Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 5  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 49449 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

As the previous one become too long, as well as giving the request to include "Delivery" into the topic, we are opening a new thread for discussion making the disclosure about the link to the previous one:

787 Production Thread Part 4 (by LipeGIG May 30 2012 in Civil Aviation)


Please enjoy the website!


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
251 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31003 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 49508 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

So we currently stand at 13 deliveries (with 11 airframes flown out) between All Nippon Airways and Japan Airlines. Qatar Airways' first deliverable frame will soon be on her way to the Farnborough Airshow for static and aerial displays, followed by a return to PAE for final outfitting and then delivery. Air India has at least three airframes ready for delivery whenever they can find the time/money/will to take them and by the end of the year we should see first deliveries to United Airlines, China Southern, LAN, LOT Polish Airlines and Ethiopian.

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13134 posts, RR: 100
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 49435 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Part of the discussion was work after the plane rolled out of the assembly line:
"ZA135 (LN 66) still had a about 300 small jobs to be completed but as Boeing get further into regular production, the number of these jobs will shrink."

Darn. That was supposed to be the first to roll off the line complete.

From:
http://nyc787.blogspot.com/
(new post tonight, worth reading)


We're currently in the stage where Boeing is ramping up production to 5 788s/month. I look forward to the ~10 788s per month in 2013! (Note: Just a few shy of 120 for the year, per current plan.)

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
China Southern

I thought Hainan would receive theirs before China Southern? I didn't see them on your list.


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31003 posts, RR: 86
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 49421 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 2):
Darn. That was supposed to be the first to roll off the line complete.

I doubt a 767-300ER rolls off the line with no pending jobs, and they've been building them for decades.  


User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3560 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 49377 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 2):
Darn. That was supposed to be the first to roll off the line complete.

I believe it was to roll out with no rework/mods required.. No plane rolls out complete.. and has no additional work done on the flight line. Granted 300 jobs seems high however 100 could have been held up for a missing component on one job that must be installed before being buried... once the line is moving this number will probably average 75-100 open jobs.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7578 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 49168 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 2):
(Note: Just a few shy of 120 for the year, per current plan.)

Just out of curiosity (and because I'm horrible at math) if this becomes a case, how long would it take before all the current orders as of now are filled?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineworkhorse From France, joined Jul 2005, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 48835 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
United Airlines, China Southern, LAN, LOT Polish Airlines and Ethiopian

What about RAM (Royal Air Maroc)?


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 48604 times:

Do the current GE engines include PIP1? When will the PIP2 engines be delivered? And will they be retrofitted if a customer wants that?

User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 48569 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 2):

Part of the discussion was work after the plane rolled out of the assembly line:
"ZA135 (LN 66) still had a about 300 small jobs to be completed but as Boeing get further into regular production, the number of these jobs will shrink."

Darn. That was supposed to be the first to roll off the line complete.

300 is pretty good, and probably close to the normal "no travelled work" number. All the work that's done on the flightline (and in paint) is a "job" in Boeing parlance and all that work drops before the planes actually reach the end of the final assembly line.

That number can never be zero because the plane isn't complete when it hits the end of final assembly.

Tom.


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5762 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 48212 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 4):
I believe it was to roll out with no rework/mods required.. No plane rolls out complete.. and has no additional work done on the flight line. Granted 300 jobs seems high however 100 could have been held up for a missing component on one job that must be installed before being buried... once the line is moving this number will probably average 75-100 open jobs.

This one is in paint and all the jobs that had to be done were small. It took them about 3 weeks to finish off the 300 jobs on LN 66 so going forward the amount time to finish off the small jobs should shrink to less than a week in my opinion.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2708 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 44914 times:

Delivered to Date, 13 aircraft:

L/N 8 - JA801A - 9/25/2011 - NH (ANA)
L/N 24 - JA802A - 10/13/2011 - NH (ANA)
L/N 31 - JA805A - 12/30/2011 - NH (ANA)
L/N 41 - JA807A - 1/12/2012 - NH (ANA)
L/N 9 - JA804A - 1/13/2012 - NH (ANA)
L/N 23 - JA822J - 3/25/2012 - JL (JAL)
L/N 33 - JA825J - 3/25/2012 - JL (JAL)
L/N 40 - JA806A - 3/29/2012 - NH (ANA)
L/N 42 - JA808A - 4/14/2012 - NH (ANA)
L/N 37 - JA826J - 4/25/2012 - JL (JAL)
L/N 38 - JA827J - 4/25/2012 - JL (JAL)
L/N 47 - JA809A - 6/20/2012 - NH (ANA)
L/N 48 - JA810A - 6/24/2012? - NH (ANA)

Next Up:
Shown on "All Things 787" as "Final Preps for Delivery":

L/N 56 - JA812A - 6/??/2012 - NH (ANA)
L/N 51 - JA811A - 7/??/2012 - NH (ANA)
L/N 58 - A7-BCB - 7/??/2012 - QR (Qatar)
L/N 7 - JA803A - 7/??/2012 - NH (ANA) Awaiting first flight
L/N 49 - ET-???? - 7/??/2012 - ET (Ethiopian) Awaiting first flight

L/N 29 - VT-AND - ?/??/2012 - AI (Air India)
L/N 46 - VT-ANI - Mid/2012 - AI (Air India) (Charleston)
L/N 35 - VT-ANH - TBD - AI (Air India)

L/N 66 - JA813A - TBD - NH (ANA) Awaiting first flight
L/N 67 - JA???? - TBD - NH (ANA) Awaiting first flight
L/N 68 - CC???? - TBD - LA (LAN) Awaiting first flight


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7578 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 44568 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 10):
L/N 58 - A7-BCB - 7/??/2012 - QR (Qatar)

Is this going to be delivered before or after the airshow?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 44528 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 11):
Is this going to be delivered before or after the airshow?

