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AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013  
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2235 posts, RR: 9
Posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7792 times:

Cost cutting measures being taken at AF include the slashing of 5,000 jobs over the next 18 months. Hopes are that most jobs will be lost though natural turnover and not through redundancies.

Stock market seems happy with the move. Wonder what the unions will have to say about this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18532668


Kafa, čaj, šraf?
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26860 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7752 times:

Thats going to be a nightmare and I can only imagine the strikes we will see . A Lot of work force to shed its a huge amount.

User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 512 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7682 times:

I don't expect a lot of resistance from the unions. AF says all staff reductions will be though natural attrition and early retirements.

Just a short term solution IMHO. AF will still be the old AF..


User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7635 times:

Quoting 76er (Reply 2):
AF says all staff reductions will be though natural attrition and early retirements.

Well the article says that The company estimates some 1,700 jobs could be lost through natural turnover.

That still leaves 3,300 jobs, no?



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 512 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7474 times:

Correct, taken care of by early retirement packages.

User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9304 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7440 times:

Quoting 76er (Reply 4):
Correct, taken care of by early retirement packages.
Quoting JoKeR (Reply 3):
That still leaves 3,300 jobs, no?

Our Paris bureau is reporting including attrition, 3,022 out of a 32,121 ground workers will go plus 1,506 of 13,226 flight attendants, and 594 out of 3,954 pilots. 2,056 are being sought to leave among the ground crew on voluntary departures.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2389 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6820 times:

Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter):
Wonder what the unions will have to say about this?

This is one thing the unions can't do anything about. As long as they respect seniority, AF management can fire whoever they want and call it cost cutting measures.

All the unions can do is sit in the sidelines and watch the action unfold.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6679 times:

They are also planning to retire / park most of there 744 and 343s over the winter. Only very few routes will remain.


NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineAmsterdam From Netherlands, joined Mar 2011, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5873 times:

They should take out 10.000 jobs to make real advances.
But they won't.
And their flying crews have to make more hours.
It's 2012 and still this company is lagging behind.
They won't make it with their current plans.


User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 627 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4254 times:

Quoting 76er (Reply 2):
I don't expect a lot of resistance from the unions. AF says all staff reductions will be though natural attrition and early retirements.

Just a short term solution IMHO. AF will still be the old AF..

Same opinion here. This plan has already been discussed with the unions, and they agreed. So no big strike to fear really I think...

But this is definitely a short term action, and the board will need to go further to reduce costs.

The main reason AF has lost its competitive, is the cost of administrative staff.
All these measures concern operational staff: pilots, FAs, ground operations staff... But nothing about the huge amount of people working on administrative tasks, especially in Paris.
During all the numerous mergers AF has been subjected to, a lot of jobs becoming doubled, tripled, even quadrupled, haven't been cut. And now people from the operational side have to pay the price for this very bad management...
I don't buy it.
The ratio between Plane Number / Staff Number is around 185 people/plane, while it must be something like 100 people/plane @ U2...
And as long as AF doesn't solve this "social" problem, the company will keep sinking...



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlineokAY From Finland, joined Dec 2006, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4130 times:

What you guys think, could such scenario happen that AF would actually go under? In such case, what would happen to KLM, which, as long as I know, is in better shape?

okAY


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3932 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6):
All the unions can do is sit in the sidelines and watch the action unfold.

Yes, the unions should sit on the sidelines and watch, but this is France we are talking about where the usualgeneral strikes will take place aling with slowdowns. The same situation would hold true in Italy


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4670 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

Quoting airproxx (Reply 9):
The ratio between Plane Number / Staff Number is around 185 people/plane, while it must be something like 100 people/plane @ U2...

While 185 might be too high, expecting it to get to the same level as U2 is unrealistic. Not only do they fly long haul routes with crew staying over, managing a hub and spoke network is far more complex than what U2 does, and thus requires more people. Not saying that it couldn't be lower though... far from it!



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineFURUREFA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 801 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

Quoting JRadier (Reply 12):
Quoting airproxx (Reply 9):
The ratio between Plane Number / Staff Number is around 185 people/plane, while it must be something like 100 people/plane @ U2...

While 185 might be too high, expecting it to get to the same level as U2 is unrealistic. Not only do they fly long haul routes with crew staying over, managing a hub and spoke network is far more complex than what U2 does, and thus requires more people. Not saying that it couldn't be lower though... far from it!

As a benchmark, United is about 120 per aircraft, excluding express aircraft, which many mainline employees handle.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12905 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2717 times:
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Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter):

Cost cutting measures being taken at AF include the slashing of 5,000 jobs over the next 18 months.

There goes the Aircraft washing crews.     
Quoting airproxx (Reply 9):
But this is definitely a short term action, and the board will need to go further to reduce costs.

   As noted:

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 16):
As a benchmark, United is about 120 per aircraft

Its a global market. Either run the operation efficiently enough or lose business.



Lightsaber

[Edited 2012-06-24 06:53:57 by srbmod]


Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 534 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2515 times:

First off, you never like to hear about redundancies. Losing a job, even if a great compensation package is given can be demoralizing to the workforce, and I hope for the best for all of those affected.

However, as countless threads and numerous (especially on this website) critics have pointed out AF's current situation is well past unsustainable. While I will concede that this is a first step in a long road to right the ship, I am happy they are taking some action. As a flier with 10k under my belt with AF this year and already another 15k booked, I am also delighted to here about how much more efficient CDG for AF and SkyTeam operations is becoming!



Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4161 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 2379 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 1):
Thats going to be a nightmare and I can only imagine the strikes we will see . A Lot of work force to shed its a huge amount.

This will be done by voluntary means and I think there is recognition of "where the company is" among the staff. Believe it or not, I dont think you will see any widespread unrest. Plus, Spinetta, who rumour has it is somewhat better at the old staff relations thing than Pierre Gurgeon was, is back at the helm.

[Edited 2012-06-24 06:54:14 by srbmod]


Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinebastew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1999 times:

I actually flicked through a copy of the Wall Street Journal (Europe) on my flight yesterday and the Air France job story was on page one.

Whether it is a fair way of measuring or not they had a comparison of the number of passengers per employee of europes large airlines. Air France was around 650. Lufthansa was around 830. BA was most 'efficient' at 910.


User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 1845 times:

Please keep the discussion relevant to the topic, which is AF jobs cuts. If you wish to discuss the merits of connecting at certain airports, please do so in a SEPARATE THREAD.

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