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British Airways Welcomes You To Leeds...  
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11797 times:

http://www.etravelblackboardasia.com.../84934/ba-to-fly-leeds-to-heathrow

That's good news for all concerned.

BA is improving coverage on the domestic front.

Be interesting to watch developments................


Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBAW076 From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2006, 750 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11782 times:

Old news mate!

BA - BMI Domestic T1 And T5 (by liverpoola380 Jun 27 2012 in Civil Aviation)



N754AN (x2), G-CPEL, G-MIDE, G-BPEC, G-BZHC, EI-DCH, LN-KKN, G-VIIW, G-BNLT, G-DBCA, G-MEDE, G-DBCE, G-MIDP.
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11761 times:

Quoting BAW076 (Reply 1):
Old news mate!

Oh for gods sake.

Lol



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineBAW076 From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2006, 750 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11741 times:

LOL don't worry, we've all done it in our time!

Great news for LBA though!



N754AN (x2), G-CPEL, G-MIDE, G-BPEC, G-BZHC, EI-DCH, LN-KKN, G-VIIW, G-BNLT, G-DBCA, G-MEDE, G-DBCE, G-MIDP.
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11710 times:

Quoting BAW076 (Reply 3):
Great news for LBA though!

Great news for a great city.

(when its not under water)

  



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineBAW076 From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2006, 750 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11650 times:

Since BMR are banged to rights and won't be around for much longer, who will take over the EDI-LBA route?

I imagine that the only contender would be Flybe/Loganair for this route. Could be a useful one for Loganair in the Saab 340, they recently started GLA-LBA... Not sure what the loads are like though.



N754AN (x2), G-CPEL, G-MIDE, G-BPEC, G-BZHC, EI-DCH, LN-KKN, G-VIIW, G-BNLT, G-DBCA, G-MEDE, G-DBCE, G-MIDP.
User currently offlinegkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11643 times:

Quoting BAW076 (Reply 5):
Not sure what the loads are like though.

The EDI flight competed with the East Coast train service and thus loads on the flights were abysmal - although those flying may have been paying a large premium. GLA does not have the direct train IIRC, so it's more cost effective to fly.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineBAW076 From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2006, 750 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11589 times:

I just checked the loads on today's GLA-LBA-GLA flights:

This mornings flight was:
BE6980 GLA-LBA... 6 pax
BE6981 LBA-GLA... 3 pax

And for this afternoon's flight:
BE6984 GLA-LBA... 19 pax
BE6985 LBA-GLA... 8 pax

So out of 136 seats overall, only 36 have been filled.



N754AN (x2), G-CPEL, G-MIDE, G-BPEC, G-BZHC, EI-DCH, LN-KKN, G-VIIW, G-BNLT, G-DBCA, G-MEDE, G-DBCE, G-MIDP.
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11100 times:

EDI-LBA was dropped in April before the sale.

User currently offlinegingersnap From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2010, 894 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10761 times:

Quoting gkirk (Reply 6):
The EDI flight competed with the East Coast train service and thus loads on the flights were abysmal - although those flying may have been paying a large premium. GLA does not have the direct train IIRC, so it's more cost effective to fly.

I'm fairly certain you can catch a train out of London Euston to Glasgow Central. Also East Coast run the odd service from Kings Cross to Glasgow via Edinburgh (or at least they did).



Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10677 times:
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Quoting gingersnap (Reply 9):
I'm fairly certain you can catch a train out of London Euston to Glasgow Central. Also East Coast run the odd service from Kings Cross to Glasgow via Edinburgh (or at least they did).

Gkirk was talking about Leeds- Scotland traffic not London- Scotland

As for Leeds- Glasgow by train its a picturesque and sedate experience at best via the Settle - Carlisle line
on one of these


As for LBA - EDI the route collapsed as a direct result of the banking crisis and loss of premium RBS/Halifax traffic


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7212 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10676 times:

With loads like what was reported above, no wonder the route will be dropped

[Edited 2012-06-29 05:36:43]


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinevinniewinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 794 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10217 times:

There is a direct train operated by Crosscountry between Leeds and Glasgow arriving at lunchtime. Otherwise a 5h30 start enables you to arrive at at around 9h40 in Glasgow. Not ideal but not too bad either!

