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Bombardier CSeries Update  
User currently offlineCRJ900X From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 197 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 33784 times:

An interesting article from the Financial Post regarding the testing for the Bombardier CSeries. The article also discusses the change in forecast of delivery of airliners for the next twenty years from Bombardier.

Link: http://business.financialpost.com/20...-forecast-over-economic-headwinds/

It appears that the CSeries program is progressing quite well so far, but a lot can change as the plane starts to take shape.

Hopefully the first flight will take place at the end of 2012 as planned.

I am also hoping that at least some of the LOI's (Atlasjet & IFC) firm up their options by/at the Farnborough Air Show. As others have previously stated on the forum, airlines seem to be taking a wait-and-see approach and holding off ordering the plane to see if it delivers on all promises.

Cheers,
CRJ900X

145 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 33676 times:

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
Link: http://business.financialpost.com/20...-forecast-over-economic-headwinds/

It appears that the CSeries program is progressing quite well so far, but a lot can change as the plane starts to take shape.

Interesting. I am guessing that with BBD's previous experience managing a global supply chain for the GX family, they have sidestepped at least some of the issues that snagged Boeing on the 787.

I, too, hope for an on-time and successful first flight in December. I believe that may well crystallize some current options or generate new ones. Farnborough will be interesting to watch as well.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 32921 times:

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
Hopefully the first flight will take place at the end of 2012 as planned.

I think you'll see a roll out by the end of the year but no flight.


User currently offlinelollomz From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 32785 times:
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It seems that one new plane will be in time..... we'll what will happen about delays.

User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1675 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 32451 times:
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Who has ordered it? Aside from frontier.

User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 32455 times:

Quoting mad99 (Reply 2):
I think you'll see a roll out by the end of the year but no flight.

Agree. If their CIASTA test facility has not started testing yet, no way there's a first flight in 2012. Unless all the system suppliers have done an extraordinarily good job to deliver everything at the right maturity level and have been managed by BBD in a significantly better way than A&B do with theirs. And even then, it's unlikely. But roll out in 2012 and first flight Q1 2013 seems possible if system testing does indeed start in july.


User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 663 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 32343 times:

1:1 wood mock-up

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7082/7404252244_6535881ae0_b.jpg


User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 32087 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 4):
Who has ordered it? Aside from frontier.

Lufthansa, but the aircraft are supposed to be for Swiss to replace their Avro fleet



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 663 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 31936 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 4):
Who has ordered it? Aside from frontier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bombardier_CSeries_orders


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 31313 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting queb (Reply 6):
1:1 wood mock-up

A year ago I would have suggested get rid of 1:1 wook mock-ups. But after solving an issue where precision in the wood mock-up allowed a team to *really* understand how the issue arose (coupled with CATIA on our laptops as we inspected the wood model) really helped.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 28326 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 4):
Who has ordered it? Aside from frontier.

Frontier did not order the C Series. Republic Airways Holdings holds the order and has said it is not going to be operated by F9.

We can talk all day about the original intent of the order or the merits (lack thereof) of Republic having a c series order, but that's for a different discussion.



Good goes around!
User currently offlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 21 hours ago) and read 27499 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
1:1 wook mock-ups

i'm told the'll use this for training.


User currently offlineMEA330 From Lebanon, joined Aug 2002, 284 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 27319 times:

Korean Air have also ordered the C Series

[Edited 2012-06-21 01:24:25]

User currently offlineBE77 From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 17 hours ago) and read 27158 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 6):
wood mock-up

[

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
after solving an issue where precision in the wood mock-up allowed a team to *really* understand how the issue arose
Quoting mad99 (Reply 11):
i'm told the'll use this for training.

I can so easily see the value in this mock up. Excellent tool I am sure. I am in a completely different industry, and work in 3D modeling software all the time. But, when it comes time to explain things and to get people's heads wrapped around it, there are times where a physical model is just so useful. In the bad old days, there would be a 1:120 (1 inch = 10 feet) or 1:600 model in the conference room or lobby that was kept up to date by the local woodcarver / retired employee / high school shop teacher or whoever, and that model would be used regularly by planners and techies to explain to everyone what was going to be done. Now that I am one of the techies, there are days where I really wish we had such models, as it is usually more work to get the message accross using a printout or screen than it would be on a model. Some places are even using virtual immersive 3D or the 3D TV technology which help, but is still not quite the same as the model.



