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New Zealand Aviation Thread #116  
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 15098 times:

Right everyone lets kick start number -116 - 'cleared for take off runway 23R.....'

In number 115 we looked at many topics including;

* 787 updates and seating ideas
* Snow in CHC and how it effects flights
* NZ and ANA to increase code-share
* Bali flight starts
* NZ looking at Extra flights to the US
* ATR 72-600 updates
* Extra planes (77W's) to be ordered for NZ?
* JQ to take over the SIN route from Jetstar Asia.
* UA cancel IAH - AKL before they even start

and the breaking news

Also welcome back ''NZ1''

NEW CEO of ANZ from JAN 2013 is Christopher Luxon

[Edited 2012-06-19 17:28:46]

[Edited 2012-06-19 17:31:59]

[Edited 2012-06-19 17:33:35]


CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
195 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 15108 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Thread starter):
Extra planes (77W's) to be ordered for NZ?

While I hope they do, this doesn't look likely. NZ seems to be more focused on the 787 line.


User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3339 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 14955 times:

Two of the above bullet points:

Quoting ZKOJH (Thread starter):
* NZ looking at Extra flights to the US

And…

Quoting ZKOJH (Thread starter):
* UA cancel IAH - AKL before they even start

Are very closely related. As I see it, the latter is mostly what's caused the former and NZ want to make sure AA or DL dont get any ideas, particularly with QF out of the picture. But they need to watch the back door for EZ too.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7110 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 14932 times:

Are the 744s not being used on trans tasman anymore? Was looking at a flight in DEC to BNE and wanted to try get on a 744

User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 14842 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 3):

Not as I'm aware of.. Only when they're short/something goes tech. 77W usually goes to MEL and 772 usually goes to BNE.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinebyronicle6 From Australia, joined Oct 2011, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 14771 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 3):

It does still seem to be operating, but very rarely. I'm also looking at flights to BNE in April and looks like its operating the morning flight on Thursdays and Saturdays during parts of April, but lots of other months looks like its not operating at all, and instead the BNE flights a mixture of 77W, 772 & A320



Travel is my thing
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14640 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 3):
Are the 744s not being used on trans tasman anymore? Was looking at a flight in DEC to BNE and wanted to try get on a 744

There is a 744 most Saturdays started last week on NZ135/136 AKL-BNE-AKL runs into September, remember there are only 2 in the fleet and they can't be everywhere although Tuesday through Friday both are usually parked at AKL. There is a few some weeks to SYD and MEL loaded through the summer schedule in between the daily SFO run making utilization quite high.

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 5):
I'm also looking at flights to BNE in April and looks like its operating the morning flight on Thursdays and Saturdays during parts of April

Thats a defualt schedule, its always says that, it may or may not actually happen.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 2):
As I see it, the latter is mostly what's caused the former and NZ want to make sure AA or DL dont get any ideas, particularly with QF out of the picture.

AKL is said to be chasing another US carrier, AA from DFW or LAX or DL from ATL or LAX??


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7110 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14354 times:

New Safety video on youtube, what do you guys think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmcFKtzcKbQ


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 14241 times:

Think AA have said they won't fly to either SYD or AKL so that would only leave a bid from Delta now that could be nice? a 744 would look sexy in AKL! which is becoming a major 'SKYTEAM zone.

And WHAT is with the new safety video, ! OMG, a very big turn off! NZ are going backwards and it's starting so soon 



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlinenzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 14242 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 7):
New Safety video on youtube, what do you guys think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmcFKtzcKbQ

I prefer it to the current one which is a mix of the last 4 .



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 14208 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 8):
a 744 would look sexy in AKL! which is becoming a major 'SKYTEAM zone.

772 would be more likely though I'd prefer a 764 myself  



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 14139 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 7):
New Safety video on youtube, what do you guys think?

I don't like the last scene where a NZ 77W disappeared into the ocean off Australia.


User currently offlineA330NZ From New Zealand, joined Dec 2010, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 14099 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 7):
what do you guys think?

I think it's awful. What happened to videos where they simply show you what to do in an emergency?? They did one video a little crazy - the body paint - which was still very instructional, but I think they've gotten worse and worse. I personally have to say that the nothing to hide video was the best


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 14087 times:

''Passenger numbers up for Air NZ''

Air New Zealand's long-haul passenger numbers rose 4.8% in May, led by increases in the number of Kiwis departing for Asia and Australia.

The airline carried 910,000 passengers in May, up 2% from a year earlier, it said in a statement.

Christopher Luxon had this to say;

"America's performance is strong - our business across the Atlantic has increased dramatically," he said. "We are constantly looking at where best we can maximise our return for the company and how we can strengthen our existing routes."

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/passenger-numbers-up-air-nz-4938071

is the US market really that good or is just because they have the route to themselves??!

I can only see them taking aircraft from current routes i.e PVG go to 763's ? and using it to increase the US services, or order some 77W's if the numbers are that good to read then take a risk take up the 2 options they all ready had and order one more, would make the market really good.

don't hang on and wait for the 787 which is another 2 years away!



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 14057 times:

I have just seen on the Virgin America site that they are showing AirNZ as an airline partner. They show a lot of airlines as partners - Qantas, Air Pacific, Cathay, Singapore Airlines. I must have missed an announcement about AirNZ joining with them. This may just be baggage interlining, so not much of a deal, but there are some cities, like Fort Lauderdale and Dallas, where using Virgin America would be quicker than using United if United requires connections. Virgin America would be a nice alternative for flights to New York, Washington etc. I wonder if AirNZ will offer Virgin America to NZ based passengers, or is the partnership more aimed at US residents?

User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 14037 times:

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 14):
I must have missed an announcement about AirNZ joining with them.

It was announced only a few days before I left New Zealand in April.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 14):
This may just be baggage interlining

Yes to my knowledge is all it is so far


User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3339 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 13894 times:

So what's Rob Fyfe up to next? R&R right now but… Virgin global airline brands alignment and international BFF and smiling assasin for SRB… does anyone know?


come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4866 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 13858 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 8):
so that would only leave a bid from Delta now that could be nice? a 744 would look sexy in AKL! which is becoming a major 'SKYTEAM zone.

77L is more likely. Also would think it would be from ATL rather than LAX. But I very much doubt it, I think they are happy with SYD.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 13818 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 15):
Quoting alangirvan (Reply 14):I must have missed an announcement about AirNZ joining with them.
It was announced only a few days before I left New Zealand in April.

Looks like I also missed it! Pity its only for baggage but since UA and NZ are close in the USA its not really surprising!

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 8):so that would only leave a bid from Delta now that could be nice? a 744 would look sexy in AKL! which is becoming a major 'SKYTEAM zone.
77L is more likely. Also would think it would be from ATL rather than LAX. But I very much doubt it, I think they are happy with SYD.

HA to HNL with an early morning arrival (roughly 8-10am as the new BNE service will have) with excellent connections to mainland USA?


User currently offlineBlackLabel From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 13725 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 18):
Looks like I also missed it! Pity its only for baggage but since UA and NZ are close in the USA its not really surprising!

A number of NZ fares to/from the US permit travel on VX (and DL, AA, US, UA, HA ,depending on the routes). E.g. FLL-SFO-AKL with VX/NZ is shown as valid routing.


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1672 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 13547 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 13):
"America's performance is strong - our business across the Atlantic has increased dramatically," he said. "We are constantly looking at where best we can maximise our return for the company and how we can strengthen our existing routes."

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/passenger-numbers-up-air-nz-4938071

is the US market really that good or is just because they have the route to themselves??!

The way I read it, they're talking about their Atlantic business, ie LAX-LHR



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 13512 times:

Again, these figures raise questions as to how a 763 can be more profitable on AKL-DPS than a 20% longer LAX-MAN or SFO-LHR sector.

The standard refrain seems to be that only NZ-market long-hauls are core business. But I find that naive and simplistic, just as I believe that making Pacific island online stopovers impossible on most ex-EU tickets served as a superb incentive for European and British leisure travellers to fly Emirates.

Unfortunately, the fingerprints of the outgoing CEO appear to be all over the new CEO's appointment, and I doubt that there will be any significant review of the contentious changes of the last few years.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week ago) and read 13429 times:

DPS only runs through to Oct, so you never know they might try another silly route after that?! but I still wonder how it's going make any money, it's aimed at outbound from New Zealand - take out all the operating cost of the flight and wonder what you will be left with !

in regards to flights across the Atlantic from LHR-LAX

at the moment you have ; 8 flights a day to fight with; (might have missed a couple) how does NZ001 compete with all off them? as we know from the LHR-HKG route that is under a lot of pressure!

AA 137
UA 935
UA 925
VS 007
VS 023
BA 279
BA 283
BA 269

And finally

NZ 001



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineA330NZ From New Zealand, joined Dec 2010, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week ago) and read 13413 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 22):
how does NZ001 compete with all off them

NZ provides a quality business class product. Also, they are one of only 2 airlines on the route (please correct me if I'm wrong) with premium economy (despite the fact the leg room only suits to hobbits) and as for economy class AKA Sardine can class, I'm not too sure how that does well...


User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 734 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week ago) and read 13407 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 22):
in regards to flights across the Atlantic from LHR-LAX

at the moment you have ; 8 flights a day to fight with; (might have missed a couple) how does NZ001 compete with all off them? as we know from the LHR-HKG route that is under a lot of pressure!

Hi

I might be a bit out of date as its a few years since I worked in the industry.

However NZ 1 as just a LHR-LAX flight was fairly easy to sell. Non-stop service to LAX, daily, with a good product. It was easier to sell sometimes than the north american carriers on the same route. Also as NZ 1 LHR-AKL this was seen as a premium way of getting to NZ. People would pay more to fly NZ to New Zealand as it was (ok incorrectly) thought of as being direct (or more direct)


LHR-HKG is a bit of a different story. Not being a daily service puts them at a disadvantage, plus the other carriers on the route offer at least what is seen to be a very good product.

Alex


User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 734 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13487 times:

Quoting A330NZ (Reply 23):
NZ provides a quality business class product. Also, they are one of only 2 airlines on the route (please correct me if I'm wrong) with premium economy (despite the fact the leg room only suits to hobbits) and as for economy class AKA Sardine can class, I'm not too sure how that does well...