Back on topic: this is a flight for connecting people correct? So if I live in Leeds or York and don't want to drive to Manchester, my choices are to connect in Heathrow or Amsterdam to go to a far flung destination. Am I correct in saying this?

Vincent


User currently offlinetheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9918 times:

Quoting gkirk (Reply 6):
The EDI flight competed with the East Coast train service and thus loads on the flights were abysmal - although those flying may have been paying a large premium. GLA does not have the direct train IIRC, so it's more cost effective to fly

As the UK is yet to build a proper highspeed train network the train London to Edinburgh takes over 4 hours so the flights compete with this even adding in getting from London to Heathrow. Although the train often works out cheaper as you don't have to pay tax!

To Leeds from London the train is just over 2 hours so is better than going to Heathrow so I imagine the Leeds flight will help people wanting to connect on to other services.


User currently offlineplanejamie From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2011, 576 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8853 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
Gkirk was talking about Leeds- Scotland traffic not London- Scotland

As for Leeds- Glasgow by train its a picturesque and sedate experience at best via the Settle - Carlisle line
on one of these

Jesus christ that would be hell and hardly sedate! Those Northern Rail 'passenger' (more like freight) trains are dire. Most, if not all of them (and certainly the one in the picture) are rattly, old, crappy 1980s diesel things that make you think "oh f**k" when you see them pull into the platform, at least I did twice the other day going from my local town into Preston. If Trans Pennine Express ran a train service up there, that would be nice

Aside from that, I have flown over the Settle railway line/station and used it as a reference for some solo nav work   And whilst I want to see LBA grow a bit (even if it's not local for me) I think they seriously need to update the entire airport to attract more passengers, it's beyond the low cost feel it's more like stepping back into the 70s at times (and not in a nostalgic good way).

I hope BA make LHR-LBA work though  


User currently offlineanshuk From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2009, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7758 times:

Quoting theginge (Reply 13):
As the UK is yet to build a proper highspeed train network the train London to Edinburgh takes over 4 hours so the flights compete with this even adding in getting from London to Heathrow. Although the train often works out cheaper as you don't have to pay tax!

I have flown this route two times on BMI, having paid £72 rtn and £80 rtn respectively. A train ticket bought on the day costs £180+ and an advance ticket costs at least £50 for the return. Taking the cost and time of commuting to and from LHR and to and from EDI into account, I'd say the train is more convenient as it goes from Central London to the city centre of Edinburgh.


User currently offlinespud757 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7714 times:

Quoting planejamie (Reply 14):

LBA has undergone terminal redevelopment so hopefully a much better pax experience:
http://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.u...irport-development-2011/investment
plus they have a lounge now so assume BA will have negotiated access for BA exec club tier status members.

Good to see BA adding domestic connections to LHR from LBA.


User currently onlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5263 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6779 times:

I presume it will be short lived and will be a slot holder until new long haul aircraft arrive in a few years time.

User currently offlinewoodentom From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6430 times:

Quote:
British Airways welcomes you to Leeds...

And Bradford!! It is Leeds Bradford airport after all  


User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2122 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6418 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Thread starter):
BA is improving coverage on the domestic front.

The slots came from MAN services, so in terms of capacity on domestic there is nothing. Also, these flights are seen as slot sitters as anstar points out. The betting is around 18 months.

I would also wait until the BMI integration is fully in place, as I would expect the UK domestic flights to LHR/LGW to continue their decline.