Tower, Affirmitive, gear is down and welded
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4478 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 26853 times:

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
airlines seem to be taking a wait-and-see approach and holding off ordering the plane to see if it delivers on all promises.

787 effect?


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6144 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 26849 times:

So far, this account of the CSeries briefing by Leehamnews seems to be the best available: De-risking CSeries but margin is gone.


Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 26415 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 14):
briefing by Leehamnews

Thanks for that.

Shenyang is a big problem for bd


User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1368 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 26351 times:

Don't forget that the CRJ-1000 was a year late.

User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 26123 times:

Quoting mad99 (Reply 16):
Shenyang is a big problem for bd

Based on what? Not on the article quoted, as far as I can tell.

Quoting ADent (Reply 17):
Don't forget that the CRJ-1000 was a year late.

That is true. I believe it was almost solely because of one problem with the rudder FBW, and I don't think they were putting nearly the resources into it that they would be for the CSeries, but that just goes to show how easily these things can slip.

I think it will be interesting to see. I can't bring myself to believe that it will fly in 2012, but these days it seems that if it's anything less than a year later, that would still be amazing!

JL



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 663 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 25423 times:

Picture of fwd fuse assembly line (Saint-Laurent facility in Montreal). Three already assembled:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5272/7420473036_5e80254173_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bombard...7420473036/sizes/l/in/photostream/


User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 25358 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
But after solving an issue where precision in the wood mock-up allowed a team to *really* understand how the issue arose (coupled with CATIA on our laptops as we inspected the wood model) really helped.

Not much precision in the mock-up, so probably not aimed at resolving DMU clashes.

Quoting mad99 (Reply 11):
i'm told the'll use this for training.

That makes sense. Judged by the presence of wooden assembly tooling, I'd guess this is for sorting out the final assembly process and for training FAL mechanics.


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 24947 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 19):
Picture of fwd fuse assembly line (Saint-Laurent facility in Montreal). Three already assembled:

I just don't get it, for the C series we see barebone forward fuselages, empty jigs and a wooden mockup + a system rig and this frame shall fly before end of year. For the A350 we see a 2/3 system equipped MSN001 forward section, we know where all other MSN001 sections are, we've seen then being produced and they are in system equipping since 4 months and this frame will fly next summer   .

Whatever Bombardier is saying it does not jive with me.



Non French in France
User currently offlineGregsterYUL From Canada, joined Oct 2011, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 24585 times:

I was at YMX today and Bombardier has started work on building new hangers at the CRJ plant..

I wonder if the first test flight will be from YUL or YMX? Bombardier is also still working on software and a flight simulator..


User currently offlineRickNRoll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 807 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 24448 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 6):
1:1 wood mock-up

Complete with wood scaffolding.


User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 663 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 24138 times:

Quoting GregsterYUL (Reply 22):
I wonder if the first test flight will be from YUL or YMX?

YMX of course. The prototype a/c will be assembled in a temporary FAL aside of the wood mock-up:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8026/7404252830_da0fcd646f_b.jpg


