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New Domestic HA Routes?  
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 395 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4918 times:

I am very encouraged with HA's expansion. It's been needed for quite some time. My question is what are the major route contenders for 'aloha' in their city?

I think either MSP-HNL, DEN-HNL? Maybe even opening up another island to mainland service like KOA? KOA-SEA, KOA-OAK, KOA-SAN, KOA-LAS?

Any idea when the A332 is coming to SJC?

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 820 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4823 times:

Doubt that we'll see new cities on the mainland in the near future for a couple of reasons. First, the Asia routes are simply too hot right now. Although, I was very surprised at the Brisbane addition. HKG/HNL would be my pick for the most likely route at the moment. Secondly, I believe they just took delivery of the last A-330 they'll receive this year. If correct, it will be 2013 before they receive additional aircraft for expansion.


Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently offlineKLAXAirport From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4451 times:

Just like already said, I highly doubt HA will add any new U.S. destinations for a while  

HA is definately focusing more on Asia/Oceania and just like HNL-Jack said, I believe HKG/HNL will be HA next route.

Cheers,
KLAXAirport   


User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2463 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4135 times:

DEN, DFW, MSP, DTW, IAD, SLC would be great ones. The maybes would be IAH and STL. Maybe more routes from Kona and Maui to PDX, SFO, IAH, DFW, JFK, IAD. If HA does anymore domestic expansion, I think it would be from KOA and OGG.


A landing EVERYONE can walk away from, is a good landing.
User currently offlinemplsjefe From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4091 times:
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MSP is hurting for seasonal HA service since DL cut MSP-HNL.

User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15834 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4074 times:

You have to understand that once you get east of the Rockies, Hawaii's attractiveness as a destination drops. Cost, distance, and crossing time zones becomes more inconvenient compared to Florida or the Caribbean. There just aren't that many flights from the eastern 2/3 of the US to Hawaii, and many of the ones that do exist are mainline carriers flying from their hubs with passengers fed in from many locations.

If Hawaiian wants to make more destinations in the eastern part of the US viable, they should probably find themselves a codeshare partner to feed the flights. Otherwise I see it being limited to probably Chicago, New York, Denver, and maybe Washington.
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 3):
DEN, DFW, MSP, DTW, IAD, SLC would be great ones.

Denver would work most likely. Dallas and Washington would be very borderline. Almost impossible on the others.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 3):
The maybes would be IAH and STL.

Houston would be very dicey. Not a chance in St. Louis.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 3):
Maybe more routes from Kona and Maui to PDX, SFO, IAH, DFW, JFK, IAD.

Hawaiian might be able to eek out a few weekly frequencies between Maui and New York (definitely with an eastbound stop though), but Houston, Dallas and Washington are probably all nonstarters.

[Edited 2012-06-30 12:41:06]


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8198 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4014 times:

Quoting mplsjefe (Reply 4):
MSP is hurting for seasonal HA service since DL cut MSP-HNL.

Yes, this is true - no nonstop service to Hawaii. First time since the 70s I should think.

Do HA ever run widebodies on inter-island service? Scheduled? Or only when Aloha went bust or some kind of seasonal thing? Would love to fly a 767-300ER or one of their gorgeous new A330-200s from Honolulu to Maui.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineMAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3940 times:

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 3):
DEN, DFW, MSP, DTW, IAD, SLC would be great ones. The maybes would be IAH and STL. Maybe more routes from Kona and Maui to PDX, SFO, IAH, DFW, JFK, IAD. If HA does anymore domestic expansion, I think it would be from KOA and OGG.

I think you could put DTW and STL as highly unlikely. Unless there is some feed on the DTW end, it would be a stretch.

If you think STL could work, you might as well throw BOS, MCO, MIA, etc. onto the list.


User currently offlinealoha73g From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2372 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3937 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 6):
Do HA ever run widebodies on inter-island service? Scheduled? Or only when Aloha went bust or some kind of seasonal thing?