From the last thread someone said after because it will return to PAE after the airshow.



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlinesonomaflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 44528 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 11):

After the airshow, it will fly back to PAE for final fit out then deliver to QR.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 42241 times:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...s-at-14-per-month-787-rate-373494/

14 a month, thats a lot and about the rate of 737 deliveries 12 years or so ago.
I wonder how long it will take until all the early frames which still need heavy mods are being delivered.


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 42142 times:

It seems JALs first 4 frames have the non PIP1 engines, block 4. With PIP2 the GE will be at or better than SPEC and RR has to do a third PIP to get to SPEC. Anyway its nice for the airlines that these upgrades will be available in the future, getting even better engines with time.

Today one frame should be delivered for ANA, the third this month. I wonder if July will be the first month with more than 3 delivered?


User currently offlineUA933 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 42059 times:

So the PIPs can be implemented also on the birds that have already been delivered?

BTW, when can we expect to see a UA in full colors? Delivery is scheduled for September.



united - It's time to fly!
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 42003 times:

Quoting UA933 (Reply 16):
So the PIPs can be implemented also on the birds that have already been delivered?

Yes. You have to swap the engines to implement it.

Quoting UA933 (Reply 16):
BTW, when can we expect to see a UA in full colors? Delivery is scheduled for September.

If they're on a normal schedule, they should be out of paint in August or early September to make a September delivery.

Tom.


User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 41988 times:

http://paineairport.com/kpae5183.htm

pic of JA803A



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineUA933 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 41926 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 17):
Yes. You have to swap the engines to implement it.

I assume that Boeing / GE will "give" these engines away free of charge? Bringing the plane up to original spec should not result in additonal cost to the airlines?!



united - It's time to fly!
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 41775 times:

Quoting UA933 (Reply 19):
I assume that Boeing / GE will "give" these engines away free of charge? Bringing the plane up to original spec should not result in additonal cost to the airlines?!

Unless they have agreed to pay less per frame in the endless epic delay story of the program I would say yes.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 41765 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 15):
It seems JALs first 4 frames have the non PIP1 engines, block 4. With PIP2 the GE will be at or better than SPEC and RR has to do a third PIP to get to SPEC. Anyway its nice for the airlines that these upgrades will be available in the future, getting even better engines with time.

As the 787GE engines are now delivering what was promised and soon more I´d rather see GE concentrating of the 748I engines now which need similar treatment so the 748I overdelivers soon also. They are the same family as the 787 engine so that sounds like a task that should be solved.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31003 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 41531 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting na (Reply 21):
As the 787GE engines are now delivering what was promised and soon more I´d rather see GE concentrating of the 748I engines now which need similar treatment so the 748I overdelivers soon also.

The GEnx2B-67 at service entry already incorporated PiP1 from the GEnx1B family. GE is planning a PiP1 for the GEnx2B that will reduce the SFC shortfall from the current 2.7% to around 1.1% when it enters service later next year and both GE and Boeing have committed to additional performance upgrades to reduce or eliminate payload restrictions on longer-range routes for cargo operators (the MZFW and MTOW boost are probably part of this).


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13134 posts, RR: 100
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 41437 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Does anyone have an estimate of 788 range by line number?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
I doubt a 767-300ER rolls off the line with no pending jobs, and they've been building them for decades.

Agreed. 300 is just high.

Quoting kanban (Reply 4):
Granted 300 jobs seems high however 100 could have been held up for a missing component on one job that must be installed before being buried... once the line is moving this number will probably average 75-100 open jobs.

  

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
how long would it take before all the current orders as of now are filled?

About six years. In other words, until the line pace picks up even more, do not expect significant new 787 orders.    So Boeing has an incentive to further increase the rate of 787 deliveries.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 8):
That number can never be zero because the plane isn't complete when it hits the end of final assembly.

No doubt. Below a hundred wouldn't be worthy

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 9):
t took them about 3 weeks to finish off the 300 jobs on LN 66 so going forward the amount time to finish off the small jobs should shrink to less than a week in my opinion.

That one week seems very appropriate. Time to get those mechanics back indoors onto the surge line!   

Quoting UA933 (Reply 19):
I assume that Boeing / GE will "give" these engines away free of charge?

Almost. The airline must pay RR or GE (depending on the engine vendor) an equivalent fee for the cycles utilized as they will be receiving a new enigine that is as far as possible from an overhaul. For those airlines with 'Power by the hour' maintenance plans, the engine swap will be at the engine vendors expense as neither has met promise.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3560 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 41056 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

There seems to be some confusion on the open job issue.. on one hand we have jobs traveled from Final Assembly for either missing parts, or engineering change activity. One job held for one part can create a traveled work load of from 1 to 30 or more jobs... this is because the part is buried and it makes no sense to close up the area only to remove everything to install it of course any related systems checks are delayed as well.. also leaving the area open prevents forgetting there was a buried job.

