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Has AA Dug Their Own Grave?  
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 378 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 21121 times:

I have been watching AA over the past 10+ years. I chose to write a report on American Airlines in college just as it was opening it's hub in SJC and the future was very bright for them. They seem to be slowly losing their identity. I could be wrong, but I think others would agree. closing hubs: SJC, BNA, STL and watching WN come in a pick up the business as well as picking up a lot in RDU. Now we have them curtailing BOS to B6 and officially SJU to B6. If I go back and look at fares SJC-LAX, BUR, ONT, SEA, PDX, SAN, PHX, RNO, SNA, LAS. AA's fares were ALWAYS much lower to that of WN's. So what AA has done is create an identity for themselves of buying carriers and closing most or all of the routes ie, AirCal, RenoAir, TWA, and then virtually leaving the market. Only to have a lower-cost carrier come in and take the routes, wait until the AA competition is finally a skeleton of what it once was, and then raise the fares higher than what their predecessor was.

I love AA and there was a time where I would fly on nothing else. But because of their mistakes and giving markets away, my loyalty has to be flexible, like their loyalty has fluctuated to their clients. Our only saving grace is that AS flies to many of the same mainline cities AA did, so the miles are totally safe. But I was just thinking, I just flew SFO-HNL (HA) back to SJC (HA) both former AA routes, SEA-AUS (AS) former AA route... SJC & SNA to SEA both AS (former AA routes). How is AA making money from my traveling on AS/HA? I earn miles on AA. I've not given them any revenue and they're eventually funding my family's business class vacation to Paris (4 people). Something in their economic strategy is wrong.

I am wondering if their demise has been the writing on the wall since the day Bob Crandall retired...??

Please don't slam me, I am open to real dialog and other's thoughts.

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2973 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 20974 times:

I wouldn't slam you at all. Your points are well stated and stuff that I've though of also.

AA always seems to be giving up markets that end up working well for other carriers - SJC-NRT (I'll bet it does well for NH), SEA-NRT, SJC-HNL, SJC-OGG, SEA-BOS, SEA-AUS, SEA-STL, SFO-BOS, LGB-JFK, PDX-ORD, SJC-SNA and the very long list goes on. I was told that SJC-TPE did very well but they also canned it after six months.

They bought Air Cal and then decided they really didn't want to be flying up and down the West Coast after all. So they divested all the routes to Reno Air. Then what do you know, they decided that they really didn't want to be flying up and down the West Coast after all. So they discontinued all the ex-QQ routes (except maybe SJC-LAX). Then - in the ultimate of stupidity - AA wanted a third round and supposedly tried to buy AS. That's the Webster's dictionary of incompetence - trying the same unsuccessful thing over and over, expecting a different result. Thankfully AS was smart enough not do that and get gutted.

AA has p*ssed away business and brand loyalty all over - SEA, SJC, STL, SNA, etc. AA used to have a lot of Boeing, Microsoft and other SEA premium business. That's pretty much all gone now along with the Admiral's club. Same with SJC.

While I understand why they sold the ex-TWA 757s for commonality because they had PW engines, they sold them to their biggest competitor who uses them to make money on international flights. Those were by-far the most comfortable of AA's 757s when they had them, IMHO. Likewise, I think selling the 717s was very shortsighted as AA could now really use an excellent 100 seat airplane, as the 717 is.

While I can understand the short-term business thinking of going to 3-4-3 on the 777s, I can guarantee you I will not select an AA 777 flight in coach anymore and will find another non-AA routing. I'll bet a lot of others will too.

Hey, and I like AA. They are still my favorite - and my first choice - among the large traditional legacy carriers and my second favorite airline after AS. I have always had great luck flying AA, not the horror stories some others state.

