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TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes  
User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 678 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11512 times:

Can this even be real? According to this report, a TSA agent opened jar labelled "Human Remains", stirred it with her finger, and spilled much of it on the floor - against the passenger's warnings and in violation of TSA policy. She then laughed at the passenger when he frantically tried to gather his grandfather's ashes from the terminal floor:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/2...s-in-confrontation-with-passenger/


Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12135 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11467 times:

This TSA troll needs to be fired.

Napilitano needs to go to this family and personally apoligize for the TSA and DHS.


User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11421 times:

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):
Can this even be real?

I've heard too many insane, but true, stories to believe that it can't be. But it would of course be helpful to hear the story told by a neutral observer, which seems unlikely to happen... was the passenger confrontational, was a supervisor involved, was the labelling of the container as required, that sort of thing.

If it really did happen as reported, it's another example of a small-minded person abusing the power that (s)he was given.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 977 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10686 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 2):
was the labelling of the container as required, that sort of thing.

The article clearly stated that the jar was labeled as human remains.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10649 times:

If its any consolation, "ashes" are just the ground remains of multiple people's bones which come out of the cremulator.

Almost certainly hardly any of the material dropped will have come from the grandfather in question.


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21511 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10420 times:

That's not legal in the USA. Not that it doesn't happen, but when crematoriums are caught doing it purposely, there can be criminal charges filed.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3395 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10389 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
This TSA troll needs to be fired.

Fired? She committed a crime. She should have left in the back of a patrol car with all security tape copies already properly collected.


User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2389 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10034 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 4):
If its any consolation, "ashes" are just the ground remains of multiple people's bones which come out of the cremulator.

Almost certainly hardly any of the material dropped will have come from the grandfather in question.

I'm sorry having to correct you. The urn actually contains to a very large extent the ashes (and ground bones) from the specific person. Before cremation, a little stone bearing an individual number is put into the cask, and this stone is also buried with the ashes.

When a human body is burned with the cask, the lighter ashes (coming from the wood) are blown away, while the ashes from the body have a much higher specific weight. That way, the ashes are retained and separated.


Here are the answers from an actual undertaker who is writing a German-language blog: http://bestatterweblog.de/krematorium/


David

[Edited 2012-06-27 03:36:10]


Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9936 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
Napilitano needs to go to this family and personally apoligize for the TSA and DHS.

She'll (Napalitano) just support the agent claiming she is "just doing her job"...that is where we are at today...Sad...


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 952 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9157 times:
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Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):
Can this even be real?

we're talking about TSA here and you're asking if this "can be real"

I'm a corporate pilot, and TSA is the best thing that's ever happened for our industry


User currently offlinegizmonc From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8581 times:

I have been in the airline industry for over 22 years and personally I think TSA is a F __CKING JOKE. This one really bites big time. What is TSA going to do this time they have done so much. Just a few days ago I recently stopped at the checkpoint to ask a question and the reply I got was RUDE and CONDENSENDING from the TSA agent. I don't know about other cities but when you look at the TSA group who mans the STL TSA screening area. They are a bunch of MISFITS. Always to many I guess that is how someone came up the the phrase TSA= THOUSANDS STANDING AROUND.

User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6088 posts, RR: 29
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7950 times:
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Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 7):
The urn actually contains to a very large extent the ashes (and ground bones) from the specific person. Before cremation, a little stone bearing an individual number is put into the cask, and this stone is also buried with the ashes.

That is correct. I have a friend who worked 40 years in the cemetery and cremation business. He was told me many interesting stories, but he always said they cremation of bodies was done one at a time and you got back the ashes from your loved one.

She should have mailed the remains, which is what my family has done; twice.

A couple of funny stories: My grandmother died in 1992 and we had her cremated. My dad brought her remains back in the trunk of his car and then put them in our house. In 1994 my mother's sister wanted them so my mom put them in a box and mailed them to her. Two years later my grandfather died and my aunt had him cremated and mixed his remains with my grandmother. My aunt then mailed 1/2 the mixed remains to my mom. So grandma's remains went through the mail twice. I always joke around how grandma got a great tour of the postal service.

