BAW076 From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2006, 746 posts, RR: 29 Reply 5, posted (11 months 16 hours ago) and read 10157 times:
Since BMR are banged to rights and won't be around for much longer, who will take over the EDI-LBA route?
I imagine that the only contender would be Flybe/Loganair for this route. Could be a useful one for Loganair in the Saab 340, they recently started GLA-LBA... Not sure what the loads are like though.
gkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24621 posts, RR: 58 Reply 6, posted (11 months 16 hours ago) and read 10150 times:
Quoting BAW076 (Reply 5): Not sure what the loads are like though.
The EDI flight competed with the East Coast train service and thus loads on the flights were abysmal - although those flying may have been paying a large premium. GLA does not have the direct train IIRC, so it's more cost effective to fly.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
gingersnap From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2010, 854 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (11 months 13 hours ago) and read 9267 times:
Quoting gkirk (Reply 6): The EDI flight competed with the East Coast train service and thus loads on the flights were abysmal - although those flying may have been paying a large premium. GLA does not have the direct train IIRC, so it's more cost effective to fly.
I'm fairly certain you can catch a train out of London Euston to Glasgow Central. Also East Coast run the odd service from Kings Cross to Glasgow via Edinburgh (or at least they did).
rutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2001 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (11 months 12 hours ago) and read 9184 times:
Quoting gingersnap (Reply 9): I'm fairly certain you can catch a train out of London Euston to Glasgow Central. Also East Coast run the odd service from Kings Cross to Glasgow via Edinburgh (or at least they did).
Gkirk was talking about Leeds- Scotland traffic not London- Scotland
As for Leeds- Glasgow by train its a picturesque and sedate experience at best via the Settle - Carlisle line
on one of these
As for LBA - EDI the route collapsed as a direct result of the banking crisis and loss of premium RBS/Halifax traffic
vinniewinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 727 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (11 months 10 hours ago) and read 8724 times:
There is a direct train operated by Crosscountry between Leeds and Glasgow arriving at lunchtime. Otherwise a 5h30 start enables you to arrive at at around 9h40 in Glasgow. Not ideal but not too bad either!
Back on topic: this is a flight for connecting people correct? So if I live in Leeds or York and don't want to drive to Manchester, my choices are to connect in Heathrow or Amsterdam to go to a far flung destination. Am I correct in saying this?
theginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1110 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (11 months 8 hours ago) and read 8425 times:
Quoting gkirk (Reply 6): The EDI flight competed with the East Coast train service and thus loads on the flights were abysmal - although those flying may have been paying a large premium. GLA does not have the direct train IIRC, so it's more cost effective to fly
As the UK is yet to build a proper highspeed train network the train London to Edinburgh takes over 4 hours so the flights compete with this even adding in getting from London to Heathrow. Although the train often works out cheaper as you don't have to pay tax!
To Leeds from London the train is just over 2 hours so is better than going to Heathrow so I imagine the Leeds flight will help people wanting to connect on to other services.
planejamie From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2011, 572 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (11 months 4 hours ago) and read 7360 times:
Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10): Gkirk was talking about Leeds- Scotland traffic not London- Scotland
As for Leeds- Glasgow by train its a picturesque and sedate experience at best via the Settle - Carlisle line
on one of these
Jesus christ that would be hell and hardly sedate! Those Northern Rail 'passenger' (more like freight) trains are dire. Most, if not all of them (and certainly the one in the picture) are rattly, old, crappy 1980s diesel things that make you think "oh f**k" when you see them pull into the platform, at least I did twice the other day going from my local town into Preston. If Trans Pennine Express ran a train service up there, that would be nice
Aside from that, I have flown over the Settle railway line/station and used it as a reference for some solo nav work And whilst I want to see LBA grow a bit (even if it's not local for me) I think they seriously need to update the entire airport to attract more passengers, it's beyond the low cost feel it's more like stepping back into the 70s at times (and not in a nostalgic good way).
anshuk From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2009, 480 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (11 months 2 hours ago) and read 6265 times:
Quoting theginge (Reply 13): As the UK is yet to build a proper highspeed train network the train London to Edinburgh takes over 4 hours so the flights compete with this even adding in getting from London to Heathrow. Although the train often works out cheaper as you don't have to pay tax!
I have flown this route two times on BMI, having paid £72 rtn and £80 rtn respectively. A train ticket bought on the day costs £180+ and an advance ticket costs at least £50 for the return. Taking the cost and time of commuting to and from LHR and to and from EDI into account, I'd say the train is more convenient as it goes from Central London to the city centre of Edinburgh.
The slots came from MAN services, so in terms of capacity on domestic there is nothing. Also, these flights are seen as slot sitters as anstar points out. The betting is around 18 months.