25 ckfred : A year or two ago during an earnings call, then AMR CEO Gerard Arpey made some favorable comments about the C-Series. That surprised a lot of people,
26 Dash9 : The C will be built in YMX. The only way to do a first flight from YUL would be to ferry the aircraft on a truck up to YUL, quite unlikely.
27 Post contains images lightsaber : The wood mockups I've worked with have the steel or aluminum mockup parts incorporated where precision is required. They end up being about half wood
28 ckfred : Let's assume that the A319s are configured for around 125 to 130 seats (below the MD-80 at 140 and well below the newer configuration for the 738 at
29 Post contains links planemaker : There is a new article in AW&ST - "Bombardier Races To Keep CSeries On Schedule". As we get closer to Farnborough there might be an increase in ar
30 lightsaber : Interesting concept... Let me think on that. I do see a need for a hundred seater at AA. Bombardier needs to have the CS100 out proving itself or the
31 BD500 : I saw an article dated June 22 from Flightglobal (Stephen Trimble), but cannot find on their site, it seems the CSeries is not considered for the 100
32 ckfred : BD500, Very interesting. The reason I remember Arpey's comments so well was that AA took forever to put in its order for 787s (which still doesn't con
33 bahadir : RAH has a shareholders meeting on Aug 1st. I think the questions about soon to be released scope at AMR and C series orders will come up during that..
34 ElpinDAB : Keep us posted. No offense, but I'll be very interested to see what Bedford says about this, if much at all. Edit: And as far as RAH's CSeries order,
35 mad99 : this one is all wood, no smoking in or near! that's what i'm told
36 ElpinDAB : In the US, only Republic is considering the CSeries. Republic is now grasping at new ideas to make their 40-strong CSeries order work. Why? I don't e
37 planemaker : I would have guessed that AA would be looking at the CRJ1000.
38 Post contains links and images ElpinDAB : This is NOT a regional aircraft, and should NOT be flown by US regional carriers.
39 ElpinDAB : I have no idea what AA execs are currently looking at, but the CRJ1000 currently busts the AA pilot contract. And why wouldn't the CR9 come first dur
40 ElpinDAB : I should make it clear that I'm talking specifically about US regional carriers. Continue discussion about CSeries developments, and sorry for any con
41 Post contains images r2rho : Indeed, the communication strategies of the A350 (very open) and CSeries (secrecy) are complete opposites. Hopefully the lack of CSeries news means t
42 JoeCanuck : Their sales policy reflects the state of the program at the moment. They probably offered good deals on the current sales to kick start the program t
43 Post contains links BD500 : I just saw a video from the cockpit with the Swiss CSeries pilot. It seems to be a very unique flight deck http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9KxdNvIFf8&
44 lollomz : Very interesting video, thanks for the link!
45 Post contains images copa330200 : great video no doubt this will be a great airplane for pasangers and pilots
46 Post contains images lightsaber : I've thought about your concept and realized that besides obviously turning scope clauses on their ear, it would be a *huge* competitive advantage to
47 Post contains images point2point : I don't really know if this is public or private info, or just something floating around here on a.net. But as a matter of discussion, I don't quite
48 Post contains links planemaker : I think that it is a bit more complex than it may appear and one has to dig a bit deeper. I wouldn't say that BBD "has absolutely no reason to be wor
49 Post contains images point2point : Okay, I believe you now, and I believed it then..... However, the basic elements of my post above still remain. I just don't see how any buyer of F9
50 JoeCanuck : (Quoting planemaker reply 48) This is the aviation industry. ..things are always more complex than can be described in a couple of sentences. As for t
51 planemaker : However, given the existing ~490 A319/73G backlog (or the other ~5000 NB orders, not to mention options, that could be switched to A319/73Gs if requi
52 JoeCanuck : Boeing and Airbus had thousands of planes in their backlog when BBD offered the C Series for sale so little has changed in that respect. They were alw
53 Post contains links planemaker : However, when BBD offered the CSeries for sale a quick look at the presentations from Farnborough, Paris, etc. illustrates just how much the CSeries
54 JoeCanuck : If these markets were 'off the market' then Boeing and Airbus would stop offering the -7 and 319. Since they are still for sale, either they are wasti
55 tdscanuck : Those models don't waste billions now because, unordered, they don't cost anything. The engineering is long done; to have the drawings sit on the she