In 2005 my mother put some of the ashes in a small urn for me and gave it to me. She put them in the front pocket of my suitcase and I forgot about them. I flew twice with that suitcase (checked baggage), took two road trips, and one train trip before I rediscovered my grandparent's remains. They are now safely on a shelf in my house.

Quoting gizmonc (Reply 10):
TSA group who mans the STL

They are slow. I go to STL a lot (A gates) and the line there takes longer, but is shorter, than the lines at DTW.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7886 times:
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Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):
Can this even be real? According to this report, a TSA agent opened jar labelled "Human Remains", stirred it with her finger, and spilled much of it on the floor - against the passenger's warnings and in violation of TSA policy. She then laughed at the passenger when he frantically tried to gather his grandfather's ashes from the terminal floor:

Before my dad passed away in 1961, he requested that he be cremated and his ashes "tossed to the four winds." The local department of health had different ideas on the matter, and his urn was delivered to us sealed. I had my 20-year-old cat cremeated when he passed away and it was the same thing.

I can't imagine where remains are returned to a client as loose dust.   


[Edit] Relatives gave him a jar sealed with masking tape???? That's nasty. No wonder the TSA called his bluff.


User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6088 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7702 times:
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Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 12):
I can't imagine where remains are returned to a client as loose dust.


[Edit] Relatives gave him a jar sealed with masking tape???? That's nasty. No wonder the TSA called his bluff.

My grandparent's remains were in "sealed" container, but it wasn't all that sealed. All you had to do is unscrew the lid and you were in. I have had two cat cremated at their ashes were returned to me in urns not unlike the ones my grandparents were in, just smaller.

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 12):
Before my dad passed away in 1961, he requested that he be cremated and his ashes "tossed to the four winds." The local department of health had different ideas on the matter

My dad's mother wanted to be tossed into the river, in Pittsburgh, off the Smithfield Street bridge. I am sure the city wouldn't have liked it, but dad and I just walked across the bridge and when nobody was looking tossed the urn in the river.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 6859 times:
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Quoting falstaff (Reply 13):
I am sure the city wouldn't have liked it, but dad and I just walked across the bridge and when nobody was looking tossed the urn in the river.

Not to worry.

With all the the coal-mining waste that comes up the Monongahela, ashes would be reduced to atomic particles in seconds.


User currently offlinefrmrCapCadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 6180 times:

IIRC, in Washington state ashes are not considered 'human remains'. They are obviously 'remains', but they are mineral remains at that point. There are some rules regarding disposal, but families are generally free to do what they want. And I have never seen an enforcement incident.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineZudnic From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 21 hours ago) and read 4404 times:

Just another example of the absurdity of TSA rules. If you want to get a dangerous powder onto an airplane, label it "human remains." Billions of dollars in Security Theater circumvented.

User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 4111 times:

My mom, after watching 'Throw Momma From the Train', requested that I toss her off the Forth Rail Bridge, near her native Edinburgh. Yeah, sure Ma   Tossed off the 7 train over Sunnyside Yards was what she got.

Not really, I'm waiting on cousins so we can go over together and return our parents, their other expenses have priority.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinemanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 3930 times:

Most TSA agents would not have found a job with the good ole private security we had back in the day.
If the guy punched that TSA drone there should be no charges filed against him.


User currently offlinerobsaw From Canada, joined Dec 2008, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 16):
Just another example of the absurdity of TSA rules. If you want to get a dangerous powder onto an airplane, label it "human remains." Billions of dollars in Security Theater circumvented.

Doesn't mean it can't be xray'd or swabbed and tested for explosive residue.


User currently offline135mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 412 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 3190 times:
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Quoting g500 (Reply 9):
Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):
Can this even be real?

we're talking about TSA here and you're asking if this "can be real"

I'm a corporate pilot, and TSA is the best thing that's ever happened for our industry

So...are we missing something here? Are you defending her actions and complete disregard for the respect of the deceased and the man carrying the remains? Or, are you just defending the need for the TSA?


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5595 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 18 hours ago) and read 3050 times:

Quoting 135mech (Reply 20):
So...are we missing something here? Are you defending her actions and complete disregard for the respect of the deceased and the man carrying the remains? Or, are you just defending the need for the TSA?