I would also wait until the BMI integration is fully in place, as I would expect the UK domestic flights to LHR/LGW to continue their decline.
viscount630 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 223 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4660 times:
Why is it scarcely mentioned that it's a welcome BACK to LBA?? BKS/Northeast (later absorbed by BA) flew the LHR route for over 20 years, and had even built up a sizeable network based at LBA. In the 70s and 80s, I worked at LHR for both BA-Northeast and BMA, who later took over the route, and we managed very healthy loads with 70+seat Viscount 800s and 810s up to four times a day. How well the route will do now, with domestic business traffic so reduced (as much to do with actual business travel being much less needed in the age of the internet, as economic changes) As just a low yield "feeder" to the LHR network, I'm not sure I can see it thriving for very long if BA decide they need those slots for something else. Hopefully, I'll be proved wrong though http://www.airliners.net/photo/BKS-A...d=6b0b14111e85c4b55a044af80269bef0
mikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3695 times:
Quoting anstar (Reply 17): I presume it will be short lived and will be a slot holder until new long haul aircraft arrive in a few years time.
I think you will find that the amount of slots obtained from the BD sale will require an amount of 'new long-haul aircraft' that BA just hasn't got on its order books. The slots will enable the airline to operate short-haul/domestic 'not' at the sacrifice of long-haul.
If BA were that in need of said aircraft I'm sure they would be 'firing up' the 744's still in the desert.
Add to that your correct assumption of an increase in new long haul routes and where they will be to i.e the East (China etc) domestic links will be both sustainable/profitable and due to the BD slots not I repeat 'not' at the expense of long-haul.
Don't forget the combined synergies of joint ventures and the arrival of the A380 at BA and mixed mode flying, the use of larger aircraft on domestic etc will GREATLY amplify the strength of BA's presence at the worlds premier long-haul airport and thus reduce the pressure even more.
I would expect to see a big reduction in the amout of people currently transitting through continental Europe from the UK to said destinations particularly AMS and CDG which won't help Air France groups current predicament.
For instance KLM Cityhopper flies 4 daily from LBA...will be interesting to see how this news impacts that etc
[Edited 2012-06-30 01:36:26]
[Edited 2012-06-30 01:58:26]
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
mikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3614 times:
KLM etc has been 'keeping LBA warm' if you like.
It is and will be.....interesting to see the dynamic work in the reverse for a change now that BA has been given the opportunity to re-enter various point in its 'home' market.
[Edited 2012-06-30 02:10:14]
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
jumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 471 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3557 times:
Quoting col (Reply 19): Also, these flights are seen as slot sitters as anstar points out.
If BA wanted routes to use as slot sitters wouldnt it be less complex to add extra journeys to airports where they have an exisitng facility - CDG, BCN, FCO etc - take your pick- rather than gear up a new operation if they were only planning to operate it for a short period?
goosebayguy From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 226 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3518 times:
I flew LHR-LBA-LHR about a month before BMI ceased flying the route. It cost £500 return paid for by BAe luckily. The flight was full both ways yet they said they were not making money!
25 rutankrd: Because bmi probably wasn't. Many/most of those would have been connecting onto *A and indeed BA (They codeshared for while did they not) and others
26 mikey72: If the Leeds Bradford area are as delighted and confident in their ability to support the route as they say they are in recent press reports about th
27 sevenheavy: Aside from the frames that are/were in the process of being scrapped in CWL I think they're pretty much all back in service Absolutely. LBA is always
28 rutankrd: Provision has to be viable and meet customer expectations/needs At the moment i don't think the scheduled does that effectively. BA may yet recover a
29 mikey72: Well nobody can blame them for that ? On that one the buck stops with government policy on expansion.
30 VV701: Railway travel is also subsidised by you and me and all other British tax payers by about £5 billion a year or about £80 for every man, woman and c
31 mikey72: Either way it's good news for BA. W701...you're usually hot on all the figures...what additional aircraft would need to be ordered to convert all the
32 steve7e7: Just booked for me and t'other half to fly up on the inaugural service I was on the last BA Viscount into LBA all those years ago so it makes sense to
33 VV701: Wow. What a question! But flattery gets you anywhere. So here is my guesstimate and reasoning: BA bought 6 BD LHR daily slot pairs from Lufthansa Gro
34 mikey72: Wow....you're amazing...LOL. Thanks. Isn't that just 'default moaning' without actually studying what's happening ?
35 VV701: Should we really expect our media to look at facts rather than listen to and repeat rhetoric. The Herald newspaper starts a recent article: "AIR pass
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And whilst I want to see LBA grow a bit (even if it's not local for me) I think they seriously need to update the entire airport to attract more passengers, it's beyond the low cost feel it's more like stepping back into the 70s at times (and not in a nostalgic good way).
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