DAL763ER From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2008, 404 posts, RR: 0 Posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16923 times:
I was in SFO last week for Apple's World Wide Developer Conference. I flew UA LHR-LAX-SFO, SFO-EWR-LHR.
On the way there, of course it was a pmUA crew. On the way back, both flights were with ex-Continental crew. The difference in service was huge. The United crew were always smiling, checking if people need anything, very kind folks. The ex-Continental ones were very cold, doing the bare minimum and plainly asking "Do you want to eat?", which seems rather cold and their tone was rude.
Is/was there really such a huge difference in UA/CO service even before the merger?
Where aviation is not the side show, it's the main show!!!
rwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3017 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16895 times:
Completely subjective, of course, but I always had better experiences with UA before the merger. Was never a CO fan, with bad experiences every time. But, I am sure that there are others with the opposite experience.
AWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1420 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16870 times:
Quoting DAL763ER (Thread starter): The ex-Continental ones were very cold, doing the bare minimum and plainly asking "Do you want to eat?", which seems rather cold and their tone was rude.
Because they were dragged down to UA's standards after the merger?
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4277 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16823 times:
Before the merger, I always felt that CO crews were more likely to go the extra mile than UA crews. Since the merger, it's the other way around. There seems to be really poor morale on the CO side at this point, while the merger raised sUA's game in some ways.
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
CODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2167 posts, RR: 8 Reply 4, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16818 times:
Across the board, I don't think any workgroup is very happy right now. Management is about as cold as ice and Jeff has all the charm and warmth of a used car salesman. Morale is as low as I've ever seen and distrust of management is at an all-time high.
AADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1836 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16797 times:
Some of it may be the EWR based crew. They may have a New York attitude while the PMUA crew were probably more laid back Californians. Alternatively, some see the New York attitude as a cut to the chase, direct way of dealing with things, while Californians are completely phony. Did you not get something substantive on either flight?
thomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3723 posts, RR: 25 Reply 7, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16745 times:
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 6): Some of it may be the EWR based crew. They may have a New York attitude while the PMUA crew were probably more laid back Californians. Alternatively, some see the New York attitude as a cut to the chase, direct way of dealing with things, while Californians are completely phony. Did you not get something substantive on either flight?
Now had he transited IAH, I wonder what his impressions might have been.
AWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1420 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16717 times:
Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 7): Now had he transited IAH, I wonder what his impressions might have been.
This...
Never have had a problem with any CO/UA crew in IAH...
CO777DAL From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 476 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16598 times:
Quoting rwsea (Reply 1):
Completely subjective, of course, but I always had better experiences with UA before the merger. Was never a CO fan, with bad experiences every time. But, I am sure that there are others with the opposite experience.
Count me in the boat as having the opposite experience. I have notice CO people are not happy campers. What it boils down to is management greatly under estimated how different these two airlines are culture wise. The only thing the CO and UA had in common is that they were both airlines. Even JS himself said they underestimated people ability to accept change. The cultural difference are going to plague UA for a long time to come and there is very little current management will be able to do to fix it. This merger was one of those things that look great on paper, but is a whole different story when actually implemented. UA customers and crew and CO customers and crew seem to be in disagreement about almost everything.
What even more amazing is that it is supposed to be one airline, but sCO is still operating as CO and sUA is slowly making the changes new UA want. CO still changes for liquor in Y on all flights, will not give you free snack boxes in first, still do meal order front to back regardless of status, oh and thank you for flying Continental crew on top of keeping all the other CO procedures too.
I should've flown with someone else or gone by car cause United breaks guitars.
aviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1453 posts, RR: 16 Reply 11, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16446 times:
Before the merger, I have - without exception - experienced excellent service onboard Continental Airlines. They were always cheerful, they served with a spirit that was positively infectious and they were proud of their airline.
On the contrary, it was the United Airlines crew who were cold and mechanical ... one could not even use the word "serve" as that was perhaps considered demeaning ... or at least, that was the impression I got.
If indeed today's situation as shared by the original post is reversed ... I can only put it down to the CO crew becoming disillusioned, disenchanted, disengaged and demoralised. If it is any comfort to the ex-CO crew, I hope they know that their excellence and their amazing service has been recognised and remembered by the passengers - yes, even after the merger.
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8751 posts, RR: 52 Reply 12, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16451 times:
You likely ended up with crews from three bases, so it is likely more a result of that and inconsistencies overall. It’s hard to lump that as one airline or the other being better or worse for service.
LHR-LAX most likely was a LHR based crew. The international domicile crews typically have relatively high satisfaction numbers whether they be LHR, FRA, NRT etc.
LAX-SFO could be any crew.
The PMCO crews were likely EWR based.
I think it is really hard to judge a US based on a few flights. They have over 10,000 flight attendants and ground staff. US airlines don’t hold standards anywhere near as tight as an airline like Emirates or Singapore do.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
JAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1194 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16428 times:
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 4): Things are not so good at New UA.
I am in the midst of a business trip to Massachusetts. I chose to fly UA because I've always had good experience with CO in the past. Competent, business-like and got me where I needed to go. Then I flew last Thursday ....
Transferring in SFO, I, and several other customers, learned (only after boarding the plane) that UA had double booked a number of seats. The plane was packed. The flight attendants were in an uproar - mostly over the ground crew who took a very relaxed view of the situation. It took nearly an hour for someone to decide that those in the aisle just needed to sit where ever we could find a spot - some got booted. Then we waited another eternity because the plane had not been catered. The pilot refused to leave on an estimated 6 hour flight (due to weather issues) without some food and drinks. Our flight arrived into Boston sometime between 1:30 - 2:00 a.m.
To their credit, the flight attendants did everything they could - it was a miserable situation for them as well. I just couldn't understand why the gate agents seemed so distant.
In any event, I decided I will avoid UA until they figure out their reservation system and logistics. I get the sense they are overwhelmed.
nws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 781 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16383 times:
As a sCO employee, I will say that morale among our crews was headed down before the merger with UA. However, the merger and its related problems has made it worse. As a FA we've been given very little direction in how to alter service to be more consistent with a common new UA procedure.
IAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4723 posts, RR: 25 Reply 15, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 16225 times:
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 4): Across the board, I don't think any workgroup is very happy right now. Management is about as cold as ice and Jeff has all the charm and warmth of a used car salesman. Morale is as low as I've ever seen and distrust of management is at an all-time high.
Certainly is like the 80's only this guy has a better suit than the "L" word.
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 6): Some of it may be the EWR based crew.
A few years back I would agree with you, not so sure that holds true anymore.
Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 10): CO still changes for liquor in Y on all flights, will not give you free snack boxes in first,
Hell I have gotten snack boxes from both CO, UA crews as well SkyWest in first.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
tharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1778 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 16073 times:
Are sample sizes of two really enough observation to justify starting a discussion topic on here?
joeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 873 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16022 times:
Recent experiences...
PMua..LAX-NRT....crew was awesome!!! Best crew I've ever seen on a US airline, hands down. They were fairly young.
PMua...PVG-ORD....crew was awful, rude, did bear minimum, just very cold in general. Everytime I said "Thanks or Thank you", quite loud and very polite and never once did I hear anything back like "you're welcome", and this was 3 different flight attendants. btw, this crew was very old.
I can't judge PMco crews over an ocean, never done that.
RDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1063 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16018 times:
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 4): Across the board, I don't think any work-group is very happy right now. Management is about as cold as ice and Jeff has all the charm and warmth of a used car salesman. Morale is as low as I've ever seen and distrust of management is at an all-time high.
Things are not so good at New UA.
I don't have the impression that Management is cold as ice at all. Can you give some explanations? There is a lot of rhetoric around this and very little real things to complain about. There seems to be a huge resistance to change in some groups, whereas we in management have no choice but to adapt or move on. And guess what? Once you change, it's really not that bad!
This merger has made all of our lives significantly more complicated, probably by a factor of 3 for me personally. But we persevere!
CODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2167 posts, RR: 8 Reply 19, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 15802 times:
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 18):
I don't have the impression that Management is cold as ice at all. Can you give some explanations? There is a lot of rhetoric around this and very little real things to complain about. There seems to be a huge resistance to change in some groups, whereas we in management have no choice but to adapt or move on. And guess what? Once you change, it's really not that bad!
This merger has made all of our lives significantly more complicated, probably by a factor of 3 for me personally. But we persevere!
So I vented a bit with a previous version of this post and didn't really intend to. I can distill my rant into a few points:
- The disconnect between management's message and their actions
- Terrible employee morale
- Restrictions on employees to find common-sense solutions to customer issues (fear of audit)
- An outright lack of communication to customers, especially Premier members (lack of responsiveness)
- The general sense that loyalty no longer matters
- Austerity, leading to a very cheap-feeling product
I have no doubt that the company can overcome these obstacles, but I get the feeling that so many are self-inflicted and the problems only grow deeper as time goes on. I just don't see the airline moving in the right direction yet.
laca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3749 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 15670 times:
I always felt CO had the upper hand when it came to being a much more customer focused airline in regards to service and always saw ground and flight crews going the extra mile.
It seems with everything being said now, the pre and post-merger management teams didn't consider how merging the two different airlines and the cultures that come with that would connect and function. Sadly, they neglected the most important part, those who are paying their wages, the customer.
They need to hire someone to intervene and bring these groups together so they can communicate and work affectively, responsibly. professionally, and remember whey they are there, the customer~passenger in this case.
maxamuus From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 15595 times:
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 4): Across the board, I don't think any workgroup is very happy right now. Management is about as cold as ice and Jeff has all the charm and warmth of a used car salesman. Morale is as low as I've ever seen and distrust of management is at an all-time high.
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 19): Bottom line, the people of this company and its customers deserve better.
If you don't work for UA, you sure have a lot of insight into the "inner workings" of the company.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16261 posts, RR: 52 Reply 23, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15414 times:
One cannot travel one segment and then have the credibility to condem thousands of people working thousands of daily flights. It's one thing if your a million mile frequent travel on UA and CO, it's another to travel one segment and to feel emboldened to condem a workforce of thousands.
kpitrrat From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 135 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15388 times:
aviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1453 posts, RR: 16 Reply 25, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15745 times:
Just for the record, my impressions (in Reply 11) were based on more than 30 sectors on each of the two carriers. In all of these CO was without exception the one with the excellent crew members. The difference was even more stark when I was booked to fly CO all the way from Singapore to Quito via Tokyo-Narita and Houston.
The SIN-NRT sector was operated by UA ... and everything from the aircraft cabin and breakfast to service delivery was at best described at pathetic. Everything flipped to the opposite side as soon as I boarded the Continental B772ER at Narita Airport ... from here on, everything from the aircraft cabin to the meals and especially crew service delivery was absolutely superb! Even in transit at Houston, the ground staff members were superb in providing guidance and direction to those in transit. My flight on a CO B737-700 was similarly wonderful ... and for the record, service and equipment on my return to Singapore mirrored this.
COflyerBOS From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 289 posts, RR: 0 Reply 26, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 15500 times:
In fairness, pmCO was heading the wrong way by the time the merger happened. I blame that mostly on the fact that Smisek was never very popular with the rank and file. Then, when the terms of the "merger" were announced and the headquarters left from Houston to Chicago, things radically turned. The once always chipper Houston-based folks were no longer happy. I've heard firsthand from 4 friends who work for the airline that they all felt like the were sold down the river so that Smisek could make a buck at their expense. 2 quit (they were HQ employees) because they didn't want to move to Chicago. The other 2 are hanging in there but miserable.
