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Emirates To DTW In 2013?  
User currently offlinedtwmtx330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 30 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9744 times:

Lately there has been alot of buzz around the airport about Emirates starting service to DTW next year. However,i am unable to find a source to confirm this. Can anyone find a source confirming this or is it just another airline rumor?

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6075 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9738 times:
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I haven't seen anything in the press. You think something like that might pop up in the business section of the Detroit Free Press.


My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineslclaxkixkhh From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9444 times:

I wonder if DL would beat them to the punch with DTW-DXB.


I'm not anti-social. I'm just not user friendly.
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9359 times:
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This has been a persistant rumor in the press and a.net for a few years. The issue for DTW-DXB/region is that the perceived premium demand is low. ULH thrives off premium demand. Otherwise customers will fly DTW-Europe-2nd hub. As much as we all want a direct flight, it has to pay for itself.

The three major airline alliances were set up with the goal of providing 'double hubbing' to a huge fraction of the earth's population. (IIRC, *A has a goal of connecting 99% of the world's population in two stops or less.) Since the alliances are fairly far along in that strategy, EK (and other airlines) will only profit on ULH from high premium markets where time is *a lot* of money.

I see more opportunity for EK to more Southern hubs in the Americas. e.g., fly to MIA or MEX (have the bilaterals been approved? They weren't last I checked). Then again, perhaps SEA is stealing enough traffic from YVR to prove that the 'cross boarder traffic' strategy works? I don't know. I suspect the answer is no and that will push EK to new routes where they can clearly cut the transit time.

Or utilize aircraft to Europe/Asia where the turn times also allow for a regional connection.

However, if EK is to expand to DTW, 2013 or 2014 would be a good time for them. Why? New 77Ws (higher MTOW) and soon the new A388s with the wing twist and engine PIP. Even if a new route won't fill an A388, having ULH 77Ws pulled off existing routes will free up ULH 77Ws.

Quoting slclaxkixkhh (Reply 2):
I wonder if DL would beat them to the punch with DTW-DXB.

Does DTL have a pair of availablve 77Ls? IMHO, wouldn't DL do better connecting through their regional partner Sandia? DXB is an unusually good Wayport (mostly connecting traffic), but a revenue sharing agreement would be a better deal. (Unless the connecting partner is *very* weak.)

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinetimf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 969 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9231 times:
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The airport has been trying to attract non-stop service to the Middle East for the past few months, with Emirates as one of the top targets. I haven't heard any new news to indicate they are close to finding a carrier to operate the service. There is a petition available that is up to about 3,000 signatures.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/669/4...s-demand-detroit-to-dubai-service/


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9208 times:
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Quoting timf (Reply 4):
The airport has been trying to attract non-stop service to the Middle East for the past few months, with Emirates as one of the top targets.

I'm curious how interested EK is? With the A380 wing crack issue, their growth was stunted in 2012. However, once they get through that issue, there will be a jump in EK capacity...   

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineEI912 From Ireland, joined May 2012, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9131 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):
With the A380 wing crack issue, their growth was stunted in 2012.


GIG, EZE, DUB, SEA, DFW, HRE, LUN, SGN all started so far this year, with 2nd MAD & GLA, BCN, LIS, IAD and probably more to come! If this is stunted growth, I can't wait for 2013!


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24868 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9099 times:

Quoting timf (Reply 4):
The airport has been trying to attract non-stop service to the Middle East for the past few months

Assume you mean "additional" non-stop service. RJ operates twice-weekly nonstop to AMM.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9053 times:
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Quoting EI912 (Reply 6):
If this is stunted growth, I can't wait for 2013!

Yep!    But do recall they have reduced IAH, LAX, and CPT to free up aircraft for that route expansion. EK has six aircraft out of service due to the crack issue. It takes 1 aircraft for a European route (sometimes a little less with a regional tag on route), 2.5 aircraft per daily to North America, up to 4 for the Australia to New Zealand routes, and then multiple trips per day for regional.

So without the wing crack issue, LAX and CPT wouldn't have been reduced and we would have seen one (or more, length dependant) additional new routes.   

While EK is still profitable, the wing crack issue is also costing EK dearly. As station expansion is more expensive than adding frequencies to existing routes, I believe that is another reason for fewer destinations by EK in 2012.

Ok, fewer is very relative.   

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7527 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9008 times:

DTW Wants To Get DL Or EK Service To DXB (by PSU.DTW.SCE Apr 23 2012 in Civil Aviation)

http://www.freep.com/article/2012042...odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8321 times:

Quoting dtwmtx330 (Thread starter):
Lately there has been alot of buzz around the airport about Emirates starting service to DTW next year. However,i am unable to find a source to confirm this. Can anyone find a source confirming this or is it just another airline rumor?