56 ferpe : I think it would be interesting to define the point where Bombardier should start to worry, i.e. 1. what is the fuel cost and total cost advantage the
57 JoeCanuck : While they are mostly proven designs, the -7 upgrades aren't free. They still have to be engineered, (a process still continuing), applied and certif
58 miller22 : The CSeries has sold almost exactly the number of aircraft as the A320 and E-jets at this point in their programs. Everybody was saying those programs
59 Post contains links and images queb : In the last Bombardier Annual Report (published in the first quarter): http://ir.bombardier.com/en/financial-reports# [Edited 2012-07-03 15:13:40][Ed
60 ferpe : Thanks, the only thing I can comment on is the fuel consumption diff, 319 to 319neo shall mean a 15% improvement according to A, should leave more li
61 F9animal : Thanks for that! Am I the only one that finds these forward sections sexy looking?! I agree with you about the blowing smoke part. I think Bedford ne
62 planemaker : I didn't say that those markets were "off the market". What I said... "BBD showed DC-9, MD80, F100, BAe 146/Avro, 732/Classics & early A319 repla
63 Post contains images point2point : Let's just keep our fingers crossed that when/if a new buyer/owner is found for F9 (we really don't know what shape this "spinoff" of F9 by RAH is go
64 Post contains links planemaker : Latest update on program via Aviation Week: Bombardier Temporarily Reassigns Key CSeries Fuselage Work
65 Post contains images Aircellist : Smells like bad news ... Up to now, the communication sounds more 787-before-roll-out-ish or A380-before-the-$hit-hits-the-fan-ish than A350-ish...
66 queb : Aviation Week is really unnecessarily alarmist, those movements are planned since more than 18 months, I heard about it for the first time in march 20
67 planemaker : After the recent CSeries pre-Farborough aviation press day at BBD when none of this was mentioned, some may find it a bit alarming that the reassignm
68 yyztpa : ...Industry sources making themselves heard right before Farnborough.
69 kaneporta1 : Both the article and this post is alarmist. This happened in 2010. I hardly think this is news worth leaking, but using phrases like ""key fuselage w
70 Bravo1Six : The timing of "industry sources" is amazingly good, don't ya think?
71 Post contains links queb : I'm not the only one, read this line of Scott Hamilton (in the comments part of his blog) : "AvWeek may not have the same sourcing we have. As we note
72 miller22 : So planemaker, what do you want? Analysts were complaining that China was a risk, now "Industry Experts" who won't even give their names are complaini
73 Aircellist : Completely changes the perspective. Many thanks. ... Somewhat more A350-ish, now.
74 planemaker : The point is not that the "risk mitigation had been implemented months ago" but that it is only now being first reported... and not by BBD (as they c
75 Post contains links sebring : One reason why conventional timelines and presumptions about lateness may not apply about the CSeries. http://business.financialpost.com/20...-surpris
76 kaneporta1 : Why does Bombardier have to report this to anyone? Why does any company have to to provide internal information to the customers and/or public when i
77 Post contains images lightsaber : It amuses me that there are those who do not want the C-series to succeed. There is a market. The question is how large of a market. I believe we will
78 planemaker : For several reasons that are in BBD's interest that have already been listed... such as not having the information leak out in a major industry news
79 Post contains images lightsaber : It didn't even occur to me this wasn't the norm. But thinking about it... it isn't. But on 'software centric' airframes it will be the norm. So the q
80 golfradio : Thanks for the link. It was an interesting read. I agree. There are some who just don't want the C-Series or for that matter BBD to succeed. Looks li
81 YVRLTN : No offense intended to Planemaker personally, but when the planes he makes are Embraer's and he takes every possible chance to bash BBD and particula
82 ElpinDAB : I really don't see a problem with CSeries orders. I'd like to see more orders, but I think they will come with time. The minimum number of orders for
83 queb : Not only Embraer, without the CSeries, I don't think we would talk about A320neo and 737 MAX this week at Farnborough.
84 kaneporta1 : "Information leaked" by people with an agenda to be enjoyed by people with probably the same agenda and some others with not much knowledge in the su
85 planemaker : None taken... but you are incorrect on your assumptions and assertions. It is easier to cast aspersions on Aviation Week than actually address the th
86 Post contains links voodoo : Bombardier just tweeted from Farnborough: The CSeries program welcomes its 12th customer with a conditional order for 15 a/c worth $1.02 billionUS #av
