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Report Telegraaf, Cleavage Denied On WN  
User currently offlinebillreid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1005 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9517 times:

Just read on the Telegraaf.nl that WN had another problem with a woman who was wearing a summer dress. They old her that she had to cover her breasts or she ouldn't board. She got on and the guy behind her had a condon on his tee-shirt which was no problem apparently.

This is one sick airline.
It one thing to make bad planning and merger decisions.
It's a whole other thing to allow condoms on tee-shirts and deny women boarding who show cleavage.

She can sit beside me in her summer dress any time I fly.


Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebillreid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9510 times:

Link in Dutch.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/1...ecollet_te_diep_voor_vlucht__.html



Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlinecomair25 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9442 times:

These threads on airlines denying pax boarding are getting so old. First off what do we know about the guy with the condom on his shirt? Do we know the message on the shirt? Did you know we have t-shirts and bracelts here in the states that clearly state "I love boobies". They are for breast cancer awareness. I know I have one. Secondly. This women was asked to cover up her cleavage. Is this one of those just because somebody else has something that "you" don't think is appropriate makes it inappropriate. WN crew apparently had no issue. So what's the big deal? People are upset because they don't get to fly next to a women showing lots of cleavage? Come on..

[Edited 2012-06-18 21:27:07]

User currently offlineremcor From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9378 times:

This really makes me mad. I mean it is completely unacceptable that there is a thread started about denying boarding to a woman with too much cleavage without a gratuitous cleavage photo of the woman in question. What is this country coming to?

User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9314 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9243 times:

I mean, this was at Las Vegas. So what, if that had happened at Amarillo TX or somewhere in the bible belt, but LAS and probably on a flight to the Siicon Valley?

I love Dutch "te diep voor vlucht" - replace the V in vlucht with an F and you get the German word for "run". . People should run away from that airline.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8445 times:

It's the shirt I find offensive, geez. "Pardon me, miss - 1995 called, they'd like their flannel back."

I would encourage anyone who is bent out of shape about this young woman's plight to simply not fly Southwest under any circumstance, even if their fares are cheaper or their flights are more convenient for your particular trip. I can't think of a single realistic situation in which one would have no choice but to betray one's principles and fly Southwest, so let the market work its magic.



What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8371 times:




The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3970 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8198 times:
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So I read the entire article and some of the comments, and all I get from this thread is: Nordstrom has bra fitters?!? Didn't even know that was a legit profession.

Southwest kicking someone else out because they don't look right? Big yawn. I'm starting to think they borrowed a page from MOL and do this every so often to promote their family-friendly atmosphere without actually having to pay for all the exposure.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineNBGSkyGod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 811 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7944 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 10):
So I read the entire article and some of the comments, and all I get from this thread is: Nordstrom has bra fitters?!? Didn't even know that was a legit profession.

I know what my retirement job is going to be!!



"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7820 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 10):
So I read the entire article and some of the comments, and all I get from this thread is: Nordstrom has bra fitters?!? Didn't even know that was a legit profession.

I have absolutely no idea how I know this or where I saw it but yes, apparently the vast majority of women don't wear the correct bra size (and for some reason this does not cause any sort of "This bra doesn't fit right" reaction among the affected ladies), and stores like Nordstrom and Victoria's Secret are cashing in on this epidemic by helping women get fitted for the correct size bra (so they can buy lots of them).

Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 11):

I know what my retirement job is going to be!!

In a world populated by confused supermodels wondering why their bras are so tight/loose/whatever yes this would be lovely but go to the mall and look about you, there might be unpleasant situations.

So back to the story (and to hopefully make this post relevant to the topic at hand) it seems that this lady wasn't kicked off the plane or denied boarding but was allowed to board? Making this a story about... absolutely nothing?

I'd also be curious to know if it was a male or female WN employee who told the passenger to cover herself. Just wondering, that's all.

Actually does the story have any real information beyond this one young lady's account of what happened? And we're supposed to trust her take on things because...



What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7805 times:

Can't really see what's offensive about this, apart from the rope thing and the bad shirt and the silly scarf but really can't see the grounds for kicking her off the flight, unless FA's are being told to do so when Southwest wants some publicity...

User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7763 times:

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 13):
Can't really see what's offensive about this, apart from the rope thing and the bad shirt and the silly scarf but really can't see the grounds for kicking her off the flight,

But it's not at all clear to me that she was kicked off the flight, it seems as though she flew as scheduled.

"That's no consolation for Avital, who told us she'll never fly Southwest again..." - Wow, I'm sure at WN headquarters they're crunching the numbers to see if the airline can survive this setback. "She'll never fly Southwest again [until it's like $5 cheaper than another airline and/or a non-stop vs. a connection]" is probably more like it...

