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ANA Swaps 8's For 9's  
User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 711 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16983 times:

Hey folks,

I just read where ANA has opted to swap a number of their 787-8's for 787-9's. The frames that in question were to be delivered next year. The link below provides more insight to this. They must think that the -9 is a better fit for their long haul operation.


http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20120619/BLOG01/120619909

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16960 times:

It'll be interesting to see where they fly the -9's. Could they possibly visit JFK? How close to 777-300ER are the 787-9's?

User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12856 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16966 times:

Interesting:

Quote:

With the change, ANA has ordered a total of 36 787-8s, including those delivered, and 19 787-9 aircraft.

So not a huge swing.

Maybe now the QF guy can get a few earlier birds and quit his moaning.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31261 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16968 times:
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Yes, NH made a partial switch of 15 frames a couple of years back and at least some of those planes will be used as direct replacements for their domestic 777-200 fleet as the 787-9 and 777-200 have effectively the same cabin length.

Looks like they're going to use them to start replacing their international 777-200 fleet, as well.


User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 711 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16736 times:

Quote:
Looks like they're going to use them to start replacing their international 777-200 fleet, as well.

How old are those T7-200's?


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16587 times:

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 4):
Quote:
Looks like they're going to use them to start replacing their international 777-200 fleet, as well.

How old are those T7-200's?

I believe they took delivery of a couple more PW4090 772ERs very recently.

Their international 772ERs are not in need of replacement. Their 772A and 773As will go first, I'd have thought. Got to be getting up there on cycles, been hammered to death.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinestarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16315 times:

That would probably account for the 'teens frames that will be going to Lion then.


Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31261 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16259 times:
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Quoting starrion (Reply 6):
That would probably account for the 'teens frames that will be going to Lion then.

LN11, LN12, LN13, LN14 and LN18 are all in long-term storage, so I could see the first four being released back to Boeing for re-assignment.


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3481 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16125 times:

Quote:
ANA said it has switched an order for four 787-8 aircraft, which were to be delivered beginning in 2013, to an order for four of Boeing's larger version of the Dreamliner, the 787-9.

This also implies deferring 4 787-8s to whenever the -9s kan be delivered


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15908 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 8):

I think it's more an implication that NH don't want those very early frames based on performance?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinestarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15672 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 9):
I think it's more an implication that NH don't want those very early frames based on performance?

I think ANA has been aware for some time of the performance of the



Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5155 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15638 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
Looks like they're going to use them to start replacing their international 777-200 fleet, as well.

ANA has 217 and 306 seat versions of the 77E . Proportionally they could supplement their 158-seat 788's with something like 204 seat 789's. This might be the attraction .


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 15552 times:

Quoting starrion (Reply 10):
I think ANA has been aware for some time of the performance of the

And have likely been negotiating with Boeing all that time to not take those aircraft.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31261 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 15449 times:
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Quoting ikramerica (Reply 9):
I think it's more an implication that NH don't want those very early frames based on performance?

They've taken the three worst frames around - LN7, LN8 and LN9 - so I see this more as a combination of NH starting to grow international and needing larger frames and also accepting that Boeing will not have the other frames (LN11-14) ready before they could get new-build 787-9s. And for Boeing, they have customers willing to wait for those frames.

So while it's not true serendipity, NH and Boeing are both making lemonade out of lemons.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5155 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15184 times:

The 789 at about 126t OEW should be good for about 41t payload based on a HND-FRA scheduled time of 12hr 10min. Fuel burn would be about 71t. Its cargo space permits a good payload with the premium cabin layout that ANA use on many of their international routes.

User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 798 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15012 times:

In an other thread not so long ago, there was discussed that ANA was sooo happy with the 788.....oh well....

This choice is very logical though (CASM e.g.).


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12856 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 14936 times:

I don't know about you, but I'm at sixes and sevens on ANA's -8s and -9s!  


Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineebj1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 14936 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 15):
In an other thread not so long ago, there was discussed that ANA was sooo happy with the 788.....oh well....

I don't see anything in this thread that suggests ANA isn't happy with the -8. As has been suggested earlier in this thread, they need more of the -9s. They're still taking a goodly number of the -8s.



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineKDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 14407 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
Their international 772ERs are not in need of replacement. Their 772A and 773As will go first, I'd have thought. Got to be getting up there on cycles, been hammered to death.

Maximum utilization for maximum profit, one could presume.

I believe Gigneil and Stitch predicted some time ago that the -9 would end up being the prefered bird for such use.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7859 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13358 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
LN11, LN12, LN13, LN14 and LN18 are all in long-term storage, so I could see the first four being released back to Boeing for re-assignment.

Weren't a few of these going to LA ?



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31261 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12968 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
Weren't a few of these going to LA?

LAN are tasked LN10 and LN16 and I believe in the 787 production thread a post was made that the airline intends to take them.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1722 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12370 times:

They would be looking at 2Q of 2014 after NZ for theses birds then, as long as the 787-9 stays on track now.  


CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5768 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12344 times:

Quoting starrion (Reply 6):
That would probably account for the 'teens frames that will be going to Lion then.

Hmm? Where did this rumor come from? First I've heard of it.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31261 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12193 times:
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Quoting seabosdca (Reply 22):
Hmm? Where did this rumor come from? First I've heard of it.

Batik Air, the long-haul subsidiary of Lion Air, placed an order for five 787-8s and it has been reported that they will come from the LN10-LN19 block currently parked at PAE. The order was firmed last week and reported on Boeing's O&D page, attributed to Lion Air.

[Edited 2012-06-19 16:20:05]

User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5768 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12124 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
Batik Air, the long-haul subsidiary of Lion Air, placed an order for five 787-8s

Thanks! I saw that part...

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
and it has been reported that they will come from the LN10-LN19 block currently parked at PAE

...but not that part.

An interesting development.


25 ikramerica : And may have said "no mas" and negotiated to reject frames in the teens. The real question becomes will other carriers want them, or are they some mo
26 Stitch : Batik Air is evidently good for five, which would be all of NH's frames.
27 YULWinterSkies : How close based on what? Range? Capacity? Capacity-wise, nowhere close, rather near the A330-300.
28 Burkhard : About 3/4 in size, so far away. Near to the 777-200ER, but still slightly smaller, but if you put 9 abreast in the 789 you can get the same number of
29 CXB77L : NH's 77Ws are configured in a 215-seat and 262-seat configurations (will be reduced to 212 and 250 seats respectively with the imminent introduction
30 sunrisevalley : To get over 8000nm with the standard 285 seat configuration the OEW has to be about 120t. This seems unlikely at EIS. The usual ratio of MTOW/OEW of
31 KDAYflyer : Indeed. I wonder how many early frames are likely to run into this scenario? Have any other carriers rejected the earlier frames who have been picked
32 Fyano773 : @Stitch, Do you happen to know about the slots or leases cancelled by Air Seychelles? IIRC, they were due to delivery by mid 2013 from ILFC. Regards..
33 Post contains images lightsaber : Sorry to nitpick, but ANA was offered the prototypes that Boeing later put on their books. So not quite the worst of the 787s. But close. I suspect t
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