On the other hand there are numerous jobs scheduled for after roll out from big ones (say paint which is actually a series of jobs) to, and this dates me, installing the Rainex bottle, putting the medallion in the steering yoke (last thing because many walked away). there are quite a few systems checks, stuff related to engine run, etc.

The goal is always zero work traveled from the factory, I think it happened twice in the last 15 years I was with the company...


25 ZKOJH : Do we have an update on when 'LOT' will take hold of there 787's ? i'm flying with them in JAN from PEK and don't really want the 763, according to th
26 Ruscoe : No, but I think the blocks are (or used to be); Ln 7-19 Ln 20-34 Ln 35-50 Ln 51-89 Ln 90 - supposed to be ist 787 at original target weight. Range is
27 sweair : I cant see if the JA812 was delivered yesterday? Can anyone confirm? I saw it had a flight, a short one though..
28 NYC777 : It was not delivered yet.
29 Post contains images lightsaber : Yep. What I recall, from memory is that LN 7 was 6,800nm at delivery, but should be a little more now (or will be) with engine PIPs LN 20 were supose
30 kanban : Matt noted on his Paine Field Blog that Air India VT-AND and VT-ANH have been re-registered as N1023O and N1020L.. should we place any significance on
31 Post contains images RobK : Interesting. They aren't re-registered in the true sense of the word as both those N-numbers are Boeing temporary registrations. If there was still t
32 sweair : I don't think they would do this if delivery would be imminent? Might be sent off to the desert to let GOI drag its feet all they want. AI will proba
33 RobK : According to my sources they are both planned to leave PAE on Monday for an airport on the US east coast, which is the reason for the temp sticker re
34 WarpSpeed : Interesting. Possibly a repositioning for a simultaneous 3-frame delivery to Air India at KCHS. Certainly not a good place for storage. This would ma
35 NYC777 : Interseting Rob. I suspect that they might fly to CHS and might be picked up by AI along with VT-ANI which is already there. This is speculation on m
36 RobK : The airport name was mentioned but it wasn't Charleston. I haven't mentioned the airport because it doesn't look right to me and am seeking clarificat
37 Post contains images sweair : I actually think I saw a delivery of a 739 from Charleston this week, a turkish frame. They have a delivery center there doing nothing much right now
38 NYC777 : The mystery only deepens if it's not going to CHS. Then the question is is VT-ANI going to the same airport that the other two are flying to? If it's
39 RobK : .......... (awaiting further clarification)[Edited 2012-06-30 12:02:16]
40 RobK : CHS already has those facilities, surely? The TK B739s and plenty of other BBJs have flown internationally from there.
41 iceberg210 : It could be they are just trying to get them out of KPAE before the runway closes. If they think that the GOI approval will come down while the KPAE
42 NYC777 : That's plausible but they could fly them to BFI for that, why fly them way across the country?
43 Post contains images sweair : If they fly them off to Charleston 2 stalls at flight line open for the frames coming off FAL or rework. Charleston has a delivery center just as Pain
44 United787 : This is the most logical possible reason...but given the saga's history with AI, who knows!
45 Post contains images RobK : OK, had a slight hiccup with an earlier post, but now have confirmation from my source that they are indeed off to CHS (CLT was originally reported to
46 NYC777 : Thanks Rob, It sounds like it might be for delivery purposes. Why else would they fly them there unless they're just going to be stored there?
47 Post contains images RobK : Latest 787 status just received for July : JA803A still down for planned del JUL31, although B1 should have happened over a week ago. JA811A planned d
48 sweair : Was it only one AI frame that was changed to JAL? Or wont they take anymore that have not been built?
49 NYC777 : Currently I'm showing only one airframe meant for AI switched to JAL.
50 PHX787 : When it comes to Customer Codes, will that reflect the AI customer code or the JL code?
51 Stitch : Neither, as Boeing no longer assigns customer codes to the 787 family.
52 NYC777 : This plane is now at the Fuel Dock sans its rudder.
53 Someone83 : So that optimistic prediction with "up to eight" deliveries in June, ended up wih only two....
54 Rheinbote : AFAIK: LN7-LN19 LN20-LN33 LN34-LN49 LN50-LN89 LN90-LNxxx Unlcear to me whether LN33 or LN34 was lead ship of the new block. LN90 is supposed to be cl
55 Post contains images Stitch : Maybe Boeing can hire Trey Parker and Marc Shaiman to write a song labeled "Blame India!". Well the OEM spec OEW has dropped from 115t in 2007 to 112
56 sweair : The 788 will get the even lighter 789 parts later on, they might even get below LN90 goals..
57 sweair : Wrong subject in this thread, its about the 787..
58 ferpe : IIRC the spec OEW has been given as: 2007 for a 242 mixed class frame 114.7t 2011 for a 224 mixed class frame 111.5t, add the missing 38 seats and yo
59 Post contains links someone83 : http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonm/7490963234/in/photostream VT-AND and VT-ANH has now left PAE for CHS
60 sweair : I wonder what the rationale was behind moving AIs frames and no others? Is the GOI close to take a vote? This thing has dragged on for ever now! Maybe
61 NYC777 : More than likely it's because the flightline is getting crwoded but I wouldn't discount the possibility of a triple delivery to AI soon of all three
62 aeroblogger : AI is waiting on some Ministry of Civil Aviation approvals, which are unlikely to happen before Minister of Civil Aviation Ajit Singh gets back from v