The bad news for us consumers? If AA and US merge, we're down to just a big 3 that will essentially be "too big" to fail. I imagine service levels are only going to continue to drop with the lack of competition. I never thought I'd fly WN regularly, but my last 3 domestic trips with them have been much more pleasant than my recent UA flights. I might be moving to HOU after 21 years of brand loyalty to CO.
I know this thread is going to be locked in 15 minutes, but here goes...
Based out of NY, I fly about 200k with pmCO any given year. Like it had already been said previously, the moral has been going down with CO for some time before the merger. Speaking with the cabin crews regularly, anticipation of the merger didn't bring too much hope to everyone. I've flown the EWR-China legs a total of 16 times in the past 6 months. Even though I'm a diehard pmCO fan, theres a huge fluctuation in quality of service.
I do mostly travel in BusinessFirst, but the 2 legs I did in Y have produced radically different results. One flight was beyond amazing. Wonderful crew, wonderful flight. The other was totally opposite. A certain infamus F/A was ripping through passengers, to the point of publicly humiliating them. I was bulkhead and the girl next to me was GS and she was upgraded, and a Chinese woman came and sat next to me. She was nice, spoke good english and I didn't think much of it. The FA came over and very loudly told her she couldn't sit here, that it wasn't her seat. She responded in Chinese (even though she spoke english) and he began to raise his voice saying that he knew she spoke english, that she better move. He went to get a Chinese speaking FA who had her move, and when she got up she mumbled something in English and he responded with "yeah I'm not dumb lady, don't try to trick me again because you know I will not accept it". About 15 minutes later a couple was taking pictures and he ran up to them and started ranting that they couldn't take pictures of the crew, that it was againts FAR's. He actually went through their camera and deleted the pictures of the crew. Part of me loves him for keeping the peace on those long haul China flights, but he really didnt need to embarrass them like that.
My other legs in BF have been a split, either marginal or really really good. There was only 1 BF flight I would have classified the FA as being rude, I asked if he may possibly know of anyone who would have a MacBook charger I could borow for 30 minutes and he lent me his. 20 minutes later he came to my seat and nastly said "you're going to have to hand that back over to me now" and stormed off, making me wrap it up, get up and carry it to him. It was really kind of him to let me borrow it, but being BF he could have asked for it back differently.
Don't even get me started on CO vs. UA 1k hotline. I can INSTANTLY tell if they're UA or CO and I'll hang up and call until I get a CO. UA reps have never been ANY help to me, and a bunch of situations when I called back for a CO rep, they helped me in half the time it took the UA rep to repeat "no I cant do that". CO are way more likely to go out of their way to help you and take care of you.... (IMHO)
blueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3126 posts, RR: 1 Reply 28, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 15378 times:
The one international flight I use more than any other was one of the first to switch from pmCO to pmUA crew. It was a massive let-down in terms of both hard and soft products. For reasons that are obvious if you know which flight it is, it's going quite senior at UA and, at the risk of being accused of senioritis, the cabin crew are generally some of the laziest I have encountered in any premium cabin on any carrier bar none.
Beyond that particular subset of individuals, I think I have transited enough through DEN and ORD to conclude that the pmCO crew seem somewhat demoralized while the pmUA crew seem to be very proud of the new UA, sometimes in a rub-it-in-your-face kinda way. Service on pmCO generally isn't as good as it used to be, more impersonal, more by-the-book than ever, and despite their better mood, pmUA isn't that different, although I can't tell whether that is an improvement or not for them.
As far as common service level, I think its implementation is too recent to write more than it isn't there yet.
On the ground, irrespective of whichever side of the family they come from in this so far not-so-auspicious marriage, everyone seems hugely frustrated. I have seen the atmosphere go down drastically in IAH and EWR (yes, EWR can get worse, it has), and colleagues based in DC tell me the similar attitude at IAD is new to them as well.
From the tidbits I hear, I can only imagine it is due to the apparent lack of training that preceded the ground merger, where each employee knows what doesn't work anymore, but may not have had sufficient time and training to learn what processes replace the ones they were used to.
Beyond that, many changes were apparently not communicated well to customers and/or staff and it isn't rare to hear a conversation between an elite and an employee, each with their own understanding of some new rule, each convinced the other would realize their mistake if they'd only listen for a minute. Customer or employee, you can hear only so many times a day you're wrong even though you know you're absolutely right before you decide it isn't worth listening anymore.
This being said, I think the situation would vastly improve if more passengers realized that they may indeed know some rules quite well, and possibly better than some employees, but they know only the rules that pertain to their specific situation and their individual traveling patterns, whereas employees have to learn new rules for all situations and all patterns, so they should be forgiven for not getting it right.
This management-enforced ineptitude irks customers, some of whom take it on ground staff, which ends up being even more frustrated and less likely to behave in the professionals that they are with the next customer...
The ball is in management's camp. I am not predicting the bankruptcy of UA if this or that happens, if the situation doesn't turn around completely in the next 30 days, etc... But unless management finally admits that the current situation needs more than the few tweaks and adjustments they keep talking about, UA will never be the airline they promised it would be.
traindoc From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 309 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14344 times:
My 2 cents.
Flew UA (ex CO) from EDI-EWR-IAH-SAT today. First off, my wife and I were using system wide upgrades. Our original flight to EWR was way late and asked if we could take the later flight since it had BF available. The UA rep, via phone, said that since Y was full, we could not upgrade to BF, as we had to have a coach seat first. I am a !k and my wife is Platinum, certainly no benefit here. The UA rep had no interest in trying to accommodate us.
But it gets better. On the EWR-IAH leg, we did not show up on the upgrade list. Why? I was told by the same rep that we had not checked in yet. I explained to her that I had boarding passes in hand as I had checked in Sunday PM.
Basically this merger is a disaster for many of us long time CO passengers. There does not seem to be any interest or desire to solve problems and accommodate the passenger. My wife and I have decided to fly WN domestically and the major foreign carriers internationally. We are unwilling to pay good money for bad service!
UALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2331 posts, RR: 2 Reply 30, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 12206 times:
I've been a loyal UA customer for 20 years. When CO joined *A, I tried them a few times. I was not overly impressed. Particularly, I missed E+ (and channel 9!). Since the merger I've flown both ex-UA and ex-CO routes. Not impressed with any. I'm not at all happy with the direction the merger is taking. Now, for my TATL trips, I'm trying my best to fly LX or LH, in that order. I'm even considering ditching Mileage Plus for Miles&More... Next, I guess I'll have to change my username here...
I got this crap on one of my leg this year. And I was sick doing a 3 days turn around HKG-EWR-HKG... I remember the days when system-wides didnt even require full fare tickets.... Just call, apply, confirm...
FlyingFan18 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 68 posts, RR: 0 Reply 32, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10485 times:
I can't believe the USA would actually allow three big airlines to rule the market. It is almost like a monopoly and prices will be higher along with fewer and fewer amenities. Anyway on the topic of CO and UA I can't really comment because I haven't flown either airline but a merger has to be hard and maybe after things are "complete" the new UA will be better than ever.
- FlyingFan18
tommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6173 posts, RR: 9 Reply 33, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10420 times:
It's nice to have a good balance of replies here intead of the usual round of CO cheerleaders who think that Kellner, TATL 757, 739, and DTV are the greatest things since sliced bread and that UA is still in bankruptcy.
I've flown UA on 4-5 different segments over the last two months since integration. All from mixed to very good.
EWR-MIA: PMUA 757. Bad weather which likely made the crew pissed off (ORD based) and didn't go out of their way for anybody. We had a delayed flight but they were straight up ignorant. My two friends were on the flight and when one of them asked for a coffee and a water the flight attendant said "YOU ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO GET ONE!" When they got to row 37 (saving grace, had a whole row to myself) I asked if they had any food and the same f/a said "NO! Just snackboxes!" And I said, "well, snackboxes are food." He said, "You want it or not?" I took it with a bottle of wine. Otherwise, I liked the PMUA 757, just had the sorely crew.
MIA-EWR: PMCO 739, Crew was MUCH better on this leg. Smiling, friendly, saying please and thank you. On the other hand I didn't like the 739 product at all.
EWR-LAX: PMUA 757. Last row on this 757 going to a job interview. Crew was ORD based and were very friendly. I made a joke about the freshbrew coffee (actually pretty good) to the F/a and she said "No Starbucks anymore, but I never liked it anyway." I was going to a job interview and the crew even took my suit jacket and gave me a full bottle of water upon leaving. Great flight overall.
LAX-ORD: PMUA 757. Typical relaxed atmosphere (LAX based crew) uneventful but certainly a good thing considering everything you hear about stuff going wrong.
ORD-EWR: Republic 170. Very good crew, very comfortable flight.
Overall I can't complain. I guess I lucked out but maybe it's because I was in Y and wasn't expecting much.
Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 10): Count me in the boat as having the opposite experience. I have notice CO people are not happy campers. What it boils down to is management greatly under estimated how different these two airlines are culture wise.
Which is odd because the PMCO culture is supposedly being injected into the airline at large. What does PMCO have to be pissed about? Losing the name?
Again, it varies but the rotten apples were IIRC at both IAH and EWR. I hear CLE was always the best. Actually when I was at EWR 2 weeks ago the G/A's and ticketing agents were surprisingly friendly and helpful. I was shocked.
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 13): Transferring in SFO, I, and several other customers, learned (only after boarding the plane) that UA had double booked a number of seats. The plane was packed. The flight attendants were in an uproar - mostly over the ground crew who took a very relaxed view of the situation. It took nearly an hour for someone to decide that those in the aisle just needed to sit where ever we could find a spot - some got booted. Then we waited another eternity because the plane had not been catered. The pilot refused to leave on an estimated 6 hour flight (due to weather issues) without some food and drinks. Our flight arrived into Boston sometime between 1:30 - 2:00 a.m.
Was this PMCO or PMUA?
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 19): So I vented a bit with a previous version of this post and didn't really intend to. I can distill my rant into a few points:
I think SHARES was the biggest blunder. High ranking elites not getting their promised upgrades and instead offering buy ups at kiosks. Wasn't this a CO thing?
Quoting CZ346 (Reply 27):
Don't even get me started on CO vs. UA 1k hotline. I can INSTANTLY tell if they're UA or CO and I'll hang up and call until I get a CO.
The opposite for me. I actually had the same CO agent TWICE and each time he was so incompentant that I never recieved confirmation e-mails. I had to call back 3 times to get them.
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 28): Beyond that, many changes were apparently not communicated well to customers and/or staff and it isn't rare to hear a conversation between an elite and an employee,
This is true, ditto for their social media and marketing programs which as just short of terrifying.
Quoting traindoc (Reply 29): Basically this merger is a disaster for many of us long time CO passengers. There does not seem to be any interest or desire to solve problems and accommodate the passenger.
But a lot of PMCO blood is running the show at UA. I think they are more to blame, no?
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
EaglePower83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 135 posts, RR: 0 Reply 34, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10364 times:
I'll offer up one more data-point.
BDL -ORD - LAX
PMUA crews. Pretty normal service; friendly, efficient. Traffic at BDL is low so the Shares BS doesn't show so obvious. Connection in Chicago was a madhouse. But agent spirits were still high.
I asked the man boarding us "how's the computer change going?"
He gives me this huge smile and says "Badly. Enjoy your flight."
LAX - EWR - BDL
PMCO crews. LAX was somewhat uneventful mostly because the CO agents know their Shares.
On the plane to EWR, the staff were pretty chilly, smiles were hard to find.
When the food cart came around, a FA looked at me stone-faced and ask "you want anything?"
The most life she showed was in explaining how the cheeseburgers were "pretty good."
So I had one. Got my food and drink, smiled and said thank you.
No reaction, she just wheeled to the next row.
