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UA Ending IAH-CDG  
User currently offlinejetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 402 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 21200 times:

Starting October 15th, UA (sCAL) will no longer operate IAH-CDG.

183 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecat3dual From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 21225 times:

Meaning the flight returns to PMUA metal, or the sector is gone entirely?

User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 685 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 21217 times:
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WHAT?!! This is a surprise to me, truly. Does anyone know why the flight will end? What will happen to the spare aircraft? Maybe they could operate it with the 787 once it arrives.


avi8
User currently offlineDLD9S From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 20983 times:

Well that is a nice little gift for AF.


717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3546 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 20975 times:

It's because of Love Field! I mean Hobby Airport! Or...

See we told you!  


User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1442 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 20874 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
It's because of Love Field! I mean Hobby Airport! Or...

Didn't you hear? WN is starting HOU-CCS next week so UA has no need for IAH-CDG...  



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineSRT75 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 20717 times:

Could this be seasonal?

Doesn't Total have its U.S. headquarters in Houston?

Quoting peanuts (Reply 5):
Didn't you hear? WN is starting HOU-CCS next week

You mean HOU-PHX-LAS-MEX-PTY-CCS? But, you get a glass of soda and a snack box on most sectors!


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16885 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 20701 times:

Quoting avi8 (Reply 2):
What will happen to the spare aircraft?

I don't know exactly, but EWR-CDG is going from 2x daily 757 to 2x daily 1 764, 1 757.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 20596 times:

I could see this being related to 762 retirement and I could see the 763 sUA going on it. I'd be shocked if they cancelled this route completely. I wouldn't put it past them though.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20548 times:

UA's thank you gift for AF dropping EWR-CDG?  

On a more serious note, there probably is more traffic originating in IAH and going beyond CDG than there is originating in CDG and going beyond IAH. There are many connections available through CDG to Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, and India. I would imagine that the AF flight is especially popular with any oil traffic going to North Africa.

The O&D probably goes to both airlines right now, but perhaps AF is favored for better service.



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2670 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20491 times:

Simple, UA is in Star, that's why IAH-FRA was started. CDG was flown when CO was ins SkyTeam. UA can funnel CDG traffic through IAD and EWR. Who knows, maybe it will go seasonal.

User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20393 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 10):
CDG was flown when CO was ins SkyTeam. UA can funnel CDG traffic through IAD and EWR. Who knows, maybe it will go seasonal.

CO flew IAH-CDG yeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaars before any of this alliance business started. I know AF goes seasonal in the Jan/Feb timeframe from 6x weekly to daily. AF currently uses a 77W on the route.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20350 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):

I don't know exactly, but EWR-CDG is going from 2x daily 757 to 2x daily 1 764, 1 757.

Another victim of the merger - now that UA/CO has 2.5 European hubs (EWR, IAD, and 0.5 in the form of ORD), the business case for non-star-hub European routes out of IAH without multiple corporate contracts is weakening by the day =(


User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20303 times:

Incredible. CDG has been a fixture for years out of IAH, guess this Slimezek run airline is truly seeking to eliminate Houston from their route structure piece by piece. What will leave the schedule next from IAH, NRT, SFO, and EWR?   

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 6):
You mean HOU-PHX-LAS-MEX-PTY-CCS?

You left out MAF and ELP from the HOU-PHX leg!



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20292 times:

Eh, this isn't all that surprising. Wonder if IAH-AMS will be toast next?


"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20274 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 14):
Eh, this isn't all that surprising. Wonder if IAH-AMS will be toast next?

No. UA has corporate contracts on that route and currently operates 764. The rumor has it that this route will be going 787 early on. CDG has been a very weak performer for UA from IAH since they left Skyteam.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2436 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20245 times:

Smisek's favorite saying is that he has no "sacred cows". If a given route isn't performing well, it goes. Plain and simple.

CDG has more than ample service from EWR/ORD/IAD for a SkyTeam hub. Perhaps we will finally see IAH-MUC or ZRH next summer?