[Edited 2012-06-19 11:16:14]

And if your name is Avital does asking Jezebel to not use your last name really offer you that much anonymity? If you're as bored at work as I am today go on Facebook and search "Avital" and you'll find this young lady.


[Edited 2012-06-19 11:21:59]


What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7693 times:

Quoting remcor (Reply 3):
I mean it is completely unacceptable that there is a thread started about denying boarding to a woman with too much cleavage without a gratuitous cleavage photo of the woman in question.



I normally would agree with you and tjwgrr however; in this particular case rather have avoided the picture!      



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7306 times:

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 14):
Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 13):
Can't really see what's offensive about this, apart from the rope thing and the bad shirt and the silly scarf but really can't see the grounds for kicking her off the flight,

But it's not at all clear to me that she was kicked off the flight, it seems as though she flew as scheduled.

"That's no consolation for Avital, who told us she'll never fly Southwest again..." - Wow, I'm sure at WN headquarters they're crunching the numbers to see if the airline can survive this setback. "She'll never fly Southwest again [until it's like $5 cheaper than another airline and/or a non-stop vs. a connection]" is probably more like it..

It doesn't say specifically that she kicked off but it does imply that the staff did not want to let her on until she covered up. I wonder if WN employs a lot of former Saudia employees???


User currently offlineworkhorse From France, joined Jul 2005, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 14):
"That's no consolation for Avital, who told us she'll never fly Southwest again..." - Wow, I'm sure at WN headquarters they're crunching the numbers to see if the airline can survive this setback. "She'll never fly Southwest again [until it's like $5 cheaper than another airline and/or a non-stop vs. a connection]" is probably more like it...

Well... I, for one, tend to avoid flying WN for that very reason. Because you know, this is not the first time we hear stories like that about them, right?

I mean, of course, let's be realistic, if I happen to need to go from A to B with the only reasonable choice being Southwest (for example, all other carriers being twice the price, or twice the travel time...), I will fly with them; BUT if Southwest is just one of several choices, I will prefer another airline.

You see, I am sure that other airlines happen to have people dressed in a multitude of different ways every day on board of their aircraft. But, for some reason, we don't read stories like that about DL, UA, US or B6 (we do about AA though). Maybe, because they are more tolerant. Maybe because they know how to ask to "cover up" or to hide a controversial picture / phrase on a tee-shirt without offending people. Maybe because when such kind of conflicts happen (and they probably do), they know how to fix this before the infuriated person goes to the media.

So, the question is not that much about what happened on this particular WN flight, but about what image does this airline want to have with the flying public (such as me). I, for one, do not like this image.


[Edited 2012-06-19 14:06:55]

User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 576 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5946 times:

Well, this is a one sided story, but imagine if she did not have the shirt on.

" Southwest spokesperson Christi McNeill told us that the company offered Avital an apology and a refund "as a gesture of goodwill," but that their Contract of Carriage allows them to refuse to transport a customer whose clothing is lewd, obscene, or patently offensive."

I have seen a dress that looked like that and there is no back to it. You could have excessive mammalary movement or lack of coverage of the mammalary glands.

Quoting remcor (Reply 3):
This really makes me mad. I mean it is completely unacceptable that there is a thread started about denying boarding to a woman with too much cleavage without a gratuitous cleavage photo of the woman in question. What is this country coming to?

That is funny right there....


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22911 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5946 times:

Quoting workhorse (Reply 17):
So, the question is not that much about what happened on this particular WN flight, but about what image does this airline want to have with the flying public (such as me). I, for one, do not like this image.

I live in a big WN city and fly WN a lot, mainly for the same reasons you do (though that leads me on to WN more than it might lead you on to WN, because there are many routes from my hometown where WN makes the most sense). My personal experience - which I trust far more than any journalist - is that WN employees are, with very few exceptions professional and customer-focused. What poor experiences have you had with WN?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5822 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 19):
My personal experience - which I trust far more than any journalist - is that WN employees are, with very few exceptions professional and customer-focused.

I also have had great experiences with WN and most other airlines - and of course, people who fly an airline and have even a remarkably pleasant experience generally don't rush to the media to tell the tale (and best I can tell from my reading of this Jezebel site, for example, they are not in the habit of reporting "Hey, something nice and unironic happened today!" kind of stories). And even in the event of a negative experience, in my opinion it takes a very, um, special kind of quite self-regarding personality to make a big to-do of it - i.e. most normal people tend to not feel that an awkward encounter with an airline employee has some sort of greater meaning for the entire world.



What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlineworkhorse From France, joined Jul 2005, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5822 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 19):
What poor experiences have you had with WN?