I guess everyone has their bad days, but the atmosphere on the CO plane to EWR was noticeably chilly.
The Q400 to BDL was pretty friendly with chatty pilots.
Friendly but very abrasive gate agents at EWR............which I understand is more NJ culture than CO.
RDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1063 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10301 times:
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 19): - The disconnect between management's message and their actions
- Terrible employee morale
- Restrictions on employees to find common-sense solutions to customer issues (fear of audit)
- An outright lack of communication to customers, especially Premier members (lack of responsiveness)
- The general sense that loyalty no longer matters
- Austerity, leading to a very cheap-feeling product
I'll give you my personal view of all these things:
-Morale at Headquarters is fine, and there is a lot of posturing elsewhere because people are "upset" but they can never say what they are upset about.
-I'm not really sure what kind of solutions you're talking about when you're also talking about being audited. Perhaps bag fee waivers and things like that?
-There is a lot of communication going on to customers, it's just not the right communications. Also there are many customers reporting a general lack of will to help customers even when the capability exists and the help is within policy. Just look at the other comments in this thread.
-No idea what you're talking about with the loyalty one, as we were talking about INTERNAL issues, not customer issues. Employees are still fiercely loyal, even when they are upset.
-You've got no idea what you're talking about on austerity. The company is spending more money on pretty much every aspect of the airline than we at s-UA would ever have dreamed about. As a matter of fact, some of the things we are doing would probably have gotten you canned just for suggesting them back at PMUA.
Again, I'm a CO cheerleader, but even UA was better pre-merger. I flew on them a number of times and was happy with them. I know both sides are really unhappy, and I know both sides have their own individual complaints. I think (for me) a lot of it is "what you can and can't do". I knew CO's policies, service, and culture, and its different, but CO isn't alone in the boat. sUA is having the same trouble. Again, its just a drastic underanticipation of the difference in company culture and the two trying to merge together and everyone being pissed off about it. They just need to work on integration...
I'm not unhappy with the UA side, I'm not unhappy with the CO side, I'm unhappy with the attempt at integration. At the end of the day, everones just tryin to get food on the table..
panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4587 posts, RR: 26 Reply 37, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9965 times:
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 6): Some of it may be the EWR based crew. They may have a New York attitude while the PMUA crew were probably more laid back Californians.
There is always the misconception that NYC crews (at all airlines) have a "NY" attitude because they are from the area...at most if not all airlines with bases in NYC, the majority of crews based out of NYC are commuters and not New Yorkers. NYC is often one of the most junior bases at airlines due to the high cost of living, etc., so most FAs based there actually live somewhere else....
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 35): -No idea what you're talking about with the loyalty one, as we were talking about INTERNAL issues, not customer issues. Employees are still fiercely loyal, even when they are upset.
Think he was referring to frequent flyer loyalty - some Elites (whether "over-entitled" or not is another discussion) have been pretty vocal about their dislike of recent Mileage Plus changes recently.
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4277 posts, RR: 4 Reply 38, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9889 times:
Quoting panamair (Reply 37): There is always the misconception that NYC crews (at all airlines) have a "NY" attitude because they are from the area...at most if not all airlines with bases in NYC, the majority of crews based out of NYC are commuters and not New Yorkers.
Nevertheless in my travels it's absolutely true. The ground crews all live there. Enough of the flight crews also live there to give the NY travel experience a different flavor. Personally, I like it. I like a straight answer and have no need for fake obsequiousness or cheerfulness. But it can go too far, as the US ground staff in PHL amply demonstrates.
[Edited 2012-06-19 07:29:02]
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
RDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1063 posts, RR: 0 Reply 39, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9757 times:
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 38): Nevertheless in my travels it's absolutely true. The ground crews all live there. Enough of the flight crews also live there to give the NY travel experience a different flavor. Personally, I like it. I like a straight answer and have no need for fake obsequiousness or cheerfulness. But it can go too far, as the US ground staff in PHL amply demonstrates.
I was sitting at my gate from LGA this weekend and heard the gate agent say to the other after taking a call from the lobby: "B!%$h please, we don't need three more people, they can wait an hour."
rscaife1682 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 319 posts, RR: 0 Reply 40, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9672 times:
Quoting traindoc (Reply 29): Flew UA (ex CO) from EDI-EWR-IAH-SAT today. First off, my wife and I were using system wide upgrades. Our original flight to EWR was way late and asked if we could take the later flight since it had BF available. The UA rep, via phone, said that since Y was full, we could not upgrade to BF, as we had to have a coach seat first. I am a !k and my wife is Platinum, certainly no benefit here. The UA rep had no interest in trying to accommodate us.
But it gets better. On the EWR-IAH leg, we did not show up on the upgrade list. Why? I was told by the same rep that we had not checked in yet. I explained to her that I had boarding passes in hand as I had checked in Sunday PM.
Basically this merger is a disaster for many of us long time CO passengers. There does not seem to be any interest or desire to solve problems and accommodate the passenger. My wife and I have decided to fly WN domestically and the major foreign carriers internationally. We are unwilling to pay good money for bad service!
I am GS on united and have been for 3 years. Since the merger I have noticed issues like the one above on a daily basis. I have joined the mass exodus of Elites and migrated to Delta. So far no major complaints; better cabins, more inflight internet availability, free direct tv channels on certain flights, more AVOD systems on dometics flights, better presented flight crews and over all the long haul product is way ahead of UA. I will certain miss the PS JFK-LAX flight with UA.
CODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2167 posts, RR: 8 Reply 41, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9661 times:
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 35):
-I'm not really sure what kind of solutions you're talking about when you're also talking about being audited. Perhaps bag fee waivers and things like that?
Fee waivers, comping BOB items onboard (especially for FC customers), proactive re-accommodation outside established guidelines (where it makes sense), etc. The general feeling I get from flying is that employees are hesitant to follow common sense when it conflicts with policy for fear of termination. In the customer-facing positions, there is simply not a perception that management will agree with employees' judgment.
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 35):
-There is a lot of communication going on to customers, it's just not the right communications. Also there are many customers reporting a general lack of will to help customers even when the capability exists and the help is within policy. Just look at the other comments in this thread.
If a 3-6 month lag in email responses (if you get one at all), a completely ineffective social media presence or a customer service department that is deliberately difficult to reach (try calling them... can you find a phone number customers have access to?) qualifies as a lot of communication, then I suppose I have missed the boat. The fact that employee morale is so low or that the system is so difficult to use that they are unwilling to help is a MAJOR problem. I wouldn't point to that as any sort of valid, reasonable explanation for anything. That's a serious red flag.
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 35):
-No idea what you're talking about with the loyalty one, as we were talking about INTERNAL issues, not customer issues. Employees are still fiercely loyal, even when they are upset.
Well, we've already conflated some customer issues with internal issues here, so I think they are fair game. Employees may be loyal, but their choices are limited. At UA, pilots and flight attendants have not been hired for years, and the industry is contracting. Furthermore, loyalty to the company and loyalty to leadership are two completely different things.
In terms of passenger loyalty, very few frequent flyers are happy. This is evidenced by the overwhelmingly negative sentiment some of the internet message boards. If you don't trust those opinions, then go to Sales and ask them how pleased longtime customers are with new United. Things are not quite so rosy.
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 35):
-You've got no idea what you're talking about on austerity. The company is spending more money on pretty much every aspect of the airline than we at s-UA would ever have dreamed about. As a matter of fact, some of the things we are doing would probably have gotten you canned just for suggesting them back at PMUA.
There is no doubt the company is spending more on certain aspects of the operation, and rightfully so. Capex is as high as it has been in years and I am not complaining about that... it's a good thing for everyone. However, from the customer's perspective, there is a lot about the product that just looks and feels cheap.
- New FC meal service guidelines are a cut. Smaller portions, more restrictive meal windows, poor quality, shoddy presentation and terribly unhealthy meal options, not to mention a near across-the-board cutback from the previous CO service
- No FC pillows (AA, DL, US all have)
- Snack box service in F on long RJ flights where other competitors have full meal service
- Have you looked at the blankets lately? They are reminiscent of hospital gauze. Why even bother?
- Cheap, poor variety of snacks in the United Clubs. Inadequate selection compared to Delta or Alaska.
- Where is the integration of inflight products? New uniforms?
My belief is that the company feels it can make incremental cuts to the inflight/customer facing product without customers noticing. After a while, it is painfully evident. Ultimately, these are not products people want to spend money on.
N505FX From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 191 posts, RR: 0 Reply 42, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9676 times:
"Don't even get me started on CO vs. UA 1k hotline. I can INSTANTLY tell if they're UA or CO and I'll hang up and call until I get a CO. UA reps have never been ANY help to me, and a bunch of situations when I called back for a CO rep, they helped me in half the time it took the UA rep to repeat "no I cant do that". CO are way more likely to go out of their way to help you and take care of you.... (IMHO)"
I have had just the opposite, where the CO desk has done everything to just get me off the phone as quickly as possible - so I have called back until I get the Chicago call center. Just last week it was 5 calls to CO, on the 6th got United and FINALLY got my issue resolved.
DerwentWater747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 9 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9587 times:
As a 1K mileage run whore, I can say, from my own experience, CAL crews are far better. I try to pick my metal and hubs ie 737's and IAH, EWR over the 320's and ORD. I find the UA crews generally stink and are unremarkable. Not all of course, but the general experience.
tockeyhockey From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 932 posts, RR: 0 Reply 44, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9559 times:
just my two cents, but i always found UA crew to be extremely helpful and a bit less jaded. CO always seemed cold and "new york" to me.
bmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2083 posts, RR: 0 Reply 45, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9530 times:
Many airline mergers seem to end up making one party or group unhappy. Not sure about ex NW staff coping with new DL but I heard it was much smoother.
I heard this from a few friends back in early 2000's after the AC CP merger. Before merger CP crew were much nicer than AC crew but this seemed to change after merger.
Hopefully CO staff will adjust and become friendler. But this is just wishful thinking...
[Edited 2012-06-19 07:59:44]
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
Hmelawyer From United States of America, joined May 2011, 48 posts, RR: 0 Reply 46, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9321 times:
I have been a long time pmCO supporter and was platinum elite for a number of years. While historically the CO crews were always pleasant, ready to go the extra mile, and helpful the switchover from Kellner to Smisek seemed to be the event that started to cause a change. The merger came shortly after so I think to many the merger is blamed and there may be plenty of interplay there (problems are rarely the result of one factor), but I believe the real culprit is the management change. Smisek is fundamentally different and the relationship between his management team and labor is markedly different than it was under prior leadership.
As to pmUA: It has been hit or miss for me. Early in the merger I did have a couple of flights where I felt that the pmUA crew/gate agents gave me a lower level of service as a Continental Platinum then they gave equivalent UA Elites. Some were almost direct in their disdain for the merger and anything Continental. However, I have seen a lessening of that dynamic (at least with regard to treatment of customers).
At this point I don't believe that crews are any better or worse based on which airline they came from. The hostile feelings between management and labor will sink the standard of service for all crews. It was the one thing that Bethune and Kellner always preached.
RDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1063 posts, RR: 0 Reply 47, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 9149 times:
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 41): qualifies as a lot of communication, then I suppose I have missed the boat.
I get at least 10-12 emails a week from UA because of Mileage Plus, MP Shopping, MP Dining etc etc.. That IS communication, just not the kind that is helpful for someone who is flying and having real issues. That is what I'm referring to, it's just not what customers really need to be getting.
But yes, I agree with you, there are tons of service shortcomings when it comes to the "cheapness" of the product.
tommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6173 posts, RR: 9 Reply 48, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 9057 times:
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 41): At UA, pilots and flight attendants have not been hired for years, and the industry is contracting. Furthermore, loyalty to the company and loyalty to leadership are two completely different things.
