. I don't know all the details but my gut tells me that this merger makes little sense except as a vehicle for Mr. Parker's burning ambition.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7474 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15950 times:

Quoting HKG212 (Reply 20):
Parker is clearly desparate to become the CEO of one of the big three airlines, and sees AA under Chapter 11 as his last chance. I don't know all the details but my gut tells me that this merger makes little sense except as a vehicle for Mr. Parker's burning ambition.

   it's a horrible match, a match made in hell. Too much Northeast overlap = cut flights and raised fees, along with Bye-bye CLT. In the westcoast, if there is consolidation at LAX it would be horrible for the combined airline, and if it is combined at PHX the airport would become overcrowded.

And not to mention the unions from both airlines -_- I know we heard AA's agree, but they have their own internal issues as does US and former HP unions.

Until US can solve the East/West issue, no merger should be allowed to happen, I think.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8491 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15795 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 21):
it's a horrible match, a match made in hell. Too much Northeast overlap = cut flights and raised fees, along with Bye-bye CLT. In the westcoast, if there is consolidation at LAX it would be horrible for the combined airline, and if it is combined at PHX the airport would become overcrowded.
(.......)

AA's northeast presence is where exactly... and bye bye CLT? One of global airlinedom's very largest hubs, one whose profitability nobody questions, will just vanish... Gotta love a.net.

Quoting Nutsaboutplanes (Reply 19):
Your statement is flawed and not in keeping with reality. People have faith in Doug Parker because 32,000 people still have jobs....5 years ago, that looked like an impossibility.

Exactly. Doug runs a pretty complicated airline, one that wouldn't even survive 1 quarter unless his team had all their ducks in a row. The naked truth is they know how to financially manage a network airline.


User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1034 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15173 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 21):
Until US can solve the East/West issue, no merger should be allowed to happen, I think.

Tell us, what exactly is there for US to solve? What can they legally do to remedy the situation with the pilots? That issue is completely out of their hands.



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7474 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15172 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 22):

AA's northeast presence is where exactly... and bye bye CLT?