VS have premium economy
BA have World Traveller Plus

as well and NZ.

UA also used to have a sort of premium economy that at one point could only be sold to UA frequent flyers. I am not sure if it is still offered.

Alex


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 26, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13459 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 8):
a 744 would look sexy in AKL! which is becoming a major 'SKYTEAM zone.

More likely a 777 I would think.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
77L is more likely. Also would think it would be from ATL rather than LAX. But I very much doubt it, I think they are happy with SYD.

MEL and BNE has been mentioned in the past with the VA deal, DL replacing VA on MEL-LAX is plausible IMO.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 18):
HA to HNL with an early morning arrival (roughly 8-10am as the new BNE service will have) with excellent connections to mainland USA?

I'd say so probably something like
HNL 1000 AKL 1830
AKL 2130 HNL 0630


User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13573 times:

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 19):
A number of NZ fares to/from the US permit travel on VX (and DL, AA, US, UA, HA ,depending on the routes). E.g. FLL-SFO-AKL with VX/NZ is shown as valid routing.

FLL-SFO-AKL would be useful for NZ residents who are taking a cruise in the Caribbean. Would be nice if VX give points in AirNZ FF.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 28, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13564 times:

The thing about TransAtlantic flights from the west coast of the USA is that so many time zones are crossed that one daily frequency is plenty.

Traditionally, NZ fares (and costs) have been slightly lower than VS, UA and BA, while the product has been perceived to be superior in Business, Premium Economy and Economy. This made NZ competitive on Trans-Atlantic tickets, while the choice of stopovers at PPT, NAN, HNL, RAR, TBU and APW was a major selling point for leisure travellers from UK/EU to NZ and even Australia.

Unfortunately, that Pacific network has been dismantled, and passengers buying up to the fares which allow them to take codeshare replacements pay a huge fare premium and lose frequent flyer accrual.

And worse still, NZ's Economy product now involves by far the worst personal space of any of the four carriers.


User currently offlineA330NZ From New Zealand, joined Dec 2010, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13421 times:

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 25):
VS have premium economy
BA have World Traveller Plus
as well and NZ.

My mistake, I was unaware that VS had a premium economy product. Thank you for the correction


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13321 times:

NZ goes 744 daily on the SFO route from the 28 Oct 2012

NZ008 AKL1930 – 1030SFO 744 D
NZ007 SFO1930 – 0530+2AKL 744 D

28OCT12 – 09DEC12 Service operates 6 weekly (Day x3)
eff 10DEC12 Daily

still 9 hrs down time, loss of $$$$$ could they not re-time the return leg?



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 31, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 13302 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 30):
still 9 hrs down time, loss of $$$$$ could they not re-time the return leg?

I would argue this was the case across the longhaul network. YVR/SFO/LAX/HKG/LHR/PVG all involve long periods of downtime. Many airlines have a maximum downtime they will not exceed at outstations of say 2h or 2h30 to ensure that they get the utilisation from their fleets.

However being that the 744 only flies to SFO now means that they are not the top priority for retiming. I would do so for all of the above mentioned flights, not just SFO.


User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 13297 times:

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 25):
UA also used to have a sort of premium economy that at one point could only be sold to UA frequent flyers. I am not sure if it is still offered.

It's still very much on offer. UA's version of Y+ will also feature on the 787. See details:


http://www.ausbt.com.au/united-s-boe...eamliners-including-qantas-to-come


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 33, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 13299 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 30):
NZ008 AKL1930 – 1030SFO 744 D
NZ007 SFO1930 – 0530+2AKL 744 D

28OCT12 – 09DEC12 Service operates 6 weekly (Day x3)
eff 10DEC12 Daily

still 9 hrs down time, loss of $$$$$ could they not re-time the return leg?

NZ8/7 becoming AKL-SFO-ORD/JFK/ORD/IAH?


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4866 posts, RR: 10
Reply 34, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13277 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 30):

still 9 hrs down time, loss of $$$$$ could they not re-time the return leg?

Well the 744s basically don't cost NZ jack all to have sitting around anymore so its not a biggie...better to have the preferred timings. Also gives plenty of time for mx... which at their age is probably becoming a lot more necessary even though they seem to live rather easy lives these days.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 35, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13243 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
.better to have the preferred timings

preferred for who, the airline or passengers?


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4866 posts, RR: 10
Reply 36, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13239 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 35):
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
.better to have the preferred timings

preferred for who, the airline or passengers?

both. Sure there are some pax who would prefer to arrive into SFO earlier in the morning to allow earlier connections to the East Coast, but for most it still works fine and means they get to have a full last day in NZL. Night departures from US West are preferable to just about everyone as they allow people to have a day working then catch their flight. Even those from the East Coast can get most of a day in.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently onlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1525 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13267 times:

I know this is slightly off the general topic, but there has been an ANZ B777 sitting in Las Vegas since
June 17th. Any ideas why its here so long? I figured it was a charter, but why it didnt ferry back to LAX
is a mystery. Nice to see and very rare in these parts!!!!



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 38, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13252 times:

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 37):
Any ideas why its here so long? I figured it was a charter, but why it didnt ferry back to LAX

You were correct, an Air New Zealand organised package charter, I thought the packages sold were for 5 nights - but I didn't pay much attention. The aircraft is operating directly back to AKL.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7110 posts, RR: 12
Reply 39, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13133 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 33):
NZ8/7 becoming AKL-SFO-ORD/JFK/ORD/IAH?

That probably would'nt work well as NZ doesnt have the 5th freedom rights to make it ork. I doubt they could fill a 744 (or even a 777 or 763 for that matter) of peole to go to JFK etc from AKL. Makes more sense to codeshare


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 40, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13051 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 39):
That probably would'nt work well as NZ doesnt have the 5th freedom rights to make it ork. I doubt they could fill a 744 (or even a 777 or 763 for that matter) of peole to go to JFK etc from AKL.

Thats 7th or 8th freedom carrying domestic PAX which they simply wouldn't ever be allowed to do. From LAX they could have extended NZ6 to somewhere back when they had connecting flights from SYD, CHC, NAN, PPT, etc. They simply I think decided the 744 was to big back then. Now I don't think they would consider it unless to FRA or MAN.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 31):
However being that the 744 only flies to SFO now means that they are not the top priority for retiming. I would do so for all of the above mentioned flights, not just SFO.

What would you do though. Retime them to AKL-Asia flights as daylight again and maybe US flights depart AKL most likely much later like

AKL 0900 PVG 1700
PVG 1900 AKL 1030

AKL 2359 LAX 1630
LAX 2030 AKL 0430

All longhaul flights departing in the evening atleast offers reasonable connections from everywhere. Asian flights in daylight need to leave a bit later maybe to increase AKL connections but then reduce connections at the other end and US flights returning in daylight leave the US before noon and arrive AKL around 2000/2100 which doesn't offer much in connections also means ex AKL they need to leave by 1800 missing some connections which i'd say are pretty important to NZs long haul routes.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7110 posts, RR: 12
Reply 41, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13039 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 40):
Thats 7th or 8th freedom carrying domestic PAX which they simply wouldn't ever be allowed to do.

Oh my bad. Point is though, If QF struggled to fill a 332 (with feed from AKL, MEL, SYD & BNE) , a 744 would be an overkill for NZ from AKL


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 42, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13019 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 41):
Oh my bad. Point is though, If QF struggled to fill a 332 (with feed from AKL, MEL, SYD & BNE) , a 744 would be an overkill for NZ from AKL

QF run a 744 again now though, go figure really. They seem to do ok up front and in the hold to JFK. The 332 was just J and Y and the 744 no longer has F but does atleast have W.

But for NZ they didn't extend to another port in the past from LAX or SFO and I can't see it in future unless its an International tag but even then it doesn't seem likely atm.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2748 posts, RR: 4
Reply 43, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13009 times:

What would be great would be if NZ offered a reasonable option of AKL-West Coast-East Coast-Europe (and vice versa) in combination with partner airlines. Prices at travel agents for this type of routing are usually silly enough to warrant splitting the whole thing up and doing it yourself, while the website doesn't recognise any of it as an option.

Is it totally inconceivable that people might want to fly into one coast and out the other? Even as an open jaw for US domestic, it would be handy. Would demonstrate the value of alliances.


User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12901 times:

The Qantas service to New York has been a hard one for Qantas. They started it with 747s, and then switched to A330s, which may have been the right size for the number of passengers carried, but an A332 does not have the range to fly from Australia to US West Coast. (Another reason why Qantas could have found a use for the 777. A 777-200ER could fly BNE-LAX-JFK). Now they are back with 747s, but that is not because they need the extra Economy seats on the route.

When NZ is a much smaller market, how would AirNZ hope to fill even a 777 on the LAX-JFK sector, where of course they have no traffic rights. One advantage for Qantas is that they are providing the service between LAX and JFK, not transferring the passengers to US carriers with Buy on Board service.


User currently offlinebrad330 From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12546 times:

Hi All,

Does anybody know where I can find information on the amount of passengers carried on each air route for domestic NZ operations?

Cheers, Brad


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5225 posts, RR: 5
Reply 46, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12361 times:

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 44):
When NZ is a much smaller market, how would AirNZ hope to fill even a 777 on the LAX-JFK sector, where of course they have no traffic rights.

My view is that NYC is a market as good or better than LAX. About all LAX has is Disney and Universal Studios.The population within 100 mile radius of NYC is 28.2m whereas LAX is 17.7m. Great connecting point for tours of the east coast seaboard and into the interior as far as the Mississippi River.
To me AKL-IAH-EWR same aircraft seems attractive. In my view a 250-seater 789 would be quite well sized for the route. NYC is one of the major air cargo points in the world. Imagine N.Z. fresh products gathered in the morning, out of AKL in the evening and on the NYC market a day later. The 789 can haul a full passenger load plus 15t of cargo eastbound AKL-IAH.
I would advocate reducing NZ5/6 to 4x weekly and doing this route the other 3 days one of which should be Saturday for those of us in central Canada who like to travel on weekends. Out of AKL at 1630 PM into IAH at 1330 into EWR at 1745 into IAH at 2300 out at 00.30 into AKL at 0715.
There was discussion on pre-clearing US Customs and Immigration in AKL a few months ago. In my view this is an essential component in growing the US market. The Airport Authority should provide the space pro bono , the airlines should kick in or surcharge the shortfall of passengers below the 400,000 that the US considers to be a minimum to set up such a service. This would help dispel the hangup that Kiwi's have on clearing US Customs particularly in LAX.
Just my    worth.