63 Post contains links gordomatic : From http://nyc787.blogspot.com Maybe it's been discussed, but I'm not sure why the runway at KPAE will be closed between those dates - 4th of July h
64 kanban : scheduled maintenance
65 NYC777 : Apparently in India buesiness stops if one minister is out on vacation. This has reach the level of beyond absurd.
66 United787 : Delivered to Date, 13 aircraft: L/N 8 - JA801A - 9/25/2011 - NH (ANA) L/N 24 - JA802A - 10/13/2011 - NH (ANA) L/N 31 - JA805A - 12/30/2011 - NH (ANA)
67 tdscanuck : It's not *one* minister...business stops if *anyone* in the chain is out. Tom.
68 aeroblogger : He is not a minister, he is the Minister of Civil Aviation. Companies in India (not just Gov't) have a serious problem - lack of empowerment of lower
69 sunrisevalley : Does this help in any way to interpolate out to the 789 . Allowing for the extra seats (280-242) at the '30kg used for the spread beween 224 and 242
70 NYC777 : MAkes the situation even more absurd and reflects extremely poorly on AI and the GoI. Thank god for the private sector.
71 Stitch : When Airbus published their "Lessons Learned" report, their Manufacturer Weights Empty Evolution (so an airframe with no customer interior fittings)
72 sunrisevalley : Thanks for this ! Looking back at some of Widebodyphotog's work, he had used 7.167t. Both values seem to corroborate each other.
73 NYC777 : Just added a new post to my blog with updated 787 disposition tables
74 petera380 : I count 14 in your list! Which is also what I have.
75 sunrisevalley : I should have added assuming they were arrived at independent of each other.
76 ferpe : It is simpler then that, a ULH frame with modern engines doing 8000nm will have a OEW/MTOW ratio of some 49-51%, take your pic between these two valu
77 United787 : Oops..you are correct, forgot to update that number!
78 Post contains images sweair : The 788 was to get redesigned and lighter parts of the 789 in the future, the 788 might yet become even better and both engine OEMs aim for better tha
79 MSN007 : All things 787 production update shows the three ET 787s as follows. 1st 787 in storage, 2nd 787 in modification and the 3rd 787 in prep for delivery.
80 scouseflyer : I'm not certain but I'm guessing that the first frame needs a lot more tasks carried out on it as it was made several years ago. Plane 3 will be very
81 Post contains images sweair : The third frame was in rework, the second was there at the same time, maybe when it is done the frame in storage will be put into rework.They have a f
82 tdscanuck : Not if properly stored. Consumables/limited life parts are usually removed. The storage preparation is extensive. You're talking about an asset desig
83 RobK : JA812A actually delivered on JUN30.
84 PM : It actually had its first flight in 2011.
85 RobK : Negative sir. You are probably confusing the 'old' 787 that was due to become JA803A with this 'new' one. Remember that the REG, MSN and VAR# allocat
86 PM : Well, I don't know where I got that from but I stand corrected. So, before I make a fool of myself again, someone please confirm. To date: 14 deliver
87 Post contains links kanban : One way to prevent confusion would be to settle on one designator for all tracking ... like line number. Also nobody noted Qatar (line 58) departed Ju
88 United787 : Yes, 14 Delivered Yes, 11 Additional Flown: 5 listed below + 3 test planes that will eventually be delivered + 3 test planes that will never be deliv
89 kanban : It wasn't your posts I was referring to but those that just use a registration number...
90 United787 : I know...just updating the list...
91 NYC777 : I just updated the 787 production firing order to take into account airplanes LN 81 to LN 90. See my blog.
92 Post contains images PM : I couldn't agree more. These ZA numbers don't really help much. Nor, for that matter, do the five-figure Boeing order numbers. Line numbers are much
93 tdscanuck : It depends on what you want to know. They tell you nothing about when the aircraft is being produced but they tell you far more about what the aircra
94 Post contains images PM : Fair enough but perhaps only to the initiated. Maybe I'm the only one here who doesn't know but it would be helpful if someone could write a brief an
95 Post contains links Dan23 : There is a video of the arrival in Farnborough here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlVG5UMPEWI (credit to uploader: ryana178)
96 RobK : I would argue the exact opposite actually Tom. The variable numbers (the correct term) tell you very little at all and the only way you know that ZA1
97 RobK : B1 now expected 11Jul for JA803A. My gut feeling is delivery will slip to August for this one.
98 PM : ...and, I assume, they will cease to mean anything (to the likes of us) once the plane is delivered whereas the line number will forever be unchanged
99 JoeCanuck : How long does it take to hermetically seal a 787? How air tight is it wrapped?
100 dynamicsguy : I disagree about the registration, but I don't have a penchant for anoraks and clipboards. As noted, the registrations seem to be a moving target and
101 RobK : The l/n is a better way of tracking the airframes for sure, yes. It's the only part that doesn't change, unlike the reg, msn and var #s. But saying t
102 Post contains links ord : This article says United will take delivery of its first 787 on September 15 (middle of 5th paragraph): http://www.aspireaviation.com/2012/0...revolut
103 osiris30 : Does anyone know where Air Canada fits in the delivery chain (and hopefully this ends up on the right thread this time, doh!). I've lost track of who
104 tdscanuck : The first letter is the major type (Z=787, Y=737NG, P=737-100-50, R=747, W=777, etc.). The second letter is the derivative (ZA=787-8, ZB=787-9, WA=77