I worked at DTW back in 2002 and the rumor was going around back then.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 3):
This has been a persistant rumor in the press and a.net for a few years. The issue for DTW-DXB/region is that the perceived premium demand is low. ULH thrives off premium demand. Otherwise customers will fly DTW-Europe-2nd hub. As much as we all want a direct flight, it has to pay for itself.

What people don't realize again when - yes Detroit has the largest Middle Eastern population in the U.S., but the majority of the ethnicities of the Middle Eastern people are Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, Palestinean, and Lebonese - all of which are banned from having direct service to the U.S. Flying to Dubai to get to Beruit, Tehran etc - think of the other way around - would be like flying from Mid East to Los Angeles to get back to Detroit - going a couple thousand miles out of the way to get to your destination. It makes more sense for people flying from DTW to Mid East to go through Europe because it is on the way. I'm surprised there isn't more capacity on the DTW to Europe routes - like Air France using 747s and LH using an A340-600 or something.


User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7527 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8132 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 10):

What people don't realize again when - yes Detroit has the largest Middle Eastern population in the U.S., but the majority of the ethnicities of the Middle Eastern people are Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, Palestinean, and Lebonese - all of which are banned from having direct service to the U.S. Flying to Dubai to get to Beruit, Tehran etc - think of the other way around - would be like flying from Mid East to Los Angeles to get back to Detroit - going a couple thousand miles out of the way to get to your destination. It makes more sense for people flying from DTW to Mid East to go through Europe because it is on the way. I'm surprised there isn't more capacity on the DTW to Europe routes - like Air France using 747s and LH using an A340-600 or something.

While Metro Detroit has one of the largest Middle Eastern populations in the United States, of the ethnicities you mention, I always question really how much demand does it really generate? Is there really than much VFR traffic between said countries? The majority of the population here by and large doesn't appear to have the disposable income to be flying their familes back and forth very often.

Much of this traffic as said isn't schedule sensitive. There's ample ways to get there currently over AMS, CDG, FRA and AMM.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7978 times:
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Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 10):
I'm surprised there isn't more capacity on the DTW to Europe routes - like Air France using 747s and LH using an A340-600 or something.

While more direct service will stimulate demand, if there isn't enough demand for high gauge connecting traffic, it implies other destinations will have service first. Unless there is enough demand being met by transfers at JFK/EWR or other domestic airports.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7877 times:

If EK were to start DTW, DL's best competitive response would be to continue and deepen relations with Saudia and Middle East Airlines. Nothing more, nothing less.
Anything else AF/KL can already do for DL via AMS/CDG, mostly...



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5925 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 11):
The majority of the population here by and large doesn't appear to have the disposable income to be flying their familes back and forth very often.

Well there are also the issues with the State Dept of flying to some of those countries. I don't think too many Syrian Americans would like to fly to Syria right now in its current state. There would be issues with Americans flying to and from Iran, since our relations aren't at the greatest right now. Palestinean Americans would probably have to fly through Tel Aviv Israel. Remember when everyone thought that the Gulf War in 2003 was going to be really quick, they would remove Saddam and Iraq would be a model of democracy within a couple years that Northwest was actually planning flights between DTW and Baghdad.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 13):
If EK were to start DTW, DL's best competitive response would be to continue and deepen relations with Saudia and Middle East Airlines. Nothing more, nothing less.
Anything else AF/KL can already do for DL via AMS/CDG, mostly...

I think Middle East Airlines is still banned from the U.S. for security and safety issues. I think by now if there were somewhat of an open skies agreement and everything cleared with Lebanon we would have seen MEA A330s at DTW by now


User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 723 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5459 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 10):
What people don't realize again when - yes Detroit has the largest Middle Eastern population in the U.S., but the majority of the ethnicities of the Middle Eastern people are Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, Palestinean, and Lebonese - all of which are banned from having direct service to the U.S. Flying to Dubai to get to Beruit, Tehran etc - think of the other way around - would be like flying from Mid East to Los Angeles to get back to Detroit - going a couple thousand miles out of the way to get to your destination. It makes more sense for people flying from DTW to Mid East to go through Europe because it is on the way. I'm surprised there isn't more capacity on the DTW to Europe routes - like Air France using 747s and LH using an A340-600 or something.

This has been discussed many, many times in previous threads. For the same reason, if any airline is there to benefit to/from this population, it is TK. They are naturally placed between Europe and the Levant ... with very good frequencies to Iraq (Baghdad, Basra, Suleymaniah, Erbil, Mosul, Najaf), Syria (Damascus, Aleppo), Lebanon (Beirut), Iran (Tehran, Tabriz, Mashad, Shiraz), and Jordan (Amman).

Also, DTW is within easy A332/A333 ranges from IST, which TK has quite a few.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4859 times:
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Quoting ASA (Reply 15):
if any airline is there to benefit to/from this population, it is TK.

   Now if IST will just figure out a way to expand the airport...

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
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