User currently offlinemacilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 8
Reply 47, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12180 times:

Quoting brad330 (Reply 45):
Does anybody know where I can find information on the amount of passengers carried on each air route for domestic NZ operations?

Brad, there is nothing publicly available on pax numbers by route. When we deregulated the domestic air transport market in the 1980s the Ministry of Transport stopped collecting this data.

You can get total domestic passenger numbers for AKL, WLG and CHC (also ZQN) from each airport company's web site. I follow this data to get an overall picture of what is going on. Note that almost all domestic flights now originate or terminate at these three hubs.

The best bet might be to work out capacity and make a load factor assumption. The University of Otago CATR web site has a report with a network map that shows seat capacity on the main individual domestic routes in 2010 (see page 70).

There are also CPI component series for international and domestic passenger fares available on the Statistics NZ web site.



John Macilree
User currently offlinemacilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 8
Reply 48, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12168 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 40):
Thats 7th or 8th freedom carrying domestic PAX which they simply wouldn't ever be allowed to do.

In the example given it would require eight freedom rights to be exchanged for Air New Zealand to carry domestic passengers within the USA. The USA has not exchanged those rights with New Zealand under the MALIAT or with any other country for that matter.

However, some readers may recall that Air New Zealand was able to carry its own passengers between HNL and LAX even if they had stopped over in Hawaii. I did this in 1986.



John Macilree
User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1296 posts, RR: 6
Reply 49, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 12027 times:

I just wonder why we see so much speculation on two stop routes?
Wasnt this just what NZ said they wouldn't start more of in the future. Or did I miss some new announcements that they are now back to planning two stops and fuel not killing yields on such routes?

I think its safe to assume that NZ wont add any new 2 stops. Look at the price for a ticket to California and compare that with the price to LHR. they sure don't make that many percent extra flying all the way to LHR. Its not money or resources well spent to add more 2 stops unless they can increase prices accordingly and we see no sign at all of that being possible with the competition that exist on flights to Europe.

If for some reason they were to add an extra two stop id say that would just be shuffling of what they're doing right now.

Also, as far as I understand international isn't profitable. Is it really the right time to add another of the biggest money losers then?

DPS how manys eats are sold to the uncompetitive travel-agent market in New Zealand. I assume thats a route where bundled trips through Flightcentre and the other two agents accounts for 80% of demand.
I assume they did their homework and despite me not believing NZ should be in the charter business, way to low margins, I assume it must be a marginally profitable route or the travel department at NZ must be completely clueless. The information, stats and agreements with primary sales channels they must have had before they launched such a route should make it impossible to fail unless the route planners are paid to guesstimate and that would surprise me...



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlinebyronicle6 From Australia, joined Oct 2011, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days ago) and read 11978 times:

Quoting brad330 (Reply 45):
Does anybody know where I can find information on the amount of passengers carried on each air route for domestic NZ operations?

Wikipedia also has a page on the busiest NZ airports by passengers numbers for the 2011 calendar year but im not entirely sure how reliable the data is being Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_airports_in_New_Zealand



Travel is my thing
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11115 times:

Good signs from the China market, one area is working right!

''Chinese visitors rocketing at Auckland airport''

Auckland International Airport, which is targeting Asian arrivals to stoke growth over the next decade, saw a 44.4% increase in Chinese arrivals in May over the same month last year, even as international passenger numbers fell.

Chinese arrivals jumped 44.4% to 12,443. China was New Zealand's second largest inbound market behind Australia for the third month in a row.

Full story below;

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/chin...rocketing-auckland-airport-4945543



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11136 times:

Also whilst were getting some really rubbish weather here in Beijing, in New Zealand this happens

'''Loud bang' as plane struck by lightning - passenger''

Two planes were struck by lightning shortly before landing at Auckland Airport and a passenger claims the wild weather left a hole in the tail of one aircraft.

Christchurch woman Nancy Higgins said her Air New Zealand flight with 144 passengers was about 10 minutes from landing just before 8am yesterday when she heard "a loud bang".

follow full story @

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/loud...struck-lightning-passenger-4946537



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 53, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 11056 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 51):

I'd say it's more related to the fact that CZ started operations here than the strength of NZ's own China services.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 54, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10981 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

While heading to the runway at WLG around 4.30pm today I noticed the Star Alliance A320 being towed to the NZ MX hanger. It was originally parked at an International gate before being towed. Has it gone tech?

Looks like my Bali flight tonight is fairly full. An NZ agent told me in business class theres only 4 seats left.


User currently offlineMr AirNZ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2002, 879 posts, RR: 1
Reply 55, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10911 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 54):
While heading to the runway at WLG around 4.30pm today I noticed the Star Alliance A320 being towed to the NZ MX hanger. It was originally parked at an International gate before being towed. Has it gone tech?

The Wellington airport company recently introduced a policy where they charge airlines a fee if they remain parked at a gate beyond a specific time. To avoid this where possible, the Air NZ group is moving its aircraft off the gate's and to the South Eastern corner of the field.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 56, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10753 times:

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 55):
The Wellington airport company recently introduced a policy where they charge airlines a fee if they remain parked at a gate beyond a specific time. To avoid this where possible, the Air NZ group is moving its aircraft off the gate's and to the South Eastern corner of the field.

No wonder why WLG looks so dead half the time, especially the international side!



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4866 posts, RR: 10
Reply 57, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10630 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 56):
ago) and read 121 times:

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 55):
The Wellington airport company recently introduced a policy where they charge airlines a fee if they remain parked at a gate beyond a specific time. To avoid this where possible, the Air NZ group is moving its aircraft off the gate's and to the South Eastern corner of the field.

No wonder why WLG looks so dead half the time, especially the international side!

Well that is just silly if the gates are not needed. It doesn't cost anything to have an aircraft parked up at a gate.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 58, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10603 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 57):
Well that is just silly if the gates are not needed. It doesn't cost anything to have an aircraft parked up at a gate.

yes true - in downtime it seems silly, I understand why they have started it now though. It encourages airlines to turn their aircraft around quicker and not spend any more money than they have to so that it opens more gate slots. On the flipside you have AKL, which is chronic for allowing aircraft to sit on gates for many hours longer than required taking up valuable gate lounge space and limiting an already limited facility even further. it is best to regulate before it gets as bad as that.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4866 posts, RR: 10
Reply 59, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10494 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 58):
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 57):
Well that is just silly if the gates are not needed. It doesn't cost anything to have an aircraft parked up at a gate.

yes true - in downtime it seems silly, I understand why they have started it now though. It encourages airlines to turn their aircraft around quicker and not spend any more money than they have to so that it opens more gate slots. On the flipside you have AKL, which is chronic for allowing aircraft to sit on gates for many hours longer than required taking up valuable gate lounge space and limiting an already limited facility even further. it is best to regulate before it gets as bad as that.

I'm not saying don't do that if its busy, all I'm saying is that if it is quiet and isn't affecting anyone whatsoever then there is no point in moving an aircraft only to then move it back later on.
In AKL case if the gates are needed then the aircraft should be moved, or rather the airline should speed up its turnarounds... or even better AIAL should stop being such a bunch of tightass pennypinchers and stump up for a decent new terminal of Intl standards which in the long term is probably cheaper and less disruptive than constantly having extensions tacked on with renovations.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3339 posts, RR: 9
Reply 60, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10436 times:

Just a thought, is AKL-CPT possible with the 789, once NZ has ETOPS 360 clearance, or is this not possible directly over Antarctica? And if it is, how about AKL-CPT-LHR now that SA is no longer flying between Capetown and London?

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 61, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10427 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 60):
once NZ has ETOPS 360 clearance, or is this not possible directly over Antarctica?

I thought Australia (and CASA rules) was more of an issue because it'd probably be flying through Australian airspace at some point.. Or is it only an issue if NZ decides to make a stop somewhere in Australia?



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5828 posts, RR: 6
Reply 62, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10408 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 60):
Just a thought, is AKL-CPT possible with the 789, once NZ has ETOPS 360 clearance, or is this not possible directly over Antarctica?
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 61):
I thought Australia (and CASA rules) was more of an issue because it'd probably be flying through Australian airspace at some point.

Looking at the GC mapper I don't think Australian airspace is the problem. I don't know about NZL but AUS requires special approval for operations below 60 degrees South. I would think NZL does too. I think the requirements for special approval would preclude direct AKL-CPT services.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 63, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10374 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 60):
Just a thought, is AKL-CPT possible with the 789, once NZ has ETOPS 360 clearance, or is this not possible directly over Antarctica? And if it is, how about AKL-CPT-LHR now that SA is no longer flying between Capetown and London?

Why CPT and not JNB? Captonians are used to changing planes at JNB, whereas residents from Jo'burg rarely go to CPT to catch an international flight. AKL-JNB would make better economical sense.

SA pulled out of CPT-LHR, but there are BA and VS on the route, plus a number of other European and Middle Eastern airlines which offer connections.


User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4287 posts, RR: 52
Reply 64, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10369 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 60):
Just a thought, is AKL-CPT possible with the 789, once NZ has ETOPS 360 clearance, or is this not possible directly over Antarctica?

Even under 330 EDTO this couldn't be done directly. You would need a more northerly routing toward Kerguelen Island. This should also keep you away from the 60 deg S line. This routing would add between 400-500 miles to the flight.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 62):
Looking at the GC mapper I don't think Australian airspace is the problem. I don't know about NZL but AUS requires special approval for operations below 60 degrees South. I would think NZL does too.

I can't think of any CARs that would prohibit an operation south of 60 deg S off the top of my head, but I also haven't looked at the issue before. Will look in the CARs later this week and see if I can find anything on it.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 65, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10268 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 56):
Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 55):The Wellington airport company recently introduced a policy where they charge airlines a fee if they remain parked at a gate beyond a specific time. To avoid this where possible, the Air NZ group is moving its aircraft off the gate's and to the South Eastern corner of the field.
No wonder why WLG looks so dead half the time, especially the international side!