No, they do not run anything other than 717s on interisland flights currently. The only time they have EVER run 767s scheduled on HNL-OGG was in the months following AQ's shut-down. The 763 freed up some 717s to add additional flights to LIH, KOA & ITO until they aquired more 717s later in 2008.

It ran 3-4 roundtrips per day with block times of about 45 minutes and turn times of 60-75 minutes.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 592 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

It's rumored B6 is going to sublease one LGB slot to Hawaii to tap into the OC market and connection to B6..pipe dream


my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3857 times:

Quoting mplsjefe (Reply 4):
MSP is hurting for seasonal HA service since DL cut MSP-HNL.

If DL, behind the support of a very large hub, had trouble finding success with MSP-HNL, what leads you to believe HA's -- which would need to fill 270 seats with local traffic -- fortunes would be different?



Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3716 times:

The Hawaii Visitors Bureau keeps great stats on where visitors/flights arrive from etc. There are lots of pages and different sets of matrix to follow, but its all there.

http://www.hawaiitourismauthority.or...%202012%20Visitor%20Stats%20NR.pdf


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6200 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3684 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
Any idea when the A332 is coming to SJC?

Not holding my breath. The 767 is the perfect size for the route. I also don't believe HA has the equipment as they seem to be eyeing more Asia routes were the A330 is perfect.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 9):
It's rumored B6 is going to sublease one LGB slot to Hawaii to tap into the OC market and connection to B6..pipe dream

I wouldnt be too surprised. That would not be the craziest thing but can you imagine widebody service in the current trailers. Those trailers are so full already it must be when the new terminal opens? I havnt been to LGB for a few months and last i was there and usually its packed


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2908 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3524 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
I am very encouraged with HA's expansion.

I too am very encouraged with their ongoing expansion efforts! I flew HA about 10 years ago, when they were the airline with about a half dozen West Coast gateways, interisland trunk routes, and the pair of niche South Pacific routes. Now their network stretches to the East Coast, Australia, Southeast Asia, and Northeast Asia! It is all the more impressive when you consider the fact that other U.S. carriers like B6 and VX have almost no further expansion plans at this time. Who knows where HA could go next...

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
It's been needed for quite some time.

Needed?!? Well, I don't know if I would go that far. As beautiful as Hawaii is, I highly doubt most people NEED to go on vacation there  . As for those lucky enough to live in Hawaii, why would you ever NEED to leave paradise?

One thing is for sure, though. As other airlines serving Hawaii have gone bust or slashed capacity, HA has done a great job filling the void. As JL cut back in the throes of bankruptcy, HA aggressively entered the Japanese market. When AQ and TZ both went out of business in 2008, HA beefed up interisland capacity and added OAK to the network. I have no idea if the recent decision to add BNE had anything to do with the abrupt failure of Air Australia, but I would imagine that ill-fated airline proved to HA that there was a viable market between BNE and Hawaii.

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
My question is what are the major route contenders for 'aloha' in their city?

Well, we already have two more long haul international routes on the horizon, so I wouldn't be expecting much more in the way of new routes for quite some time. Though, it's always possible they will shuffle capacity around a bit, especially from the fledgling OGG "hub".

I certainly wouldn't call HNL "their" (HA's) city, that's for sure. The likes of UA and DL are very big in the HNL market as well, and many foreign carriers do quite well when it comes to the traffic to/from their home countries. For example, Canadian airlines have a knack for handily beating any and all U.S. carrier competition on the Canada-Hawaii routes.

So, what routes are the most likely contenders? Well, all of the expansion has been international, save for the new JFK route that had (apparently) been heavily rumored for years. I would expect this trend to continue, as there are far more viable opportunities in the international realm - typically with little or no competition - than in the hyper-competitive domestic market. Keep in mind that as more and more U.S. airlines get ETOPS and start serving Hawaii (AS, G4, likely also WN and VX), there are less and less profitable/viable opportunities for HA to exploit when it comes to Hawaii-U.S. mainland.