[Edited 2012-06-28 17:11:52]

User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1070 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 20787 times:
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Under Bob Crandall, American seemed to be pretty much on TOP of their Game, Since Bob Crandall?? Not So Much..
Kind of like USAir buying Pacific Southwest Airlines then Flubbing the DUB and pissing it all away.. WHY?? Who Knows? I think American's Leadership took their Eye off the Ball and spent too much effort in NOT getting due value for their operation while working to keep everybody and their BROTHER out of their Cozy setup at LHR.. Meanwhile UAL got into ASIA and American Cried about that to no end... The Chicago- Tokyo Route where they paid a HUGE premium to get 747-400 slots after UAL told the Japanese we intended to put the 747-400 on the route, The Chicago- Bejing Route where they made a lot of noise about it then dropped Dead Silent about it. for ome unknown reason. They act like they're Afraid of Success.
And personally? Even though I work for United? I Still like to see an American airplane Land and it's one of the Few airlines in the World I'm Impresed by. It's a SHAME to see they're fallen. Can't atribute it to much more than Rotten Leadership because the Guys I know on the Ground ?? Are ON IT!!


User currently offlinepanpan From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 20657 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 2):
Under Bob Crandall, American seemed to be pretty much on TOP of their Game, Since Bob Crandall?? Not So Much.

After 9-11 it seemed to me that American was the only airline that was on their game. In the last couple of years I struggle to find things management has done than hasn't been a bad decision. And it's a shame. They have a lot of dedicated people working for them and a great network and it'll be a shame if they end up bought up by usair.


User currently offlineaajfksjubklyn From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 901 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 20450 times:

They are slowly returning to their game, even in Bankruptcy. Take note of front line employees, the push to get planes out on time, better services. As a 3+million miler, been through it all, taking notice without any bias, they are making strides. Lets hope they work through bankruptcy and keep USAIR out of the way. I dont like the feel of that in any way.

User currently offlinepanpan From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 20003 times:

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 4):
Lets hope they work through bankruptcy and keep USAIR out of the way

here's hoping


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 19870 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):

While I can understand the short-term business thinking of going to 3-4-3 on the 777s, I can guarantee you I will not select an AA 777 flight in coach anymore and will find another non-AA routing. I'll bet a lot of others will too.

Count me in!

Quoting panpan (Reply 3):
After 9-11 it seemed to me that American was the only airline that was on their game.

WN might disagree with you there...as they STILL turned a profit while other airlines received government bailouts.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5167 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 19618 times:

When AA bought Air Cal, Southwest hadn't moved into the West Coast. At the same time, US had bought PSA. So, when WN moved into the West. both AA and US bailed. DL had an earlier presence on the West Coast, which increased with the Western merger, kept the SLC hub. But, they scaled back the flying on the West Coast that didn't involve service in and out of SLC. United was the only carrier that tried to fight Southwest, launching Shuttle by United to fly point-to-point routes, while "United" flew in and out of SFO. Over time, UA scaled back the Shuttle.

As to BNA and RDU, those reductions started after the recession of the early 1990s. AA learned that it just couldn't set up a hub any where. There had to be enough O&D traffic to make the hub profitable. Add to the mix that DL, between ATL and CVG, was the 900 pound gorilla in the Southeast, and US had a loyal following with the Piedmont merger.

AA was running 3rd in the Southeast and saw no way to increase its market share in the region.

STL was AA's plan to deal with the delays at ORD. The summer of 2000 was one of the stormiest in probably 2 decades. It seemed that the Weather Channel was running a crawler every afternoon and evening about severe weather warnings and/or watches. The City of Chicago was several years away from starting construction of the 3rd east-west runway. Buying TWA and using STL as the fallback, when ORD or DFW went into delays made a lot of sense.

Again STL doesn't have the O&D traffic that ORD and DFW do, and the aftermath of 9/11 cut into the amount of operations at ORD. Simply put, STL became unnecessary.

The problem with the second try at SJC was the dot.com and technology collapse. According to a friend of mine at AA, dot.com executives were buying first class seats for business trips, after the slew of IPOs. They were flush with cash and spent like there was no tomorrow. After the market crash in April of 2000, the dot.coms went broke. Technology spending plummeted after Y2K and the recession, which led to Silicon Valley companies cutting travel .

That isn't to say that AA knows what it's doing. Frankly, it doesn't. They have been conserving spending, while competitors have been spending and taking away market share. Sometimes, you have to spend money to make money, and the best time to spend money is when you don't have 2 nickels to your name. If management understood that cliche, they might not be sitting in Chapter 11 right now.


