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Delta Suspends DTW-HKG  
User currently offlinecat3dual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 25710 times:

As per the latest published schedule, Delta will suspend flying nonstop DTW-HKG effective September 1, 2012. It is unclear whether or not this is a seasonal suspension.

On a positive note, KIX-GUM goes double daily in the winter; the second frequency is also on the 757.

[Edited 2012-06-23 21:27:11]

117 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7851 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 25436 times:

Is there any other route to HKG that DL serves to the US?

This route seems tumultuous, even when it was a NW route.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 25231 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
Is there any other route to HKG that DL serves to the US?

Nope....they will still offer NRT-HKG however. I'm curious if this is a suspension or a straight cancellation?


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7851 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25159 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 2):
Nope....they will still offer NRT-HKG however. I'm curious if this is a suspension or a straight cancellation?

Hmmm Do you think DL will do something from LAX or SEA to NRT or would it not work?



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4825 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25121 times:

good move by DL as it will result in a total cost savings of US$ 480,000 per flight i.e. 32 hours round trip x US$ 15,000 per hour at Total Operating Cost (which includes Variable/Direct/Indirect Fixed Costs).

Currently DTW-HKG operates 5 times per week hence per week savings is US$ 2.4 million alone !


User currently offlineaviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25069 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Hmmm Do you think DL will do something from LAX or SEA to NRT or would it not work?

DL currently has daily non-stops to both SEA and LAX from NRT, in addition to several other gateways across the country.



Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1432 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 24657 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
good move by DL as it will result in a total cost savings of US$ 480,000 per flight i.e. 32 hours round trip x US$ 15,000 per hour at Total Operating Cost (which includes Variable/Direct/Indirect Fixed Costs).
Currently DTW-HKG operates 5 times per week hence per week savings is US$ 2.4 million alone !

On that basis, shouldn't they cancel all their flights? The cost savings would be immense.
I think we might also need to consider the revenue loss?

[Edited 2012-06-24 00:53:40]


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User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 24629 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
good move by DL as it will result in a total cost savings of US$ 480,000 per flight i.e. 32 hours round trip x US$ 15,000 per hour at Total Operating Cost (which includes Variable/Direct/Indirect Fixed Costs).

Currently DTW-HKG operates 5 times per week hence per week savings is US$ 2.4 million alone !

That´s a weird calculation.... was the plane empty?? no pax or cargo??.... of course they will save money but i´m sure they were not losing 2,4million a week....

Any new plans for that spare plane ans slots in Narita??


User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 24362 times:

When I went through HKG last October, I loved seeing all the DL advertisements (even though I was on KL back to LHR). It is truly a shame that the city will only be served through NRT. With cancellations on the mainland and now HKG, it really seems that DL has struggled with China.

I find it even more disappointing considering there are two SkyTeam members based in China. It would seem that DL needs to work more closely with CZ and MU.



Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
User currently offlinenwa744tpa From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 67 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 24210 times:

DTW-HKG is to be moved to another city in the near future. I fly this route frequently, but do not have the authoriity to "announce" the location. Most of my flights are full, but apparently there are other cities that may get a better yield. This from the top level management.Sorry, I can't say anymore than that. HKG-DTW has various options. It will be reallocated to a higher yield location. take your pick airliners! (no-it is not just throught NRT)

[Edited 2012-06-24 02:28:26]

User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 23871 times:

Quoting nwa744tpa (Reply 9):
DTW-HKG is to be moved to another city in the near future. I fly this route frequently, but do not have the authoriity to "announce" the location. Most of my flights are full, but apparently there are other cities that may get a better yield. This from the top level management.Sorry, I can't say anymore than that. HKG-DTW has various options. It will be reallocated to a higher yield location. take your pick airliners! (no-it is not just throught NRT)

Well, I believe we know it isn't going to be CVG, MEM, SLC, or LGA. Also, as DL has tended to favor DTW over MSP, I cannot imagine that they would move the flight there. I also agree with several posters that some difficulty on this route may be caused by backtracking to DTW, which would also toss out ATL and JFK.