User currently offlinetraindoc From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20156 times:

Hope that this is being done for rational, not punitive reasons! It is hard for me to believe that their is NO market for IAH-CDG on UA! On the other hand, with the degradation in customer service on the "new" UA, nothing would surprise me. As a longtime CO flyer (1K now) it pains me to see the slide downhill. As consistent as the poor service has been this year, I am starting to believe that this is what management wants.

User currently offlinecat3dual From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20058 times:

Quoting cat3dual (Reply 1):

Meaning the flight returns to PMUA metal, or the sector is gone entirely?

Just realized my mistake; misread it as IAD. Hadn't had my coffee yet before I replied.


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20030 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 16):
CDG has more than ample service from EWR/ORD/IAD for a SkyTeam hub. Perhaps we will finally see IAH-MUC or ZRH next summer?

Anywhere from IAH to Europe is a very long flight and costly to fly. UA is likely maximizing opportunities via the other hubs in order to not operate such expensive sectors. Remember, CO only had two prime international hubs. Now with United they can split the hub flights to Europe between IAH, IAD, EWR, ORD, SFO, LAX.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 15):

I'd be concerned since AMS is a major sky team hub.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20037 times:

This just chaps my A**. There is no way UA can't make a daily flight to Paris work from Houston. That is like saying you can't get a monkey to eat a banana.

If UA can't make a daily Houston-Paris flight work, they have some serious issues on their hands. If they are doing it in retaliation to WN over at HOU, then I will renounce my flying on them.



Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20027 times:

CDG is a weak performer for a lot of people who arnt in the Skyteam alliance.

User currently onlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3990 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 19998 times:
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Quoting drerx7 (Reply 15):

  

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 20):

why is that? Its a different ball game than AF. UA is not generating the traffic beyond CDG, it is relying solely on terminating passengers, and those pax may or may not be transiting through ORD/IAD/EWR rather than flying to IAH.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 19973 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 20):

This just chaps my A**. There is no way UA can't make a daily flight to Paris work from Houston. That is like saying you can't get a monkey to eat a banana.

It's really not as bad as you would think. Europe's ecnonomy is in the s***er and weak performers get dropped. UA even dropped EWR-CPH and made EWR-FCO, IAD-DME only seasonal -- First time they have ever done this.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 19978 times:
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Quoting DLD9S (Reply 3):
Well that is a nice little gift for AF.

Oh well. I'm a UA 1-K, and even I fly AF IAD-CDG.

I just hope AF fares don't go crazy.


User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1689 posts, RR: 9
Reply 25, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20732 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 19):
I'd be concerned since AMS is a major sky team hub.

I think there's too much oil business on IAH-AMS for it to be in danger.


User currently offlinecat3dual From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20859 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 20):
There is no way UA can't make a daily flight to Paris work from Houston.

Actually, there is a way: exiting Skyteam, Brent crude hovering around $100 a barrel, and no connecting traffic at the termination point means United will (and rightly so) cut its losses and deploy the aircraft elsewhere; or send them to desert in the 767-200ER's case.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 21190 times:
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Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 24):
Oh well. I'm a UA 1-K, and even I fly AF IAD-CDG.

I just hope AF fares don't go crazy.

Ooops My bad. I misread the header.

That's what I get for being out all night.   


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 28, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 21198 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 20):
This just chaps my A**. There is no way UA can't make a daily flight to Paris work from Houston. That is like saying you can't get a monkey to eat a banana.

In other monkey-banana related news, AA doesn't fly either JFK-AMS or JFK-FRA.


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 29, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 21135 times:

Quoting cat3dual (Reply 26):

Or, use that a/c to expand to a georaphical region that makes more sense from Houston: SOUTH AMERICA!



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinetsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 629 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 21146 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):

I don't know exactly, but EWR-CDG is going from 2x daily 757 to 2x daily 1 764, 1 757

EWR was downgraded to a 757 for the last couple of months, and is supposed to go back to a 764 in Jan...EWR was always a wide body on at least 1 segment until this year...its about time they got it back.