Both UA and CO hired F/A's back in 2006-2007.
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 41): If a 3-6 month lag in email responses (if you get one at all), a completely ineffective social media presence or a customer service department that is deliberately difficult to reach (try calling them... can you find a phone number customers have access to?) qualifies as a lot of communication, then I suppose I have missed the boat. The fact that employee morale is so low or that the system is so difficult to use that they are unwilling to help is a MAJOR problem. I wouldn't point to that as any sort of valid, reasonable explanation for anything. That's a serious red flag.
I've heard stories where if a 1K had an issue pre-merger they would call the desk and get a reply in 1-2 business days. Since the merger and the migration to SHARES it now takes about a month and compensation is minimal.
There's also the famous CO SHARES flaw with IRROPS. If your plane gets cancelled you generally get screwed since it's almost impossible for a GA to rebook someone via SHARES in a timely manner (or they aren't compentant enough to do so.) Way too many stories about people at say EWR complaining to a GA, "oh my flight to OKC is cancelled, can you put me through ORD or DEN." GA will generally say, "No we can't do that." When UA still had Fastair they could rebook someone in 2 seconds. Bar none, incorporating SHARES was the worst decision of the merger thus far. The more you learn, the more you hate.
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 41): Fee waivers, comping BOB items onboard (especially for FC customers), proactive re-accommodation outside established guidelines (where it makes sense), etc.
Which, IIRC is comp if you are plat or exec. plat sitting in coach on AA.
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 41): - New FC meal service guidelines are a cut. Smaller portions, more restrictive meal windows, poor quality, shoddy presentation and terribly unhealthy meal options, not to mention a near across-the-board cutback from the previous CO service
- No FC pillows (AA, DL, US all have)
- Snack box service in F on long RJ flights where other competitors have full meal service
- Have you looked at the blankets lately? They are reminiscent of hospital gauze. Why even bother?
- Cheap, poor variety of snacks in the United Clubs. Inadequate selection compared to Delta or Alaska.
- Where is the integration of inflight products? New uniforms?
You hit the nail on the head. This is everything of what's wrong with this merger. As said months ago, it's taking the worst parts of each airline and setting the standard for the new UA.
Quoting Hmelawyer (Reply 46): Smisek is fundamentally different and the relationship between his management team and labor is markedly different than it was under prior leadership.
Smisek won't last long at this rate. He is a huge joke at the new UA.
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
CODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2167 posts, RR: 8 Reply 49, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 8993 times:
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 47):
I get at least 10-12 emails a week from UA because of Mileage Plus, MP Shopping, MP Dining etc etc.. That IS communication, just not the kind that is helpful for someone who is flying and having real issues. That is what I'm referring to, it's just not what customers really need to be getting.
But yes, I agree with you, there are tons of service shortcomings when it comes to the "cheapness" of the product.
Got it.
I'm a loyal UA flyer and have many close friends in the company on both sides of the house. I just call it like I see it, and I see a major lack of leadership, starting at the top. I am beginning to think Jeff either doesn't care to get the job done or isn't capable. The current perception of him by the rank-and-file could not be worse.
135mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 357 posts, RR: 2 Reply 50, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 8976 times:
Quoting DAL763ER (Thread starter): On the way there, of course it was a pmUA crew. On the way back, both flights were with ex-Continental crew. The difference in service was huge. The United crew were always smiling, checking if people need anything, very kind folks. The ex-Continental ones were very cold, doing the bare minimum and plainly asking "Do you want to eat?", which seems rather cold and their tone was rude.
It's sad when this happens, I experienced similar moods/attitudes from DL and NW when DL took them over. Flying out of GFK after the takeover was always a hit or miss with crews, NW crews were still polite, while the DL crews acted as if going to a small northern town like that was "beneath" them. Was very dissapointing!
tommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6173 posts, RR: 9 Reply 51, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 8909 times:
Quoting 135mech (Reply 50): It's sad when this happens, I experienced similar moods/attitudes from DL and NW when DL took them over. Flying out of GFK after the takeover was always a hit or miss with crews, NW crews were still polite, while the DL crews acted as if going to a small northern town like that was "beneath" them. Was very dissapointing!
Likely because GFK was strictly a PMNW station?
I feel like if there were ever any grievance issues towards DL, it was in the beginning and short lived. Anderson is a much better leader than Smisek.
Makes you kind of wonder what UA would have looked like if they had merged with CO back in 2008? Tilton would have likely been running the show.
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
readytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 3 Reply 52, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 8778 times:
An obervation from this side of the pond.
When flying to Florida from the UK I would pick the old CO over BA because the service onboard was better in BusinessFirst v Club. Ba is a direct flight and CO gave me a 2hr layover in EWR but I still picked it.Where I found the difference was the Int crew v Domestic, as if they went to 2 different training schools. The Int crew were keen to pls and the domestic where going through the motions.
Good luck people with the new airline, hope it smooths out soon, happy staff make happy customers!
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
AUSisAwesome From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 82 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8436 times:
Recently, I traveled AUS-SJC on both PMUA and PMCO. Honest to say, all flights were equally the same with both flights the crews were cheery and eager to help (both crews on outbound were based in DEN and UA1676 SJC-IAH were CLE/EWR based and UA1141 IAH-AUS were IAH based). However, UA1676 SJC-IAH were a PMCO crew, based in CLE/EWR (who would want to live in either cities) and I felt comfortable and all the F/A's were excited too be serving you and enjoyed their jobs. Both DEN-based PMUA crews just wanted to get their jobs done and sit (except on UA420 DEN-SJC, there were 2 F/A's who loved to talk to the passengers and make the flight more enjoyable). Who knows, maybe it was just 1 lucky flight to have a really good crew.
CHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 63 Reply 54, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8263 times:
CO never less than absolutely fantastic in my experience - crews, especially the ex-EWR ones brilliant. The best service ive ever had was on three separate CO flights ex-EWR (to LAS, SXM and HKG respectively) - they beat SQ for service in my view.
UA always decent and at their worst still better than anything Ive gotten on AA or DL or US but not in CO's league.
Again, its subjective. I know guys who really rate DL for example - i cannot for the life of me get my melon round that, but thats personal taste/choice for you i guess.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
flylku From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 721 posts, RR: 0 Reply 55, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8042 times:
Keep in mind this was only a tiny sample size. In organizations this size you are bound to run into outliers occasionally: really great and really bad.
kgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 3651 posts, RR: 1 Reply 56, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8081 times:
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 3): Before the merger, I always felt that CO crews were more likely to go the extra mile than UA crews. Since the merger, it's the other way around. There seems to be really poor morale on the CO side at this point, while the merger raised sUA's game in some ways.
I've had similar observations on domestic -- UA is getting more confident, and CO is getting frazzled.
As far as domestic is concerned, it depends on whether trainees are aboard or not. For instance, if a trainee is on IAH-DCA or IAH-BWI with folks who are practically daily commuters, they'll learn to swim or sink fast. Same with the 737-700 crews on SFO-SNA, SFO-SAN, and SFO-SEA -- you keep smiling and peddle like crazy; serve and don't stop to think about it.
OTOH, I've been on MIA-EWR 757s with mature FAs who can still wrap a champagne bottle in a towel and pour to the glass one-handed.
laca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3749 posts, RR: 2 Reply 57, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7945 times:
Quoting rscaife1682 (Reply 40):
I am GS on united and have been for 3 years. Since the merger I have noticed issues like the one above on a daily basis. I have joined the mass exodus of Elites and migrated to Delta. So far no major complaints; better cabins, more inflight internet availability, free direct tv channels on certain flights, more AVOD systems on dometics flights, better presented flight crews and over all the long haul product is way ahead of UA. I will certain miss the PS JFK-LAX flight with UA.
The PS JFK-LAX/SFO flights are going to be JY+Y in the near future. No more PS in that market.
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 41): New FC meal service guidelines are a cut. Smaller portions, more restrictive meal windows, poor quality, shoddy presentation and terribly unhealthy meal options, not to mention a near across-the-board cutback from the previous CO service
- No FC pillows (AA, DL, US all have)
- Snack box service in F on long RJ flights where other competitors have full meal service
- Have you looked at the blankets lately? They are reminiscent of hospital gauze. Why even bother?
- Cheap, poor variety of snacks in the United Clubs. Inadequate selection compared to Delta or Alaska.
- Where is the integration of inflight products? New uniforms?
This is too bad. CO had a sense of pride in the service they provided as they knew it was better than their competitors, hands down. Now....You might as well forget it.
I think someone should send this link over to UA headquarters so they can see what people are saying and if anyone knows how to reach Smisek via email, send him this link too.
It seems as they just don't care. It's still hard to believe they didn't do a thorough training on SHARES for UA staff. What were they thinking?
chopchop767 From Italy, joined Aug 2010, 226 posts, RR: 0 Reply 58, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7909 times:
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 54): UA always decent and at their worst still better than anything Ive gotten on AA or DL or US but not in CO's league.
I would tend to agree with you on that one. When I was still in Japan, I was fortunate enough to try out AA, DL, JL, NW, All Nippon and generally used UA over the Pacific. While I have to hand it to JL and All Nippon, UA was consistently the best of the American carriers over the Pacific. I never had the opportunity to fly CO though.
Now that I'm on the other side of the Atlantic, * Alliance really has the most convenient service out of NAP. As such, I've flown mostly on LH and UA and have sampled US and CO. The inconsistency is what drives me to LH especially when flying to SEA and BOS, where they have non-stops from FRA. Whereas, I've had wonderful experiences in J and Y on UA that far exceeded LH, I've had some that were pretty discouraging. Consistency really is what earns my dollar, even if UA and LH are JV.
If I have to connect, I go through IAD. I'm from NJ and I still avoid EWR only because so many of the agents have been so snarky and rude. For a few months, I was connecting through EWR late last year, I had a paid UA Club membership and was Star Gold. When I would check in at the President's Club and hand over my credentials to the agent, it was as if I had handed them a bag of feces. I realize in EWR, that the agents probably get a lot of attitude, but if their customer is pleasant, I don't see why they couldn't be. I never really saw that even pre-merger UA.
Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 10): oh and thank you for flying Continental crew on top of keeping all the other CO procedures too.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15733 posts, RR: 48 Reply 59, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7890 times:
Quoting rscaife1682 (Reply 40): I am GS on united and have been for 3 years.
I'm confused...UA had none, or very little of any of this:
Quoting rscaife1682 (Reply 40): So far no major complaints; better cabins, more inflight internet availability, free direct tv channels on certain flights, more AVOD systems on dometics flights, better presented flight crews and over all the long haul product is way ahead of UA.
thomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3723 posts, RR: 25 Reply 60, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7849 times:
Quoting laca773 (Reply 57): I think someone should send this link over to UA headquarters so they can see what people are saying and if anyone knows how to reach Smisek via email, send him this link too.
You'd probably be surprised how many airline "Big Wigs" or their lap dog underlings actually do read this and other forums, not that will effect any real change however.
tommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6173 posts, RR: 9 Reply 61, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7790 times:
Quoting chopchop767 (Reply 58):
If I have to connect, I go through IAD. I'm from NJ and I still avoid EWR only because so many of the agents have been so snarky and rude.
I used to think that way back from the old CO days but when I've been to Terminal C over the last two visits the experience was been MUCH better at large. The UA clubs have pretty great staff at their reception desks too. Although when I was flying EWR-MIA two months ago my flight was extremely delayed and I got slammed in the C-120 club and this Eastern European bar tender tried to cut me off. Although I pretty much laughed in her face and got another drink.