User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4941 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 19320 times:

One of the biggest things that AA has never learned, your employees are your biggest asset.
AA has been treating them like dirt for the past 25 years!



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 18578 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
So what AA has done is create an identity for themselves of buying carriers and closing most or all of the routes ie, AirCal, RenoAir, TWA, and then virtually leaving the market. Only to have a lower-cost carrier come in and take the routes, wait until the AA competition is finally a skeleton of what it once was, and then raise the fares higher than what their predecessor was.

^^^^^^^This is AA's business model. Give away marginal flying to other carriers, then buy them, shut down the operations and repeat. I am afraid this isnt done yet...



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User currently offlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 699 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 17840 times:

I agree with the OP.

I would add that from the point of view of the flying public, front-line employee attitudes matter a lot. I've certainly felt like being treated as dirt, and not getting even my basic expectations met. Fly another carrier, say, B6, and you felt wonderful.

But I've been flying AA a little bit now after their bankruptcy and I seem to detect some kind of an attitude change for the positive. Maybe this is just a random coincidence, but they seemed to be taking the customers pretty seriously now. If that is what the difficult times do for them, maybe there is some good in the bankruptcy process.


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4363 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 17513 times:

They have been timid when they needed to be bold, missing out on acquisition opportunities to get into the Pacific is the biggest example of this.


And needlessly bold (more like reckless) with the TWA buy out which was a terrible idea.


All they have to show for it really is debt, they did inherit their LHR rights but every US Airline is in there now so it really just amounted to a huge waste of money.



Hanging on to a huge fleet of obsolete MD80's was another huge blunder.


Just to name a few..


One thing they have been consistent about is mistreating their employees.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently onlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8276 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 15681 times:
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Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):
All they have to show for it really is debt, they did inherit their LHR rights but every US Airline is in there now so it really just amounted to a huge waste of money.

TWA sold their LHR routes to AA for lots and lots of $$$. TWA scalped AA for $445, 000,000 in 1991 for BOS, JFK and LAX plus $ 195,000,000 for ORD to LHR a year before. Those purchases gave AA the right to operate at LHR 17 years before Open Skies in 2008. AA made lots of money over those years at LHR, if ot had not the slots could have been sold to Emiratres or Qatar Air for lots of $$$.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20365 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 14150 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 7):
So, when WN moved into the West. both AA and US bailed.

WN moved into the west coast because US bailed, not the other way 'round. (The story is in 'Nuts', I believe.)



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinedartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 643 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13976 times:
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One important fact here is that AMR's first bankruptcy is now -- years after all of their competitors. While CO, US, UA, DL, and NW all went through bankruptcy restructuring in the 90s or 00s, AA didn't. That means they did not have an opportunity to restructure their leases, their employee contracts, etc.

They did everything they could to avoid bankruptcy in 2003, and in the end, it was a big disservice to the airline's long-term prospects as it put them in a terribly uncompetitive position relative to the other network carriers. If they had known then what they know now, they surely would not have avoided bankruptcy and would have gone in full speed!

They had to drop all those routes because they were unprofitable at AA's cost, which was significantly higher than competition.

Now is the time to give AA a chance, over the next year as they come out of bankruptcy (not counting any potential merger). They will have costs in line, still a huge chunk of cash in the bank, and a real opportunity to compete.


User currently offlineAAplat4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13808 times:

Costs are just one factor in AA's ability to compete. Old, cranky aircraft with few amenities and cutting its route structure are other reasons. These are management failings, plain and simple. It's not as if AA union employees have failed to give concessions since 9/11 and gotten huge pay raises. Overall, I think the AA employees do very well in terms of customer treatment under the circumstances, although my last flight was full of angry, tired F/As. That is an exception in my experience rather than the rule.

User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1149 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13613 times:

Boeing Guy I love how you say I will never fly 3-4-3 but in reality if it works for AA and they make $$$ you will see DL/UA do the same thing and soon you wont have a choice. A lot of people make a fuss about this but in the end the same people will fly because they can get a cheaper fare on AA. This all comes back to food/pillows/blankets/bags the people are not willing to pay what it costs and a little profit to fly them from point A to point B. But they all complain once they are charged for these items. AA tried with MRTC and wanted the same people to say who wants to fly Y when they can fly on AA and get Y+ on ever seat in coach it was amazing Y product and yet it fizzled.