User currently offlineviscount630 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6153 times:
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Why is it scarcely mentioned that it's a welcome BACK to LBA?? BKS/Northeast (later absorbed by BA) flew the LHR route for over 20 years, and had even built up a sizeable network based at LBA. In the 70s and 80s, I worked at LHR for both BA-Northeast and BMA, who later took over the route, and we managed very healthy loads with 70+seat Viscount 800s and 810s up to four times a day. How well the route will do now, with domestic business traffic so reduced (as much to do with actual business travel being much less needed in the age of the internet, as economic changes) As just a low yield "feeder" to the LHR network, I'm not sure I can see it thriving for very long if BA decide they need those slots for something else. Hopefully, I'll be proved wrong though  http://www.airliners.net/photo/BKS-A...d=6b0b14111e85c4b55a044af80269bef0

http://www.airliners.net/photo/BKS-A...d=e417080b925f52a54402359409bb2715

http://www.airliners.net/photo/BKS-A...d=aa3bd8c8c54ca75bed66589d475255c9

http://www.airliners.net/photo/North...d=8191e182eb4c92f037eeeb7d42d41728

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Briti...d=6e2862ca558e8fa76ee01b488238c273



RIP Dan-Air. Where the Secret was SERVICE.
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5188 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 17):
I presume it will be short lived and will be a slot holder until new long haul aircraft arrive in a few years time.

I think you will find that the amount of slots obtained from the BD sale will require an amount of 'new long-haul aircraft' that BA just hasn't got on its order books. The slots will enable the airline to operate short-haul/domestic 'not' at the sacrifice of long-haul.

If BA were that in need of said aircraft I'm sure they would be 'firing up' the 744's still in the desert.

Add to that your correct assumption of an increase in new long haul routes and where they will be to i.e the East (China etc) domestic links will be both sustainable/profitable and due to the BD slots not I repeat 'not' at the expense of long-haul.

Don't forget the combined synergies of joint ventures and the arrival of the A380 at BA and mixed mode flying, the use of larger aircraft on domestic etc will GREATLY amplify the strength of BA's presence at the worlds premier long-haul airport and thus reduce the pressure even more.

I would expect to see a big reduction in the amout of people currently transitting through continental Europe from the UK to said destinations particularly AMS and CDG which won't help Air France groups current predicament.



For instance KLM Cityhopper flies 4 daily from LBA...will be interesting to see how this news impacts that etc


[Edited 2012-06-30 01:36:26]


[Edited 2012-06-30 01:58:26]


Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5107 times:

KLM etc has been 'keeping LBA warm' if you like.

It is and will be.....interesting to see the dynamic work in the reverse for a change now that BA has been given the opportunity to re-enter various point in its 'home' market.

[Edited 2012-06-30 02:10:14]


Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 846 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5050 times:

Quoting col (Reply 19):
Also, these flights are seen as slot sitters as anstar points out.

If BA wanted routes to use as slot sitters wouldnt it be less complex to add extra journeys to airports where they have an exisitng facility - CDG, BCN, FCO etc - take your pick- rather than gear up a new operation if they were only planning to operate it for a short period?


User currently offlinegoosebayguy From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5011 times:

I flew LHR-LBA-LHR about a month before BMI ceased flying the route. It cost £500 return paid for by BAe luckily. The flight was full both ways yet they said they were not making money!

User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 25, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5116 times:
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Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 24):

I flew LHR-LBA-LHR about a month before BMI ceased flying the route. It cost £500 return paid for by BAe luckily. The flight was full both ways yet they said they were not making money!

Because bmi probably wasn't.
Many/most of those would have been connecting onto *A and indeed BA (They codeshared for while did they not) and others including VS.
The way bean counters allocate revenue from connections like this(rarely coving costs) inevitably leaves the domestic legs booked as operating at a loss.

To maintain viability a significant portion of revenue on the domestic leg MUST come from O&D (local traffic) or at least sale of multiple ticketing.

This revenue distribution issue lead to BA terminating Belfast and bmi more recently Glasgow.

As others have said 18 months maybe before the bean counters determine the viability. It won't work as a commuter without an overnight in LBA and a before 8.15am arrival (in LHR) in the schedule where a significant number of £300+ seats can sold.