My only major complaint at EWR is they have to get GA's that speak better English -- the announcements are a joke especially when there are no GDS monitors.
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
Stratacruiser From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 53 posts, RR: 0 Reply 62, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7700 times:
I'm a UA 1K - from pmUA - and have to say in my experience there is no hard-and-fast rule. I've been on a number of long-hauls with both pmUA and pmCO crews in the past eight months, and can't say I've seen a significant difference in quality. It's generally good, with an occasional downer regardless of pre-merger employer. Same for domestic, where I've used all the major hubs recently.
IAHworldflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 99 posts, RR: 0 Reply 63, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7504 times:
Quoting Hmelawyer (Reply 46): the switchover from Kellner to Smisek seemed to be the event that started to cause a change. The merger came shortly after so I think to many the merger is blamed and there may be plenty of interplay there (problems are rarely the result of one factor), but I believe the real culprit is the management change. Smisek is fundamentally different and the relationship between his management team and labor is markedly different than it was under prior leadership.
Agreed!
That's where I believe the employee morale problems amongst the pmCO crews originated. And the morale problems of the pmUA crews have a lot to do with a lack of training with the SHARES system. In my flying with both types of crews since January, I see more of an attitude of indifference than anything else. Not mean or surly, but rarely as pleasant and helpful as either of the pre merger crews were. Yesterday I flew a UAexpress flight into IAH ( admittedly this is operated by Expressjet). Due to some weather issues, our 460 mile flightplan was diverted into a 700+ mile trip, and resulted in a delay of about 25 minutes. Never once did the flight crew come on the intercom to say why were were flying out of the way, or what our new arrival time would be, or even what gate we would be disembarking at. I don't want or expect an update every 5 minutes, but ONE announcement as to our new schedule would have been customer friendly. Unfortunately, I do not see this attitude changing until another, more customer focused management team is put into place in Chicago.
mfricke From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 266 posts, RR: 0 Reply 65, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7483 times:
I am in Barcelona right now, and flew here SFO-EWR-LIS-BCN, with the SFO-EWR flight on pre-merger UA and the EWR-LIS flight on pre-merger CO. The SFO to EWR flight was wonderful. The UA pilot described many times throughout the flight in detail about the developing weather en route, he encouraged passengers to tune in to the air traffic control channel, and when Terminal C was gridlocked due to a disabled 757, he relayed all the info he got from ATC immediately to the passengers, making a one hour Tarmac wait on arrival very manageable. The FA's were very friendly and helpful, and it was a wonderful flight. as for the CO flight to LIS, it was quite different. The pilot said upon departure and upon arrival "thank you for choosing....Continental!" During this flight, we had as long as a Tarmac delay as I had upon arrival, but not the same updates to the passengers. The flight attendants were distant. During the breakfast service, one FA, who was acting so "cooler than thou" during the entire flight, spilled Sprite all over me and my iPad. He couldn't even say he was sorry, rather he advised to call customer service. I wanted to ask if I should call th kind Ms. Irlweg , the infamous UA customer service agent from the song "United Breaks Guitars." Well, after not apologizing to me, he handed me off to the other flight attendant, who had no idea how to fill out the cleaning reimbursement certificate. I had to teach him how to do it correctly. Mind you, I was very friendly during this event, yet when the FA who spilled all over me and I were walking all alone in the hallway after passport control, he couldn't even make eye contact with me, let alone apologize. In addition, the food on the CO flight was the absolute worst mush of beef and mashed potatoes I have ever tasted, and I only eat meat and potatoes, so that is saying something. As a frequent UA flyer, and one who remembers well all my flights on CO in the Frank Lorenzo years, I feel that CO still has remnants of the problems and the chips on their shoulders they had from the 1982 pilot's strike, their history as New York Air and People Express (heck, Trans-Texas and Texas International for that matter), and they still have a ways to go to meet the UA service standards. I am one who has respect for aviation history, but post-merger to still call the airline Continental? Anybody who knows EWR CO history knows that ever since Frank Lorenzo went to meet Bob Six at his house to tell him he was wresting his airline away from him, knows that the real CO dies with the Lorenzo acquisition, and ever since then it has just been an amalgamation of left-over carriers; Texas-International, Eastern, New York Air, Froniter I, People Express. As for me, I will still count 1982 as the end at the real Continental Airlines.
I've noticed this too. This is my first year as GS. I did 240k last year and had about $75k in full-fare J. My total reward milage was over 400,000 miles. Right when I was cursing UA for not having a published milage tier over 100k, I got my GS invite for this year. Obviously my travel is extremely high, and the entire year the only flights not on UA were *a within Asia. I'm pretty sure I would have gotten CS had it been CO, but honestly, I don't see a lot of perks for GS like us. Also, whats the point posting "Global Services" everywhere if sooo few people are "invited??
I sent you a PM with a couple questions, but I'm horribly horribly depressed with the level of service. I got more with OnePass Platinum Elite, and I've heard other new GS guys complain they used to get better served being 1k.
LHCVG From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 1369 posts, RR: 1 Reply 68, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7309 times:
Quoting laca773 (Reply 57): The PS JFK-LAX/SFO flights are going to be JY+Y in the near future. No more PS in that market.
Have I been under a rock the last few months? Unless I missed something, PS is staying, just with sCO BF J seats up front, no F, and some Y in lieu of just Y+ in back on PMUA. Still PS as far as I can tell.
tommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6173 posts, RR: 9 Reply 69, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7257 times:
Quoting mfricke (Reply 65): knows that the real CO dies with the Lorenzo acquisition, and ever since then it has just been an amalgamation of left-over carriers; Texas-International, Eastern, New York Air, Froniter I, People Express. As for me, I will still count 1982 as the end at the real Continental Airlines.
And RIP the former Los Angeles based Continental....
You are correct that there are some reminants of Lorenzo era Continental at the New United -- one of those things being SHARES (AKA: system one -- robbed from Eastern) and another being ONE PASS (still can't believe they kept that name from the Lorenzo days until it dissolved into MP.) However the current decline of PMCO work ethic doesn't have a whole lot to do with entitlement from the Lorenzo days, rather the Bethune era. Bethune can be highly regarded as one of the most effective airline CEOs, but the sense of employee smugness started with him and the new hires during his tenure. They had too much pride for their own good and now quite a few of PMCO staff are behaving like children instead of playing ball and getting with the program -- like how you described on your flight to LIS.
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
chopchop767 From Italy, joined Aug 2010, 226 posts, RR: 0 Reply 70, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7230 times:
Quoting CZ346 (Reply 67): I'm pretty sure I would have gotten CS had it been CO, but honestly, I don't see a lot of perks for GS like us. Also, whats the point posting "Global Services" everywhere if sooo few people are "invited??
I still remember when UA had the 1K lounges. I have to say, living in Europe, one of the perks of being a lowly UA Platinum, it's nice to be able to use the Star Gold lounges for free even when flying in economy. Even though the Senator lounges are often very crowd, a free beer/wine and snack makes you feel a little appreciated, or at least recognized. I think UA would be well served to bring back those lounges for 1Ks, or at least a GS lounge free of charge; if that isn't already a perk. If you're spending $75K in one year, to nickel and dime for $400 doesn't seem worth it.
I've noticed with UA, that while there is some frustration with the new computer system, the employees are pretty positive and do want to get you from point a to point b; not only on the ground, but especially the pilots with route up dates.
On another note, the other day in FRA, I noticed that UA FAs still had CO uniforms on. When are they rolling out new uniforms? Removing that visual difference may smooth over some of the dissatisfaction.
FURUREFA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 762 posts, RR: 2 Reply 71, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7194 times:
Quoting chopchop767 (Reply 70): On another note, the other day in FRA, I noticed that UA FAs still had CO uniforms on. When are they rolling out new uniforms? Removing that visual difference may smooth over some of the dissatisfaction.
Everyone is wearing their own sUA or sCO uniforms until the new uniform re-design, which is slated to come out at the end of this year.
At the end of the day, in most ways, we are still operating as two very different airlines.
N505FX From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 191 posts, RR: 0 Reply 73, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7077 times:
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 69): They had too much pride for their own good and now quite a few of PMCO staff are behaving like children instead of playing ball and getting with the program
United787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2346 posts, RR: 1 Reply 74, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7037 times:
Disclaimer, I don't work for United and I don't work in the airline industry.
IMHO, it seems to me that the overall problem with this merger goes right to the top, Jeff Smisek. I don't have any insight into how he runs the company but there are some definite red flags that are very concerning to me. He seems to have a huge ego, which I would expect from someone who has reached his position, but his seems to be of a dangerous type.
The first red flag was the new branding for the airline and how he took credit for (actually bragged about) coming up with the idea himself even after the general consensus is that the branding is a terrible solution, so bad they tried to correct it a few weeks later with the font change but still sucks. A strong leader will bring the right people for the job. My concern is that he may have a real problem listening to and trusting in the people that work for him or the consultants that are hired by him...
The other red flag is his over exposure, it appears at though he thinks he IS the company. I see him everywhere from the safety videos to Hemispheres to public media outlets on a daily basis...I don't ever remember seeing Glenn Tilton this much... I think real flight attendants should be in the safety videos, not Jeff. I was suprised that when I went to the photo section of the media page at United, Jeff has his own little section. AA and DL have photos of all sorts of employees from ramp to pilot to corporate...UA has Jeff, surprised they don't have Jeff the pilot, Jeff the reservation agent; Jeff the janitor...
I understand I am judging from very limited knowledge but if any of that is an indicator of his leadership style...I am worried for this company...
For the record, I have been loyal to United for a long time and was very happy about the merger, I still am optimistic that things will improve with time but they need to strong leadership to point this in the right direction. The transition to Shares and all of the related other system changes was a disaster...but the handling of the disaster was even worse...
LHCVG From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 1369 posts, RR: 1 Reply 75, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6914 times:
Quoting United787 (Reply 74): The other red flag is his over exposure, it appears at though he thinks he IS the company. I see him everywhere from the safety videos to Hemispheres to public media outlets on a daily basis...I don't ever remember seeing Glenn Tilton this much... I think real flight attendants should be in the safety videos, not Jeff. I was suprised that when I went to the photo section of the media page at United, Jeff has his own little section. AA and DL have photos of all sorts of employees from ramp to pilot to corporate...UA has Jeff, surprised they don't have Jeff the pilot, Jeff the reservation agent; Jeff the janitor...
Devil's advocate here....could this be a conscious move to position him as the head of the company? IOW, might this be intended to show "hey, I'm Jeff Smisek, and I'm [the CEO of] United, not just some faceless group of bureaucrats in the Willis Tower"? Don't get me wrong - I'll be the first to enjoy a good Smisek joke, and when I met him at ORD last year I did get a bit of a cocky vibe, but I can see a rationale for how he is being positioned in the videos and marketing materials.
n92r03 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 251 posts, RR: 0 Reply 76, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6887 times:
Since we are sharing stories... I've done 5 flights between TPA and HKG in the last year most in Y. Some through ORD on UA and others through EWR on CO and two weeks ago via EWR on the new UA.
Overall, the pmUA staff was hands down much more accommodating and just plain nice.
This last flight, I went BizFirst. On the outbound leg (s) the staff was great, greeting everyone by name, coming around at the end of the flight and thanking the pax individually, again by name, etc, etc.
On the return flights, completely different. The purser, errrrr, in-flight managers did the minimal, they were not rude, but they did the absolute minimal. On the HKG-EWR flight it almost appears that they wanted to make even more noise clanking the dishes, etc so that no one could sleep. Yes, I doubt that is the case but that is what it seemed like.