User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13196 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 2):
Quoting panpan (Reply 3):

9/11 really screwed AA on a lot of levels. However, the Arpey years were even more damaging in the long run. For an airline that AVOIDED bankruptcy in 2003, you'd figure based on the moves they made between 2002-2010 that AA was actually IN bankruptcy!

They blew it on a few key levels, IMHO:
--Deferring 738 deliveries in 2001, not taking 738s again until 2009 (no new 738 frames between 2002-2009)
--Not figuring out a proper S80 replacement as fuel prices were sky rocketing.
--Not entering BK in 2003
--Not revising a pilot contract to get in E170s and E190s.
--Not figuring out a proper A300 replacement.

AA over the last 15 years has just been too conservative. So yes, they started digging their own grave years ago.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12789 times:

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 16):
AA tried with MRTC and wanted the same people to say who wants to fly Y when they can fly on AA and get Y+ on ever seat in coach it was amazing Y product and yet it fizzled.

UA has had Economy Plus for more than a decade (both short and long haul), so clearly there's a profitable market for rewarding elites while doing the occasional upsell.

JetBlue also has a very successfully 38" legroom product even though regular Y is already 34", and doesn't look like they're about to cancel that program anytime soon.

MRTC not succeeding is more the exception than the rule.


User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7447 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12686 times:

You can add to your list pulling mainline out of some NY cities. We (ROC) lost mainline in 2003,IIRC. AA was the only major to leave mainline and not return. Not to mention pulling DFW on Eagle. Plus,we only have service to 1 destination,ORD. While every other airline here has multiple destinations.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12563 times:

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 4):
They are slowly returning to their game, even in Bankruptcy. Take note of front line employees, the push to get planes out on time, better services.

I have seen this happen in airline BK...including my own employer. Some of my most petulant coworkers became gung-ho seemingly overnight. I think that once ones employer goes into Ch. 11...."this &%@$ gets real"...as the kids say :P.
The flip side to this phenomena is that the longer the BK process goes on, not only will the bad apples will revert to old behavior; employees who were positive will become disillusioned.


User currently offlineCRFLY From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2004, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12057 times:

Yes, a very sad story indeed...

I flew almost a million miles on AA back in the 90s and 2000s and it was a great airline, great services and great connectivity... But AA forgot about us in Latin America, the premium passengers that will fly them no matter what... The MIA hub in a permanent renovation, flight delays of up to 3 hours and my favorite one... The A300 broken all the time, with delays of up to 12 hours! Come on AA! You turned from being the leader from the US to Latin America to be the worst nightmare of rude employees, long delays, costumer unfriendly terminals and old unreliable airplanes (I flew from SJO to MIA on the A300 that crashed in JFK days later, for whatever reason it was!) So at the end it is a very sad story, "from first to worse" and there are thousands of people that think like me, let's avoid AA at all costs and just leave it as our last option!

I truly hope they succeed in the reorganization and slowly become the AA we always wanted, but by now Delta, United and JetBlue are miles away, with a very happy and rewarded clientele that must be thinking "why go back to AA now? This folks are doing a great job and I don't feel like going back to AA anymore!" Good luck to all!



With Age comes Wisdom...
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11908 times:

I forgot about TWA. AA also blew it there big time by not keeping the 717 or PMTW 757. Selling them to Delta was so dumb.

Quoting CRFLY (Reply 21):
I truly hope they succeed in the reorganization and slowly become the AA we always wanted, but by now Delta, United and JetBlue are miles away, with a very happy and rewarded clientele that must be thinking "why go back to AA now? This folks are doing a great job and I don't feel like going back to AA anymore!" Good luck to all!

I work at a company where a large amount of upper managment fly AA as if it were something holy. They view flying United or Delta as a non-option. AA still has it's fair share of high tier elites, especially after United recently treating their 1K's like dirt and the SHARES issue -- quite a few switched over to AA during integration.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3548 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10621 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
While I understand why they sold the ex-TWA 757s for commonality because they had PW engines, they sold them to their biggest competitor who uses them to make money on international flights. Those were by-far the most comfortable of AA's 757s when they had them, IMHO. Likewise, I think selling the 717s was very shortsighted as AA could now really use an excellent 100 seat airplane, as the 717 is.