I fully agree during the quiet times that its crazy to move an aircraft if the gate isnt required for another aircraft. It seems NZ, DJ and QF have their own international gates at WLG as you rarly see another aircraft at that gate.

Anyone know the rego of NZ245 to DPS last night? Couldn't see its rego at the gates. Couldn't see any spare seats in Y while walking around during the flight. J was 100% booked. Looks like NZ could be onto a winner with DPS flights during a quiet time! Only issue with the flight was that NZ didnt have enough arrival forms on board. Two arrival forms need to be filled out if your applying for a visa on arrival (basically every passenger was) and NZ only had the Customs forms.


User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4287 posts, RR: 52
Reply 66, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10221 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 61):
I thought Australia (and CASA rules) was more of an issue because it'd probably be flying through Australian airspace at some point.. Or is it only an issue if NZ decides to make a stop somewhere in Australia?

Even then, as long as the operator has ANZA privileges, it shouldn't be an issue.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 67, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days ago) and read 10219 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 65):
Anyone know the rego of NZ245 to DPS last night?

looks to have been ZK-NCL according to flightradar.


User currently offlinebyronicle6 From Australia, joined Oct 2011, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days ago) and read 10199 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 65):
Anyone know the rego of NZ245 to DPS last night?

was ZK-NCL

Quoting 777ER (Reply 65):
Couldn't see any spare seats in Y while walking around during the flight. J was 100% booked.

Good to hear loads are good on DPS flights, especially in J where people on here thought they were in a lot of trouble selling those seats, even if they are being sold much cheaper than other comparable distance routes.

Wonder if they will make DPS year round, as they do have the aircraft available to do it



Travel is my thing
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 69, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days ago) and read 10178 times:

Quoting texan (Reply 66):
as long as the operator has ANZA privileges

Can you explain what these privileges are? And I take it that NZ would be exempt from CASA's ETOPS/equivalent restrictions, even though it goes closest to Australian ports?



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 70, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days ago) and read 10190 times:

Of course Business loads to Bali are good: it's only 25% dearer than Economy, and 1/3 of what is charged on the same aircraft on the 300 km longer flight to Honolulu.

User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 71, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10124 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 70):
Of course Business loads to Bali are good: it's only 25% dearer than Economy, and 1/3 of what is charged on the same aircraft on the 300 km longer flight to Honolulu.

and there are lots of people who have enough airpoints from their credit cards from their groceries and fuel bills to pay for such a minor increase as you mentioned.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 72, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10080 times:

2 new stories today for our followers ;

''Queenstown Airport drops international departure fee''

In an effort to improve the passenger experience, Queenstown Airport has announced it has removed its NZ$25.00 international departure fee.

According to Queenstown Airport the move is part of the Airport’s new landing charges, which come into effect on 01 July 2012.

Queenstown Airport chief executive officer Scott Paterson said having to pay the departure fee has long been an annoying imposition on travellers.

http://www.etravelblackboard.co.nz/article.asp?id=81871&nav=117

''QF adjusts trans-Tasman schedule''

Qantas has announced adjustments to its trans-Tasman schedule to maintain “the needs of business travellers”.

Commencing 16 July, the airline will move its morning services 10-30 minutes later on flights; QF47 Sydney and Wellington, QF118 Wellington to Sydney, QF123 Brisbane and Auckland, QF124 Auckland and Brisbane as well as QF135 Melbourne to Auckland.

http://www.etravelblackboard.co.nz/article.asp?id=81870&nav=117



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 73, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10046 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 72):
Commencing 16 July, the airline will move its morning services 10-30 minutes later on flights; QF47 Sydney and Wellington, QF118 Wellington to Sydney, QF123 Brisbane and Auckland, QF124 Auckland and Brisbane as well as QF135 Melbourne to Auckland.

I always thought QF135 which currently leaves MEL at 0600 was to early just for mainly O/D traffic since MEL doesn't have International connections that SYD does and the aircraft doesn't have to be back in MEL really as it does MEL-AKL-MEL-AKL but doesn't go back to MEL again that day so plenty of slack in the schedules. I would have thought QF 133 the last MEL-AKL flight which currently leaves MEL at 1730 arrives AKL 2310 should depart MEL more like 1830 similar to NZ and better for business people who get an extra hour in MEL.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 74, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10022 times:

http://mrcaviation.blogspot.co.nz/20...boeing-737-200-exits-nz-skies.html

A great little article on the last 737-200 serving New Zealand skies; which left this country today.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 75, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9997 times:

''Jetstream back on Air NZ Link services''

VH-OTH is destined to become ZK-VAH. The Air New Zealand website indicates that the aircraft is going to be used at least on these Wanganui services -

On Sunday the aircraft positions to Wanganui and then heads on to Auckland and back

NZ2056 WLG-WAG 1535 1610 Su
NZ2058 WAG-AKL 1710 1810 Su

During the week the aircraft will do a morning/evening return service to Auckland as follows
NZ2050 WAG-AKL 0650 0750 Daily ex Sa Su
NZ2051 AKL-WAG 1830 1930 Daily ex Sa

On Friday night the aircraft positions back to Wellington

NZ2055 WAG-WLG 1955 2030 Fr

Also on Friday it does a late afternoon return run between Auckland and Whakatane.

NZ2056 AKL-WHK 1625 1710 Fr
NZ2054 WHK-AKL 1730 1815 Fr



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 3014 posts, RR: 8
Reply 76, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9946 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 57):
Well that is just silly if the gates are not needed. It doesn't cost anything to have an aircraft parked up at a gate.

Your correct, but it does give the airport operators, another avenue to raise revenue, so why not !



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 77, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9965 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 76):

Your correct, but it does give the airport operators, another avenue to raise revenue, so why not !

Because it's completely unnecessary and potentially creates more inefficiencies/costs in the moving of aircraft when they could just as easily stay put but also make the airport more 'lively' at the same time. Maybe something to put in place in Auckland during peak times; but Wellington??



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinesqb7e From New Zealand, joined Feb 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9912 times:

Hey

Sorry if this has been mentioned previously but have always been curious as to how CI are doing out of AKL?


User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3339 posts, RR: 9
Reply 79, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9922 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 77):

Wellington Airport is so revenue focused they're putting up barrier arms to stop pick-ups in the drop-off area.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 80, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9914 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 79):

Oh well, glad I don't live there 
Even worse how the buses and ticketing systems are also owned by the same parent.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 81, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9917 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 79):

Apparantly you get 10mins free in the pick up parking area? Could never understand why the road beside the car park is two lanes heading south till the turn off to drop off, why can't it be a normal two lane road? Would certainly avoid the 'problems' at drop off


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 82, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9898 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 81):
Apparantly you get 10mins free in the pick up parking area?

It used to be that way, not sure if it still is. From memory, the price lists at the car park entrances don't show that.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 79):
Wellington Airport is so revenue focused they're putting up barrier arms to stop pick-ups in the drop-off area.

I will make sure I utilise the free parking opposite the petrol station whenever possible then, considering that the airport parking is so overpriced.


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 3014 posts, RR: 8
Reply 83, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9896 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 77):
Because it's completely unnecessary and potentially creates more inefficiencies/costs in the moving of aircraft when they could just as easily stay put but also make the airport more 'lively' at the same time. Maybe something to put in place in Auckland during peak times; but Wellington??

I agree that's its unnecessary.

But the days of Government ownership are well and truly over. And its a sad fact that airports becoming privatized, means that operators will start charging by the second for everything if they can get away with it (like they already do with car parking).
This way, its Air NZ's cost, to move and then reposition the aircraft at the gate, and the airport cam charge them for having to do it !!

Great isn't it.. Welcome to the world of privatization



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 84, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9893 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 83):

I'm sure having some planes parked in the area which is seen most by people driving in from the airport is better than none; by which they seem to send the message that this airport is completely dead and doesn't ever look like having the capability of sustaining long haul flights to Europe, thus finishing what would likely be their mission statement in one hit!



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 3014 posts, RR: 8
Reply 85, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9877 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 84):
I'm sure having some planes parked in the area which is seen most by people driving in from the airport is better than none; by which they seem to send the message that this airport is completely dead and doesn't ever look like having the capability of sustaining long haul flights to Europe, thus finishing what would likely be their mission statement in one hit!

Do you honestly think, that the average Joe Blow driving past wellington airport, seeing that the gates are empty, thinks about long haul routs, or for that matter, the airports ability to serve such flights ?

I don't think so.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 86, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9833 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 85):

Wellington getting long haul flights one day is frequently talked about in the media.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5225 posts, RR: 5
Reply 87, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9740 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 60):
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 83):
Great isn't it.. Welcome to the world of privatization

Rather it is monopolies both public and private where market forces cannot exercise any control.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8632 posts, RR: 13
Reply 88, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9735 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting 777ER (Reply 86):
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 85):
Wellington getting long haul flights one day is frequently talked about in the media.

Lots of things get talked about in the media, including UFO's , EK flying to WLG, NZ starting longhaul ex WLG and the world peace, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any of them to actually happen.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2748 posts, RR: 4
Reply 89, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9611 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 82):
I will make sure I utilise the free parking opposite the petrol station whenever possible then, considering that the airport parking is so overpriced.

Yeah I've done this in the past when I've had the time adn been based in Welly. Leaving the car there over the weekend isn't a problem, though I guess it risks being broken into.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 74):
A great little article on the last 737-200 serving New Zealand skies; which left this country today.

Yeah a really good read. The -200s will always have a place in the ol' heart - so many AKL-CHC-DUD-IVC flights back in the day (with the occasional AKL-CHC-IVC and AKL-WLG/CHC-DUD-IVC). Noisy as hell if you were on a window seat behind the wing, but as a kid climbing on when it was pouring down outside (in any of those airports) it was always a comforting experience, the staff handing out lollies and sometimes colouring kits for the unattended minors at the back of the plane. Loved walking down the airstairs from the front door and remember the excitement of sitting at IVC Airport and seeing the -200 pull up - trying to spot the bird name and always wondering why there was one with a different cheatline than the others. Was always disappointed when they brought in the airbridge and it often felt like the town (in IVC) turned out to watch you leave.