Strange thing is on both return legs, when the FA's did the announcements they specifically mentioned that they were "ex-continental" crew.
LHCVG From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 1369 posts, RR: 1 Reply 77, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6845 times:
Quoting n92r03 (Reply 76): Strange thing is on both return legs, when the FA's did the announcements they specifically mentioned that they were "ex-continental" crew.
Oh there's a whole thread on pilot's using that language, and the ensuing debate over whether it's appropriate (or not). Worth a read to skim through the various takes on it.
BCEaglesCO757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 213 posts, RR: 2 Reply 78, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6647 times:
Let me prface my comment,by saying I 100% love my job and what I do.
That said...I can't speak for the othe work groups,but mine is as short-handed as they come. And has been for a least 3-4 years now. Where they are going to cut 1,300 will be amazing to see. Because IMO we need to HIRE some people.
If the idea is to squeeze more profits out of less people during the busy summer season, it is an bad idea. The beat the mule until he gives out way of managing is not working. That may why some on the CO side may be grumpy.
I see why coworkers turn flights ASAP here in IAH with bare bones staffing.
I don't know what GlenTiltons management style was at Pre-merger United. Perhaps sUA think they got a Gordon Bethune in Jeff with his CEO exchanges and employees able to come out meet him and ask questions throughout the system.
But on the CO side............ Not to say he is a bad man....but he is no Bethune certainly.
rwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2152 posts, RR: 7 Reply 79, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6399 times:
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 12): US airlines don’t hold standards anywhere near as tight as an airline like Emirates or Singapore do.
Oh yes, the darlings of the industry. Not young or pretty enough for the 'tight' standards of a chauvinist market? FIRED. Let's see those 'top' airlines and their pretty staff deal with that which US airlines deal with. But only after they've done it 30 years! You've been around long enough to know that there are extenuating circumstances as to why the airlines are different.
The early bird gets the worm, BUT...the second mouse gets the cheese!
N505FX From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 191 posts, RR: 0 Reply 80, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6384 times:
Hopefully this thread will remain open so I can report back - Thursday I fly LAX-HNL, a trip I have done over 50 times with pmUA, now it is on pmCO 757-300, so I will have a direct comparison to pmUA as, from a hardware perspective, its a level playing ground.
Cush From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 197 posts, RR: 0 Reply 81, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6196 times:
I have had good service on United, but nothing and I repeat, NOTHING can compare to the old Continental service. I was an employee for a few months and I can tell you that our main focus was the customer.
I always loved the fact that Continental was very picky about clean planes, good service, and decent food. I loved Continental and their brand all around. What a great company and great people!
N505FX From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 191 posts, RR: 0 Reply 82, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5876 times:
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 12): US airlines don’t hold standards anywhere near as tight as an airline like Emirates or Singapore do.
It's the U.S. Carriers, its the U.S. - try getting away with "hey grumpy/fatty, come over here and fit in to the uniform you wore 20 years ago" and see how fast you have every union/feminist/government regulator/morning new show/blogger on your butt for discrimination.
nycdave From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 518 posts, RR: 1 Reply 83, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5520 times:
As most have noted, this is all going to be a lot of apocryphal anecdotes, personal experiences, and speculation.
If you want something close to a "scientific" measure of service between PMCO and PMUA, you're best looking at things like Consumer Reports, Skytrax, and anything that is similarly based on blind survey data.
FWIW, Consumer Reports rated UA, in the last year before integration, at the bottom of the heap for US air carriers. CO was in the middle of the pack... but there wasn't exactly a huge disparity between the middle and the bottom.
I also think, though don't have any data to back it up, that another factor is the gap in service between elites/premium and coach & non-elite. From MY personal experience, I think there was a much bigger gap between the UA experience in Coach vs. First and Business than there was between Coach and BizFirst on CO... in that CO basic product was a bit better than UA's, but UA's premium services might have gone a step or two further than CO's service.
aviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1453 posts, RR: 16 Reply 84, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5253 times:
Ironically, some of the best inflight service I have experienced on Continental came from middle-aged ladies who knew their work, loved their job, were keen to serve and knew exactly what made a flight memorable.
They have given me tonnes of reasons to forever remember Continental forever.
BCEaglesCO757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 213 posts, RR: 2 Reply 85, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4979 times:
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 69): but the sense of employee smugness started with him and the new hires during his tenure. They had too much pride for their own good and now quite a few of PMCO staff are behaving like children instead of playing ball and getting with the program -- like how you described on your flight to LIS.
Again. What do you ddo at UA ?
You always have the right ansswers and the inside info.
Are you aware of the staffing levels currently ?
Again TOMMY767,
What is it that you do at the new UA that gives you an inside track on why sCO workers are working the way they do.
Since I was hired under Bethune, I was furloughed after 9/11,survived SARS and the 2nd Gulf War, a puy cut, THEN freeze in 2005. High oil prices and now the current economic meltdown.
I will say alot of my sCO coworkers..all workgroups... have put the company first MANY times in the past.
Alot of work groups voting no on unions in the past. On the good faith that the company would deal in good faith with them.
Up until about a year ago CO may have been the LEAST unionized Major other than Delta.
Did I ever ask you what you did at UA or CO. Even better the new UA that always seem to lend you such insight on the innerworkings of the company.
laca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3749 posts, RR: 2 Reply 86, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4925 times:
Quoting chopchop767 (Reply 70): On another note, the other day in FRA, I noticed that UA FAs still had CO uniforms on. When are they rolling out new uniforms? Removing that visual difference may smooth over some of the dissatisfaction.
Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 71):
Everyone is wearing their own sUA or sCO uniforms until the new uniform re-design, which is slated to come out at the end of this year.
At the end of the day, in most ways, we are still operating as two very different airlines.
What in the world were they thinking and doing during the process of merging ? They can't even come up with a short term solution for uniforms until they have a new, modern uniform designed. They really did do this merger less than half ass.
At one point several years ago, they were going to have Betsy Johnson (?) design the new UA uniforms across the board. She spent a lot of time with all the employee groups to get their input. I believe the deal to have Betsy Johnson design the new uniforms came to an end, when UA wanted her to use less expensive textiles and she refused to cheapen the designs or looks. Makes sense to me. Betsy wanted those who were going to wear the uniforms to enjoy them, have a sense of pride when they put them on and represented UA.
Who's going to design them now? The usual industrial uniform company? It's not Angelica? It's....?
tommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6173 posts, RR: 9 Reply 87, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4646 times:
Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 85): What is it that you do at the new UA that gives you an inside track on why sCO workers are working the way they do.
I don't work for United or in the industry for that matter.
Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 85): Since I was hired under Bethune, I was furloughed after 9/11,survived SARS and the 2nd Gulf War, a puy cut, THEN freeze in 2005. High oil prices and now the current economic meltdown.
I will say alot of my sCO coworkers..all workgroups... have put the company first MANY times in the past.
But how is that different than anybody else who worked for a major airline around that time and put the company first? CO was doing OK back then, but people working at DL, NW, AA, UA, and US had it much worse in the early 2000s. I'm not saying that your employee pride is unjust, what I'm saying is that Bethune created a silver spoon employee culture amongst the ranks at Continental. I'm not saying that's bad, I'm saying it was his motivational strategy to bring morale at CO back up from the Lorenzo era.
Quoting laca773 (Reply 86): What in the world were they thinking and doing during the process of merging ? They can't even come up with a short term solution for uniforms until they have a new, modern uniform designed. They really did do this merger less than half ass.
In many ways yes. It seems the customer facing employee was put last in this merger. The should have had new uniforms starting on JAN 01 this year. I don't understand the delay either.
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
FURUREFA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 762 posts, RR: 2 Reply 88, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4567 times:
Quoting laca773 (Reply 86): At one point several years ago, they were going to have Betsy Johnson (?) design the new UA uniforms across the board. She spent a lot of time with all the employee groups to get their input. I believe the deal to have Betsy Johnson design the new uniforms came to an end, when UA wanted her to use less expensive textiles and she refused to cheapen the designs or looks. Makes sense to me. Betsy wanted those who were going to wear the uniforms to enjoy them, have a sense of pride when they put them on and represented UA.
kgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 3651 posts, RR: 1 Reply 89, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4533 times:
Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 88): Quoting laca773 (Reply 86):
At one point several years ago, they were going to have Betsy Johnson (?) design the new UA uniforms across the board. She spent a lot of time with all the employee groups to get their input. I believe the deal to have Betsy Johnson design the new uniforms came to an end, when UA wanted her to use less expensive textiles and she refused to cheapen the designs or looks. Makes sense to me. Betsy wanted those who were going to wear the uniforms to enjoy them, have a sense of pride when they put them on and represented UA.
Cynthia Rowley.
Meaning no disrespect to anyone (I like Cynthia Rowley) I would love to see a Betsy Johnson uniform design.
RDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1063 posts, RR: 0 Reply 90, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4537 times:
Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 78): I see why coworkers turn flights ASAP here in IAH with bare bones staffing.
I will just say if you think you have bare bones staffing now... Be thankful that we moved to a hybrid of UA/CO staffing standards because PM-UA was even leaner Folks at ORD at thanking their lucky stars for a few extra folks hanging around.
Quoting laca773 (Reply 86): Who's going to design them now? The usual industrial uniform company? It's not Angelica? It's....?
Quoting laca773 (Reply 86): I believe the deal to have Betsy Johnson design the new uniforms came to an end, when UA wanted her to use less expensive textiles and she refused to cheapen the designs or looks.
I believe Cintas is doing them now but I could be wrong. Also, I am fairly sure that they got rid of her because she just was not on board with the program and was missing deadlines, making too many changes late in the process, etc.
tommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6173 posts, RR: 9 Reply 92, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4486 times:
I just did a google search and I can't find any images of the proposed uniforms. Does anybody have a link? I remember last year there were some character sketches on a long thread with the new uniforms but I can't find it.
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
klwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 3 Reply 93, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 4396 times:
Quoting mfricke (Reply 65): I feel that CO still has remnants of the problems and the chips on their shoulders they had from the 1982 pilot's strike, their history as New York Air and People Express (heck, Trans-Texas and Texas International for that matter), and they still have a ways to go to meet the UA service standards. I am one who has respect for aviation history, but post-merger to still call the airline Continental? Anybody who knows EWR CO history knows that ever since Frank Lorenzo went to meet Bob Six at his house to tell him he was wresting his airline away from him, knows that the real CO dies with the Lorenzo acquisition, and ever since then it has just been an amalgamation of left-over carriers; Texas-International, Eastern, New York Air, Froniter I, People Express. As for me, I will still count 1982 as the end at the real Continental Airlines.
My goodness... I really respect your depth of knowledge... I have spoken to my father about the olden days at the old Texas International and the labor turmoil back in the day. However most of these people have moved on in life. Like my father, who has since passed on. This events are ancient history and have no bearing on the present.
BCEaglesCO757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 213 posts, RR: 2 Reply 94, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 4403 times:
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 90): I will just say if you think you have bare bones staffing now... Be thankful that we moved to a hybrid of UA/CO staffing standards because PM-UA was even leaner Folks at ORD at thanking their lucky stars for a few extra folks hanging around.
What exactly were you all doing at ORD ? The impression here was that you all had at least 4 people on a plane.
Right now more and more flights at IAH are being turned up and down with 3 people. Mostly 738's. Especiallly 737-700's, 735's and 739's since it has the carpet. Up and down. If you can get someone to help you out,great.
BCEaglesCO757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 213 posts, RR: 2 Reply 95, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 4360 times:
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 87): Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 85):
What is it that you do at the new UA that gives you an inside track on why sCO workers are working the way they do.