I don't think any of the 757s or 717s were ever owned by TW or AA - they were all leased. While some love to criticize and monday morning quarterback here, the lease terms on those planes weren't favorable and thus they were returned to their lessor. Getting rid of those planes made sense at the time.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 17):
9/11 really screwed AA on a lot of levels. However, the Arpey years were even more damaging in the long run. For an airline that AVOIDED bankruptcy in 2003, you'd figure based on the moves they made between 2002-2010 that AA was actually IN bankruptcy!

Indeed it did. It's the main reason that AA did what it did to STL and TW. It was the wrong purchase at the wrong time, but no one could have predicted 9/11 at the end of 2000.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):
One thing they have been consistent about is mistreating their employees.

You're right. You know, because they're consistantly one of the most overpaid and underworked labor groups in the industry.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 16):
A lot of people make a fuss about this but in the end the same people will fly because they can get a cheaper fare on AA.

Bingo. For most of the high dollar pax that really matter to AA, they'll be flying either business/first or they'll be upgraded to Y+ as part of their elite benefits. Those filling up the 3-4-3 Y will be the price conscious customers that just picked the cheapest fare off of Expedia.

People tend to forget that the vast majority of the population isn't as educated about aircraft and airlines as we are. They just want to get from point A to point B at the cheapest price and they more than likely don't care what airline they fly on, let alone how the aircraft they're flying on is configured. This will work well for AA and if they do succeed, don't be surprised to see the other legacies following suit. People said the same thing about baggage fees and now the airlines are making billions/year off of them and the general flying public has come to accept it.



PHX based
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10435 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 23):
People tend to forget that the vast majority of the population isn't as educated about aircraft and airlines as we are. They just want to get from point A to point B at the cheapest price and they more than likely don't care what airline they fly on, let alone how the aircraft they're flying on is configured. This will work well for AA and if they do succeed, don't be surprised to see the other legacies following suit. People said the same thing about baggage fees and now the airlines are making billions/year off of them and the general flying public has come to accept it.

Not totally apples and oranges.

Regarding baggage fees, the alternative is packing less or carry-ons (why do you think the the boarding process for a 753 to MCO is slower than boarding a 747 to Asia?). One can easily avoid the baggage fee, even without elite status.

But regarding the seat, the alternative is to cough up more for Y+ buy-up, or another carrier. If seat comfort means nothing and price is everything, we'd all be flying Spirit, Ryanair, and Monarch.