Farewell -200s, you served us well.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 90, posted (2 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 9419 times:

if long haul did come to WLG and I use the word 'IF' ! the likes of fly-scoot/ Air Asia X etc could have a go, but NZ would only go for flights out of CHC and AKL, (we already know there 787 fleet will all be based at AKL) but safe to say that nothing will happen any time soon.


CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8632 posts, RR: 13
Reply 91, posted (2 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 9404 times:
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Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 89):
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 74):A great little article on the last 737-200 serving New Zealand skies; which left this country today.
Yeah a really good read. The -200s will always have a place in the ol' heart

I also have fond memories of the -200s. They have been such an important part of New Zealand's aviation history. I wonder how many of us had our first jet experience on an NZ -200 ? Quite a few, I am sure. The newer 737's are great, but to me they lack the thrill of the -200.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently onlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 884 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (2 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 9425 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 90):
if long haul did come to WLG and I use the word 'IF' ! the likes of fly-scoot/ Air Asia X etc could have a go, but NZ would only go for flights out of CHC and AKL, (we already know there 787 fleet will all be based at AKL) but safe to say that nothing will happen any time soon.

NZ would only go for AKL not even CHC. CHC-LAX was axed shortly after Rob Fyfe became CEO. The only long haul flights to CHC from NRT/KIX are driven by the agreement with JL otherwise they would have been direct to AKL as well. Do these flights go into CHC anymore now that the NH codeshare has started?


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 93, posted (2 years 6 months 21 hours ago) and read 9390 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 92):
Do these flights go into CHC anymore now that the NH codeshare has started?

My flight last saturday certainly didn't stop in CHC, but I see that it is in the schedules.

Mon,Tue,Sat 6:30p Narita Intl, Tokyo (NRT) 1 10:00a+1 Christchurch (CHC)
Air New Zealand NZ 90 Non-stop Boeing 777-200 (772) 11:30 Effective Oct 29 through Dec 4


User currently offlinenzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 94, posted (2 years 6 months 21 hours ago) and read 9362 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 90):
if long haul did come to WLG and I use the word 'IF' ! the likes of fly-scoot/ Air Asia X etc could have a go, but NZ would only go for flights out of CHC and AKL, (we already know there 787 fleet will all be based at AKL) but safe to say that nothing will happen any time soon.

Well if Air Asia X can not make CHC work then WLG has no chance



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 95, posted (2 years 6 months 21 hours ago) and read 9361 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 91):
I also have fond memories of the -200s. They have been such an important part of New Zealand's aviation history. I wonder how many of us had our first jet experience on an NZ -200 ?

Hmm, stink I never flew an NZ 732 or any 732 for that matter.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 92):
Do these flights go into CHC anymore now that the NH codeshare has started?

Only 3 weekly NRT flights in the NZ summer only.


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 96, posted (2 years 6 months 21 hours ago) and read 9349 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 92):
The only long haul flights to CHC from NRT/KIX are driven by the agreement with JL otherwise they would have been direct to AKL as well.

My impression has always been that it is for the convenience for Japanese package tours that they start their journey in the South Island and return home through AKL.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 97, posted (2 years 6 months 19 hours ago) and read 9280 times:

Quoting nzrich (Reply 94):
Well if Air Asia X can not make CHC work then WLG has no chance

Give it a stop in SYD/MEL and you could have a chance... Push the prices down so more people can afford it. And voila, WLG has a widebody service connecting to Asia.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 95):
Hmm, stink I never flew an NZ 732 or any 732 for that matter.

I'm pretty sure I did but was too young to remember.. And I remember for my flights in early 2001 that I was wishing for a 733 instead of a 732 - of course I got 2 733s and no 732.. Looking back, you see what errors you made!



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently onlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 884 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (2 years 6 months 18 hours ago) and read 9187 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 96):
My impression has always been that it is for the convenience for Japanese package tours that they start their journey in the South Island and return home through AKL.

Correct but I always think it's strange. I wonder how many people going to AKL avoid these flights that stop in CHC. Or if NZ force them to change planes in AKL they won't come? Is there a AKL-CHC shuttle service for this purpose so they won't need to change terminals or collect bags?


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 99, posted (2 years 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 9097 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 98):
I wonder how many people going to AKL avoid these flights that stop in CHC.

Next to none probably. NZ has a monopoly on Japan-AKL, and if one needs to travel on a certain day, be it stopping at CHC or not, one has to get on the flight. The choice is not there unless one is flexible on the travel date.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 98):
Or if NZ force them to change planes in AKL they won't come?

The consideration is that a Japanese group tour may take up 40+ seats on a AKL-CHC domestic flight. It maybe more economical to get the NRT-AKL plane to stop at CHC.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 98):
Is there a AKL-CHC shuttle service for this purpose so they won't need to change terminals or collect bags?

Not one that would connect to the NRT and KIX arrivals.


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 927 posts, RR: 0
Reply 100, posted (2 years 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 9089 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 91):
I also have fond memories of the -200s. They have been such an important part of New Zealand's aviation history. I wonder how many of us had our first jet experience on an NZ -200 ? Quite a few, I am sure. The newer 737's are great, but to me they lack the thrill of the -200.

Mid 1969 for me. The early morning HLZ-WLG F27 was cancelled as fog prevented arrival of the positioning flight from AKL. Bus to AKL and 737-219 to WLG about 1030. Nice clear sunny morning in AKL, and a nice new 737 with music! Some things you don't forget.

PA515


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 927 posts, RR: 0
Reply 101, posted (2 years 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 9090 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 99):
The consideration is that a Japanese group tour may take up 40+ seats on a AKL-CHC domestic flight. It maybe more economical to get the NRT-AKL plane to stop at CHC.

The CHC-AKL sector of NRT-CHC-AKL has also been used for CHC-PER pax, avoiding the AKL domestic terminal. Not sure if it still is.

PA515


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 102, posted (2 years 6 months 13 hours ago) and read 9085 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 88):

What I was replying to was comment #85 about the average Joe Bloggs not thinking about empty gates and long haul flights. Wellington residents DO talk about issues with long haul flying.

Quoting nzrich (Reply 94):
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 90):if long haul did come to WLG and I use the word 'IF' ! the likes of fly-scoot/ Air Asia X etc could have a go, but NZ would only go for flights out of CHC and AKL, (we already know there 787 fleet will all be based at AKL) but safe to say that nothing will happen any time soon.

Well if Air Asia X can not make CHC work then WLG has no chance

Ever considered the earthquakes could have played a big part in Air Asia X pullling out of CHC and not just cause of no passenger 'pulling power' for the flights?

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 97):
Quoting nzrich (Reply 94):Well if Air Asia X can not make CHC work then WLG has no chance
Give it a stop in SYD/MEL and you could have a chance... Push the prices down so more people can afford it. And voila, WLG has a widebody service connecting to Asia.

Any widebody service/new airline to WLG that reduces fares will get their seats filled. Just a pity AKL and CHC get cheaper fares with people from WLG and surrounding areas usually getting cheaper fares via AKL instead of their local airport.


User currently offlineHLZCPH From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 103, posted (2 years 6 months 7 hours ago) and read 9021 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 98):
Correct but I always think it's strange. I wonder how many people going to AKL avoid these flights that stop in CHC. Or if NZ force them to change planes in AKL they won't come? Is there a AKL-CHC shuttle service for this purpose so they won't need to change terminals or collect bags?

We stopped in CHC on our way back from NRT a few years back. Was not a big deal for us and good to have a walk about the new (then) terminal area after a long flight. The hop up to AKL had some extra pax from CHC, I wonder nowadays what their final destination was?

Quoting PA515 (Reply 100):
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 91):
I also have fond memories of the -200s. They have been such an important part of New Zealand's aviation history. I wonder how many of us had our first jet experience on an NZ -200 ? Quite a few, I am sure. The newer 737's are great, but to me they lack the thrill of the -200.

Mid 1969 for me. The early morning HLZ-WLG F27 was cancelled as fog prevented arrival of the positioning flight from AKL. Bus to AKL and 737-219 to WLG about 1030. Nice clear sunny morning in AKL, and a nice new 737 with music! Some things you don't forget.

PA515

My first flight, ever, was 1978, HLZ-WLG on a 737-200 series as we went to a family wedding in DUD. Cannot remember if it was a positioning flight from AKL though.

Pity we couldn't have got NAC back at the end of her days, displayed at MOTAT perhaps? She is an important piece of our aviation history IMO.

Good to see NQC off to a new life in Canada, the yellow, if it's kept on, will show up good in the snow!
 



July, AKL-SFO-LAS-SFO-AKL. last ride in the NZ 744?
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 104, posted (2 years 6 months 7 hours ago) and read 8996 times:

Quoting HLZCPH (Reply 103):
Pity we couldn't have got NAC back at the end of her days, displayed at MOTAT perhaps?

I'd even be happy to see an Air NZ retrojet..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7110 posts, RR: 12
Reply 105, posted (2 years 6 months 7 hours ago) and read 8999 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 102):
Any widebody service/new airline to WLG that reduces fares will get their seats filled. Just a pity AKL and CHC get cheaper fares with people from WLG and surrounding areas usually getting cheaper fares via AKL instead of their local airport.

I'm pretty sure that WLG can't support a widebody for a long haul flight with any sort of useful economical load. Runway is too short.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 91):
I also have fond memories of the -200s. They have been such an important part of New Zealand's aviation history. I wonder how many of us had our first jet experience on an NZ -200 ? Quite a few, I am sure. The newer 737's are great, but to me they lack the thrill of the -200.

I remember mine, CHC-ROT-AKL. ROT-AKL in a 732 was interesting


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 927 posts, RR: 0
Reply 106, posted (2 years 6 months 6 hours ago) and read 8956 times:

Quoting HLZCPH (Reply 103):
My first flight, ever, was 1978, HLZ-WLG on a 737-200 series as we went to a family wedding in DUD. Cannot remember if it was a positioning flight from AKL though.

The Dec 76 / Jan 77 NAC Timetable had a daily 732 WLG-HLZ 1010/1100, HLZ-WLG 1135/1225.

