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SEA...CDG/DXB/AMS/FRA/NRT  
User currently offlinealexinwa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1146 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10983 times:

So,I havent been in SEA in a while, spending more time in the PDX area.

How is EK doing on SEA-DXB?
DL on CDG?
LH on FRA?
DL on AMS?

Ive head FI is doing wonderful to Iceland?

NH coming into the SEA-NRT market, haven't seen any plans by UA to drop it. In fact you can book UA to NRT from SEA well into next year.

I heard rumors of UA adding flights out of SEA. Basically in an attempt to stop the DL march. HKG would be logical with the 787?

Ideas? Facts? Comments?


You mad Bro???
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 10666 times:

Quoting alexinwa (Thread starter):
How is EK doing on SEA-DXB?

Not sure on passenger loads but I know they're doing very well with cargo. Didn't start out that way, but nowadays they're full up most of the time.

Quoting alexinwa (Thread starter):
Ive head FI is doing wonderful to Iceland?

That's the word I've gotten from my friends at the Port of Seattle too.


User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10406 times:

Quoting ER757 (Reply 1):
That's the word I've gotten from my friends at the Port of Seattle too.

Would they know the yield though? I guess just loadfactor, which doesnt mean anything. Only Ryanair can make a profit with a 100% loadfactor with free tickets.  



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineANA787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10325 times:

Quoting alexinwa (Thread starter):
NH coming into the SEA-NRT market, haven't seen any plans by UA to drop it. In fact you can book UA to NRT from SEA well into next year.

Yields are going to suffer on SEA-NRT with TWO star alliance carriers. UA SEA-NRT is toast IMO. The 777 would be more profitable elsewhere.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7210 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9957 times:

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 3):
UA SEA-NRT is toast IMO. The 777 would be more profitable elsewhere.

   They might be able to work a SEA-PVG flight with the 777 or if all else fails, a UA 787 (or China Eastern   )



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2995 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9343 times:

I had heard that the AF SEA-CDG flight was also doing beautifully. Is that correct? Just because the joint-venture partners decided to have DL metal flying the flight (and not discontinuing it) doesn't necessarily tell me otherwise, as some have speculated.

I flew the AF SEA flight once and it was the best coach product I have ever been one - period! But I'll take a DL 763 anytime over not having the flight at all.

So what's next internationally out of SEA? HKG? PVG? Another LHR flight (VS or DL)? MEX on AS? GDL on AS?


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9508 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9065 times:

I think the DL 767 destinations are most at risk other than UA SEA-NRT. KIX, PEK and CDG are likely the most at risk being that they cannot be downsized. PEK has competition against Hainan and I don't think Hainan is completely profit focused as SEA is their only US destination, so I think they would keep the route even if it is loss making. KIX and CDG are both secondary to NRT and AMS for connecting feed and rely on O/D.

As for new service, CX is shrinking its US presence, so I don't think they are a possibility to HKG. DL to PVG may be a possibility if PEK is doing well.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2995 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8446 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):
I think the DL 767 destinations are most at risk other than UA SEA-NRT. KIX, PEK and CDG are likely the most at risk being that they cannot be downsized.

Who says the DL 767 destinations are at risk. Maybe CDG, KIX and PEK are doing well. Like I said, just because AF turned over the SEA flight to their joint-venture partner doesn't tell me that CDG isn't doing well or is at risk. DL and AF (and KL) sometimes shift capacity to each other.

I can certainly see the UA NRT flight going if/when (probably when) one of the AA/JL joint-venture partners start SEA-NRT. My guess is that will be on JL metal (or more likely JL composites if you know what I equipment I'm referring to).


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9508 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8410 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):

Who says the DL 767 destinations are at risk. Maybe CDG, KIX and PEK are doing well. Like I said, just because AF turned over the SEA flight to their joint-venture partner doesn't tell me that CDG isn't doing well or is at risk. DL and AF (and KL) sometimes shift capacity to each other.

Just based on the fact that they can't go down in capacity. The 767 is already the smallest airplane capable of flying 10 hour routes. DL's AMS and NRT both have the larger A330s and in peak season go beyond daily.

Asiana and Korean do not serve SEA daily, so it is always possible that one of the two of them could pull out.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8275 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5):

NWA flew SEA-LHR for a short time. But DL never picked it up. It was the same time AF flew LAX-LHR


User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8060 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5):
I had heard that the AF SEA-CDG flight was also doing beautifully. Is that correct?