87 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: Bloomberg News Bombardier Wins $1.02 Billion Deal For 15 CSeries Jetliners http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...eries-jetliners-1-.html?cm
88 Post contains links lightsaber : Bombardier in negotiations with AirAsia: http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/0...dier-airasia-idINL6E8I81GG20120708 Now that would be a game changing o
89 Viscount724 : I believe the CSeries has more orders than the Embraer 170-195 series had at the same stage of development (timing before first flight).
90 rikkus67 : ...I agree YVRLTN, and couldn't have said it better myself! I still hope we can finally get past the trivial A vs B and BBD vs EMB crap. BBD will do
91 mad99 : Now you know! Old news folks
92 r2rho : Not sure how you are meaning this, but if you meant to say that 1 & 2 should have been tested on the Iron Bird, well, I'm afraid that's not the I
93 Post contains images lightsaber : We can agree. My point is there still is risk, but the iron birds buy down much risk. Actuators have failed on iron birds, so they do prove quite a f
94 LAXDESI : 160 seat in the current CS300 has to be 6-abreast, perhaps with seat rows at an angle to the wall.
95 Post contains links queb : No, a five abreast 160 seats config with new ultra slim seat and 28" pitch is possible with the same comfort level of a 30" pitch with standard seat
96 Post contains links and images planemaker : Flight Global also is now reporting on this "old" news... . FARNBOROUGH: Bombardier dual-sources early CSeries centre fuselage barrels
97 Post contains links lightsaber : And businessweek is noting: “There’s no margin left to first flight,” Hachey said. “Right now we’re still driving for first flight by the e
98 Post contains images ferpe : Let my just state that I am very positive vs the Cseries, I really want it to succeed and give some healthy competition to those A and B products. I a
99 Post contains images r2rho : OK, then I possibly misunderstood. But we agree that Iron Birds (and other similar test rigs, like Airbus Cabin0 in XFW, etc) help burn down a lot of
100 ferpe : On this one I for once hope I am wrong, I would love for Bombardier to prove me and all other armchair doubters wrong, and even if they don't make it
101 Post contains links smws : Air Baltic has signed a letter of intent today to purchase 10 CS300 aircraft. Full press release here: http://www.airbaltic.com/public/49780.html
102 Post contains links thenoflyzone : Just as i thought. Looks like the CSeries will have a hard time making the 2012 deadline for first flight. http://www.montrealgazette.com/busin...rst+
103 SSTeve : I thought they've been saying consistently that there's no slack in the schedule for a few months now, but you're right in that floating "systems side
104 JoeCanuck : The CSeries/Chinese fuse sections issue has been known, and worked on, by BBD for a couple of years...it's not something that has just cropped up. Jus
105 ANM604 : Great news for BBD, two new customers in a couple days represents a significant vote of confidence in a plane many are doubting. If the "problems" at
106 lightsaber : Just to be clear, Bombardier sold 25 C-series at Farnborough? I just want to make sure I have the numbers correct. Please note I'm asking. Lightsaber
107 Post contains links smws : Confirmed. 25 orders, 10 of which are to airBaltic and 15 to an undisclosed buyer. Source: http://business.financialpost.com/20...rns-grow-about-firs
108 Post contains images ANM604 : Correct. This is more then I expected, and certainly good news for BBD! Now any speculation on who the undisclosed buyer is?
109 Post contains links and images ElpinDAB : I'm excited that we should see the CS300 in AirBaltic colors. Sexy! This would be at least the second undisclosed buyer, right? The previous undisclos
110 Post contains images oykie : The number is too low to be SAS, but their 28 736 are 14 years old and I expect that SK would not fly these 736 as long as the rest of the 737NG flee
111 Post contains links oykie : Bombardier posted this picture one hour a go. Is this a confirmation of AirAsia's commitment to the CSeries? http://ow.ly/i/Lpmg If AirAsia buy's a CS
112 Post contains links smws : http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...dier-airasia-idUSLNE86800I20120709 I think the talks are still ongoing.
113 oykie : So it seems. Will the 160 seats require another emergency exit over the wing like the A319 for EasyJet?
114 Post contains images planemaker : Factoring emergency window location has an impact on seat placement and total capacity. 155 seats looks possible but I think that it is problematic t
115 JoeCanuck : If Air Asia wants more seats and is willing to order, I think BBd would be more than happy to make a CS 500.
116 planemaker : A CS500 would throw the economics off... the whole point is to squeeze 160 pax into the CS300... not add cost, weight and risk with a CS500 derivativ