When it comes to potential new international routes, the important thing to keep in mind is the Visa Waiver Program (VWP). HA relies primarily on inbound tourist traffic to fill its planes with profitable O&D. It is very easy for a Japanese or Australian person to visit the U.S., they simply answer a few questions online and they are good to go. Not so for a Chinese or Malaysian person, even a casual tourist, that must jump through hoops (fees, consular interviews, etc.) to get the appropriate visa for the trip. HA in the past wanted some U.S.-China frequencies, but has since stated that China is not a viable market under the current visa rules (too few Chinese citizens are willing/able to get visas for their vacations to Hawaii). It is no coincidence that HA has chosen to add Japan, South Korea, and Australia to its network, as these are all VWP countries whose citizens can easily visit the U.S. The addition of HNL-MNL is a mystery to me, but the unusually close historic political, military, and economic ties between the U.S. and Philippines may override the inherent difficulties that Filipinos face in visiting the U.S. With that in mind, I would not be surprised to see further expansion into VWP countries. In Japan, there is the obvious NGO, and perhaps also HIJ. In Australia there is MEL, and perhaps also markets like CNS, OOL, ADL, or PER - the latter really only making sense if HA offers connectivity to and from the U.S. mainland. Other VWP markets could include AKL and SIN, but they may simply be too small and competitive to be worth HA's while. Taiwan is getting close to attaining VWP status, and I would not be surprised to see HA add TPE when the Taiwanese can freely visit the U.S. There's also YVR, but given the past performance of U.S. carriers in the Canada-Hawaii realm, I imagine HA is more interested in niche opportunities than competitive bloodbaths.

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
I think either MSP-HNL, DEN-HNL?

Keep in mind that the carriers that fly/flew these routes benefit not only from an abundance of local loyalty but also tremendous hub connectivity. When adding markets beyond the West Coast (Washington/Oregon/California, and also Nevada), HA has always partnered with a local hub carrier to gain traction. They added PHX in conjunction with HP, and they added JFK in conjunction with B6. There is no way HA could add DEN without a local hub partner - I imagine UA is out of the question, and WN can't even codeshare or cross feed with it's own subsidiary, so that leaves F9 as the only option. In MSP, they would have to partner with DL, and even then, if DL couldn't make MSP-HNL work, what makes you think that HA would do any better? I would say both of these markets are unlikely. B6 appears to be a strong new partner, and I daresay HA may be looking at serving their West Coast hub at LGB, or perhaps even their BOS hub.

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
Maybe even opening up another island to mainland service like KOA? KOA-SEA, KOA-OAK, KOA-SAN, KOA-LAS?

I can't remember exactly, but HA did attempt KOA-mainland in either the late 90's or early 2000s. Given that the service was VERY short-lived, I can only hazard a guess that it didn't do well. It seems HA is more interested in developing a strong HNL hub and also a secondary hub at OGG. Both islands have sufficient local populations and tourist appeal to profitably fill HA's widebody aircraft. Obviously that is not the case with KOA, or LIH or ITO, for that matter.

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
Any idea when the A332 is coming to SJC?

Probably not anytime soon. Almost every new international route starts with the 767, with an upgrade to the A330 to happen shortly thereafter. I would imagine HA is far more interested in sending it's flagship aircraft to prestigious international markets and major mainland destinations/gateways like LAX and LAS than SJC.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
You have to understand that once you get east of the Rockies, Hawaii's attractiveness as a destination drops. Cost, distance, and crossing time zones becomes more inconvenient compared to Florida or the Caribbean. There just aren't that many flights from the eastern 2/3 of the US to Hawaii, and many of the ones that do exist are mainline carriers flying from their hubs with passengers fed in from many locations.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
but Houston, Dallas and Washington are probably all nonstarters.

New York City and Washington are 6th and 10th, respectively, highest numbers of total visitors to Hawai'i by metro market. This according to the aforementioned Hawai'i Tourism statistics. Dallas and Houston are 12th and 13th. That's 62,000+ annual visitors for Houston, to 145,000+ annual visitors for New York. I believe that's all originating, not transfering, visitors. Caribbean may still be a bigger draw, but there are still a lot of tourists going to Hawai'i.