That leaves LAX and SEA. I think both are equally good options. LAX afaik only has CX direct, but with economy fares at £400-500 over the summer on AA.co.uk, I am not sure that is necessarily a yield booster. So, if it is higher yields they are looking for, I tend to believe they will choose SEA which already has good feed from their other hubs and AS feed thrown in. Also, SEA has no directs currently. While I would be the first to admit that I do not know the California air market well, there are also several directs out of SFO which could chew into LAX traffic.



Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2101 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 23722 times:

Quoting nwa744tpa (Reply 9):
It will be reallocated to a higher yield location.

What about JFK-NRT? If DL could get some good corporate traffic could NYC generate some good point-to-point yields compared to DTW, which I'd suspect would be more reliant on transfer traffic?



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 23600 times:

What about JFK-HKG? I know there's already non-stop NYC-HKG flights but it's a big market and DL could make it work.

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3419 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 23496 times:

Quoting nwa744tpa (Reply 9):
DTW-HKG is to be moved to another city in the near future. I fly this route frequently, but do not have the authoriity to "announce" the location. Most of my flights are full, but apparently there are other cities that may get a better yield. This from the top level management.Sorry, I can't say anymore than that. HKG-DTW has various options. It will be reallocated to a higher yield location. take your pick airliners! (no-it is not just throught NRT)

I would think SEA is the natural choice, this is also a past route from NW. If the rumors of DL increasing it's presence in SEA and taking on new overseas flying from SEA are true, then my money is on DL flying SEA-HKG-SEA. The aircraft could be an A-330 instead of a 744, and could offer decent connections via AS/QX and DL metal. Or a 777 ATL-SEA-HKG would be cool too, but more unlikely IMHO.

[Edited 2012-06-24 04:06:58]


AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4382 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 22875 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
good move by DL as it will result in a total cost savings of US$ 480,000 per flight i.e. 32 hours round trip x US$ 15,000 per hour at Total Operating Cost (which includes Variable/Direct/Indirect Fixed Costs).

Currently DTW-HKG operates 5 times per week hence per week savings is US$ 2.4 million alone !

How is this savings? You need to add into the equation the revenue from the flight and the loss of income derived from all sources. Your analysis is very weak and needs more information as to where you came up with those figures. Any more information would be welcome.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 988 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 22418 times:

The issue with HKG is that there is already too much competition out of most cities. Although there are no nonstops from SEA currently, I'm not sure there would be enough O&D demand in that market. My bet is on JFK-HKG as the replacement, although it's hard to tell whether DL would be willing to go head-to-head against CX. I'm surprised DL has not tried more nonstops from JFK to Asia thus far, but I suppose they really want DTW to work as the gateway to Asia.

User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 855 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 22385 times:

DL has no consistency in the HKG market. DTW to HKG can be a 77E one day and a 77L the next. NRT to HKG is even worse. One day a 767, the next an A330 then a 77E. My money is on SEA.

User currently onlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8453 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 22248 times:
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Sad to see Delta cancel their only mainland US to Hong Kong flight, Detroit is DL's natural place for such a flight. DL should NOT rely on Narita for its only flight to Hong Kong, Asia's second city. IF Detroit will not work then give JFK to HKG a try, the west coast is well covered by Cathay and United.

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3419 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 22054 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 15):
Although there are no nonstops from SEA currently, I'm not sure there would be enough O&D demand in that market.

One of the reasons I am sure SEA will get the service, plus that could free up an airframe doesn't it? SEA-HKG requires only 2 frames, does DTW-HKG require 3? The O/D does not need to make or break this flight, connections from AS/QX plus the feed DL can provide into SEA as well, would create enough passengers to make it work.

I guess this route would generate a good amount of cargo, would a 330 or 777 make more sense? I assume the 744 would be too much aircraft. This will free up a few seats everyday on the SEA-NRT and PDX-NRT flights for more O/D or connections to other DL destinations beyond NRT.