I don't work for United or in the industry for that matter.
Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 85):
Since I was hired under Bethune, I was furloughed after 9/11,survived SARS and the 2nd Gulf War, a puy cut, THEN freeze in 2005. High oil prices and now the current economic meltdown.
I will say alot of my sCO coworkers..all workgroups... have put the company first MANY times in the past.
But how is that different than anybody else who worked for a major airline around that time and put the company first? CO was doing OK back then, but people working at DL, NW, AA, UA, and US had it much worse in the early 2000s. I'm not saying that your employee pride is unjust, what I'm saying is that Bethune created a silver spoon employee culture amongst the ranks at Continental. I'm not saying that's bad, I'm saying it was his motivational strategy to bring morale at CO back up from the Lorenzo era.
The point behind my comment, without trying to attack you, is that for someone who doesn't work here, has gone through any of those things with us. You tend to save some of your harshest comments for sCO employees.
I just find that amazing.
As far as those other carriers, yes they did go through some hard times.
So would you think that the DL employees were not getting onboard because they created the 'Keep Delta my Delta' mantra before the merger ?
Whats the difference ? They had a culture that was created there that they worked hard to create.
So why is this an issue with sCO employees ?
Who after years of Lorenzo and two Chapter 12 trips finally got it together. Only to see things backslide after Bethune left.
I'm going to leave this alone. But will say we're no different than anyone else. And it gets quite tiring to see you constantly assail my coworkers on here all the time. We're not perfect or the best thing since sliced bread, but how long you going to beat that horse ?
Because it's now UA. Everytime something is not right, it's not the sUA employees who are the problem and it's not the sCO employees. We're all UA employees now.
CODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2167 posts, RR: 8 Reply 96, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 4304 times:
It's patently ridiculous to
1) impute a character flaw (excessive pride) to an entire workforce, and
2) attribute the shortcomings and difficulties of a massive corporate merger to that characteristic.
HNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 796 posts, RR: 0 Reply 97, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 4325 times:
I've had the opportunity to fly UA's non-stop between DEN-HNL a couple of times in the last month and will fly it again next week. The aircraft is a former CO 764 and the crew is CO. I've flown this UA flight for years and while a rather typical domestic flight always enjoyed the crews, some older, some younger. Since the changeover to CO crews and aircraft the experience is consistently quite different. There is rarely a smile. everything is coldly efficient leaving no feeling of being welcome on board. There is absolutely nothing warm or friendly about the service.
What I find particularly interesting since the CO takeover of this route are the cockpit announcements. The announcements are all about the crew being all CO implying a superior inflight experience. One, the announcement seems inappropiate for the merged airline and two, shows a complete misunderstanding of the UA experience once delivered on this flight. It leaves one with the impression, if this is what CO perceived as superior inflight service to what UA offered previously, then they haven't done their homework.
I hope this is not a widespread practice across the system. Announcements and attitudes such as this are divisive and can only hurt all employed by UA. What's even more perplexing is that it is the CO employees and it is their CEO who is running the airline. You would think they would be doing everything possible to support him and the CO management team who moved into Willis Tower if they want to make a statement of how good CO really was.
Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
RDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1063 posts, RR: 0 Reply 98, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4264 times:
Quoting HNL-Jack (Reply 97): I hope this is not a widespread practice across the system. Announcements and attitudes such as this are divisive and can only hurt all employed by UA.
Once everyone is forced to work side-by-side I think this will cease to exist.
A lot of people think that by writing to jeff.smisek@united.com that it is read by Jeff Smisek himself. No, no, no, that email box is answered by staff. His "real" email address is close to that but it is not that.
"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
tommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6173 posts, RR: 9 Reply 100, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4252 times:
Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 95): Because it's now UA. Everytime something is not right, it's not the sUA employees who are the problem and it's not the sCO employees. We're all UA employees now.
From what I've read on flyertalk, there is persistant in your face propaganda about how sCO cockpit announcements are calling flights as "continental" including individual crews, airline and in some rare cases "One Pass" mileage redeption program. My issue is that some crews aren't thinking of this merged airline as United, but they are trying to hold onto the past. I'm sure you've heard about this, and I ask you when is it appropriate to finally move on?
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
Thanks for the correction, FURUREFA. I appreciate it.
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 90):
I believe Cintas is doing them now but I could be wrong. Also, I am fairly sure that they got rid of her because she just was not on board with the program and was missing deadlines, making too many changes late in the process, etc.
I remember reading something about UA execs wanting her to change textiles because of the cost. Her comment was, I'm not going to lower the quality of my designs, product. She wanted UA everyone @ UA to have a sense of pride in the new uniforms, something they look forward to putting on.
Cintas is what Angelica is to making hospital gowns, sheets. That's a HUGE step down from Cynthia Rowley.
UA should have been able to find a great designer to work with them to come up with a decent uniform, even if they didn't use premium textiles in every garment.
In any event, both uniform sets need updating period. Three years ago, I saw a UA FA sitting in the back of a 75 on LAX-ORD using one of those tape lint brushes on her jacket. In addition to all the little goodies she had on her jacket (It reminded me of a trashy car with too many bumper stickers), she had these little balls of lint. It was really bad!
BC77008 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 230 posts, RR: 0 Reply 103, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3986 times:
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 100): From what I've read on flyertalk, there is persistant in your face propaganda about how sCO cockpit announcements are calling flights as "continental" including individual crews, airline and in some rare cases "One Pass" mileage redeption program. My issue is that some crews aren't thinking of this merged airline as United, but they are trying to hold onto the past. I'm sure you've heard about this, and I ask you when is it appropriate to finally move on?
That has been largely my experience when I fly sCO. They welcome you aboard United, thank you for flying United, but somewhere in there they sneak in that they are a Continental crew or a pilot may say something like "I hope that you enjoy the fine legendary Continental service..." which is funny because lately the sCO crew seems to love hanging out in the galley. And yes, I do fly mainline sCO and sUA at least once a week.
A few months ago, in March, the CO name and OnePass name were both retired. Yes there was a time or two after we were told not to use the CO name or OnePass name that I may have just slipped up and said it during my announcements, although I would always correct myself. But if that is still going on in June then it is being done deliberately.
"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
strfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 488 posts, RR: 0 Reply 104, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3972 times:
I think the Unhappiness is because of CHANGE itself. The S-CO flight attendants had to move to the S-UA flight attendant's Union the bidding is probably different, their Seniority is generally LOWER and the Money trips are probably Fewer.
I think it'll eventually work out IMHO
tommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6173 posts, RR: 9 Reply 105, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3538 times:
Quoting Sulley (Reply 102): There's your problem right there...
I dabble. What's wrong with flyertalk? It's the opposite of this forum -- It's got a sUA slant whereas on this forum it has always been slanted towards sCO. That's why I like to read both, for perspective reasons.
Quoting BC77008 (Reply 103): They welcome you aboard United, thank you for flying United, but somewhere in there they sneak in that they are a Continental crew or a pilot may say something like "I hope that you enjoy the fine legendary Continental service..." which is funny because lately the sCO crew seems to love hanging out in the galley.
Yes they are notorious for this. There is a serious entitlement gap amongst sCO flight crews. I really don't get the old chip on the shoulder routine as many thing from CO are now part of UA including the CEO and logo.
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
RDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1063 posts, RR: 0 Reply 106, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3496 times:
Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 104): The S-CO flight attendants had to move to the S-UA flight attendant's Union the bidding is probably different, their Seniority is generally LOWER and the Money trips are probably Fewer.
They don't have a CBA that covers both sides yet, so they haven't negotiated seniority and people are certainly not mixing with UA crews or getting different trips than they are used to.
blueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3126 posts, RR: 1 Reply 107, posted (11 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3282 times:
Quoting nycdave (Reply 83): Consumer Reports rated UA, in the last year before integration, at the bottom of the heap for US air carriers. CO was in the middle of the pack...
And pretty much the same for two other well-read industry surveys, JD Power and Wichita State, except for the last AQR before the merger. UA was 12 out of 15, right behind CO at 11. Pre-merger blues?
Quoting aviasian (Reply 84): some of the best inflight service I have experienced on Continental came from middle-aged ladies
From what I've read on flyertalk, pmUA was the best airline in the entire galaxy, pmCO was the depths of hell and the combined entity is now Armageddon run by the King of Hell and his minions.
That and "everything's fine, stop being so over-entitled."
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 79): Not young or pretty enough for the 'tight' standards of a chauvinist market? FIRED.
Right, because age and degree of prettiness are the only differentiating factors in the quality of service everywhere in the world except in the good ol' US of A.
kordcj From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 75 posts, RR: 0 Reply 108, posted (11 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3000 times:
Having been an avid flyer of both UA and CO for years, I think the fundamental difference between them was that United always made me at home when boarding their aircraft. Like a guest in a good friend's home so to speak. In all the times I have flown CO, I never once felt that. Not to say the service wasn't great, but the folks over at CO just seemed to be by the book and doing their job. I never got that "welcome to our home" feeling that the UA flight crews gave. The amenities may have been anemic in comparison to CO, but the treatment by the flight crews more than made up for it in all my experiences. Whether it was an F or Y class experience.
Since the merger, I've flown both about equal, and the CO flight crews have taken the approach of the disgruntled DMV worker. It actually takes something away from the flight experience. The CO ground workers seem to be taking the merger in greater strides. They always seem cheerful, eager to help, and glad to get me on my way. The PMUA gate agents have become more US like lately. I haven't seen a friendly one since Jan 2011. I hope things improve for the better as the new UA has so much potential to be a great global carrier. I don't really want to switch alliances, and if US (whom I don't mind flying) leaves for OW, I'm hosed. I guess there's DL, but SkyTeam? /shudder.
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
T5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 421 posts, RR: 1 Reply 109, posted (11 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2879 times:
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 41): - Have you looked at the blankets lately? They are reminiscent of hospital gauze. Why even bother?
LOL! We've always had cheap blankets. The only thing they were good for was to cover a wet seat on a tug or beltloader .
Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 71): At the end of the day, in most ways, we are still operating as two very different airlines.
That in a sense is unfortunately true.
Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 78): Let me prface my comment,by saying I 100% love my job and what I do.
That said...I can't speak for the othe work groups,but mine is as short-handed as they come. And has been for a least 3-4 years now. Where they are going to cut 1,300 will be amazing to see. Because IMO we need to HIRE some people.
If the idea is to squeeze more profits out of less people during the busy summer season, it is an bad idea. The beat the mule until he gives out way of managing is not working. That may why some on the CO side may be grumpy.
I see why coworkers turn flights ASAP here in IAH with bare bones staffing.
I don't know what GlenTiltons management style was at Pre-merger United. Perhaps sUA think they got a Gordon Bethune in Jeff with his CEO exchanges and employees able to come out meet him and ask questions throughout the system.
But on the CO side............ Not to say he is a bad man....but he is no Bethune certainly.
That is true as well in EWR. We have to turn 'em shorthanded. And with new procedures don't help the situation either. PMUA has more people working their flights. Don't know what it's like on the UA side, but I can't see where people are going to get cut from. Unless normal attrition takes place, we haven't hired in a while.
Jeff ain't Gordon (sorry about the pun), and that's a fact.
Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 94): Quoting RDH3E (Reply 90):
I will just say if you think you have bare bones staffing now... Be thankful that we moved to a hybrid of UA/CO staffing standards because PM-UA was even leaner Folks at ORD at thanking their lucky stars for a few extra folks hanging around.
What exactly were you all doing at ORD ? The impression here was that you all had at least 4 people on a plane.
