What a landing. Thats a massive crack, even visible from afar in low-res video. If it would be a car I´d say next stop is the scrapheap. As ANA has begun retiring its older 767s (another one a few days ago) I wonder how old this one is. With lots of 787s arriving this plane wont be needed anymore and could be retired in place of another scheduled one.
727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 794 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 49778 times:
It would appear that the winds were quite gusty this day, which never happens in NRT (sarcasm). The reason that I say this is that the airplane is approaching slightly nose low. This only occurs on the 763 if you add speed to the approach speed as you would on a windy day. It would also appear that passing 100' or so agl the winds shifted as the airplane pitches to adjust to the loss of speed. The pilot stays with the approach but ends up touching down in a high sink condition, bounces, and subsequently comes down hard on the nose. The proper move would have been to go around and try it again, preferably on 34L as it doesn't have that giant hole on short final which makes the winds even worse.
flightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 649 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 49660 times:
WOW! Hopefully that was an older bird and not one of the brand new ones.
Planted on the mains, bounced, planted on the nose first, bounced, planted on mains again then slammed down the nose... Almost like the real life version of the that airbus video YouTube porpoising down the runway.
But if this ANA 767 will be repaired will come down to age. If its less than 10 years old it´ll likely fly again. But if its close to 20 years they wont do it as those aging planes are currently being wfu by ANA and hardly worth a penny.
Aquila3 From Italy, joined Nov 2010, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 49201 times:
Fore pure dialectic ( I really hope this will never happen again) what would have been the outcome with a CRFP 787?
No damage at all or, if limit passed complete destruction of the cabin?
Does the 787 still have longitudinal beams structure or does it rely only on its super rigid skin?
chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
nighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5205 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 47465 times:
Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 12): There was a Skyservice 767 which had a hard landing in PUJ years ago, they fixed it and it's flying daily for TCX now. Think the aircraft may actually have been on lease from TCX at the time...
It was indeed on lease from TCX at the time, and made a hard landing, I think it was in the Caribbean. Because it was on lease, they had to fix it, which involved flying a team of Boeing engineers down to the Caribbean, building a hanger around the aircraft, then cutting the fuselage to remove the broken section.
The aircraft is now back in service with TCX, and I flew on the aircraft 3 years ago. I was sat right where the crack used to be.
CM From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 46807 times:
Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 7): Does the 787 still have longitudinal beams structure or does it rely only on its super rigid skin?
The 787 is still a semi-monocoque design, with stringers and frames providing stiffening against body bending inside the skin.
Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 7): what would have been the outcome with a CRFP 787? No damage at all or, if limit passed complete destruction of the cabin?
Assuming you could get the 787 to perform the same bounce at landing (the flight controls are augmented to prevent it), the results of destructive static strength testing for body bending indicate the 787 will fair much better than any aluminum aircraft in this same scenario. The static test for body bending of the fuselage forward of the 787 wing was abandoned well past 100% ULF, after the body wouldn't break but the test fixture began to fail. Subsequently, large cuts were put in the skin and some frames were cut as well, in order weaken the structure and the test was resumed. The forward body still would not buckle, as you see in the ANA frame.
As you would expect from a first generation CFRP aircframe, testing has shown the 787 structure is quite conservatively designed.
kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12739 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 44559 times:
Wow, that was some touchdown!
The British AAIB recently released a report on an similar incident involving a Thomson 767 at Bristol in 2010, which makes interesting reading; the circumstances and the damage are similar to the ANA aircraft:
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13785 posts, RR: 100
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 44172 times:
I hope everyone is ok (no soft tissue injuries). I hope they'll all also fly again.
Quoting na (Reply 2): Thats a massive crack, even visible from afar in low-res video. If it would be a car I´d say next stop is the scrapheap.
It will matter on the internal damage. As others have noted, the exterior damage has had like repaired before. Like with your car, the decision rests with the insurance company.
Quoting Siren (Reply 19): Quoting 4holer (Reply 18):
But what would have happened if that would have been an MD-11?
Low blow... we already saw that happened to an MD-11 under similar conditions at NRT...
Yea, that solves the scrap/repair question.
Quoting CM (Reply 17): Assuming you could get the 787 to perform the same bounce at landing (the flight controls are augmented to prevent it), the results of destructive static strength testing for body bending indicate the 787 will fair much better than any aluminum aircraft in this same scenario.
I suspect the 787 will eventually have a lower insurance bill. (I suspect today it is higher being a new airframe with unknown (but bracketable) damage costs.)
Quoting CM (Reply 17): The static test for body bending of the fuselage forward of the 787 wing was abandoned well past 100% ULF, after the body wouldn't break but the test fixture began to fail.
Wimps. Grumman (with the F-14) showed one should continue until the airframe bounces off the ceiling.
Quoting CM (Reply 17): As you would expect from a first generation CFRP aircframe, testing has shown the 787 structure is quite conservatively designed.
Which will help Boeing remove some weight.
Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
: As with the Thompson 767 mentioned a couple of posts ago, this looks very much like damage from too hard a landing on the nose gear. In my 767 sim tra
: Wind (especially gusting) can be devastating to any aircraft and then you have wind-shear...that will ruin your day! A lot of people old enough remem
: 767 has conventional (cable+hydraulics) flight controls. Unless the autoland computers all completely and simultaneously lost their mind (in which ca
: This aircraft was delivered in April, 2003 so it's too young to be written off.