25 United_fan : TW's bad credit made their 717 lease payments too high . AA returned them to their lessor. The PMTW 757's were P&W birds. AA's are RR .
26 BoeingGuy : Yeah, I had really hoped people would rise up on protest First Bag fees. Those are entirely inappropriate in the era of carry-on liquid restrictions.
27 sevenfeet : The city is Nashville is currently celebrating the 75th anniversary of BNA and one of the major events in the airport's history was the building of th
28 mikesairways : OldDominion727, I too watched the growth and decline of SJC growing up. I'd love to hear about some of what you wrote in your report. I'll never fully
29 AADC10 : AA has been fairly well managed, as illustrated by it being the last major to have to file for Ch. 11. Unlike other airlines, particularly UA, AA aggr
30 tommy767 : So? United has PW and RR as well..
31 United_fan : Maybe they didnt have enough PW birds to make it worth wild to keep both.
32 Post contains images LOWS : Yes! For two more years!
33 olddominion727 : I've met a few AirCal, QQ & TW employees, as well as traditional AA ground folks. They all love their jobs. I am sure there are a few bad nuts th
34 olddominion727 : Not true. WN already had purchased Morris Air and opened a minihub in OAK. Plus WN had been flying SFO-SAN,SFO-PHX,SFO-ABQ for almost 10 years at tha
35 caliboy78 : Without getting all of you all mad and stuff!!!!! I would like to know why some of you are complainting so much about the 3-4-3 in AA. If any of you l
36 ripcordd : AA has done some great things with their fleet and to reduce sub-fleets and fleets to only a handful to keep costs down. To keep a very very small sub
37 N62NA : I don't think being last to file Chapter 11 bankruptcy indicates that they were well managed at all.
38 IrishAyes : Actually, arguably this wound up being a much costlier decision for AA than it seems. AA's labor relations have been through a long, sorrowful histor
39 msp747 : WN didn't officially take over Morris Air until 1994, 6 and 7 years after US and AA took over PSA and AirCal. And SFO wasn't originally a success for
40 Post contains images lightsaber : My last flights on AA were great! I think they are 100X better than pre-bankruptcy. Now to see them turn the financial corner... A well managed airlin
41 ChrisNH : BOS-SFO really has been much more of a mainstay for UA than with AA. AA was late to BOS-SFO relatively speaking; it was a route only served by UA DC-1
42 GSPSPOT : AA can still salvage its image and cachet, IF it acts intelligently. Give customers a predictable, consistent and superior product at reasonable (not
43 IrishAyes : I really don't understand why people seem to peg the legacy carrier pull-down at BOS all on AA. What people don't realize is that US and DL have simi
44 Post contains images GSPSPOT : Haven't most legacies (and AA now) gone thru BK specifically to get their costs in line with LCC's? I think that's why we're seeing things like WN pr
45 Post contains images LOWS : Did you miss my ?
46 skycub : Wasn't a success? Says who? Southwest has said time and time again that is dropped SFO due to ATC delays. It is back at SFO now and bigger that they
47 darksnowynight : This makes a lot more sense than the other excuses I've heard. I have to admit that it is of somewhat concern that AA really doesn't have anything in
48 ChrisNH : True, Boston is 'relatively' close to New York, but so too is Dulles...and the draw-down there hasn't been nearly as pronounced. The Boston metro mar
49 msp747 : Slow down buddy. You're getting hung up on the wrong thing here. I was not ripping on SFO, all I said was that it was one of the few airports WN has
50 United_fan : Well,its obvious AA doesnt want a mixed-engine-type fleet.
51 EricR : In hindsight, I think most of AA's executives would admit that not declaring BK sooner put them at a severe cost disadvantage. This disadvantage meant
52 BoeingGuy : Gee, I wonder why. Maybe that's because they keep dropping all those routes. As I mentioned previously, AA once had a lot of Boeing and Microsoft and
53 Cubsrule : SFO still has horrendous ATC problems when it's foggy. WN seems to know how to handle it by absolutely swarming the ticket counter with employees and
54 EricR : Well, this is where it will get interesting. Under current/old AA management, I would agree. However, under new management we could not automatically
55 Cubsrule : Is the issue pre-acquisition management or post-acquisition management? Seems like many of the acquisitions - OC and QQ in particular - weren't wise
56 Post contains images united319 : I had the pleasure of flying on one of the ex-TW 752s in 2005 from DFW-SAN. It was extremely comfortable. Especially since I was sitting in the 2L ex
57 EricR : I cannot fault their objective - attempting to increase connectivity and market share in the west. However, the manner in which they did (acquiring c
58 BoeingGuy : No it wouldn't AA would probably have completely dropped the entire SLC hub within a few years. That's what AA does and what most airline mergers do.
59 Post contains images EricR : Well I did use the word "could" for a reason. However, I think SLC may have had a different outcome. AA will retain a hub if it is profitable AND mos
60 qqflyboy : You may be happy to learn that nearly half of AA's active 757 fleet has been reconfigured: 20 for international long haul and 33 domestic. 55 a/c rem
61 Blueman87 : what airlines got bailouts i dont remember reading this they bailed out th FAA not the airlines
62 qqflyboy : Congress authorized up to $10 billion in secured loans as part of the post 9/11 bailout to the airlines. HP, F9 and World were three who took the loa
63 ripcordd : Again TWA was lucky that AA bought them cause nobody else wanted to and I wish they would have never have they paid 1 billion or so for what? All tho
64 Blueman87 : most of those pilots were furloughed and misrepresented by AA unions there was a big lawsuit in NJ about this
65 EricR : I just realized the title of the thread is misspelled. I think it should be spelled as follows: "Has AA Doug their own grave?"
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