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 16):
DL has no consistency in the HKG market. DTW to HKG can be a 77E one day and a 77L the next. NRT to HKG is even worse. One day a 767, the next an A330 then a 77E. My money is on SEA.



Good bet IMO. Sounds like no matter what type they fly on SEA-HKG, it can easily be routed back in and out of the system via NRT. Plus this being an old NW route, DL most likely has the route authority already, if that's still applicable for this situation where DL wants to move to another US city.

[Edited 2012-06-24 06:25:16]


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User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4951 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 22024 times:
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Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 16):
DTW to HKG can be a 77E one day and a 77L the next.

Why does that matter? The on-board product is the same on both, and AFAIK, they have not had to make any tech stops on the westbound DTW-HKG when using the 77E....


User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7557 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 21810 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 11):
What about JFK-NRT?

DL already flies JFK-NRT daily with a 744



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineflyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1742 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 21311 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 12):
What about JFK-HKG? I know there's already non-stop NYC-HKG flights but it's a big market and DL could make it work.

I could see JFK happening:
*New terminal next year, good time to make a splash with a route like this
*Partnership with MU, and CZ-this route will help the overall portfolio from NYC, to China
*This will be another must fly out of NYC served



727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 21108 times:
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Regardless of mild backtracking, DTW allowed a large number of DL stations to enjoy one connection service to HKG. Moving the flight to LAX or SEA makes many more DL stations have to take 2 connections to get to HKG.

User currently offlineDTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 20622 times:

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 10):
I also agree with several posters that some difficulty on this route may be caused by backtracking to DTW,

There is no major backtracking issue with DTW. This flight was mainly used to connect to the East/Southeast USA with a few connections to the Midwest. I think anything west of ORD/MSP would connect through SFO/LAX.

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 22):
Regardless of mild backtracking, DTW allowed a large number of DL stations to enjoy one connection service to HKG. Moving the flight to LAX or SEA makes many more DL stations have to take 2 connections to get to HKG.

Agree. It was very convenient for the smaller town in the Midwest and East Coast for a 1-stop trip to HKG.


User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 20371 times:

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 23):
There is no major backtracking issue with DTW. This flight was mainly used to connect to the East/Southeast USA with a few connections to the Midwest. I think anything west of ORD/MSP would connect through SFO/LAX.

I agree, you would connect through SFO/LAX on a different carrier or be shot through NRT (through Seattle or LAX). I believe a direct from either of those airports would still pick up more feed without having to go way out of the way to Japan.



Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
25 LAXintl : Its been interesting to watch how NW(now DL) and UA experiences play out in the Pacific. While both were heavily focused on Japan, United long time ag
26 ExL10Mktg : "Consistency" in a market is offering a steady and predictable schedule which I believe Delta does here. While an a aviation enthusiast MIGHT change
27 peanuts : DL is in a bit of a quandary. They got NRT. They need a thriving non stop Mainland-Beyond as well. I'm not sure if they have the right equipment to so
28 BoeingGuy : I agree with everyone else. It's SEA. My second choice is ATL on a 77L. It's been speculated that DL will add some Asian cities from SEA, with PVG be
29 PHX787 : That's the sad truth. I think UA has more of an edge in HKG. That said, I see LAX-HKG easily on a 77L or 772. Easy.
30 enilria : LOL Exactly It's definitely moving to JFK. I had already heard they were going to announce a major new int'l route there in conjunction with the prom
31 CV880 : Makes sense, and there's no backhaul from east coast cities via the polar route. Mileage is not that much more than LAX-HKG either. Would be nice to
32 rwy04lga : It's got my vote!
33 Cubsrule : No, but there's some backhaul from the central time zone that wasn't an issue before. It's not a huge market, but as an example MSY-JFK-HKG is 600 mi
34 LAXintl : You think ? UA offers 7 flights at HKG -- nonstops to EWR, ORD and SFO along with regional flying to GUM, NRT, SGN and SIN.
35 NYCAdvantage : I will say that around September DL Should start paying less for Jet A fuel from the north east, in other word they could start competing from JFK wit
36 CV880 : But, JFK has the O&D and it doesn't have to all go to CX and UA/ EWR. DL's JFK/LGA presence will probably entice a few defections from CX/UA. The
37 TeamInTheSky : I still feel that for JFK to work, DL is going to have to sign a good number of corporate contracts that are currently with UA/CX. They will not have
38 CompensateMe : For DL's core Midwest/Eastern network, connections via NRT would be more sensible than LAX; significantly shorter total trip time with more of it spe
39 peanuts : If NYC grows as DL envisions it to grow for them, cities like HKG would have to be in the cards at some point. The fact that CX offers so many flight
40 flyguy1 : Exactly Any major east coast city/major mid-western city will connect fine to this potential flight. All the big cities have multiple dailies into JF
41 crAAzy : I find it a bit curious they would start a route like JFK-HKG when you have CX considering cutting it's JFK frequencies. I'd be surpised to see DL st
42 nomorerjs : UA and CX will be happy to route anyone that went through DTW via ORD.
43 flyguy1 : Supposedly, this is so they can use that plane towards replacing 747-400's into Europe, and its only 3 frequencies per week.
44 nwa744tpa : Ok- you guys (and maybe girls) have figured it out. All other trans-pacs from DTW are good, so no major changes except HKG.
45 Cubsrule : Seems like DL wants to have it both ways. They tell shareholders how DTW is strong because of the lack of competition, and pitch their dominance of D
46 Post contains images CV880 : It's no secret that DL wants to be #1 in NYC. The sooner that DL gets into terminal 4, the better. As far as connex at JFK, they may need to work on
47 Cubsrule : Well, sure. But they've argued that it's better to be number one by a mile in a smaller market (DTW) than number one by a bit in a big market (ORD).
48 HOONS90 : On the other hand, DTW-ICN will see a frequency increase for the winter from 5x weekly to daily. First time that DTW-ICN will be daily year-round. Pre
49 Squid : My money is on SEA. I think it is a logical jumping-off point. Traffic can easily be routed through Seattle from NYC as well as other hubs, and I thin
50 Post contains images yeogeo : I'll break it to you gently: That's delusional. Perhaps a connection could be made, but to get to HKG why would any right-minded midwesterner do such
51 Post contains images PHX787 : Leave it to us to make this sound like a huge gambling bet. Vegas should look to A.net for potential betting ideas.
52 FL787 : Makes sense if they move HKG from DTW to JFK. DTW to Asia ties are predominantly industrial whereas HKG and NYC are obviously world financial centers.
53 bennett123 : What impact will this have on DL operations in DTW?.
54 Post contains images RWA380 : Unless you live on the west coast, between DL and AS, many cities across America could enjoy DL 1 stop service to HKG via SEA. The feed AS provides w
55 bobnwa : I would say it will have minimal impact on the operation at DTW since is only one flight.
56 peanuts : Without HKG, DL/DTW still has more transpacific capacity than any single carrier transpacific gateway except UA/SFO. DTW is a sizeable hub with servi