Yes, that is the story as far as I ever heard. I know several folks who were frequent SEA/CDG travelers and they were quite shocked that AF ceded the route to DL. Every one of them preferred the AF product to DL's.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
Quoting ER757 (Reply 1):
That's the word I've gotten from my friends at the Port of Seattle too.

Would they know the yield though? I guess just loadfactor, which doesnt mean anything.

True enough - no idea what the yields are. I know there's a fair amount of connecting traffic beyond KEF, definitely not all O&D


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7949 times:
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Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 8):

I doubt you will see KE or OZ leaving SEA anytime soon. There is a very large Korean population near SEA. Although, KE reducea to an A330 during the winter.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7835 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5):
MEX on AS?

This one? Just maybe.......

Did either AM of MX once have a MEX-SEA nonstop? I seem to keep thinking that there once was this n/s.

 


User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 847 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7610 times:
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Quoting ER757 (Reply 1):
Quoting alexinwa (Thread starter):
How is EK doing on SEA-DXB?

Not sure on passenger loads but I know they're doing very well with cargo. Didn't start out that way, but nowadays they're full up most of the time.


I'm fairly amazed at the amount of feed we have had on AS SJC-SEA for the EK DXB flight. We've had quite a few folks connecting onwards to the Indian Subcontinent. Especially the past few Saturdays...around 25-30 passengers on average. Not too bad considering EK service just up the road out of SFO.

Tom AS SJC



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7331 times:
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Quoting point2point (Reply 13):

Depending on when. Most recently, AM. 20 or so years ago, MX.


User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 691 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7322 times:

I would think with all the tech firms and overall wealth population around seatle that these flights are probably doing alright.

User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7295 times:

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 14):

This could be a negative sign. EK may be attempting to fill their SEA flights by offering Bay Area residents lower connecting fares via SEA. This may be a good option for NorCal passengers seeking lower fares versus the N/S route from SFO, but it definitely hurts yields on the SEA flight.


User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 847 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7138 times:
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Quoting EricR (Reply 17):
This could be a negative sign. EK may be attempting to fill their SEA flights by offering Bay Area residents lower connecting fares via SEA. This may be a good option for NorCal passengers seeking lower fares versus the N/S route from SFO, but it definitely hurts yields on the SEA flight


A few passengers did mention that they could not get seats on the SFO-DXB flight. But yes, I do know that because of the recent AS-EK agreement, fares have been lower through SEA.

Tom SJC



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2176 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6981 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):
KIX and CDG are both secondary to NRT and AMS for connecting feed and rely on O/D.

Connection options in CDG are at least as many -if not more- than in AMS. I do not get your point at all.

Quoting ER757 (Reply 11):
I know there's a fair amount of connecting traffic beyond KEF, definitely not all O&D

This flight puts all Scandinavian capitals, and other N European cities two flights away from SEA, without connecting in the US and having to pick up bags etc... Note, this can also be done through AMS or CDG or FRA, but it adds choice and -probably- shortens flight times, and KEF is a fantastic airport to connect through.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 927 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6803 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
Did either AM of MX once have a MEX-SEA nonstop? I seem to keep thinking that there once was this n/s.

AM flew n/s SEA-MEX for about year...ending service about two years ago. I'd love to see AS give it a try but just don't think there's enough of a market to make it worthwhile.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9508 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6211 times:

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 19):

Connection options in CDG are at least as many -if not more- than in AMS. I do not get your point at all.

DL goes up to 12 weekly flights in the summer on SEA-AMS. It's a bigger and/or more entrenched market than CDG is.

Quoting ER757 (Reply 11):

Yes, that is the story as far as I ever heard. I know several folks who were frequent SEA/CDG travelers and they were quite shocked that AF ceded the route to DL. Every one of them preferred the AF product to DL's.

It doesn't surprise me that many would see AF to DL as a product downgrade going from the more comfortable AF cabin. Although when the SEA-CDG route starts reliably getting the flat seat product, opinions might change.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3123 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5119 times:

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 3):
Yields are going to suffer on SEA-NRT with TWO star alliance carriers. UA SEA-NRT is toast IMO. The 777 would be more profitable elsewhere

Star A is not that big here in the NW, AS flier base is the biggest target audience and they fly DL or AA when AS is not an option for their flights. As AA has such a limited presence here in the Northwest, Delta will win out for overseas trips. It would be absolutely a ridiculous move for UA to start trying to take on DL head to head from SEA. My guess the UA 777 flying NRT-SEA now will be eliminated after NH starts up.