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4993 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 25):
As others have said 18 months maybe before the bean counters determine the viability

If the Leeds Bradford area are as delighted and confident in their ability to support the route as they say they are in recent press reports about the launch then I see it sticking.

At the end of the day it is upto them to do just that......'support it'



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinesevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1156 posts, RR: 10
Reply 27, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5003 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 21):
If BA were that in need of said aircraft I'm sure they would be 'firing up' the 744's still in the desert.

Aside from the frames that are/were in the process of being scrapped in CWL I think they're pretty much all back in service  
Quoting mikey72 (Reply 26):
If the Leeds Bradford area are as delighted and confident in their ability to support the route as they say they are in recent press reports about the launch then I see it sticking.

At the end of the day it is upto them to do just that......'support it'

Absolutely. LBA is always going to be somewhat vulnerable and it needs commitment from the local authorities, businesses and general population, BUT, its just as much down to BA to provide the right mix of aircraft, frequencies, yield management, connections etc. to make it work.

Who knows if its just a placeholder or not. My concern that even if BA has the best of intentions for the route, something more attractive will present itself in a couple of years when BA has worked through the merger and maybe got a few more options available from its fleet. Ultimately they are a business that needs to make money and if they think they can do better elsewhere, so be it.

Only time will tell.........



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 28, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4944 times:
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Quoting mikey72 (Reply 26):
At the end of the day it is upto them to do just that......'support it'

Provision has to be viable and meet customer expectations/needs

At the moment i don't think the scheduled does that effectively.

BA may yet recover a significant % of connecting traffic however if the route balance doesn't have sufficient full fare end to end , it may yet fail to meet the financials required by the bean counters.

(And this differs from the idea that this route is purely a slot warmer - It isn't as far as i can see)

I agree with your assessment that BA will deploy many of the bmi slot holdings on short haul development as many are of little value/wrong time frame for long haul usage and true BA actually doesn't have significant long haul orders on the books over and above replacement through to 2020.

As pointed out previously the 388/788s deliveries (for replacement) will only begin to reach flexible enough numbers in 2015 !

The 789 test aircraft has yet to be built and deliveries are many years away !

All that said i to hope the LHR-LBA-LHR route is a success (on what ever measurement the bean counters determine)


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 29, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4797 times:

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 27):
Ultimately they are a business that needs to make money and if they think they can do better elsewhere, so be it.

Well nobody can blame them for that ?

On that one the buck stops with government policy on expansion.



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7619 posts, RR: 17
Reply 30, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4473 times:

Quoting theginge (Reply 13):
Although the train often works out cheaper as you don't have to pay tax!

Railway travel is also subsidised by you and me and all other British tax payers by about £5 billion a year or about £80 for every man, woman and child.

Quoting anshuk (Reply 15):
I'd say the train is more convenient as it goes from Central London to the city centre of Edinburgh.

But that, of course, would depend on where you started your journey and to where you are traveling. At the other extreme if you are travelling from Hayes, West Drayton, Staines, Hounslow or Windsor to Turnhouse, Queensferry, Ratho or Kirkliston flying is significantly more convenient and much quicker door-to-door.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 21):
I think you will find that the amount of slots obtained from the BD sale will require an amount of 'new long-haul aircraft' that BA just hasn't got on its order books.

It was announced before Lufthansa Group put BD up for sale that the six 787s due to be delivered to BA in 2013 would all directly replace 763s as would the next 15 scheduled for delivery in 2014-15. Although there has been no announcement that the purchase of BD and its LHR slots has changed this, it would be no great surprise to me if the 787s turned out initially to be additions to BA's long haul fleet with the 763s being kept in service for several more years. After all the youngest of BA's 763s only arrived on delivery at LHR exactly fourteen years ago today, 30 June, and did not fly its first revenue flight until 17 July 1998 and, according to the CAA web site, had only flown 34,951 hours as at 31 December last.

