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Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?  
User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 703 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17205 times:

Hi, apologies if this should have been discussed at length before.

To my knowledge, LH is the only airline that has fitted its A340-600 aircraft with lower deck lavatories in order to increase seat capacity (LH is also the airline with most pax on this aircraft type). Obviously, other operators of that type are not interested in this configuration.

But why aren't there any other airliners that can be equipped with lavatories on the lower deck? I'm especially thinking about the A330, which is identical to the A340 in many aspects.


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22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17188 times:

I flew with a A330 with lower deck LAVs, a very cramped 332. Novair to Thailand from Arlanda, my last cattle class transport ever.

User currently offlineEBGARN From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17188 times:

The A330-200 Novair operated had lower lav's, so I suppose the whole A330/340 family had it as an option.

It consumes quite a lot of cargo space though, I guess that is why LH only has it on the A346.



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User currently offlinemickey90 From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17102 times:

Thomas Cook Scandinavia also has lower deck lav's on their a332 but not on their a333 as far as I know. I once flew with their a332 from GOT to CUN and thought it was a cool option.

I think AI kept the option with the lav's on the lower deck when they took over Novair's a332's



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User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3065 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17045 times:

On the A330s and A340s equipped with lower deck lavs, are the lavs accessed by a stairway or by an elevator? Also, are all the lavs on these aircraft on the lower deck, or are there still some on the main deck as well?


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User currently offlinemickey90 From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 16741 times:

Quoting TSS (Reply 4):
On the A330s and A340s equipped with lower deck lavs, are the lavs accessed by a stairway or by an elevator? Also, are all the lavs on these aircraft on the lower deck, or are there still some on the main deck as well?

Lavatories on the lower deck are accessed by stairs and are for economy passengers. Business and first class passengers has their own lavatories on the main deck.



It's better to be in the air wishing you were on the ground than being on the ground wishing you were in the air
User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 16648 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Thread starter):
But why aren't there any other airliners that can be equipped with lavatories on the lower deck? I'm especially thinking about the A330, which is identical to the A340 in many aspects.

Quite simply because it eats up cargo capacity, yes you gain some more seats upstairs but the cargo loss is probably greater, especially if you also want the lower deck crew rest as well. The charter companies don't rely on cargo so that's why they have it installed and in LH's case only on the -600 because it's big enough to do both. Virgin, in typical fashion, promised lower deck sleeping cabins for upper class when they first ordered the -600 but (sensibly) realised there was more revenue in cargo down there.


User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1724 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16437 times:

To increase containerized cargo space, DL is removing the crew rest from the aft cargo compartment on their A332 and converting the entire bulk cargo compartment into crew rest.

The reconfiguration will start in the spring of 2013.


User currently offlinecaaardiff From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 16103 times:

I'm not sure of the exact registrations, but i think all of the MyTravel A330-200's that are now with TCX were fitted with downstairs lavs.
The original TCX A330's didn't have them.


User currently offlineviscount630 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 12802 times:
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Virgin A340-600s have them as well  


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User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 12674 times:

Quoting viscount630 (Reply 9):
Virgin A340-600s have them as well  

VS only have the crew rest compartment downstairs on the A346


User currently onlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 11347 times:

It's unlikely a U.S. carrier would have lavs downstairs because of the A.D.A. Disabled people would not be able to use them.

I only see the lavs downstairs being an advantage for cattle-car ULCC and charter operators who don't carry cargo.



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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 11111 times:

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 11):
It's unlikely a U.S. carrier would have lavs downstairs because of the A.D.A. Disabled people would not be able to use them.

I doubt that would be a problem provided there was at least one lavatory on the main deck which disabled passengers could use. That's the case on LH A346s which have one Y class lavatory on the main deck in addition to the 5 downstairs. And the 2 F and 3 J class lavatories are all on the main deck.


User currently offlineJHCRJ700 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9251 times:

Are there any pics of the downstairs lavs?