Not sure when the early morning HLZ-WLG 732 flight commenced, but it didn't overnight in HLZ either. Easier to position the aircraft to AKL where the crew lived and the aircraft could be worked on overnight. Could also take some WLG-AKL pax through HLZ if necessary.

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/nz1.htm

PA515

[Edited 2012-06-28 15:55:20]

User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8632 posts, RR: 13
Reply 107, posted (2 years 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 8923 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 105):
ROT-AKL in a 732 was interesting

I did that once, it was amazing 



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1359 posts, RR: 1
Reply 108, posted (2 years 6 months 3 hours ago) and read 8880 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 101):
The CHC-AKL sector of NRT-CHC-AKL has also been used for CHC-PER pax, avoiding the AKL domestic terminal. Not sure if it still is.

Is the CHC-AKL sector bookable for domestic passengers? Nothing against 737s, but I'd rather fly the leg on a 772 than a 733.



First to fly on the Boeing 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE; NZ103, AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 109, posted (2 years 6 months 3 hours ago) and read 8862 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 108):
Is the CHC-AKL sector bookable for domestic passengers?

I rang up and tried a couple of years back.. And was denied..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 110, posted (2 years 6 months 3 hours ago) and read 8854 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 108):
Is the CHC-AKL sector bookable for domestic passengers? Nothing against 737s, but I'd rather fly the leg on a 772 than a 733.
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 109):
I rang up and tried a couple of years back.. And was denied..

I went on the 772 flight as a domestic passenger, but that was more than 5 years ago.


User currently offlineaerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 111, posted (2 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 8817 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 105):
I'm pretty sure that WLG can't support a widebody for a long haul flight with any sort of useful economical load. Runway is too short.

I believe this is a common myth that has been discredited multiple times, but seems to be constantly repeated (particularly by folks from AKL) as if it were true...
Economical load depends on the route, aircraft used, loadfactor and yield.
From memory, I remember seeing some numbers on a WLG-SIN/KUL/HKG flight operated by an A332 and it came out looking pretty good... Dont have time right now to do a thorough search right now, but will try to when I can.



What?
User currently offlineMr AirNZ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2002, 879 posts, RR: 1
Reply 112, posted (2 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 8812 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 102):
Ever considered the earthquakes could have played a big part in Air Asia X pullling out of CHC and not just cause of no passenger 'pulling power' for the flights?

If Air Asia couldn't make London work, even without the earthquakes there really wasn't a s**t show in hell of making Christchurch work. Long haul low cost doesn't work for almost every company whose tried it. Medium haul routes however seem to be viable though using a low cost model (Aussie to Asia etc.)


User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3339 posts, RR: 9
Reply 113, posted (2 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 8796 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 105):
I'm pretty sure that WLG can't support a widebody for a long haul flight with any sort of useful economical load. Runway is too short.

Wellington Airport is trying to convince airlines and the flying public that while that may be the case now, with the advent of next-gen aircraft (particularly the 789 and A358), WLG will be in non-stop reach of a SE Asia super-hub (SIN, KUL or similar) which could put WLG one-stop away from almost every major city in Asia, Europe and Africa.

Interesting to note that Wellington Airport's projected passenger growth numbers are quite bullish in their 2030 Vision Plan (see link below), but the number of frequencies isn't anticipated to grow significantly - this growth is therefore contingent on airlines upguaging their craft. Also, the plan to grow the runway length doesn't appear a huge priority - they're again relying on airlines to bring on new and more capable aeroplanes.

http://www.wellingtonairport.co.nz/d...irport-Masterplan-January-2010.pdf

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 114, posted (2 years 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 8780 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 113):
Wellington Airport is trying to convince airlines and the flying public that while that may be the case now, with the advent of next-gen aircraft (particularly the 789 and A358), WLG will be in non-stop reach of a SE Asia super-hub (SIN, KUL or similar) which could put WLG one-stop away from almost every major city in Asia, Europe and Africa.

I seriously doubt if any airline would put WLG in their priority list for their 787 or 350 utilisation. If WLG ever gets long hual flights, it would more likely be an extension of existing services to Australia rather than non-stop.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2748 posts, RR: 4
Reply 115, posted (2 years 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 8784 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 105):
I remember mine, CHC-ROT-AKL. ROT-AKL in a 732 was interesting

I think I remember seeing that inthe old NZ timetable booklets. Akin to DUD-IVC I guess.

An NAC 737 or a red/orange liveried NZ 737 would be fantastic! Those NAC ones especially look pristine in the photos - all that shiny silver underbelly.

Sad that none of this was considered prior to NQC's departure.


User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1296 posts, RR: 6
Reply 116, posted (2 years 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 8778 times:

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 111):

I believe this is a common myth that has been discredited multiple times, but seems to be constantly repeated (particularly by folks from AKL) as if it were true...

Been discredited by whom?
Wellington interest groups? Id say that as long as Wellington airport cant convince an airline (and by all means they are trying their hardest) to start long haul out of Wellington we can all agree that no there is no case strong enough to convince those that matters.
And those that matters are not in Auckland so the old kiwi sport called Auckland bashing doesn't cut the mustard.

Until a route starts Id say that Wellington cant support longhaul. Proof is in the pudding and all that.

Wellington, 10-12 hours from possible hubs is an expensive sell. Think of the extra resources for SE Asian airlines when their aircraft is gone for 24 hours. Compare other unserved markets say Townsville and Cairns in Australia for example. They are closer to the airlines hub and have a market size bigger than Wellington. Wellington is by no means an easy sell in SE Asia.

Add on that yields are pressured to Auckland, making airlines such as TG and MH struggle on their routes here. There is nothing at all to support Wellington being higher yielding than Auckland and thus very unlikely that any of those airlines would start Wellington.
SQ has been asked heaps of times to start a route by Wellington airport. Hasn't happened so far.
EK don't have any more frequencies across the Tasman if I remember correctly.

Whats left?
Possibly China Southern or Korean.
Who else is there?
Air Asia wont, jetstar is loosing money to Auckland.

my bet, Wellington is unserved at this time in 2013 too. unfortunately.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4095 posts, RR: 1
Reply 117, posted (2 years 6 months ago) and read 8766 times:

An Air New Zealand All Black B777 300 is on it's way to Rarotonga, Cook Islands, according to Cook islands facebookpage. Is the demand really that big for Cook Islands ?

User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 734 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8737 times:

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 112):
If Air Asia couldn't make London work, even without the earthquakes there really wasn't a s**t show in hell of making Christchurch work. Long haul low cost doesn't work for almost every company whose tried it. Medium haul routes however seem to be viable though using a low cost model (Aussie to Asia etc.)

Just really agreeing with you.

Air Asia had many problems with their London route.

1. They never really got their marketing right. Many people in the industry didn't know that they even flew into London and that was after 6 months of operation.

2. KUL was not the best choice of destination, BKK, HKT or even PEN would of been better.

3. Their fares were not cheap, in many cases it was the same sort of level as EK, QR, EY, KL etc. Then when you add bags and meals they could even be more expensive.

I flew they a few days before Easter last year and the flight was no where near full, everyone in economy had at least 2 seats. At that time of year they should of been full. On the return back into ORY their premium cabin was full (and good value) but again economy was not busy.

Long haul airfares in economy with the traditional carriers have reduced a lot over the past 30 years. I am not sure that there is much room to reduce fares more. Short haul LCC work because you can have the aircraft doing multiple sectors per day. With long haul you can't really do that and the LCC's don't have the business class passengers paying high fares to subsidise the economy class traffic.

Just my view

Alex


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 119, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8697 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 117):
An Air New Zealand All Black B777 300 is on it's way to Rarotonga, Cook Islands, according to Cook islands facebookpage. Is the demand really that big for Cook Islands ?

Probably a once off thing, but from experience traveling to RAR around this time of the year in previous years, I wouldn't be surprised they could fill a 773 in Y. I usually go on the 763 and the Y cabin looks very full. There are lots of tourists on RAR in recent years, the local buses are sometimes packed to the door.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 120, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8682 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 117):
An Air New Zealand All Black B777 300 is on it's way to Rarotonga, Cook Islands, according to Cook islands facebookpage. Is the demand really that big for Cook Islands ?

School holidays down here. This is peak season for the Islands when the weather is cold in New Zealand and people want to get away. The 77W may otherwise just be idle at AKL due to its schedule so it'd make sense to up the capacity if it's warranted.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 3014 posts, RR: 8
Reply 121, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8655 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 119):
Probably a once off thing, but from experience traveling to RAR around this time of the year in previous years, I wouldn't be surprised they could fill a 773 in Y. I usually go on the 763 and the Y cabin looks very full. There are lots of tourists on RAR in recent years, the local buses are sometimes packed to the door.

Would it possibly be going on to LAX ??



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 122, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8647 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 121):
Would it possibly be going on to LAX ??

No, likely just the standard AKL-RAR-AKL NZ46/45 rotation, potentially it could be used AKL-LAX-LHR NZ2 later on tonight, but not being used as the weekly NZ18 flight. The 772 & 744 have both been common in RAR over school holidays previously, and now that the 77W is often the spare aircraft during the day it makes sense to utilize the bonus capacity.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7110 posts, RR: 12
Reply 123, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8472 times:

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 111):
From memory, I remember seeing some numbers on a WLG-SIN/KUL/HKG flight operated by an A332 and it came out looking pretty good... Dont have time right now to do a thorough search right now, but will try to when I can

Would be interesting to see the figures when you can get them. I know the WLG Runway is approx 2000m, and not all of it can be used when calculating distance required for 121 aircraft. How much roughly would a 332 need to get off with a good load and fuel? If it's any more than 1600 meters (approx) then the runway would be too short would'nt it?

P.S. I'm guess-timating these figures from what I know, will be happily prooven wrong

[Edited 2012-06-29 05:49:04]

User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4095 posts, RR: 1
Reply 124, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8419 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 119):
Probably a once off thing, but from experience traveling to RAR around this time of the year in previous years, I wouldn't be surprised they could fill a 773 in Y. I usually go on the 763 and the Y cabin looks very full. There are lots of tourists on RAR in recent years, the local buses are sometimes packed to the door.
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 120):
School holidays down here. This is peak season for the Islands when the weather is cold in New Zealand and people want to get away. The 77W may otherwise just be idle at AKL due to its schedule so it'd make sense to up the capacity if it's warranted.