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21123 times:

PAR has been a Continental destination a very long time. Seeing it go completely because UA is sad and upsetting.
UA is saying that IAH-CDG can't even support seasonal 4 per week service any-more?

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 16):
Perhaps we will finally see IAH-MUC or ZRH next summer?

IAH-OSL would be interesting for Houston and Norway oil sector, same as an IAH-GLA or EDI (depending which city has more oil-related business) .



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently onlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3990 posts, RR: 7
Reply 32, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21048 times:
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Quoting tsnamm (Reply 30):

well, we spent a number of days with 764 a/c out of service durnig the refurb of the interior. And since the EWR-CDG route is doable on a 757, it was an easy pair to downgrade.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlinecat3dual From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20975 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 31):

Oil is $100 a barrel. Surely you've been paying attention to that? Houston - Oslo? I mean really?


User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20924 times:

CLE-CDG was full and they took that away!.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlinecat3dual From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20917 times:

Quoting cle757 (Reply 34):
CLE-CDG was full and they took that away!

Full of discount fares. Full does not equal profit. Unless you're a state-run airline, which CO nor UA are.


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 36, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20886 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 31):

Absolutely not. A 757 wouldn't make it -- it can barely do EWR-OSL



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 37, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20697 times:

Well, on one hand I feel somewhat vendicated. I mentioned a few months ago on a seperate thread that IAH-CDG was the one European route out of IAH on UA/CO that lost money and had for a long time. I had very reliable data on that as well.

On the other hand, Im sad to see this one go. Its been around for so many years. Perhaps its just seasonal?



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinejamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1016 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20582 times:

I am curious where the op got their source. I have not seen an official announcement posted either internally or externally re: IAH-CDG.


United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 39, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20574 times:

Quoting jamake1 (Reply 38):
I am curious where the op got their source. I have not seen an official announcement posted either internally or externally re: IAH-CDG.

The flight is zeroed out in GDS. Its gone.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently onlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3990 posts, RR: 7
Reply 40, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20484 times:
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and its actually zeroed out on the 9th


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2214 posts, RR: 15
Reply 41, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20259 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 37):

Well, on one hand I feel somewhat vendicated. I mentioned a few months ago on a seperate thread that IAH-CDG was the one European route out of IAH on UA/CO that lost money and had for a long time. I had very reliable data on that as well.

I do remember you saying this and it came to mind when I read this news. Still somewhat of a shock, you'd think that they'd at least reduce it to less-than daily or make it seasonal.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 31):
IAH-OSL would be interesting for Houston and Norway oil sector, same as an IAH-GLA or EDI (depending which city has more oil-related business) .

I thought that UA 38/39 actually had originated in IAH as a direct flight between IAH and OSL. Or maybe I'm hearing things - I looked this up and it wasn't the case.

Also, just FYI - oil related business doesn't necessarily drive traffic onto nonstop flights. Many people in the industry fly on private aircraft or corporate jets - not just commercial airlines.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4076 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20220 times:
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Quoting avi8 (Reply 2):
What will happen to the spare aircraft?

I've heard rumors that the aircraft will either be moved to ORD to upgauge ORD-BRU or that UA will open IAH-BRU. I would take both with a grain of salt, however.

The rumors about IAH-BRU have been going around for months, if not year, and BRU definitively isn't an oil platform on the same level as CDG or AMS (just a few connections to second-tier African oil producers). BRU does well as a secondary European Star hub for UA on the other hand.

I am somewhat skeptical of the ORD-BRU theory as well. UA does very well upfront to BRU. Substituting a 764 for a 763 adds 9 seats in Business, but loses First entirely, and First to BRU is a moneymaker on the three current flights.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 19):
I'd be concerned since AMS is a major sky team hub.

Corporate contracts. As long as UA has these contracts, the flight isn't going anywhere. If the competition (say KLM) gets them, the flight will be canceled in a nanosecond.