RUSH
User currently offlinealphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 568 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9148 times:

Quoting mickey90 (Reply 3):

Thomas Cook Scandinavia also has lower deck lav's on their a332 but not on their a333 as far as I know. I once flew with their a332 from GOT to CUN and thought it was a cool option.

The former MyTravel A332s all have lavs downstairs which occupy Hold 3, and leaves space for only 7 LD-3s in Hold 4 (only if the rear LD-3 in part of Hold 5 is fitted) - the other Thomas Cook a/c have the lavs in the cabin. The lavs downstairs were thought to increase seat capacity in the cabin, and are accessed via a stairway - only issue is there is a requirement to have 1 of the cabin crew downstairs to ensure nobody falls!


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8886 times:

Quoting JHCRJ700 (Reply 13):
Are there any pics of the downstairs lavs?

The stairs and one of the 5 lower-deck lavs on a LH A346.


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User currently offlineferminbrif From Venezuela, joined Dec 2010, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8017 times:

In my opinion as a frequent economic fare traveler, it's much better lavatories in the lower deck in order to avoid annoying odor coming from the lavatories. Although I know airlines don't care about that but LH and some other.......

User currently offlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 697 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6892 times:

Quoting ferminbrif (Reply 16):
In my opinion as a frequent economic fare traveler, it's much better lavatories in the lower deck in order to avoid annoying odor coming from the lavatories.

There is that.

In my opinion, the biggest additional advantage of the downstairs lavatories is that they reduce waiting times. In a normal upstairs lavatory configuration, there's two or four lavatories or groups of lavatories. If you end up waiting in queue for one where someone is taking a long time, you'll have a long wait. With all the lavatories grouped downstairs, everyone is in the same queue and random variation in the waiting times averages out.

Plus I like the walk to the lower deck.


User currently offlineAddictedMAN From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2012, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6455 times:

Quoting caaardiff (Reply 8):
I'm not sure of the exact registrations, but i think all of the MyTravel A330-200's that are now with TCX were fitted with downstairs lavs.

I have flown MAN-MBJ-MAN on G-MDBD a few years ago. That had downstairs lavs. Just 1 upstairs lav behind the cockpit for premier passengers and flight crew.


User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1797 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5604 times:

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 11):
It's unlikely a U.S. carrier would have lavs downstairs because of the A.D.A. Disabled people would not be able to use them.

Well I doubt this is the case as not a lot of US operate the A330 and certainly no one operates the A340.

There are lower lavatories in the A380s (EK, SQ, AF, LH, Korean, QF) lol since the A380 has literally 2 passenger floors. But, Im sure the poster meant on a one-level aircraft. 



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User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5283 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4556 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
I doubt that would be a problem provided there was at least one lavatory on the main deck which disabled passengers could use.

   There's no ADA problem with lower-deck lavs as long as you have an accessible lav or two.



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User currently offlineflyglobal From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 567 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4507 times:

Actually, since I once flew Economy on LHs 346 and know about the Lavs, when I fly Business, I still use the Economy Lavs downstairs (of course not in high frequent times).
I think the downstairs ones are better then LHs Business Lavs.

With the LAVs LH also has the Crew Rest and the ECO Kitchen down there. Food comes per elevator of course.

There is no one placed there to whatch downside, but one FA is around and from time to tome checks that there are not more then a no of passengers there (I think 5 or 6), due to oxigen masks limited.

regards

Flyglobal


User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4459 times:

I have flown the LH 346 with the downstairs lavs. And it is correct that there is one at the rear of economy for disabled passengers.

While I think in theory that it's a great idea, in practice there are some problems. On one particular flight, there was the strong smell of urine downstairs. I wondered if there was an issue of the ability to properly clean that area or if there is inadequate ventilation. They have a small alcove where they put out some crackers.cookies for snacks and encourage people to stand down there around the toilets for passengers to stretch their legs. Ugh! There really is no other place to stand. The seating comfort on the LH A346 is seemingly the tightest in their fleet and if you sit on the inside of the four seat section, you really need to get out, especially if the person in front of your reclines his seat...and they always do. But, I have to admit that stairs in an airplane, A346 or B747, is kinda neat.


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