57 CV880 : SEA would be a logical connecting point if it were connected to a multitude of cities to the east. UA has a huge advantage with single connects to HK
58 Post contains images peanuts : I still think merger mania isn't over yet. DL likes SEA. With or without AS. They can go organic growth or they can get closer yet with AS. People ha
59 PHX787 : You bring up a good point with AS. Every time a friend of mine comes back to the USA from Japan, they go through SEA from NRT and fly AS to here in t
60 DeltaL1011man : Doesn't mean a thing to PAXs unless they would rather hear the T800 over the GE90.
61 DeltaL1011man : Delta can start a JV with or without the TA. The TA supposedly makes it harder for Delta to cut capacity while the other airlines grow or stay the sa
62 cargolex : We're always hearing about how AS will merge with this or that carrier and what an advantage that would be. I, for one, don't believe that will happen
63 ANA787 : The only thing I can see being added from PDX is CDG and restarting HNL. Maybe also restarting Seoul nonstop from PDX.
64 BoeingGuy : Well said, and I agree. Does DL really want to fly to SCC or routes like SJC-LIH (that work for AS)? I still contend that most of AS's route structur
65 CompensateMe : x 3/4 of the population, and all of DL's core Eastern/Midwestern markets, is better served through DTW rather than SEA. x For DL's core Eastern/Midwe
66 BoeingGuy : That's a great reason for a merger, just to gain some gate space at an airport. I'm sure DL would love to get into intra-Alaska flying and up-and-dow
67 commavia : First, I would hardly say Delta is "dominant on its own metal from USA-Japan." In terms of schedule presence, United has just as good if not better o
69 netjetandy : Please make it Atlanta! I am absolutely shocked by this announcement. I also fly this at least 3 or 4 times a year and the flight is always full..comp
70 NASCARAirforce : So I am flying from BNA, STL, IND, MEM, CVG, CLE or even ATL and I want to fly to HKG - how is it benefitting me to fly through JFK? Now I am going a
71 SR117 : Completely agree with you, however, unfortunately, despite the wonderful connecting opportunities and the great facilities at DTW, it just wasn't eno
72 PIEAvantiP180 : I will put my money on JFK. They need more Asia converge to better compete with UA. And like some of the others have said its connecting two huge fina
73 RWA380 : This is what I've been saying, I think both AS & DL are lucky to have the bond they do. Any merger would kill what is the spirit of Alaska, and D
74 Post contains images ANA787 : PDX-ICN on KE A330 would have the greatest potential IMO. Alaska, as a codeshare partner, would also provide feed for such a flight.
75 United Airline : I suppose the new route can be SEA-HKG or LAX-HKG or JFK-HKG. Maybe MSP-HKG? They did it before. What about ATL-HKG?
76 DeltaL1011man : Sorry, not getting into the DL/AS pissing match. I think it will happen. some don't. No need to talk about it again. not even a wash. UAL has more fli
77 panamair : Actually, NRT-Mainland is kind of a wash. Taking peak season (say last half of July) NRT-Mainland: DL total weekly flights: 56 UA total weekly flight
78 DTWPurserBoy : My money is on DTW-MNL. Lots of O& D traffic.
79 PIEAvantiP180 : Don't forget the two daily flights into HND for DL. DTW/LAX-HND both on A332 I believe.
80 DeltaL1011man : Oh crap. Ha your right. I misread the UA timetable. I had ORD-NRT as 2x daily 777/744 but the 777 is ANA. So that put them on the same number of flig
81 peanuts : On NRT Interport flying DL has 41% more flights than UA. That's huge. UA clearly walked away from most of it. Granted, UA was also in the position to
82 ANA787 : Let's get a NRT-CGK, NRT-KUL and NRT-KHH.
83 commavia : And both JAL and ANA have more than double the flying of Delta. That's even more huge. But it's all irrelevant. The key is that the local Tokyo-Asia
84 CompensateMe : Yeah, and AA's going to launch a 773ER on the gold mine that is DFW-HKG, further forcing DL to rescind capacity. We've read the rhetoric on these for
85 commavia : Well I'm not going to compare DFW-HKG to DTW-HKG, or predict what impact any hypothetical AA DFW-HKG operation might or might not have on Delta, but
86 CompensateMe : Yes, it is. From the USA, its traffic flows are heavily segregated; and tourism between the USA and Asia (especially among USA POS) is weaker than mo
87 commavia : No, it's not. I have no idea what that means, but it doesn't matter - the market from the U.S. to Asia in general is hardly "niche." It's anything bu
88 CompensateMe : What shrinkage? - The total Narita operation is about the same size today that it was pre-merger. - Capacity between CONUS to Narita has remained con