[Edited 2012-06-29 07:55:16]


I've got $h*t to do
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 43, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20015 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 42):
I've heard rumors that the aircraft will either be moved to ORD to operate ORD-BRU or that UA will open IAH-BRU. I would take both with a grain of salt, however.

If this had anything to do with opening a new route out of IAH, they would have done it at the same time to minimize bad press. Its much easier for the loyal UA fliers in IAH to swallow a flight being moved from Paris to Brussels than a flight to Paris being canned outright.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 41):
I do remember you saying this and it came to mind when I read this news.

Yeah, I had a couple of UA and IAH loyalists jumping on me for that. Oh well.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 891 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19900 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 20):
If UA can't make a daily Houston-Paris flight work, they have some serious issues on their hands. If they are doing it in retaliation to WN over at HOU, then I will renounce my flying on them.

UA wouldn't cut a route that makes money just to get back at Houston for allowing WN international routes. They are cutting a non-stop to CDG from IAH because they can easily funnel any of their passengers through their other hubs in a more cost effective way. Smisek , like the Spirit CEO has stated, if a route doesn't make money - its gone , pure and simple.

While many might disgree , I am happy to see UA is being actively managed on its route structure to maintain profitability.


User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19873 times:

Quoting cat3dual (Reply 18):
Just realized my mistake; misread it as IAD. Hadn't had my coffee yet before I replied.
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 27):
Ooops My bad. I misread the header.

What is it about IAH and IAD getting mixed up? A DL phone agent I spoke to a few months ago had the same issue. My flight out of IAH was cancelled, and when I called in to re-book, she tried to put me on a flight ex-IAD! Luckily I recognized that the flight number she quoted to me was mainline, and I knew that DL didn't have any mainline flights from IAH to SLC at the time.



Flown: DL,OS,NZ,UN,VV,NW,AA,UA,HP,TZ,AS,AF,KL,SK,WS,AZ,OK; op by OO,MQ,XJ,9E,G7,EV,QX,RP
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 46, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19638 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 42):
The rumors about IAH-BRU have been going around for months, if not year, and BRU definitively isn't an oil platform on the same level as CDG or AMS (just a few connections to second-tier African oil producers). BRU does well as a secondary European Star hub for UA on the other hand.

Definitely doubt IAH-BRU. Too risky when they already fly IAD, EWR, ORD to BRU.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 47, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19006 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 46):
Definitely doubt IAH-BRU. Too risky when they already fly IAD, EWR, ORD to BRU.

That's why the 787 is perfect for UA. Instead of concentrating on a couple 777s out of the East Coast, they could do 787s from EWR+IAD+ORD+IAH. IAH-CDG could re-appear under this strategy, and IAH-BRU may pop up.

Same for the Pacific. PMUA trumped DL by bypassing NRT. The next evolution for UA+CO is to have a full route network that bypasses SFO too. At the very least, complete the missing links to ICN and PEK.


User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 48, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 18830 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 9):
On a more serious note, there probably is more traffic originating in IAH and going beyond CDG than there is originating in CDG and going beyond IAH.

That's exactly right. Air France is big with the oil companies (like ExxonMobil, Chevron) to send workers to/from Africa/Russia via CDG. A lot of oil employees have huge AF frequent flyer accounts.

Either AF will add more flights daily, increase the gauge of the aircraft or another carrier will step in. Maybe AA?


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 49, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 18751 times:

Hey.....

Maybe, since there's a spare bird now here, UA can get another $22M in rent breaks, paydowns, debt-forgiveness, whatever, from DEN, and then DEN can get its own UA DEN-CDG route?

Just thinking out loud here, eh?  


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 50, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 18706 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 48):
Maybe AA?

AA on IAH-CDG? Will never happen.

Perhaps the lesson on this is that two flights on IAH-CDG may be too much. A daily 77W from AF will probably cover the market just fine.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineizbtmnhd From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 276 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 18642 times:

Quoting cat3dual (Reply 35):
Full of discount fares. Full does not equal profit. Unless you're a state-run airline, which CO nor UA are

Source?