105 Post contains images RobK : With all due respect, you couldn't be more wrong. Every ANA 787 delivered so far has a different msn from their original allocations, and that is jus
106 RobK : Again Tom, incorrect info. Or maybe you can explain why there are 200ERs, 300s and 300ERs on WB? Same for 200ERs and 300ERs on WD? As already mention
107 Post contains images caetravlr : So to clarify, if I ride by the airport here in Charleston today, I should see THREE AI 787s out there? That would definitely be worth the 10 minute d
108 United787 : Any chance we might see a UA 787 at the Chicago Air & Water Show on August 18/19, 2012? If not a UA, maybe ZA003?
109 PHX787 : We haven't talked much about ET, where will they be flying it? Aaaannd I'm assuming all of these are still in limbo as of right now?
110 Post contains images lightsaber : So we only debate LN33/LN34 for the next block. ok. That they do. But there is usually a reference weight sans later-standard equipment. That weight
111 NYC777 : No, four.
112 dkny : First destinations for ET will be JNB and DXB begining Aug 1. When the second frame comes in flights to CAN will switch to the 787. ET also said GRU
113 NYC777 : The frst for ET should have first flight next week. Expect 2-3 weeks before delivery so it'll be really close.
114 Post contains images PM : Many thanks for the explanation. That's perhaps so but for for enthusiasts (ie most people on this forum) once a plane is off Boeing's hands and deli
115 tdscanuck : MSN, line number, and variable number can all change prior to production. They all freeze about 6 months ahead of production. They have. As have line
116 RobK : The msns for all the ANA 787s have changed from their original allocations, and certainly within the "6 months" that you've quoted. Anyway I don't hav
117 aeroblogger : As I said, Ajit Singh does not return from vacation until Monday. He should be on flight back from London right now... Hoping for all of this to get
118 817Dreamliiner : You know sooner or later no one is gonna care about the ZA numbers. How many of us still refers to the 777 as WAXXX or whatever. As production increa
119 Post contains links kanban : How about this.. prior to delivery the line number is the most accurate tracking for Boeing only, after delivery the MSN stays with that plane even th
120 RobK : My point exactly.
121 tdscanuck : I get the use of line number; it's more intuitive if you're not used to variable numbers. It's the insistence on registration that baffles me. Regist
122 SEPilot : I take it the old engines get rebuilt to the new standard and then are sold or leased as remans?
123 PM : Line number is where it starts, of course, and that's how I (and certainly others) keep track of a particular frame. But all that tells you is that i
124 Post contains images lightsaber : If possible, yes. I speculate GE is going to change their casing which means quite a few parts won't be exchanged. But that is the idea. All parts th
125 Post contains links Stitch : Looks like SUH might have let the cat out of the bag about 787-9 production at CHS. At the moment, CHS is tasked to assemble only the 787-8, with PAE
126 kanban : quoting from the above post's reference "We're not restricted by [building only] -8s there," Conner says. "We're starting with -8s and we'll see where
127 Stitch : Agreed. With three 787 FALs, Boeing will want both CHS and PAE to be able to build any model should labor unrest or an Act of God temporarily close o
128 Post contains images caetravlr : Thanks for that clarification! I was only thinking of the one that was already there in addition to the two that were flown in from PAE. I didn't rea
129 WarpSpeed : If the -9 is to be built on the N. CHS FAL then the -10, as a simple stretch, should be easily accommodated. Certainly makes good business sense. The
130 starrion : But Boeing has nearly 900 orders and could win more if they could be delivered in a reasonable timeframe. So until their yearly production was exceed
131 Post contains links WarpSpeed : Meeting demand is more of a supply chain issue than an FAL issue. The complex supply chain feeding the FAL's has an upper limit on the number of sub-
132 SEPilot : Well, there will be quite a bit spent, if not truly "wasted". The amount recovered will probably be a very small fraction of the original price of th
133 Post contains links kanban : Ethiopian line #49 had it's first flight today http://boeing-test-flights.blogspot....b787-8-ethiopian-first-flight.html
134 NYC777 : Does any one know how the stalls at CHS are numbered?
135 Post contains images lightsaber : Which means about 40% of the value of an engine is lost (when the low turbine, seals, and a few other parts go away). Enough will be recovered to mak
136 Post contains links WarpSpeed : Looks like LN5/ZA005/40694/N787FT* is heading to KEDW today. Additional flight testing? If so, any idea what Boeing might be checking out? http://nl.f
137 tdscanuck : Almost certainly. KEDW is a phenomenal pain in the rear to work out of; you only go there because you need their testing facilities. Tom.
138 WarpSpeed : The only "testing facilities" that come to mind are super long runways and the desert, but then again all I know about KEDW is what I've seen on TV &
139 tdscanuck : It's the combination of the facility itself, the surroundings, and the operational requirements. KEDW gives you an enourmous runway with a "clearway"
140 NYC777 : Can anyone confirm that LN 7 (ZA100, JA803A) is to be delivered this month. Dominic Gates and Bloomberg both reporting on Pat Shanahan's comments at F
141 Post contains images RobK : No-one can "confirm" anything as they continually move the goal posts. You've been doing your website long enough to know this by now. Any future dat