: I know it's young, but I wouldn't be too quick to make that assumption; the age and value of the aircraft will certainly feature in the assessment of
: That's a pretty scary video. Just glad that they landed without a big crash.
: Wow. I can just imagine the thoughts of the pax. I have no doubt several of them now have "a drinking problem" (aka Airplane).
: Reminds me of the FEDEX MD11 crash at NRT.
: Yes, indeed it could have worse.... Glad that nothing more happened and the airframe was stable enough for that landing. What you think after a exami
: NRT is quite a windy airport. I've flown into it probably two dozen times and have never experienced a smooth landing.
: First thing I thought of when I saw the video. The bounce is pretty much identical (less violent, of course, thankfully). That could have been much w
: Indeed; here's a report from another pilot, who landed shortly before the NH flight: "Landed at NRT around the same time. Probably just before the ai
: A few soiled seats I can imagine? That much be awful to experience as a passenger? I once experienced a long drop in a storm cloud going into Cairns,
: I don't see any cracks in the videos links posted by EY460 - just wrinkling. Am I missing something?
: Also this Air Algérie 738 damaged in a heavy landing at Sétif, Algeria (QSF) in 2008. http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20080314-0
: I wonder what it sounded like in the cabin near where it buckled.
: A similar thing happened to an OZ 767 on landing in CJU in 1992. The aircraft was just over a year old! It was repaired and then returned to service .
: I can imagine there might have been quite a bit of screaming during the last 10 seconds of the flight, based on how that thing was rocking around!!
: Several 767s have had this happen before. To my knowledge, all of them have been repaired. ...and that's exactly what precipitated this sort of damag
: The same type damage, "compression fracture", much like a broken collarbone, occurred to CN-RNT, Royal air Maroc. Once the crown buckled then relaxed
: You can't inflict the same damage on a CFRP fuselage. The failure mechanism of the material is very different. See Tom's comment... You didn't state
: That photo is from an article in Boeings' "Airliner" magazine. I imagine that Boeing conceals the identity of customers of aircraft involved in accid
: Looks like one of my landings! I believe the LAB incident was caused by a malfunction during a practice autoland. Anybody know about this? PS
: I don't think you thought this through, or you are taking a swipe at the 767 for something happening that has nothing to do with its life-cycle costs
: Apparently the nosegear was badly twisted (on the ANA 767); the impact was in excess of 5G.
: Good thing there is the 9G design requirement. Lightsaber
: http://avherald.com/h?article=45173104&opt=0 There's a video there (the OP's video isn't workIng?) That looked BRUTAL...how come there are so many
: Maintenance costs of the B767 is accounted for by JAL. At least they find that the maintenance costs of the B767 are inexpensive compared to the othe
: Do you know if JA610A taxied to the gate by itself after this happened, or do you think it was towed to its gate?
: You know, I've been watching it over and over and I'm not so sure. The aircraft has some special insignia painted right where the buckle appears and
: It's worth pointing out that a good-sized typhoon passed directly through Honshu overnight Tuesday/Wednesday here, and this would have been around the
: Same with TPE yesterday, understand they also had an incident which resulted n one of the runways closing.
: From Flightglobal: "It is not yet decided whether we will return the aircraft to service," says the ANA spokeswoman. Sounds like a truly serious damag
: Very true; I've sat on the terminal roof of Narita more than once and have seen some astonishing landings, statistically much higher than I have seen
: You mean for passenger seats etc ? it is not a civil airframe requirement. if the nose gear saw 5g, it does not translate to mean the passenger seats
: Thanks Tom, this was what I suspected as well. Failure models of CRFP parts look very different from metal parts, more similar to wood, if I can say
: Several have posted similar types of buckling incidents involving the 767-300. Is the 767-300 particularly prone to this type of damage, or has it hap
62 Flying Belgian
: That one is even "better", though I have no idea whether its fuselage sustained any damage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfaNapjz8K4
: Quoting na (Reply 57): Sounds like a truly serious damage. But as I said with many 787s coming in, not all 767s are needed anymore and ANA is accelera
: Nonsense...Of course you can, The striking forces don't change because the substrate is different, the damage will appear different than metal becaus
: The nose gear has no independant accelerometer (at least on a normal 767)...the closest one would be the pilot's seat normal accel. If that saw 5g it
: Just an idea, but. Aircraft are usually loaded so that the CofG is as far aft as possible. In fact some aircraft like A330 have a fuel system that ac
: Put an engine's weight on the tail of the 767 and watch a far worse outcome than what we witnessed on MD-11. The "crack" on this 767 would be a compl
: The 767 was not designed for a tail engine...so I don't understand the point of the above post??? That said, the video of the ANA 767 does give one th
: It shouldn't be. The difference between full fwd and full aft CG, in absolute terms, is on the order of ~10'. The change in actual loading of the gea
: I personally doubt it would be a write off like some have speculated. It is hard to estimate the cost, but I’ve seen an airplane with skin repair, f
: Also for clarification, the 9G requirement for forward acceleration(deceleration). Vertical deceleration is different. I can't recall which value but
: Can't they just build a new runway going in the direction of the wind?