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2073 posts, RR: 3
Reply 52, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 18400 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 11):
Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 10): CDG was flown when CO was ins SkyTeam. UA can funnel CDG traffic through IAD and EWR. Who knows, maybe it will go seasonal.
CO flew IAH-CDG yeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaars before any of this alliance business started. I know AF goes seasonal in the Jan/Feb timeframe from 6x weekly to daily. AF currently uses a 77W on the route.

Very true! I worked at Denver Stapleton 20 years ago and remember this flight beginning in the very early 90's. This flight was around long before CO really exploded in European expansion. It may have even predated EWR-FRA. But just because a flight has been around for a number of years does not mean much. People were shocked when CO dropped HNL to AKL, SYD, Brisbane, and Melbourne; those routes had been around for years and years also.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 28):
Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 20):This just chaps my A**. There is no way UA can't make a daily flight to Paris work from Houston. That is like saying you can't get a monkey to eat a banana.In other monkey-banana related news, AA doesn't fly either JFK-AMS or JFK-FRA.

Good call on this one. It goes to show that routes that look good on paper do not work in real life sometimes. Just like many asssume UA/CO would start IAD or ORD to TLV and it never seems to materialize either. There are many factors to be considered.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 37):
Well, on one hand I feel somewhat vendicated. I mentioned a few months ago on a seperate thread that IAH-CDG was the one European route out of IAH on UA/CO that lost money and had for a long time. I had very reliable data on that as well.

Yes, and I recall this.

I think this change is due to several factors. The addition of other European gateways with the merger, and of course rationalizing long haul routes in the merged airline.

Everyone knows that some of the European economies are in tatters. Just like some people here were shocked at the all out pulldown of transatlantic routes to Athens.

And the fact that EWR-CDG has been all 757's is not a great sign for the market. It seems harder to justify a larger aircraft on a longer flight to a likely smaller market.

Airlines cannot maintain routes (and hubs for that matter) just as a keepsake momento of the olden days.. Times change. Just like LOT dropping EWR, as well as AF for that matter.

With mergers come changes. That's why we have them.

[Edited 2012-06-29 09:08:50]

[Edited 2012-06-29 09:09:44]

[Edited 2012-06-29 09:10:43]

User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 53, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 18310 times:

It's a pity UA decides to stop IAH-CDG. For the French passengers, IAH is an excellent gateway to Central and South America. A great and much more convenient, and better alternative, than MIA and AA or ATL and DL.

I used a lot CO from CDG to GUA, SJO and PTY via IAH. And CO service has always been excellent and innovative (i.e. BusinessFirst).

I remember even their DC10 at ORY and sometimes their B747...!

CO has always had an excellent reputation in Paris, and was advertising a lot here.


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 54, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 17991 times:
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Quoting drerx7 (Reply 8):
I could see this being related to 762 retirement and I could see the 763 sUA going on it. I'd be shocked if they cancelled this route completely. I wouldn't put it past them though.

It has nothing to do with the 762ER retirement. Period. End of story. This has to do with UA not being a part of Sky Team which makes AF a much lower yielding market now that they don't have a connecting partner at CDG.

Quoting FSDan (Reply 9):
A's thank you gift for AF dropping EWR-CDG?

On a more serious note, there probably is more traffic originating in IAH and going beyond CDG than there is originating in CDG and going beyond IAH. There are many connections available through CDG to Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, and India. I would imagine that the AF flight is especially popular with any oil traffic going to North Africa.

The O&D probably goes to both airlines right now, but perhaps AF is favored for better service.

  

SFO LAX DE
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 14):
Eh, this isn't all that surprising. Wonder if IAH-AMS will be toast next?
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 19):
nywhere from IAH to Europe is a very long flight and costly to fly. UA is likely maximizing opportunities via the other hubs in order to not operate such expensive sectors. Remember, CO only had two prime international hubs. Now with United they can split the hub flights to Europe between IAH, IAD, EWR, ORD, SFO, LAX.

I wouldn't be surprised to see AMS get cancelled next. It's another Sky Team Hub, being a KL fortress. Why would UA hand KL lots of business? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever and that would make bed buddy, LH very unhappy.