142 NYC777 : Well I'm not looking for confirmation I'm just trying to figure out who's right given the wide range of time between the two reports. I understand th
143 NYC777 : Matt Cawby tweeted that LAN's first 787 is now out on the flightline and painted.
144 starrion : Any news on the growing fleet of AI frames at CHS? I presume that the minister is back from vacation, and can now commence with the permission grantin
145 Post contains images Stitch : Tease.
146 Post contains links NYC777 : There was a Reuter's piece put out today saying it's in limbo within the Indian bureaucracy. A terible situation. Once the Indian bureaucracy gets yo
147 WarpSpeed : So, the very people that wanted additional compensation for delivery delays are now causing additional delivery delays. As I posted several weeks ago
148 NYC777 : At the very least, Boeing should charge them for the cost of storing the airplanes as well astransporting them to CHS so it didn't interfere with the
149 Post contains links NYC777 : Picture of LAN's first 787 as taken by Matt Cawby. It's a sweet looking bird! http://www.flickr.com/photos/microvolt/7552443280/in/photostream/[Edited
150 Post contains images Stitch : As gorgeous as I expected it to be.
151 817Dreamliiner : Nice! was waiting for this one! Agreed!
152 ual747-600 : Ditto. Absolutely beautiful. I wonder why they are not suppose to receive it until later this fall. UAL747-600
153 Post contains images SCL767 : Looks fantastic! Very exciting to see the 787 in LAN's color scheme! LAN expects to receive CC-BBA next month and will deploy it initially on the SCL
154 NYC777 : Thanks that's what I thought, but there is a report by CAPA Center for Aviation that says LAN is going to take their first 787 in November. How many
155 SCL767 : LAN expects to receive two B-787-8s this year: L/N 68 (CC-BBA) and L/N 74 (CC-BBB).
156 NYC777 : Can they not receive LN 80 by the end of the year. That should go into final assembly by middle to late next month?[Edited 2012-07-11 17:12:20]
157 SCL767 : It is a possibility; however we won't know until LATAM releases its fleet plan. According to LAN's last fleet plan, LAN indicated that it would recei
158 Post contains links WarpSpeed : Looks like LN49/ZA262/34745/ET-AOQ for Ethiopian is headed to KFTW today for painting. Given that this frame flew its B1 flight a few days ago, does a
159 aklrno : Interesting quote from the Times of India today on 787 delivery: India's Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs must approve the compensation but has b
160 aeroblogger : AI mgmt is going to start putting pressure if this issue isn't sorted soon - DEL-MEL/SYD is scheduled to start on Sept 1st using 787s, and AI needs a
161 NYC777 : Still not holding my breath for AI to get any 787s even in August, that airline and the GoI are a mess and this issue just highlights all of this. I e
162 KarelXWB : @NYC777 I just have read your latest blog article. Can you find out which LN (with reg JA813A) is parked on the 40-51 apron? It's almost impossible th
163 NYC777 : You paraphrased what I wrote in the post.
164 Post contains images lightsaber : I would love to know when Boeing's offer expires or under which conditions they would be allowed to withdraw their offer. I doubt it would happen, I
165 NYC777 : I doubt that there is a drop dead date on the areement. One month, it's getting closer to two months. AI and the GoI have royally screwed this one up
166 Stitch : Heck, I remember when Air India and Indian were being merged there were like a half-dozen 777-300ERs and 777-200LRs for Air India that sat at PAE for
167 Post contains images lightsaber : I didn't realize it was that many 777s. AI is always in a rush to order and then delays to accept. So this means we should expect a six-pack of 788s
168 Confuscius : They told Boeing to hurry up and wait.
169 JoeCanuck : That's funny...scream for compensations because of delays...then delay the deliveries even further. Does Boeing get some compensation returned for cu
170 WarpSpeed : True...However, taking a stepping back, the same could be said of Boeing. It put itself in the position of having to negotiate delay compensation and
171 sweair : What is the hold up on deliveries? Many were hoping to see 40-50 frames this year, we have 11 so far and it is August soon, right now 25 seems all the
172 tdscanuck : I'm not sure that would have made a difference; what was AI's financial position and relationship with GoI when their aircraft were originally schedu
173 Post contains images sweair : This years was going so well with 3+3 march and April, then came 0 in may and 3 in June, now we might only see 1 in July. Maybe it just is a shortage
174 caetravlr : CHS actually... And man, I hope they hurry up and get them delivered. As gorgeous as they look sitting out there, I was looking forward to seeing mor
175 aeroblogger : AI has had financing lined up since 2009. They will have no trouble paying regardless of the compensation amount. The reason GoI has such a complex a
176 starrion : Yes. They should form a committee to do that. Aside from the three frames for AI, Boeing is still far behind where they wanted to be at this point in
177 WarpSpeed : Sure it would as there could be no cause for delay compensation if the 787's had been ready for delivery on time. AI has been harmed by the 2.5+ year
178 Stitch : Considering no bad news goes unpublished with the 787 program, I doubt there is another "unknown unknown" that suddenly made itself known and is derai
179 bestwestern : Savvy investors will see right through this manure. No wonder the banks and so called analysts have such a bad reputation. Above and beyond the actua
180 Post contains images aeroblogger : Hilarious.