89 DTWLAX : How is DFW less circuitous than DTW? DFW can connect only to the south and south east. DTW can connect to the northeast, the entire eastern seaboard,
90 FutureUScapt : DL/NW is down 12% in terms of seats at NRT versus where they were at 10 years ago, so no its not dead wrong to say that. If you consider only DL/NW NR
91 mogandoCI : ATL-PVG was also Skyteam hub-to-hub (DL + MU) ... unless you're arguing MU @ Shanghai is a tiny niche operation ??
92 commavia : And yet again, and for the last time - I was not referring only to CONUS-NRT, I was referring to NRT overall. Ten years ago, NW was still operating m
93 commavia : Nope - no need to put words in my mouth in order to conjure ridiculous things to then pull apart (per usual). China Eastern was a member of SkyTeam f
94 CompensateMe : It's darn close to being even; let's compare the pre-9/11 schedule (summer 2001) to this summer: CONUS - Narita 2001: JFK daily 744 DTW 11-weekly 744
95 CompensateMe : I went ahead and did it for you. Capacity into NRT today is most definitely similar to what it was 10 years ago.
96 commavia : ... and let us not forget the 20x weekly M11s Delta was operating on NRT-ATL/LAX/JFK in 2001. If you want to get a true apples-to-apples, pro forma c
97 CompensateMe : If we're discussing DL's dependence on the Narita hub, how do any of DL's per-merger flights -- especially a pair discontinued for nearly a decade pr
98 MaverickM11 : It doesn't have a choice. From where else are they going to fly to Asia beyond Japan? ATL hasn't worked outside of NRT, DTW has been hit and miss out
99 CODC10 : The parity between 2001 and 2012 in terms of frequencies is pretty interesting. The gauge changes, especially in the transpacific/interport sectors,
100 Post contains images commavia : Dear God. If you want to compare the size of this hub from 11 years ago to today, but you don't include Delta's flights in and out of NRT back then,
101 Post contains images Tdan : If DL thought DTW-HKG was hard, JFK-HKG will be a nightmare. The local market is huge, but CX controls it, particularly up front. Coach yields are tra
102 CompensateMe : Only on airliners.net would somebody argue that a hub is shrinking, then when proven wrong, say "well, if you count DL's two flights that operated a
103 NASCARAirforce : The point is, I don't want to go an hour out of my way and back (adding on 2 hours) if I am starting at CVG backtracking to JFK to then take my trip
104 FutureUScapt : I did compare (using summer 2002) - it's a 12% reduction. If that qualifies as "darn close," then yes, it's "darn close." Otherwise, it's not. I'm no
105 commavia : Ha! Only on A.net could you think you've proven me wrong. Whether you want to admit it or not - my original statement was correct: the capacity of th
106 MaverickM11 : For the record, JUL01-JUL12, total OAG NRT DL/NW seats are down 17%, departures are up 21%, and ASMs are down 24%. In other words capacity is down a
107 commavia : In addition, the original point I was making was that the Narita hub overall has not only seem capacity come down, but most specifically, and most im
108 CompensateMe : If you're comparing capacity trends to argue the relevance of the Narita hub, then it makes no sense to include PMDL's flights from the early 2000s a
109 mogandoCI : Sorry ... read your own post. You claim it was something DL "did not have" - an unconditional statement implying did not have during the entirety of
110 MaverickM11 : OK we can play this game. Comparing NW in JUL01 to DL in JUL12 @ NRT yields seats down 8% and ASMs down 10%. We are done here. Chinese carriers aren'
111 CompensateMe : What game are we playing? Above I copied & compared the two timetables, which yield a different answer than your source.
112 enilria : I'm not right 100% of the time when I guess, but my sources usually are. This one isn't a guess. If I'm not mistaken, they have not filed an applicat
113 LAXdude1023 : DL has no codeshares on CZ out of PVG.
114 mogandoCI : As long as they're bookable under a single fare quote then it's fine to the traveler. Just because a particular TAP flight does not contain a SQ code
115 DeltaL1011man : HKG isn't under the same bilateral as PEK/PVG. It is much, much more easy to get into. (China is easy right now, but normally they have to do DOT rou
116 Post contains images commavia : It makes total sense, because otherwise you're claiming that the hub has grown merely because two airlines become one - which is erroneous and false
117 Post contains images CompensateMe : If DL and AA were to merge, and somebody asserted that DFW hub is one of the few to sustain growth during the 2000s, you'd argue they're wrong since
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