117 davs5032 : For AirAsia it might, but that's assuming that they are interested in a plane that seats no more than 160 at max capacity. However the economics gene
118 planemaker : Tony Fernandes has stated that he is only interested in a 160-seat CS300 for a couple of reasons, one of them is that he has an existing order for 20
119 Post contains images lightsaber : Thank you. This is great news! Yes, 25 more than I expected. It would be worth it for Bombardier to make 500 of those models for different potential
120 Post contains links planemaker : Looking again I don't see how they can squeeze in a 3rd extra row when allowance has to be made for the wing exits. So I think that they have to "cha
121 JoeCanuck : I wonder if this might be a good trial for the Thompson seats. They would probably allow 160 seats.
122 Post contains images planemaker : Do you mean the "Cosy Suite"... . The aisle would be narrower but the "Cosy Suite" would certainly allow for 160+ seats... though I don't think that
123 JoeCanuck : I'm really surprised that nobody has done even a trial aircraft with the cozy suite. They seem like a bloody good idea on the surface. Somebody should
124 smws : I do agree with that. But carriers seem to be more interested in trying to figure out how to have people "leaning" or standing in the plane instead o
125 Post contains images oykie : I was initially conerned about the evacuation and did not even start to look at how to get as many seat rows into the plane. It will be tight. I gues
126 r2rho : The AirAsia deal, if it happens, would be a huge endorsement of the CS300 versus its competitor the A319NEO. After all, with 200 NEOs on order, why wo
127 Post contains links voodoo : Yeah, sadly a model's existence does not always relate to any immediate order:
128 planemaker : I agree, that it looks impossible to squeeze in 160-seats (without structural modifications). The A319 would not be in the "running" for this hypothe
129 challengerdan : If you look at the embraer type certificate, there are restrictions as to how the seats will be distributed fore and aft of the overwing exits if you
130 JoeCanuck : I think Air Asia is already getting just about as much of a discount as is possible with Airbus. I doubt they can afford to move much more on price a
131 KDAYflyer : Kinda makes me wish Boeing had tried this on the 787 program. I dont know of that was even possible, but hey ........
132 planemaker : Part of the package is more than just purchase price per unit, of course. There are many, many "line items" to negotiate on than just price... which
133 Post contains images lightsaber : Keep making them. If *one* CS100/CS300 sells, it was worth the added cost for hundreds of different airline models. Not without limit. The C-series w
134 BD500 : We still don't know the name of 3 or 4 airlines (One has been un-officially announced as Odyssey), it would be very funny that after all Gulf Air is
135 JoeCanuck : The CSeries already has traction and there's not much more Airbus or CFM can offer Air Asia to sweeten the pot...the 319NEO will be the last built an
136 kaneporta1 : Looking at the image Planemaker posted and doing a bit of rough math: 29 rows at 30 inch = 870 inches of cabin length for seating. 870 divided by 28 i
137 JoeCanuck : True...ditch the bulkhead for a curtain, and that's another row of 3...stuff some babies in the overheads...maybe some hammocks...160, piece of cake.
138 Post contains images planemaker : My position has always been that the CSeries will be good aircraft with cash operating cost advantages (the % depending upon where operated, when and
139 TSS : Or, do 30 rows at 29 inches for a total of 150 seats. Would the extra profit from ten additional pax (assuming 100% full flights, of course) cover th
140 JoeCanuck : ? Of course an order is possible...why talk about it if there is no possibility? More importantly , why announce you're talking? It doesn't do a bit
141 Post contains images lightsaber : That could be. Note: I expect the LH/LZ order was a 'price war.' For this large of an order, it is well worth it for Bombardier to play the price war
142 planemaker : Of course an order is theoretically possible... just like the NW order, and the UA order, and the QR order, etc., airlines talk with OEMs all the tim
143 JoeCanuck : Not necessarily. If they drop the price so low as to take a loss, then they risk anti trust litigation, no matter where they sell their planes. Since
144 planemaker : Absolutely... and not just due to the annual ~500 versus 160 (if they even get there by 2016) economies of scale... but also due to the long list of
145 Post contains links queb : Aspire Aviation about the CSeries : Given the CSeries’ advantage over its less optimised competitors, there is little shock that it has outsold all
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