181 WarpSpeed : I agree that Boeing has turned the corner with respect to design/production issues that once derailed timely deliveries. However, those frames are no
182 RobK : JA803A 34485/7 now showing planned B1 for 18 Jul and del for Aug 8.
183 Post contains images RobK : To answer an earlier query, JA813A is ZA118 34521/67.
184 sunrisevalley : Do Boeing allow significant numbers of summer vacations that could be reducing the head count of mechanics across the system?
185 Post contains images WarpSpeed : So, 21 days from B1 to Delivery. Looks like a good metric to monitor along with one measuring the number of days between a frame's FAL completion to
186 RobK : From sources at ANA, JA811A is due to leave PAE at 2120L on Jul 17 for HND.
187 WarpSpeed : Wouldn't that imply she delivered today or earlier? Not to say change in ownership/fly-away could not occur on the same day. However, previous delive
188 Hamlet69 : Could one of you provide a link from Boeing's forecast at the beginning of the year for month-to-month deliveries? I'd like to see how far behind the
189 Ruscoe : I have no evidence for this but I have thought that perhaps Boeing is contractuaqlly obliged to deliver in a certain order, or that an airline has to
190 WarpSpeed : I don't believe there is month-to-month delivery guidance, but 2012 guidance was for Boeing to deliver 70 to 85 787 & 747-8s, with it split equal
191 Hamlet69 : That I had heard. However, based on this: . . . This: . . . this: And this: . . . I had assumed there was some factual evidence to suggest Boeing was
192 Post contains images WarpSpeed : Kindly note, your question was respectfully answered with a sincere and honest effort. However, you say you knew the answer to your question and, mos
193 SCL767 : That is when LAN expects to receive its first 787. Also, according to Matt Cawby's blog, LAN's first 787 CC-BBA was moved to the flightline and its i
194 dynamicsguy : I'd be careful what you post. If your information comes from the Boeing side I know that such specific information is considered sensitive.
195 Post contains images RobK : Thank you for your concern.
196 Post contains links SCL767 : Another article that states that LAN will receive its first Boeing 787 before October: LAN's 787 completes final assembly
197 BlueSky1976 : In January, the only LO route operated by the 787 will be WAW-ORD. PEK will most likely switch to Dreamliner after Q1 2013, the company will have 3 7
198 bestwestern : Is there a real possibility that LO can get five 787s by next summer? Lot have zero chance of finding four profitable asian routes. I can see regiona
199 aeroblogger : AI compensation bill to be brought to session in last week of July/first week of August. 4 deliveries expected to take place before August 5th, if com
200 BlueSky1976 : Yes; apparently it has already been arranged with Boeing. 767s will be gone from the fleet by Summer 2013. Why? PEK loads are decent for newly-launch
201 Post contains links WarpSpeed : http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...india-boeing-idUSL4E8IH2FI20120717 The wheels of bureaucracy turn slowly, but its good to have some clarity. Ca
202 NYC777 : Yes customer flights have been undertaken on the 3 '87s waiting at CHS. the fourth '87 still has to conduct it's B1 but I'm guessing it won't be too l
203 Post contains links NYC777 : And LN 51 has filed to fly away at 9:20 local time tonight as RobK said http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ANA9397 Boeing is now at 12 deliveries thus
204 KDAYflyer : Sounds to me like AI wants free airplanes.
205 aeroblogger : Well, yeah. Shouldn't AI want free airplanes? Boeing screwed up, and AI deserves compensation. Obviously, it is AI's responsibility to negotiate for
206 tdscanuck : AI got compensation. It was all contracted out years ago. What AI wants now is *more* compensation, above and beyond what they already agreed to. Yes
207 aeroblogger : Ugh. We've been over this already. AI has thusfar recieved $0.00 of compensation. In the contract, they agreed to a compensation cap, which you might
208 bestwestern : And a large proportion are US resident former Polish passport holders. Hanoi anyone? The LOT service is good, but they do not have the european netwo
209 KarelXWB : Sorry, my bad. I read something else.
210 sweair : Did all 787 test pilots go on vacation? No B1 flights for a long time now. Production is up to speed but delivery is the new problem. What is the hold
211 Stitch : The senior crew was in England for a week for the air show, so that probably had an effect. This Friday is a direct repeat of last Friday - torrentia
212 kanban : they do, especially towards the end of the month or quarter...
213 RobK : There's a lot of 737s flight planned to fly today so can't be that bad up there. 787 program does seem to have come to a halt, though. JA803A, for ex
214 ual747-600 : I seem to recall during a December earnings call that Boeing said that they would have 11 787's in ANA's hands by the end of March 2012. Something the
215 Stitch : When you consider the design and production techniques, the 787 is the first plane Boeing has built this way.
216 tdscanuck : It is the summer, but they do manage staffing around vacations. Different crew. Engineering test pilots and production test pilots aren't the same pe
217 Post contains links WarpSpeed : Unfortunately, Airbus has likely generated such a case study to allow for better implementation of the A350XWB program, but it includes lessons learn
218 kanban : because of the typography and thermal inversions, we have varying weather not only from day to day but between Everett and Seattle.. Yes it was sunny
219 Rheinbote : What if there was a buckling issue say around the wing center box that would require inspection every ~200 hours until a production fix is implemente