I never had! What I'm talking about is the brand image. And when I have to choose, for example, between WN and AS (flying out of SJC, which is the place from where I fly the most when I am in the US), all other things being equal, brand image is what makes me choose AS and not WN.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22911 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5745 times:

Quoting workhorse (Reply 21):
And when I have to choose, for example, between WN and AS (flying out of SJC, which is the place from where I fly the most when I am in the US), all other things being equal, brand image is what makes me choose AS and not WN.

I guess I don't understand why that is a rational choice. WN is many times larger than AS. Of course WN will have many times more crazy stories than AS and, as SouthernDC9 points out, the good experiences don't get reported.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineworkhorse From France, joined Jul 2005, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5745 times:

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 20):
most normal people tend to not feel that an awkward encounter with an airline employee has some sort of greater meaning for the entire world

Sure. But, again, why almost every time we read such a story in the media, it happens to be about WN? These strange people who "feel that an awkward encounter with an airline employee has some sort of greater meaning for the entire world", they surely fly other airlines as well, don't they?


User currently offlineworkhorse From France, joined Jul 2005, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5630 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):
I guess I don't understand why that is a rational choice.

Brand image is what comes into play in a competitive environment when you have more then one rational choice. For example, when you buy a laptop and you have a Hewlett-Packard and a Dell with the same features and priced the same, what makes you choose the former ot the latter is the brand image. Companies have to care a lot about brand image, that's why they have those huge marketing and PR departments.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):
WN is many times larger than AS. Of course WN will have many times more crazy stories than AS

Okay, Delta is larger then WN, but, for some reason, I have never read about someone being kicked off a Delta flight because her boobs are too big.

[Edited 2012-06-19 14:52:40]

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7416 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5697 times:

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 6):

how the heck did you make that???   

Quoting workhorse (Reply 17):
I mean, of course, let's be realistic, if I happen to need to go from A to B with the only reasonable choice being Southwest (for example, all other carriers being twice the price, or twice the travel time...), I will fly with them; BUT if Southwest is just one of several choices, I will prefer another airline.

I think WN overplays their supposed "importance" a lot which gives them this entitlement to deny passengers flying rights.

But as someone above said, these threads are getting a little old. usually what happens is someone complains to a major news company, the airline pays a settlement/gives them a free flight, yadda yadda yadda, it's done, nobody hears from them again.

Quoting workhorse (Reply 24):
Brand image is what comes in a competitive environment when you have more then one rational choice.

For me it's reputation, service, price, then image. For example: If AA can give me a cheap flight from CVG or PHX to somewhere that DL doesn't serve, despite all I feel against AA, I'll fly them for that route.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22911 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5642 times:

Quoting workhorse (Reply 24):
Okay, Delta is larger then WN, but, for some reason, I have never read about someone being kicked off a Delta flight because her boobs are too big.

All I can offer on that point is that you need to read more carefully.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5506 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5441 times:

Quoting billreid (Thread starter):
She can sit beside me in her summer dress any time I fly.

Are you sure....? 
Quoting akelley728 (Reply 7):
pics of the woman in question here:

You know, looking at the pic, her boob or nipple could have been hanging out. I've seen shoulder bag straps pull tops every which way as people throw them over their shoulder.

So why do some here not just think that her boob/nipple was showing?

Quoting workhorse (Reply 24):
Okay, Delta is larger then WN,

Actually Southwest is larger when just using domestic numbers *(which is really all Southwest is for now).

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineJayBird From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5118 times:
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All airlines have policies which affect dress and behavior. Unless a specific incident gets released to the media - you just never hear about it. On Southwest's new TV program "On The Fly" they're very clear that they will not tolerate any clothing that they believe is offensive to the crew and/or other passengers. They've made people who had swearing on their shirts either change shirts or turn them inside-out, they've had people cover up who they felt were "overexposed," they've pulled passengers off the planes or just refused to allow them on the planes if they've clearly had too much to drink. Passengers have mouthed off, called their lawyers (on camera), etc., - but the bottom line is - airlines have the right to determine their policies and enforce them. When possible they do work with the passengers to correct the situation. Of course, if you're just flat-out drunk there's not much they can do.

Once you get "in the tube" - whatever airline you're on - it's their rules. Period. You don't have to like them. It's a controlled enviornment and they have the right, and final say, about what they feel is acceptable or nonacceptable. You don't have to agree with their policies - that's your choice. But if you don't comply with the policies - they will deny you boarding or pull you off the flight - that is their choice.

Southwest seems to make it into the media a lot which is curious because I'm sure they're not the only one that is enforcing their policies.


User currently offlinedon0245 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4809 times:
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WN give me a friggin' break! I have never & would never fly with you regardless of all this crap! Call Tammy Fae Baker back please! Love ya'!

User currently offlinekl5147 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2979 times:

WN has probably forgotten how they did their advertisements in the 70's
  



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