-Rampart


User currently offlineha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3672 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3395 times:
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Quoting KLAXAirport (Reply 2):
like HNL-Jack said, I believe HKG/HNL will be HA next route

I doubt it. Hong Kong is not in the VWP, nor is a candidate for inclusion. I see TPE being more likely because of this:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
Taiwan is getting close to attaining VWP status, and I would not be surprised to see HA add TPE when the Taiwanese can freely visit the U.S.

Even with Taiwan not having VWP status, the market is more than 3 times the size of Hong Kong. I see HA announcing TPE-HNL, with at least 3x weekly service, in the next couple of months. Taiwan's inclusion in the VWP is expected to be approved in the second half of 2012.


User currently offlineHNLPointShoot From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
The addition of HNL-MNL is a mystery to me, but the unusually close historic political, military, and economic ties between the U.S. and Philippines may override the inherent difficulties that Filipinos face in visiting the U.S.

MNL works because there's a large Filipino population in Hawaii (about a quarter of all state residents identify as Filipino or part-Filipino) that travels to the Philippines to visit family.


User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3877 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3201 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
Well, all of the expansion has been international, save for the new JFK route that had (apparently) been heavily rumored for years. I would expect this trend to continue, as there are far more viable opportunities in the international realm - typically with little or no competition - than in the hyper-competitive domestic market. Keep in mind that as more and more U.S. airlines get ETOPS and start serving Hawaii (AS, G4, likely also WN and VX), there are less and less profitable/viable opportunities for HA to exploit when it comes to Hawaii-U.S. mainland.

Part of the problem for HA is also lack of suitable aircraft to exploit opportunities in smaller markets. AS and G4 have smaller aircraft and can exploit niche markets that may not generate the traffic needed to fill 763s or A332s. Why participate in a potential domestic bloodbath competition when HA can use their aircraft to destinations where they face more limited competition?

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
It seems HA is more interested in developing a strong HNL hub and also a secondary hub at OGG. Both islands have sufficient local populations and tourist appeal to profitably fill HA's widebody aircraft. Obviously that is not the case with KOA, or LIH or ITO, for that matter.

I could foresee some possible neighbor island service to las vegas--since that is where most hawaiians go when they are on vacation.
Some of these neighbor island destinations are also relatively saturated by service by the majors from the likely destinations.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15834 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3121 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 15):
New York City and Washington are 6th and 10th, respectively, highest numbers of total visitors to Hawai'i by metro market. This according to the aforementioned Hawai'i Tourism statistics. Dallas and Houston are 12th and 13th. That's 62,000+ annual visitors for Houston, to 145,000+ annual visitors for New York. I believe that's all originating, not transfering, visitors.

Here's the thing: yields aren't great. Not trash, but definitely not printing money. Plus, you're looking at mostly tourists, so they are more price sensitive and less time sensitive so they will probably think nothing of stopping in Los Angeles or somewhere else on the way out if it saves some money. And that's before you consider how many of that number of passengers have frequent flier accounts with United or American.

I think Hawaiian can make JFK-HNL work, and maybe a few flights to OGG. IAD is probably borderline. I don't really see Houston or Dallas working without a partner providing feed on the other end or putting through a lot of passengers on connections to Asia and Australia (I doubt that's likely).



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5209 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3075 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
Houston would be very dicey. Not a chance in St. Louis.

Yea, from IAH to HNL I think would be a loser especially with UA and the possibility of it going domestic 777.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
Hawaiian might be able to eek out a few weekly frequencies between Maui and New York (definitely with an eastbound stop though), but Houston, Dallas and Washington are probably all nonstarters.

I actually could see HA being able to make OGG-IAH work. When CO flew it, it was always full. They pulled it because the 764 could be used elsewhere more profitably.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3059 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 20):
I actually could see HA being able to make OGG-IAH work. When CO flew it, it was always full.



I took the IAH-OGG often and found it to be exactly as you said, and that was at the same time of the 2xdaily IAH-HNL flights that were equally full.