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 27):
Aside from the frames that are/were in the process of being scrapped in CWL I think they're pretty much all back in service

There are three - G-BNLA, 'LD and 'LH - still parked at VCV. However they all require a costly C Check before they could enter service and, on past form, would need to spend around five months at BA Maintenance Cardiff before re-entering service. So the time line would not allow them to re-enter service at the begining of next winter's schedules . And by the Summer 2013 schdules the 787s are likely to be entering service. So there is a time/cost equation to consider in bringing any of the three 744s back from the desert.


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 31, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4024 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 30):
Although there has been no announcement that the purchase of BD and its LHR slots has changed this, it would be no great surprise to me if the 787s turned out initially to be additions to BA's long haul fleet with the 763s being kept in service for several more years. After all the youngest of BA's 763s only arrived on delivery at LHR exactly fourteen years ago today, 30 June, and did not fly its first revenue flight until 17 July 1998 and, according to the CAA web site, had only flown 34,951 hours as at 31 December last.

Either way it's good news for BA.

W701...you're usually hot on all the figures...what additional aircraft would need to be ordered to convert all the (usable in terms of long-haul) slots to actual long-haul services ?

Quoting VV701 (Reply 30):
So there is a time/cost equation to consider in bringing any of the three 744s back from the desert.

They are the nonetheless being kept in 'possible re-entry' condition ?

(whatever that is)

[Edited 2012-07-01 02:24:13]


Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinesteve7e7 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 477 posts, RR: 51
Reply 32, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3699 times:

Just booked for me and t'other half to fly up on the inaugural service  

I was on the last BA Viscount into LBA all those years ago so it makes sense to be on this one.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7619 posts, RR: 17
Reply 33, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 31):
W701...you're usually hot on all the figures...what additional aircraft would need to be ordered to convert all the (usable in terms of long-haul) slots to actual long-haul services ?

Wow. What a question! But flattery gets you anywhere. So here is my guesstimate and reasoning:

BA bought 6 BD LHR daily slot pairs from Lufthansa Group before BD was put up for sale.

It has been reported that BA obtained fifty something daily LHR slot pairs when they purchased BD. Let's call it 50.

However BA is having to release 15 slot pairs to meet the EU's stated requirements.

So that leaves BA with around an additional 40 - perhaps slightly more - new LHR slot pairs.

Most of BA's long haul aircraft operate one rotation every 24 hours. While there are some routes where less than one rotation is completed in 24 hours - such as LHR-SYD-LHR and LHR-JNB-LHR, there are also some where perhaps 1.5 rotations could be completed in 24 hours such as flights from LHR to CAI, TLV an DME. So balancing these two situations out, an assumption of an average of one complete long haul rotation a day for each operational aircraft looks reasonable.

On the basis of these assumptions BA would require around 40 additional long haul aircraft to fill ALL the BD slots, or, perhaps a few more to allow for additional back-up and for obtaining slightly more than 50 BD LHR daily slots.

There has already been an expansion in the BA long haul fleet through the addition of six 77Ws. And I cannot identify six additional daily flights (although new long haul routes like LHR-DME will be indirectly using up some of this additional long haul capacity).

However it is clear from what we have seen so far, despite all the talk being about new long haul flights particularly to Asia, that BA is adding short haul flights as well. For example there have been noises north of the border about the reduction in flights to ABZ and EDI even though BA are adding two flights to each destination. These noises are despite the fact that:

The BD ABZ flights are primarily operated by 50 seat E145s and BA has nothing smaller than a 132 seat A319
That BA CityFlyer has announced a new LCY-ABZ service
That the probability of the 252 seat 763 operating to EDI (instead of a 144 seat BD 319) is high

Nevertheless I cannot see BA using their additional two flights to ABZ and to EDI as slot sitters And I doubt that BA would increase flights from LHR to BGO and SVG from the one-a-day BD service to a two-a-day service from the start of next winter's schedules only to cut the service back to one-a-day or to nothing when more long haul aircraft are delivered. New services always take some time to establish themselves, so quickly replacing a new short haul service with an even newer long haul service does not make too much sense.