Yes the Cook islands seem to become more and more populare and unerstandably so, - I was there both in 2006 and 2010 and what a wonderful and friendly people the Cook islanders are.

I understand now there is also a direct route between Sydney and Rarotonga ? How well is this doing ?


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5225 posts, RR: 5
Reply 125, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8392 times:

.

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 123):
How much roughly would a 332 need to get off with a good load and fuel? If

This doesn't answer your question but a A332 would be limited to about a 200t TOW for 6300ft runway length. If this length is useable with passenger ready at about 126t this leaves ~74t for payload and fuel. Assuming a 285 passenger load a likely range is about 3500nm give or take or no where of significance beyond Australia


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 126, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8382 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 124):
I understand now there is also a direct route between Sydney and Rarotonga ? How well is this doing ?

Judging from the large increase in the presence of Australian tourists on RAR since the route has started, and that NZ now runs the SYD-RAR all year round (the route was originally a seasonal trial), it should be doing reasonably well.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7110 posts, RR: 12
Reply 127, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8349 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 125):
This doesn't answer your question but a A332 would be limited to about a 200t TOW for 6300ft runway length. If this length is useable with passenger ready at about 126t this leaves ~74t for payload and fuel. Assuming a 285 passenger load a likely range is about 3500nm give or take or no where of significance beyond Australia

If that is the case then that is my point (as I said a guess-timation). Im not questioning if there is demand for a long haul service out of welly, but rather an economical one (I.e because of runway length would the aircraft be so weight limited that it is not worth it). If a plane had to stop in australia, then no point having a long haul service at all


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 128, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8320 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 122):
The 772 & 744 have both been common in RAR over school holidays previously,

The 772 is scheduled to RAR 2-3 weekly year round.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 129, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8207 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 127):
If that is the case then that is my point (as I said a guess-timation). Im not questioning if there is demand for a long haul service out of welly, but rather an economical one (I.e because of runway length would the aircraft be so weight limited that it is not worth it). If a plane had to stop in australia, then no point having a long haul service at all

Emirates seem to do ok out of CHC though, yet their service is a one stop to BKK. I wouldn't be surprised if they did start some flight to WLG if they were granted more rights. But that's probably it.. Or maybe some other Middle Eastern carrier - I don't see anyone else wanting to attempt long hauls at the moment.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineA330NZ From New Zealand, joined Dec 2010, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8145 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 129):
their service is a one stop to BKK.

My family all avoid the EK flight from Christchurch, but I've had friends that have flown it, and apparently it's awful because it stops twice just to get to Dubai!


User currently offlinebyronicle6 From Australia, joined Oct 2011, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 131, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8108 times:

Quoting A330NZ (Reply 130):

Is it not possible to connect to the A380 AKL originating flight (EK413) non-stop to DXB later in the evening



Travel is my thing
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 132, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8116 times:

There are possibly only a few ways that New Zealand will gain more airlines.
- If the AIAL continues to subsidise airlines to use their airport as they did with CZ and others.
- If NZ was to go out of business and left a gaping hole.
- A much larger population.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5828 posts, RR: 6
Reply 133, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8060 times:

Quoting A330NZ (Reply 130):
My family all avoid the EK flight from Christchurch, but I've had friends that have flown it, and apparently it's awful because it stops twice just to get to Dubai!

EK 417/418 DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC-SYD-BKK-DXB, usually B77W including the dreaded 3-4-3 Y class. It's hell from SYD, god help you from CHC.

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 131):
Is it not possible to connect to the A380 AKL originating flight (EK413) non-stop to DXB later in the evening

Yes, but the fare is usually substantially higher than on EK 417/418, out of SYD anyway.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineAndrensn From New Zealand, joined Jun 2012, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7967 times:

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 131):
Is it not possible to connect to the A380 AKL originating flight (EK413) non-stop to DXB later in the evening

Yes you can do that although the emirates website only allows you to book that sometimes
I've seen it as a option before although have never done it.
Before AKL was A380 it was EK418 AKL-SYD-BKK-DXB and CHC was EK413 CHC-SYD-DXB and you could defiantly connect to skip BKK then.
The wonders of airlines booking systems  
Cheers Andrensn


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 135, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7964 times:

Quoting A330NZ (Reply 130):

Depends on who you are and where you're going.. You also have SQ direct to SIN so I suppose that remains a big option when heading to Europe or even the subcontinent.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7110 posts, RR: 12
Reply 136, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7915 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 129):
Emirates seem to do ok out of CHC though, yet their service is a one stop to BKK. I wouldn't be surprised if they did start some flight to WLG if they were granted more rights. But that's probably it.. Or maybe some other Middle Eastern carrier - I don't see anyone else wanting to attempt long hauls at the moment.

I'm not doubting trans tasman stuff, but rather non-stop long hauls


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2748 posts, RR: 4
Reply 137, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7857 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 133):
EK 417/418 DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC-SYD-BKK-DXB, usually B77W including the dreaded 3-4-3 Y class. It's hell from SYD, god help you from CHC.

Such hyperbole. I've done this from AKL in the past and it was fine. I slept right through the BKK layover where we didn't even get off the plane.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 138, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7802 times:

And yesterday was the last day of scheduled Aerolineas Argentinas flights to Auckland (for however long). And it was delayed as usual!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7268/7470845600_ee47c9dd71_b.jpg
Aerolineas Argentinas Airbus A340-300 by ANZ787900, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7259/7471928052_2d20f0d15d_b.jpg
Aerolineas Argentinas Airbus A340-300 by ANZ787900, on Flickr



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8632 posts, RR: 13
Reply 139, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7756 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 138):
And yesterday was the last day of scheduled Aerolineas Argentinas flights to Auckland (for however long). And it was delayed as usual!

Such a shame after so many years, love the new livery. But I have to agree that it was fitting that the flight was delayed, it would have been a shame to have ruined their on time performance record with an actual on time flight  



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5828 posts, RR: 6
Reply 140, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7729 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 137):
Such hyperbole. I've done this from AKL in the past and it was fine. I slept right through the BKK layover where we didn't even get off the plane.

Your opinion, fine but don't try and pass it off as objective!

Except for price, sometimes, EK417/418 is just dumb from CHC to beyond DXB and how many pax to/ from CHC have a DXB O&D? Alternatively take SQ/QF from CHC and you can reach most cities in Europe in 1 or 2 stops instead of the 3 or more on EK.

I won't even talk about the 3-4-3 seating!

gEMUSER



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 141, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7714 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 140):
Except for price, sometimes, EK417/418 is just dumb from CHC to beyond DXB

It is a real backpacker flight - judging by my observations of that flight arriving a while back in CHC, They get to stop in Bangkok on the way, and then get to bypass AKL to get to the 'tourist bits' of NZ if they are inbound, or those on an OE use it, because again they get to stop in Thailand (Backpacking Mecca) and it is cheap.

I'm not saying that it really is worth EK flying, but it is at least a way of finding a use for an idle aeroplane.

The high yielding traffic invariably still actually flies through AKL anyway more often than not due to hard product spec onboard and schedule.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2748 posts, RR: 4
Reply 142, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7660 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 141):
I'm not saying that it really is worth EK flying, but it is at least a way of finding a use for an idle aeroplane.

Evidently, a more profitable (or less loss making) way than leaving the plane on the ground. and I suspect EK has a slightly more sophisticated measure of a passenger's (and freight's) worth than the old NZ argument of looking at routes in isolation (anyone else remember the "boo hoo the Tasman isn't profitable", "too much capacity on the Tasman (but we fly 777s anyway" sob stories?).

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 141):
It is a real backpacker flight

AKL-SYD-BKK-DXB didn't have a noticable backpacker quality to it on the three occasions I've taken it.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 140):
Your opinion, fine but don't try and pass it off as objective!

I'm not. My point is that describing it as "hell" is a ridiculous exaggeration. Been on a KLM 744 with 420 other pax, one working overhead tv, 31 inch pitch and almost no inflight service for 12 hours?

Quoting gemuser (Reply 140):
I won't even talk about the 3-4-3 seating!

Good. Because the seats are no slimmer than a 744 economy seats and EK gives you 34 inch pitch, which is more than QF, DJ or NZ.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 140):
Alternatively take SQ/QF from CHC and you can reach most cities in Europe in 1 or 2 stops instead of the 3 or more on EK.

And that suits some people, fine. But I'm finding myself going for airlines that can provide more stopover options and faster connections to Europe/Africa without being forced via LHR, matched with a pretty damn good inflight service. JQ dominates QF Group traffic out of CHC now and EK provides some healthy FF points for their great service, comfy planes and amazing network.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 138):
And yesterday was the last day of scheduled Aerolineas Argentinas flights to Auckland (for however long). And it was delayed as usual!

Fantastic livery so a shame it's going but yeah, not surprised at the delay. Fitting indeed.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5828 posts, RR: 6
Reply 143, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7616 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 142):
Because the seats are no slimmer than a 744 economy seats

Sorry, the total seat width AND the space between the arm rests on EK is between 1 & 2 cm smaller than normal B777 3-3-3 (DL) widths. I personally measured both in 09/10.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinetaieridrome From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 144, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7600 times:

Last year flying to CDG had the option of either EK or SQ out of CHC. The main reason for choosing SQ was that it was just one stop and when you are travelling with 27 teenagers (yes 27!) that had a certain appeal. The only downside on the return trip was a 13 hour layover in Singapore after coming off a very long and sleepless leg from Paris. Maybe much the same totally stuffed feeling on arriving home as going via DXB/BKK/SYD.

User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 145, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks ago) and read 7509 times:

Japan Airlines fined in NZ cartel case

Japan Airlines, the carrier that emerged from bankruptcy last year, has been fined $2.3 million for breaches of New Zealand's competition law for its part in an air cargo price fixing cartel.

The penalty was imposed in the High Court in Auckland as part of a prosecution brought by the Commerce Commission.

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/japa...es-fined-in-nz-cartel-case-4950998



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlinenzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 146, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7357 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 102):
Ever considered the earthquakes could have played a big part in Air Asia X pullling out of CHC and not just cause of no passenger 'pulling power' for the flights?