It would be great to have HA or UA bring the OGG trip to life again.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 20):

I actually could see HA being able to make OGG-IAH work. When CO flew it, it was always full. They pulled it because the 764 could be used elsewhere more profitably.

"Always full" of what? Passengers purchasing high-yielding fares? Or perhaps non-revs?



Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
User currently offlineExpressJet_ERJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3031 times:

Would some routes work as non daily? Or with stops?

Say a STL to HNL 3 days a week? Or DTW-STL-HNL? Just curious. I would think a 76 could do well out of STL to HNL. I know when TWA 1 was a 747 it was mostly connections, but I would be curious to see how much is O & D.



ETOPS...Engines Turn Or People Swim
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3031 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 22):
Passengers purchasing high-yielding fares?



Since I was purchasing tickets and the fares seemed fairly high (IAH is notorious for high fares) I would guess the yield was good. Of course non-rev's but no idea how many. I'm sure others will be able to give good facts, I was simply a paying pax with a desire to get to Maui with no stops.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
25 drerx7 : Good question, not sure...but if yields were to Hawaii were such trash as everyone likes point out...Hawaiian wouldn't necessarily exist...?
26 Post contains images CompensateMe : Through the years, fares between the Western USA & Hawaii have been relatively much stronger than fares between the Central/Eastern USA & Haw
27 yellowtail : let me throw out a wild card....MEX-HNL........surely HA would be able to fill a 767 4 times a week to HNL from one of the largest cities in the world
28 koruman : The Visa Waiver issue is one factor, and another two are: 1) Australia's booming economy which hasn't had a recession, and 2) the fact that Americans
29 CompensateMe : The growth of Jetstar, Virgin Blue, etc. says otherwise.
30 drerx7 : I don't know if that logic is valid enough to hang a hat of fact on though. During that time period CO did post consistent profits while other carrie
31 TWA772LR : If you live in the southern/eastern/midwest US, IAH would be a great alternative to LAX and SFO for a trip to Hawaii, the only places I think would be
32 koruman : No CompensateMe, over 90% of tickets purchased by Australians for sector lengths of 5-10 hours (ie comparable to US mainland-Hawaii) are tickets which
33 Post contains links and images HAL : It is absolutely, positively, guaranteed that in every single Hawaii thread, someone will assert that Hawaii is a 'low-yield' or 'no-yield' destinati
34 Hawaiian763 : Would be nice to see HA start flights from Hawaii to Canada like HNL-YVR or OGG-YYC, but sadly I know that's never going to happen
35 aztrainer : I think that this is all mute when you look at the data that the Hawai'i Tourism Authority has complied... 32% increase in travel from Japan The numbe
36 CompensateMe : My comment, that you quoted, was in regard to CO's IAH-OGG service. Another poster suggested the route for future HA service, as he believed it was p
37 drerx7 : Yea, you had some decent points, but I don't think the reasons you cited were justification enough for the performance of the flight or the reallocat
38 aloha73g : I think the clues are pointing to TPE and/or HKG/PVG/PEK: 1. On Saturday 6/30/12 Hawaiian put up a listing for Mandarin, Cantonese & Japanese spea
39 Post contains images CompensateMe : Do you believe the every flight CO operated was profitable year-round? Do you think that had IAH-OGG been profitable, then CO would've made an attemp
40 drerx7 : No, and I didn't say that. You are attempting to generalize, poorly at that, some statement that YOU came up with that I did not say. It was seasonal
41 CompensateMe : No, you failed to comprehend my point. It’s unlikely that every single long-haul route CO operated was consistently profitable year-round; therefor
42 Post contains links HAL : Mentioned briefly in a previous post, but I think it's pretty big news, and a pretty clear indicator where HA is going in the near future: Hawaiian Ai
43 Post contains images drerx7 : Even if you are a , those are some good points and I'll concede defeat - I see your point.
44 RWA380 : You'd have to go back a ways to find scheduled widebody service between HNL & OGG, UA and AA operated DC-10's, and DL and TZ operated L-1011's, I
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