220 Rheinbote : As long as the basecoat that most planes sported when they went into storage provided for UV protection and moisture was not allowed to puddle up ins
221 Post contains images sweair : There is clearly an issue somewhere but sadly they aren't talking about it. Following the 787 project is at times like watching paint dry
222 tdscanuck : Is that actually a rumour or was that just a hypothetical example? Tom.
223 NYC777 : JA814A is out of paint. I suspect that this may be ZA119/LN69. Can anyone confirm?
224 PW100 : Does anybody know when the last line-move took place? All things 787 reported one on 03 Jul. I'm pretty sure that another one followed, I must have mi
225 NYC777 : Another line move was done earlier this week. Check my spreadsheet.[Edited 2012-07-21 09:10:02]
226 sphealey : Yes, I think Mr. Rheinbote (one of the most respected posters here on a.net) owes us a bit more detail on that one. sPh
227 Post contains links Stitch : They identified and fixed that years ago: http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2008/q1/080320b_nr.html
228 justloveplanes : Is it 5 years? Don't think ANA was five years. In any case, AI is just working the situation I think. One scenario is Boeing sells off their (AI's) p
229 Post contains links WarpSpeed : The Boeing Q2 2012 earnings call is this Weds., July 25 @10:30AM ET. If anything "material" is going on with the 787, we should hear about it. http://
230 NYC777 : What are you talking about? It's not a 5 year delay! Again while yes they are entitled to the compensation for the THREE years of delays and negotiat
231 Post contains links WarpSpeed : http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...fect-in-trent-1000-gearbox-374614/ Might this be the best explanation for the lack of activity on the Boeing fl
232 Post contains images lightsaber : Moderators, please start Part 6. At this point that might be the best solution, but trying to deliver is worth some more attempts. I think that things
233 pygmalion : I know that, at least as of a few years ago, Boeing contracts did include storage fees for airplanes ready for delivery but not picked up by the airl
234 WarpSpeed : Agreed. This situation is best handled in a manner more akin to diplomacy than a business contract dispute. Given that the GoI is involved, a long te
235 United787 : 15 Delivered to Date L/N 8 - JA801A - 9/25/2011 - NH (ANA) L/N 24 - JA802A - 10/13/2011 - NH (ANA) L/N 31 - JA805A - 12/30/2011 - NH (ANA) L/N 41 - JA
236 Post contains images PHX787 : Seconded Aaaaaaand these still aren't going anywhere AI and Boeing need to get their S**T together Oh wow so this was delayed too, huh?
237 NYC777 : No Qatar has said publically that they will take delivery in August.
238 PHX787 : Ah ok thanks for clearing it up. No set date yet?
239 kanban : Off topic but informational Threads are rolled at 250 posts.. to trigger rilling use the "Suggest Deletion" button and note in remarks.. please roll
240 Post contains links WarpSpeed : Nice post by All Things 787: http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2012/07/787-power-and-delivery-woes.html I hadn't realized that the last BOE 787 flight was on
241 Post contains links KarelXWB : LN70 in full livery by Matt Cawby http://www.flickr.com/photos/microvolt/7634623792/
242 PHX787 : Looks great as usual! I've been a bit outta the loop, is Mr. Cawby a member here?
243 NYC777 : Good news: A 787 is flying today, bad news: It's Za005, a test airplane doing run to Paine Field.
244 Post contains links WarpSpeed : http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l/avd_07_24_2012_p01-01-479326.xml Buried at the end of the above article is a paragraph indicating low availab
245 Stitch : If they don't immediately need the plane, it does make sense to wait until the better engine is available. I would also guess that Boeing would not w
246 Post contains links and images lightsaber : This could get interesting very quickly. With how precious space is for Boeing right now, due to numerous parked 788s, I hope they are charging. Agre
247 United787 : The other two airlines to take RR engines are LAN and LOT...I wonder if this explains why there was some confusion as to when LAN would be taking it'
248 sweair : It doesnt explain why no GEnx planes arent flying either..
249 Post contains links NYC777 : According to PTI the GoM is to take up the issue of the AI-Boeing compensation deal. I don't know what that means in terms of finally having these air
250 SCL767 : According to a senior LAN official, LAN expects to receive CC-BBA in late August or early September. This was printed in various articles in the Chil
251 Post contains links srbmod : With the thread having reached 250 posts, please continue the discussion here: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 6 (by srbmod Jul 24 2012 in Civil A
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
787 Production Thread Part 3 posted Sun Mar 25 2012 12:33:32 by SA7700
787 Production Thread Part 2 posted Tue Jan 3 2012 09:30:11 by SA7700
787 Production Thread Part 1 posted Tue Oct 18 2011 13:23:07 by United787
Official 787 Production Thread - Part 1 posted Thu Oct 21 2010 00:30:11 by moderators
787 Production Thread Part 4 posted Wed May 30 2012 18:42:57 by LipeGIG
A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 3 posted Mon Apr 2 2012 20:29:40 by LipeGIG
A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 2 posted Fri Jan 6 2012 20:26:53 by NZ1
A380 Production Thread Part 11 posted Mon Nov 28 2011 10:31:35 by SA7700
A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 1 posted Wed Oct 26 2011 00:08:09 by ferpe
Official 787 Flight Test Tracking Thread - Part 5 posted Thu Oct 21 2010 00:31:59 by moderators