Right now more and more flights at IAH are being turned up and down with 3 people. Mostly 738's. Especiallly 737-700's, 735's and 739's since it has the carpet. Up and down. If you can get someone to help you out,great.
Two agents and a lead.
I think it will burn out your workforce.
Turning 800's and 752's every day like that will wear you down. UA's staffing is much different. So are their planes. The nesting system on their birds helps a lot. We don't have that luxury on the 800. Or the 752 with over 12,000 coming off and going up. Pray for a an extra agent to help out.
Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 95): Because it's now UA. Everytime something is not right, it's not the sUA employees who are the problem and it's not the sCO employees. We're all UA employees now
And that's the bottom line in all of this. WE have to work damn hard to create a culture and make this a much better place to come to work and do our jobs. IMHO, it thing it will get better when EVERY workgroup is bidding and working side by side.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
N505FX From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 191 posts, RR: 0 Reply 110, posted (11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2425 times:
Here's my observation, just having completed the two follow trips:
LAX-OGG - pmUA 767-300, LAX based crew (referred to below as OGG)
LAX-HNL - pmCO 757-300, EWR based crew (referred to below as HNL)
OGG Boarding - Hawaiian music playing, hawaiian welcome video playing - most flight attendants slightly older and many wearing hawiian themed aprons. All very warm in welcoming you onboard - the "aloha" used a lot - predeparture cocktails served - mai tais offered. In general a light, warm feeling and it is was reflected in the way the passengers treated the crew.
HNL - Pretty much like boarding any other domestic flight - nothing special to denote it was a Hawaii trip - just the normal welcome, would you like a cocktail. Not bad, just very mechanical and cold for those of us that have gotten used to the warm aloha spirit with the west coast based older ladies at UAL that flew HNL all the time.
OGG - In Flight - prompt and courteous service - like your auntie was serving you - pushing the Mai Tais a litle hard, but warm over all. It might have been a breach of protocal but it seemed like the purser was still using the manifest way of taking dinner orders. Half way to Hawaii game was explained and played and the Hawaiian Islands pre-arrival videos were played.
HNL - In flight - normal domestic cabin service, but a lot of hanging out in the galley too. No Half Way to Hawaii, no Hawaii arrival videos, no use of the word Aloha. Perfectly adequate service, but not warm and personal in any way.
Just slight nuances in the onboard experience, they both met a level of criteria, but the pmUA folks seem to put more pride in their Hawaii service.
blueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3126 posts, RR: 1 Reply 112, posted (11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2264 times:
Before UA and CO were merged into a single certificate, the parent company (United Continental Holdings Inc) had two subsidiaries, United Airlines Inc (aka sUA) and Continental Airlines Inc. (aka sCO).
The crews and planes are still split based on which subsidiary they came from, so they continue to be referred to as sUA and sCO.
nws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 781 posts, RR: 0 Reply 113, posted (11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2150 times:
Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 52): Where I found the difference was the Int crew v Domestic, as if they went to 2 different training schools.
I don't know about sUA but at sCO we all attend the same training. There are separate bases for domestic and international, and ISM do receive minimal additional training.
Quoting N505FX (Reply 64): His email address isn't a hard one to figure out - he has a first (full, not nickname).last name and he works at United
Not quite, that address routes to his staff.
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 69): Bethune can be highly regarded as one of the most effective airline CEOs, but the sense of employee smugness started with him and the new hires during his tenure. They had too much pride for their own good and now quite a few of PMCO staff are behaving like children instead of playing ball and getting with the program -- like how you described on your flight to LIS.
I don't think we are behaving like children. Instead, we don't know what to say to customers as the service cuts continue. Sure, we have pride in CO and won many industry awards for excellent service, but there is no program to get with. We are not a merged airline yet and there are still two groups, sCO and sUA. I know is sucks for the customers, but the crews cannot fix it.
Most of us attempt to be consistent with policy and provide the level of service we are instructed to. However, we don't receive much instruction in the overall product and are instead forced to read through numerous memos about small changes on a constant basis. I actually think all FAs need to spend 2-3 days being trained in exactly how management wants service conducted. It would provide a more consistent product and I know I would prefer to know what we are supposed to do instead of interpreting it from a memo and then learning later that wasn't really what was meant.
termbewr From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 57 posts, RR: 0 Reply 114, posted (11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1786 times:
I haven't real all the posts on this topic, however I have a few observations for comment. As a New Yorker, EWR/LGA based flight attendants are not the most cheeful people. I attribute this to two factors:
1. The culture in the NY/NJ area is very "To the point, no small talk, no fluff".
2. Many passengers coming out of the NY/NJ area can be very demanding if not outright unpleasant. Rightfully so, the FA's can become a bit defensive and guarded. You can only kick a dog so many times before it bites.
Through the years, I have found the most pleasant F/A's are from areas other than the Northeast, such as IAH, CLE, SFO, etc.
All that being said, perhaps the person beginning this post experienced differently based F/As. Although it shouldn't matter, it really does make a difference. F/A's based in the NY/NJ area really should get hazard pay!!!!!
tommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6173 posts, RR: 9 Reply 115, posted (11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1519 times:
Quoting T5towbar (Reply 109): Jeff ain't Gordon (sorry about the pun), and that's a fact.
Quoting nws2002 (Reply 113): Sure, we have pride in CO and won many industry awards for excellent service, but there is no program to get with.
Well the COdbaUA won't be winning too many awards this year I can tell you that. Regardless how many awards were won, it was a tacky PR tactic to continue to spark loyalty by the already loyal NJ and Houston fanbase. UA won awards too but they didn't use them in advertisements. Prior to the merger, you could read about them in their corporate overview which was often found in the seat pockets of the First class cabin during Q4.
Quoting termbewr (Reply 114): 2. Many passengers coming out of the NY/NJ area can be very demanding if not outright unpleasant. Rightfully so, the FA's can become a bit defensive and guarded. You can only kick a dog so many times before it bites.
Probably because living in the NY/NJ area absolutely sucks? If you hate your life, you will likely hate your job. I've noticed the IAD crews aren't all that much better either.
Quoting nws2002 (Reply 113): We are not a merged airline yet and there are still two groups, sCO and sUA. I know is sucks for the customers, but the crews cannot fix it.
They should suck it up. The airline is called United and therefore crews should abide to the airline they are employed by.
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
Sulley From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 502 posts, RR: 3 Reply 116, posted (11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1499 times:
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 115): Well the COdbaUA won't be winning too many awards this year I can tell you that. Regardless how many awards were won, it was a tacky PR tactic to continue to spark loyalty by the already loyal NJ and Houston fanbase. UA won awards too but they didn't use them in advertisements. Prior to the merger, you could read about them in their corporate overview which was often found in the seat pockets of the First class cabin during Q4.
Do you know how many companies use awards in their advertising? I'm not a fan of CO's old advertising (it was tired) but I'm just sayin'...
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 115): They should suck it up. The airline is called United and therefore crews should abide to the airline they are employed by.
They're working under two seperate contracts. How can they "suck it up?"
IAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4723 posts, RR: 25 Reply 117, posted (11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1489 times:
Quoting HNL-Jack (Reply 97): What's even more perplexing is that it is the CO employees and it is their CEO who is running the airline. You would think they would be doing everything possible to support him and the CO management team who moved into Willis Tower if they want to make a statement of how good CO really was.
I don't believe there are too many of the CO folks who actually liked that CEO from day one nor were glad to support the office, they simply dealt with it.
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 115): The airline is called United and therefore crews should abide to the airline they are employed by.
There is no cross fleeting being done as yet, so for operational purposes they are still PMCO aircraft being operated by PMCO crews and PMUA aircraft being operated by PMUA crews so you really still have separate entities working under one name.
Not all may like it however, there is one employer.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
T5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 421 posts, RR: 1 Reply 119, posted (11 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1335 times:
Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 117): I don't believe there are too many of the CO folks who actually liked that CEO from day one nor were glad to support the office, they simply dealt with it.
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 115):
The airline is called United and therefore crews should abide to the airline they are employed by.
There is no cross fleeting being done as yet, so for operational purposes they are still PMCO aircraft being operated by PMCO crews and PMUA aircraft being operated by PMUA crews so you really still have separate entities working under one name.
Not all may like it however, there is one employer.
True. But it's not that easy when you are not working in unison. Some one on the board said to suck it up. Well you're looking at this situation from the outside in. You can't just suck it up when things are still separate. You can only go about your job and do your best for the customers, and deal with the situations that may arise on a daily basis.
After all, there are NO joint contracts into place yet.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
onebadlt123 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20 posts, RR: 0 Reply 120, posted (11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1264 times:
As a current "New United" employee, and a former sCO Houston HQ based employee (I now am Chicago HQ based), I can give a little perspective from a unique position. With the merger, there were some issues with the company and where it was headed. It was boosted somewhat when the proposed 2008 merger with UA was nixed by our then CEO. Had the merger happened then, we all feel the roles would have been reversed.
Everyone was worried when Jeff took over, we all knew his specialty was mergers and acquisitions. Then out of nowhere, we got the news we were moving north. Nobody wanted this merger (at least in the various departments I interact with). It was a huge blow to us and we were scared. Over time though, we were promised gold and riches with our move. Instead what we saw was "Talent Selection" pools and interviews for once long time sCOHQ employees just begging not to lose their jobs. I heard people scream and cry on a daily basis as they were escorted off the grounds because they were not selected. How are surrounding employees supposed to react? Accept? It's hard on the emotions watching good friends and great employees being told... "Nope, not you since we have have a nUA in your place"
One manager during a meeting with Jeff asked him why did you make this decision without input from the company employees? Nobody wanted it she said and people cheered. Couple weeks later, she was let go.
When the mayor of Houston called Jeffs people, all they got with hang-ups and unreturned phone calls.
This merger has become and absolute cluster of a mess from the top down. Single ops certificate was pushed and pushed with departments getting little to no training. At most we got "modules" and "power points" and "tests" but all of them were thrown together, with little to no information regarding policy changes. We are all left to fend for ourselves, and over time to stop caring. When I used to have 1 maybe 2 people to report to, and get answers from I now have 8. But hey, Jeff got his bonus from completing the single ops certificate on time, so that's great right!?
Our group was promised fools gold and a smooth seamless transition. In the end, we had the rug yanked out from under us and now we just have to "sit and wait" while "issues are being worked out" (you dont know how many times I have ready that in emails)
I am not sure how things were on the nUA side, but down south there is a lot more behind the scenes than what the general public sees in painted airplanes and customer improvement videos on our flights. All departments are being affected, and from everybody I talk to, there is always that *sigh* "it is what it is" attitude.
I completely appreciate what you are dealing with but what is the alternative? I have been through multiple management changes in the past 10 years as well as being involuntarily reassigned to a different division of the company with new responsibilities. You have two choices: either embrace it and be enthusiastic or quit. I have opted to embrace the changes and I can tell you that I have had an incredible and fulfilling 10 + years. Once you let go of "what was" and look to the future, there is great opportunity. The most challenging part for me was putting my personal feelings aside and looking at the bigger picture (like a CEO). Once I let down my guard and listened (logically not emotionally) to why the changes were being made, it all made sense.
I have found the UA (CO) crew through DEN & IAH are great. EWR SUCKS a BIG ONE!! Not sure why other than the typical (New York stigma). They need to be thankful they still have a job. When two airlines merge someone always takes it in the rear end. Ask people of FL, NW, HP, TW & YX. Especially when positions over lap.
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Not young or pretty enough for the 'tight' standards of a chauvinist market? FIRED. Let's see those 'top' airlines and their pretty staff deal with that which US airlines deal with. But only after they've done it 30 years! You've been around long enough to know that there are extenuating circumstances as to why the airlines are different.
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