JFK. Combine DCA into the mix, along with CLT, PHL, and MIA, there are too many hubs on the eastern seaboard for this US/AA to operate out of. It's a cluttered, jumbled mess.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
25 wn676 : Those are two different markets that can serve two different roles. It's cheaper and probably more efficient to continue to flow connecting traffic o
26 incitatus : I don't agree with that at all. Ultimately the pilots have to come to an agreement, but smartly Parker turned his back to this issue. US has no incen
27 kgaiflyer : I agree a combined airline would have too many hubs -- too close together, but I haven't seen much speculation of how fleet rationalization might be h
28 aeroblogger : It has made offers to sweeten the deal. The pilots still haven't agreed.
29 usflyer msp : Actually, US legally can't do anything until the seniority list issue is settled. If US did reach some sort of contract agreement with USAPA, what se
30 chepos : The pilot situation at US has been explained numerous times on this website. It's not even worth explaining anymore as people don't bother to read pr
31 JFKPurser : A compilation of analysts' and other various opinions on the AA-US merger: "I don't know anybody who's looked at it from 30,000 feet that would tell y
32 incitatus : Many of these comments make sense, but many of them are not from analysts - very misleading.
33 JFKPurser : I changed the first sentence for you, so that you are no longer misled.[Edited 2012-06-15 09:51:36]
34 ca2ohHP : Actually pre-merger US pilots would see bigger gains. Their narrowbody counterparts at HP make $20-25/block hour more.[Edited 2012-06-15 10:11:07]
35 Boeing773ER : Please tell me how AA would collapse if they would not merge with US? I'm pretty sure AA will never collapse for these reasons -They are in bankruptc
36 JFKPurser : You mean, an airline like US Airways?
37 PRAirbus : AA might be better off getting out of bankruptcy Ch. 11 as a stand-alone entity and then initiating itself a merger/acquisition once its house is in o
38 aeroblogger : Why? The AA pilots outnumber the pmUS pilots handily. And the HP guys who are tired of dealing with the USAPA will also probably join them... Any uni
39 Flighty : MIA is 650 miles south of CLT. They are not in the same region! I see no changes that would occur at _either_ hub except a _couple_ of intercontinent
40 Corinthians : I used to be a “Wall Street Analyst” and knowing analyst-speak, I take their comments with a grain of salt because it usually means they’re pus
41 aeroblogger : I'd agree with your point completely if airlines were making obscene profits. But airlines are barely making profits at all. It would be great for th
42 jfk777 : TO compare what CLT and MIA do is to be in 2 different worlds. Miami handles tons of International traffic to Latin America and the Caribean. CLT is
43 Post contains images PHX787 : That's exactly my point. You can't have 3 different sets of pilots (4, if you count the TW pilots) Operating under one name. It creates too many issu
44 chepos : AA acquiring B6 is Tom Horton's wet dream. AA acquires B6 and we would see a repeat in history, remember TWA, AirCal, RenoAir, the B6 route system wo
45 incitatus : I read somewhere an expert saying there is "90% chance the merger will happen". It seems it did not make it to your list. I suggest you add it.
46 Boeing773ER : Well, they are doing it now aren't they? But it isn't limited to just US; I'm sure if the price would be right any airline based in the United States
47 aeroblogger : Sure you can. It results in lower labor costs (which are offset by lack of flexibility). I fail to see why it is imperative to have merged pilot grou
48 izbtmnhd : If AA-B6 merge I can't help but wonder, who's left to give those slots too? WN? US? The total number of players seem to be shrinking by the minute.
49 chepos : I did say Tom Horton's wet dream was to merge with B6, meaning that's what he wants to do. Not sure why AA would be rushing to for #1 in some Caribbe
50 Boeing773ER : Well NK, WN, AC, and other international carriers would love them. I think the government would tell them how many slots they would have to allocate,
51 Post contains images flyguy89 : AA emerging as a lean, mean new airline and THEN merging with another airline would bring much more value to shareholders than a low-ball bid for the
52 HPRamper : You make it sound like AA is being picked on and can't defend itself. The "right-sizing" would not be as extensive as some make it out to be. Probabl
53 flyguy89 : Well I admit I do get agitated when a lot of people like to point to US, DL, or UA when pointing out AA's inefficiencies as if their success somehow
54 southwest737500 : CLT is not going anywhere, come on!!!
55 chepos : In the event of a merger of all the US hubs CLT is the safest (DCA is considered a focus city - not a hub- they would be safe too). Why would the airl
56 LAXdude1023 : I dont think so either. That would be throwing away a very valuble piece of the combined network. I do think CLT will be de-emphisized internationall
57 southwest737500 : Not to argue but I personally think MAD would go daily because of IB and the OW I think DUB would sta to it performs really well. I'm not saying beca
58 HPRamper : To be fair, CLT doesn't exactly have an extensive international operation to begin with. That's why I say it won't lose much - it doesn't have much t
59 flyguy89 : MAD is highly seasonal, even with the OneWorld hub feed, as the southern European traffic flows MAD serves are also highly season. DFW as is sees lar
60 LAXdude1023 : Under a merger like this, it wouldnt be a matter of what currently preforms well. Its more of a question of how CLT fits best in the new network and
61 southwest737500 : Agreed but I do see London getting a second flight and MAD stay as well as the to FRA flights because of AB Maybe AB could add a Berlin flight... Who
62 LAXdude1023 : I think CLT-LHR will be 2x daily at least in the summer and CLT-MAD will end up being seasonal but daily in the summer due to the seasonal nature of
63 Post contains links commavia : It is quite an unrealistic, and frankly ridiculous, leap to say that AA's only alternatives are an AA merger or collapse. That is highly debatable. P
64 skipness1E : London is only once daily and US left it at LGW when PHL moved to LHR.
65 EricR : If the cuts you've outlined above are directionally accurate, don't you think they would just close the hub? A 50% reduction in seats for a hub the s
66 PHX787 : Everybody seems to really undermine the O&D value of the nation's 5th or 6th (depending on source) largest city as well as a metropolis of over 4
67 Flighty : If they don't do route planning based on profitability, they are definitely not going to be very successful. It would avoid bankruptcy. Each quarter,
68 commavia : Good question. It is a relatively large population center. But it's also a relatively low-yielding market. Phoenix has tons of competition, low fares
69 HPRamper : While I do see the PHX hub being reduced in some regard as many transcon flows can just as easily be routed across DFW, there is still the West Coast
70 Post contains links EricR : Check out slides 13 & 14 from the US board presentation from last week (06/14/2012). http://www.usairways.com/en-US/aboutus/investorrelations/web
71 Post contains links kakk80 : This is a great article written 5 years ago when USAirways was trying to merge with Delta. It tells a lot about Doug Parker. If you don't want to read
72 mcg : In Chapter 11 the interests of the shareholders are irrelevant. Only the interest of the creditors and to a much lesser extent the employees matter.
73 Flighty : I agree. AA can survive alone, but I do think its management has an institutional memory of just flat out dysfunction. They used to lose money and no
74 ckfred : Of course, Parker is talking up his merger. It's no different than a car salesman talking up how good the car is. It can be pure malarkey. I did read
75 Post contains links LAXintl : Long and insightful joint interview with Doug Parker, the APFA, TWU and APA about why a AA-US merger is so compelling. http://www.apfa.org/content/vie
76 mcg : I found the interview to be rather scary. Nobody has any recognition of just how difficult and painful this merger would be.
77 Post contains images PHX787 : people, especially on here, are always undertoning the whole thing. If the DL/NW merger was tough (and I am saying it is because two hubs were cut wh
78 Flighty : Doug Parker's team is well qualified to run AA. AA's existing management team is arguably not qualified. (Edit: I don't want to inflame opinions. AA
79 incitatus : Arpey was so inept at curbing labor costs and resolving the pension issue at American.
80 PHX787 : I never said anything about AA's staff, and in fact, once they get all of their problems cleared up in BK, i think they'd be fine enough to run thems
81 jfk777 : USair flies to Tel Aviv, if they take over AA which took over TWA how does this affect TWA's old Israeli debts which AA has never paid ? This is he re
82 deltaflyertoo : While I agree that PHX is very low yielding, competitive and low corporate base, I just read an article (sorry don't have source) that stated AA has
83 STT757 : It's not speculation, it's a fact that there's an outstanding judgement that the Courts in Israel say AA owes the former TWA employees at TLV. They h
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