Ever consider that with no connections to Europe at all after they pulled out of Europe that this helped with Air Asia X pulling out . With WLG having a smaller runway and a smaller passenger base ( CHC also has the south Island ) then WLG has no chance at all . With both of those facts CHC has the better chance . If the earthquakes had that big of an impact then EK and SQ would of pulled out .



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2748 posts, RR: 4
Reply 147, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7238 times:

Quoting taieridrome (Reply 144):
SQ was that it was just one stop and when you are travelling with 27 teenagers (yes 27!)

I don't envy that job. But 27 teenagers sounds fairly backpacker-esque, no?

Regardless, in your circumstances, SQ provided. As it will for me in a few weeks. But for others in different circumstances (and evidently there are enough of these for EK to continue serving CHC for all of these years), EK fits their needs.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 143):
Sorry, the total seat width AND the space between the arm rests on EK is between 1 & 2 cm smaller than normal B777 3-3-3 (DL) widths.

Wait, so you've been complaining about 747 seat width all these years? Really? Because that's what the 77W is replacing in many cases, not 772s. And how is DL's pitch? 34 inch?


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5828 posts, RR: 6
Reply 148, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7217 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 147):
Wait, so you've been complaining about 747 seat width all these years?

Not me, I've NEVER said a bad word about the B744/743 seat width, never had a problem.
Pitch on DL was between 31 & 32, could be more accurate as one seat wouldn't recline(ie it was frozen in place) & the one in front wouldn't lock totally upright (almost but not totally). This pitch, with the extra seat width suited me fine. The extra pitch is useless if the seat is too narrow. The EK seat was too narrow for ME, the DL one was not.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinetaieridrome From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 149, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7079 times:

Agree with you nzrich. In my opinion the Christchurch earthquakes had very little to do with Air Asia X pulling out of CHC. Very very difficult for a carrier of this type to make money on this sevice no matter how full the aircraft were. Reducing their destinations elsewhere probably didn't help either.
Agree Aerokiwi, what suits some with SQ will not suit others and EK is another option. Given a different set of circumstances like travelling alone I may well have gone with EK. I think they are a very good airline and like SQ have stayed loyal to CHC. In fact SQ increased there service to daily last year. In the cold hard world of running an airline I know things can change quite quickly but for now both EK and SQ seem to be ok with CHC.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2748 posts, RR: 4
Reply 150, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6935 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 148):
Not me, I've NEVER said a bad word about the B744/743 seat width, never had a problem.

Which is my point. The 3-4-3 77W and the 744s have the same seat width. So what's the problem?


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5828 posts, RR: 6
Reply 151, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6941 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 150):
The 3-4-3 77W and the 744s have the same seat width

No they don't. Specifically when comparing the Y seat width between QF, BA & JL B744s and EKs B77W 3-4-3 the EK seat is narrower! End of argument. I don't care what the documentation says, EK is narrower as measured by me, by 1 to 1.5 cm.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 152, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6968 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting nzrich (Reply 146):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 102):Ever considered the earthquakes could have played a big part in Air Asia X pullling out of CHC and not just cause of no passenger 'pulling power' for the flights?
Ever consider that with no connections to Europe at all after they pulled out of Europe that this helped with Air Asia X pulling out . With WLG having a smaller runway and a smaller passenger base ( CHC also has the south Island ) then WLG has no chance at all . With both of those facts CHC has the better chance . If the earthquakes had that big of an impact then EK and SQ would of pulled out .

Asia in itself is a favourite holiday destination and Asians also enjoy coming here for holidays. No connections to Europe certainly wouldn't have helped but that can't be 100% blamed on Air Asia pulling out. Air Asia had many destination that would suit, like Thailand and Bali. Why would EK pull out when its cheaper (apparantly) for them to send the B77W to CHC instead of parking it at SYD? Why would SQ pull out with its history here? SQ is a full service carrier and an easier option then taking NZ to AKL to get to Asia and Europe. SQ will always have the customers. Air Asia being a new entrant and a LCC didn't help and the airline even said IIRC (don't ask for sources cause I can't remember where I read it) that the earthquakes took a big hit on their loads with passengers cancelling tickets both to/from New Zealand. NZ suffered the same and SQ did also apparantly.

Where the heck did I say Air Asia would work out of WLG?


User currently offlinedeconz From New Zealand, joined Nov 2010, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 153, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6923 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 151):

Incorrect. The 744 cabin is wider than the 77W so how can the seats possibly be the same width?


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7110 posts, RR: 12
Reply 154, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6924 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 150):
Which is my point. The 3-4-3 77W and the 744s have the same seat width. So what's the problem?

I was under the impression that the 77W seats were slightly slimmer than the 744 seats in the NZ fleet, vaguely remember it being discssed on here when the 77W was first discovered to have had 3-4-3 seating.


User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 734 posts, RR: 0
Reply 155, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6880 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 152):
Why would SQ pull out with its history here? SQ is a full service carrier and an easier option then taking NZ to AKL to get to Asia and Europe. SQ will always have the customers.

Hi

Does it not all come down to money? I have been told by a friend who's a travel agent in CHC that SQ are making a loss currently on the CHC-SIN service and he is slightly concerned that something is going to happen unless things pick up soon.

A few years ago SQ was a pain from Europe to CHC. Getting seats to SIN was easy but getting seats from SIN-CHC was not so easy and usually a case of wait listing and then calling sales to see if there was anything they could do. I guess SQ made a lot of money on CHC but things change.

I know that from CHC to Europe you have options via AKL/Australia but SQ with a one stop routing is by far the easiest. I wish there was an alternative say NZ CHC-LAX-LHR but there isn't.

Alex


User currently offlinenzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 156, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6863 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 152):
Where the heck did I say Air Asia would work out of WLG?

Sorry was supposed to of replied to another poster on WLG

Quoting 777ER (Reply 152):
Asia in itself is a favourite holiday destination and Asians also enjoy coming here for holidays. No connections to Europe certainly wouldn't have helped but that can't be 100% blamed on Air Asia pulling out. Air Asia had many destination that would suit, like Thailand and Bali. Why would EK pull out when its cheaper (apparantly) for them to send the B77W to CHC instead of parking it at SYD? Why would SQ pull out with its history here? SQ is a full service carrier and an easier option then taking NZ to AKL to get to Asia and Europe. SQ will always have the customers. Air Asia being a new entrant and a LCC didn't help and the airline even said IIRC (don't ask for sources cause I can't remember where I read it) that the earthquakes took a big hit on their loads with passengers cancelling tickets both to/from New Zealand. NZ suffered the same and SQ did also apparantly.

Unfortunately other asian airlines have tried CHC and left ie Korean . Yes the earthquake would not of helped demand . But also with the bad publicity of ditching Europe and leaving many hundreds of kiwi travellers stranded trying to fly other airlines did not help their reputation here .



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7396 posts, RR: 16
Reply 157, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6816 times:

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 155):
he is slightly concerned that something is going to happen unless things pick up soon.

Especially given that SQ is undergoing a major cost cutting exercise globally right now - more so than usual. They are chopping and fine-tuning in an attempt to make money on marginal routes. I concur, I think CHC is one of the routes SQ is watching very carefully and doing the sums on, and it won't take much for them to either downsize or dump altogether.

I wonder if the 333 may make an appearance on this route at some point in CHC. Even the overnight to AKL could be at risk of downsizing, especially if the A380 ever turns up on the SQ285/6. Recently, It has not been so heavily utilized as it once was. I think maybe the MH overnight flight has pulled away some of the thru traffic that SQ used to capitalise on the SQ281/282 service.


User currently offlinenzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 158, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6765 times:

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 155):
Does it not all come down to money? I have been told by a friend who's a travel agent in CHC that SQ are making a loss currently on the CHC-SIN service and he is slightly concerned that something is going to happen unless things pick up soon.

May I ask how does a travel agent is making money . Yes they may know some loads but that is not if a route is profitable . For SQ they have slowly but surely increased the frequency of these flights which hardly says this route is unprofitable .

[Edited 2012-07-02 00:08:36]


"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 159, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6758 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 155):
know that from CHC to Europe you have options via AKL/Australia but SQ with a one stop routing is by far the easiest. I wish there was an alternative say NZ CHC-LAX-LHR but there isn't.

As I said SQ to Europe and Asia is by far the easiest option compared to via AKL with NZ. As a result SQ will always have the demand, even if they raise their fares to slightly less then AKL (if not already the case)

Quoting nzrich (Reply 156):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 152):Asia in itself is a favourite holiday destination and Asians also enjoy coming here for holidays. No connections to Europe certainly wouldn't have helped but that can't be 100% blamed on Air Asia pulling out. Air Asia had many destination that would suit, like Thailand and Bali. Why would EK pull out when its cheaper (apparantly) for them to send the B77W to CHC instead of parking it at SYD? Why would SQ pull out with its history here? SQ is a full service carrier and an easier option then taking NZ to AKL to get to Asia and Europe. SQ will always have the customers. Air Asia being a new entrant and a LCC didn't help and the airline even said IIRC (don't ask for sources cause I can't remember where I read it) that the earthquakes took a big hit on their loads with passengers cancelling tickets both to/from New Zealand. NZ suffered the same and SQ did also apparantly.Unfortunately other asian airlines have tried CHC and left ie Korean . Yes the earthquake would not of helped demand . But also with the bad publicity of ditching Europe and leaving many hundreds of kiwi travellers stranded trying to fly other airlines did not help their reputation here .

Many airlines leave customers stranded by either dropping routes or suspending/cancelling routes and end up with angry customers (QF for example by cancelling all mainline services) but those customers end up coming back because that airline is the best option for both route/pricing for where they want to go (Jetstar for example when they first started, pax said they won't fly with them again but if JQ is the best/cheapest option then they will be back) and if Air Asia X is the best option then pax will fly them to Asia. Air Asia X IMHO didn't give New Zealanders a fair chance to return. Air Asia X IMHO has lost a good market with all the options possible with CHC, like Queenstown, Able Tasman National Park. If the direct route wasn't making money then why not expand the OOL route to CHC?


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 160, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6769 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Looks like NZs new DPS route is causing NZ problems! On the flight to DPS, Indonesia didn't provide enough Customs forms (two arrival cards are