You missed something.... the word corporate. TSA has driven many of his passengers away from airlines, as planes with less than 70 seats (IIRC) do not need to be screened (nor do their passengers).



Also, a link was posted elsewhere, where TSA is COMPLETELY DENYING THE INCIDENT EVER HAPPENED.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offline135mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 412 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 18 hours ago) and read 3038 times:
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Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 21):
You missed something.... the word corporate. TSA has driven many of his passengers away from airlines, as planes with less than 70 seats (IIRC) do not need to be screened (nor do their passengers).



Also, a link was posted elsewhere, where TSA is COMPLETELY DENYING THE INCIDENT EVER HAPPENED.

LOL yeah, it has been a shift (from what I have witnessed) of people finding other means of transportation due to the problems caused with dealing with the TSA.

It's sad that they are denying this incident, individual people who should never have been put into "power" positions, were hired out of the rapid necessity of creating and swiftly building the TSA and are not being held accountable.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 18 hours ago) and read 3002 times:

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):

TSA officers are human just like us so that means they too have fetishes.    Whatever floats your boat. Bad TSA agent. This is sad and the fact that she LOL at the guy trying to catch Grandpa's cremains! Closest I ever got to cremains was my first year. I was on the ticket counter and a woman comes up checking in; this before bag bees. She had a teepot/trophy looking thing. (An urn) Not familiar with cremation as I'm Jewish and it's slam bam burry you mam. Anyway, she wants to check her ornate looking teapot thing. (before bag fees). I told her she could easily fit it under her seat or even the overhead. She then told me. "Aunt Bedillia don't care! She's in there!" She had to sign a limited liability realease for Aunt Bedillia and her urn. And I did place Aunt Bedillia in one of our tubs. I guess she made it to MCO with flying colors. I think Aunt Bedillia wanted to join MIckey Mouse.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 18 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

Most of the folks I went to school with (university) figured that the TSA was a knee jerk reaction and that it would turn out badly. Sorry to see that we were right. Then again, my department was Criminal Justice and we had folks that were actual research criminologists amongst us. More traveler should push their representatives to get their local airports out of the TSA, as should the airlines. Amtrak actually threw TSA out of the Savannah, Georgia passenger station after they tried their nonsense there and most other railroads are maintaining the line-we'll share our information with you but you'll follow company rules when on railroad property.


"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
25 zippyjet : Though far from perfect, what's the alternative? The private companies (I'm not going to name names) but, a lot of the people they hire couldn't get
26 Maverick623 : That argument makes people sound lazy. There's a whole host of better options, a bunch of which gets posted everytime we have a thread like this. So
27 Post contains images Mir : I won't defend the agent for laughing about it - that's just wrong, and justifies some punishment on its own - but I can understand why they'd want t
28 skywaymanaz : There was some kind of event nearby that TSA was asked to screen for. I don't recall the details on what type of event but TSA was told to only scree
29 Maverick623 : This is exactly what DHS was counting on when it issued the badges. Make no mistake, their intent is to pulverize the Constitution and turn this coun
30 Post contains links and images flyingturtle : ...historical remark: The various mobs in their brown shirts were active much earlier, for example the Beer Hall putsch in 1923. Non-Nazis were openly
31 vegas005 : You want to see screening done correctly then come to the Zurich airport. I have said it numerous times, but Zurich is fast, professional, courteous a
32 B6MoneyGuyJFK : When I read this story.. it really burned me up! I don't know.. this does sound like something that the TSA could do..
33 Post contains images zippyjet : Like your ideas but it seems harder to get rid of government bloat than start it up. And believe it or not, the private ones at least at BWI make the
34 Maverick623 : I do not agree. They need to be abolished, period. Every airport I've been through in Europe is like that. MAN, DUB, ZRH, BCN, MAD, LHR... Private sc
35 KC135TopBoom : Correct. Well General Aviation, which includes corproate flying is not subjected to most ot the TSA rules or CFR Title 14 part 1542. That's how I see
36 Post contains images skywaymanaz : The ONE good thing I'll say about TSA hiring is at least everyone speaks English. From the late 90's onwards there were a number of security firms th
37 Maverick623 : Which is why corporate flying is booming, at least relative to the bust cycle we're in. Like I said, a page straight out of the "how to break the pop
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