Quoting ER757 (Reply 11):
Yes, that is the story as far as I ever heard. I know several folks who were frequent SEA/CDG travelers and they were quite shocked that AF ceded the route to DL. Every one of them preferred the AF product to DL's

Maybe better service, but the masses of loyal AS fliers will want to be flying DL for their AS miles. Most that travel with any frequency ask for AS first, if not then DL. It makes sense DL to be flying SEA-CDG.



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4934 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 21):
DL goes up to 12 weekly flights in the summer on SEA-AMS.

The current DL timetable even shows 13, a mix of 763's and 333's. Not bad. On the other hand, KL/MP will end its weekly MD11F service to SEA this month after 20 years.


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4669 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 17):
This could be a negative sign. EK may be attempting to fill their SEA flights by offering Bay Area

The SFO-DXB is packed. IMHO is a matter of time, after the they are on property, till the A380 is on the SFO route.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4252 times:
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Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 20):
AM flew n/s SEA-MEX for about year...ending service about two years ago. I'd love to see AS give it a try but just don't think there's enough of a market to make it worthwhile.

I think AS would be more successful at SEA-MEX with all of the possible connection traffic. AM did not have any real codeshare through SEA which made it primarily O/D. But I'm sure the flight through LAX is doing pretty well on its own.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 22):
It would be absolutely a ridiculous move for UA to start trying to take on DL head to head from SEA. My guess the UA 777 flying NRT-SEA now will be eliminated after NH starts up.

UA taking out their SEA-NRT service as well as the Skywest ops wouldn't surprise me at all.

NH is starting NRT-SEA-NRT with a 777-300ER. Remember, they are coming into SEA during the peak travel season (and of course baseball season) here in Seattle. So it makes sense that NH would come into SEA will their largest aircraft. NH could have easily announced new service with just 777-200ER or 767-300ER aircraft. I can see the Dreamliner service being seasonal rather than permanent...based on the Seattle travel season.


25 wedgetail737 : BTW, does anyone know how DE is doing on the SEA-FRA route? I noticed this summer, they went to 3X weekly 763's on the route. They only flew 2X weekly
26 ER757 : Does the A-380 have the legs to do DXB/SFO non-stop? If not, then it stands to reason that there will continue to be a fair number of folks doing the
27 as739x : The new batch with a higher TOW will. And the A380 has been dicussed for SFO.
28 Viscount724 : But, given the choice, would you prefer to connect at AMS or CDG? I don't know anyone who would answer CDG.
29 BoeingGuy : Everyone keeps saying this. I've connected at CVG twice and had no problems at all. I don't understand what the big deal is. It was at least as good
30 yvphx : I was at SEA a couple weeks ago, and traveled onto the south satellite just at the EK was boarding. It was booked to 110 on a 772. Take it for that it
31 panamair : To be fair, CDG has improved the transfer process over the years (and will get better once AF consolidates even more operations in fewer terminals/sa
32 Viscount724 : It's the design of CDG with multiple terminals that aren't effectively connected to facilitate connections. AMS was designed from the beginning to ma
33 dinker225 : I flew SEA-DXB roundtrip. On the way there on a Sunday was roughly 70% load in economy. Coming back on a Wednesday all classes were 100%. I was shocke
34 Gunsontheroof : I'm going to be surprised if UA is still on the route when winter season rolls around again. Heck, I'd be surprised if UA and NH haven't already reac
35 AS739BSI : And based off the OAG thread, others have chosen to travel elsewhere with DL reducing it to 6x weekly in the Fall.
36 BoeingGuy : Sorry to disappoint you, but the AF flight was also 6x weekly during the off-season. That tells me absolutely nothing except that the flight is still
37 Gunsontheroof : But the SEA-CDG flight with AF was operated with an A332 or (occassionally) A343. I saw both many times, never saw a 777 on the route. DL will do jus
38 AS739BSI : Misunderstanding, I thought the OAG showed the changes year over year, not in comparison to what was for sale.[Edited 2012-06-19 16:44:03]
39 BA : AF was actually 5x weekly during the winter and this year they reduced service to 4x weekly between mid-January to mid-February.
40 BoeingGuy : I know. I was just making a general statement that it isn't necessarily true that AF will always be better than DL to CDG. If I had the choice of an
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