I could put a similar argument forward for the announced daily ZAG and three-times-daily LBA flights. But there is still uncertainty for the future of at least some of these short haul services. After all there is LGW just 40 miles down the road. So it is possible that these or other short haul flights could be moved to LGW to provide more long haul slots as the necessary aircraft are delivered. However the only point of an LBA-LON service is a feed to long haul operations. So I cannot see the LBA flights being moved from LHR to LGW.

In terms of the phrase "usable in terms of long haul" I do not see a problem for BA using any BD LHR slot pair for long haul flights. The BA "pack" of slots is large and spread right across the day. So "shuffling" that pack - moving a number of slots back or forwards by five, ten or fifteen minutes - can effectively turn a late evening arrival slot into a mid afternoon arrival slot. Indeed it seems to me that because this situation is unique to BA they were the only possible buyer of BD.

Here it is worth remembering that the only consideration in implementing a new service is not just the availability of an appropriate departure and arrival slot. Terminal capacity and stand availability are also factors. They can be more important than departure and arrival slots. This is particularly true, for example, if you are thinking of replacing a BD E145 rotation with a BA A380 rotation.


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3507 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 33):

Wow....you're amazing...LOL.

Thanks.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 33):
For example there have been noises north of the border about the reduction in flights to ABZ and EDI even though BA are adding two flights to each destination. These noises are despite the fact that:

The BD ABZ flights are primarily operated by 50 seat E145s and BA has nothing smaller than a 132 seat A319
That BA CityFlyer has announced a new LCY-ABZ service
That the probability of the 252 seat 763 operating to EDI (instead of a 144 seat BD 319) is high

Isn't that just 'default moaning' without actually studying what's happening ?



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7619 posts, RR: 17
Reply 35, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3394 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 34):
that just 'default moaning' without actually studying what's happening ?

Should we really expect our media to look at facts rather than listen to and repeat rhetoric. The Herald newspaper starts a recent article:

"AIR passengers could see fares forced up after British Airways dumped two-thirds of the daily flights operated between Heathrow and Scotland by BMI after its takeover, it has been claimed."

Claimed by who? Independent and knowledgeable individuals or those with a vested interest.

And is The Herald right?

Well, yes. It is. I heard Richard Branson and VS say little else for months on end. And more recently certain politicians who have a vested interest in making anything south of the border look as if it is doing down Scotland and the Scots have been telling the same story. And it makes a much better story than the facts like looking at what happened when BD quit the LHR-GLA route.

The Herald almost confirms who is making the claim when it says:

"Business leaders and politicians warned the cuts would make it harder for passengers to find a ticket and would add to pressure on fares."

So it might be more than "default moaning" It could be both "political" and "Political" (if you see what I mean).

But give The Herald credit. It almost comes clean in the very last line of its article when it says:

"However, Virgin Atlantic, which lost out in its bid to buy BMI, accused its rival of trying to hide cuts to its services."

One might have hoped that VS would have come charging to rescue the Scots from the evil British Airways by confirming they would be competing vigorously for the slots that BA are being forced to give up to allow competition on the ABZ and EDI routes. But apparently they did not. And anyway even mentioning those slots would not really be compatible with the newspapper's story. It would have revealed the exaggerastiuon in the words "dumped two thirds" in the article's opening sentence.

The full The Herald article has been linked before, but here it is again:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/t...ots-heathrow-flights-axed.17997832

Of course some of the article is certainly "default moaning" - I do like that phrase!

If BA had kept all the BD flights the story would be about the impact on the environment of operating BA1432 out of LHR at 0645am followed by BD050 flight (which becomes BA8038 on next Wednesday, 4 July) at 0655am as well as the other flights on the Scottish routes that currently operate within minutes of each other. "Why do they not roll them together and use a larger aircraft and save the world?" they could have moaned.


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