LAX will stay with their token LHR service as well as SYD, and NRT. I don't think we'll see anything further for UA flying longhaul international from LAX. If there will be any international additions, I feel we'll see it from SFO.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 47):
That's why the 787 is perfect for UA. Instead of concentrating on a couple 777s out of the East Coast, they could do 787s from EWR+IAD+ORD+IAH. IAH-CDG could re-appear under this strategy, and IAH-BRU may pop up.


I'm surpised you guys and gals are so shocked UA swung the ax on IAH-CDG! Things are tough right now and each alliance is relying much more heavily on their partners to do more flying. I wasn't surprised to see AF drop EWR-CDG even after flying it for so many years. It just makes sense because of the realities of today. Since CO left Sky Team, I have a feeling AF was looking for the right time to pull the plug on the flight and just concentrate on JFK with DL.

If anything I think we'll see IAH-MUC (is there a plan for it already?) and after MUC, I feel there maybe a remote chance of IAH-ZRH, but think MUC will come before ZRH.

[Edited 2012-06-29 09:26:47]

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 55, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 17963 times:

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 53):
It's a pity UA decides to stop IAH-CDG. For the French passengers, IAH is an excellent gateway to Central and South America. A great and much more convenient, and better alternative, than MIA and AA or ATL and DL.

Yes, but with both CDG and ATL probably the biggest of ST hubs, more than likely those French pax are going to be using ATL when going to Central and South America.


 


User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 17865 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 48):
That's exactly right. Air France is big with the oil companies (like ExxonMobil, Chevron) to send workers to/from Africa/Russia via CDG. A lot of oil employees have huge AF frequent flyer accounts.

I am not thrilled with the move, I flew it fairly often but with AF still on the route I am just happy to have a non-stop option between CDG and IAH

AF has the petroleum club and what not for such high end oil fflyers.



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 57, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 17673 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 47):
That's why the 787 is perfect for UA. Instead of concentrating on a couple 777s out of the East Coast, they could do 787s from EWR+IAD+ORD+IAH. IAH-CDG could re-appear under this strategy, and IAH-BRU may pop up.

The 787 is perfect for UA to expand logically from their hubs and filtering the connecting traffic through the hubs to international destinations. You won't be seeing IAH-CDG reappearing just because a 787 is flying it. You might see ORD/IAD/EWR-CDG become 787 though.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 54):
I wouldn't be surprised to see AMS get cancelled next. It's another Sky Team Hub, being a KL fortress. Why would UA hand KL lots of business? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever and that would make bed buddy, LH very unhappy.

Depends on the corporate contract(s) they have. Does anybody know what the contract is? Is it like AA's RDU-LHR where a few companies are basically paying AA for the service?

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 53):
CO has always had an excellent reputation in Paris, and was advertising a lot here.

That's great but CO doesn't exist anymore -- it's United.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 58, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 17776 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 54):
I wouldn't be surprised to see AMS get cancelled next. It's another Sky Team Hub, being a KL fortress. Why would UA hand KL lots of business? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever and that would make bed buddy, LH very unhappy.

IAH-AMS and IAH-CDG are totally different animals.

IAH-AMS is one the highest yielding trans-Atlantic city pairs in existence. Its also at well over 100 PDEW and loaded with corporate contracts.

IAH-CDG isnt any of those things. What contracts there are probably go to AF anyway.

IAH-AMS isnt going anywhere. The same reliable source I had that said IAH-CDG was bleeding cash also confirmed IAH-AMS does extremely well.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 59, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 17379 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 54):
I'm surpised you guys and gals are so shocked UA swung the ax on IAH-CDG! Things are tough right now and each alliance is relying much more heavily on their partners to do more flying. I wasn't surprised to see AF drop EWR-CDG even after flying it for so many years. It just makes sense because of the realities of today. Since CO left Sky Team, I have a feeling AF was looking for the right time to pull the plug on the flight and just concentrate on JFK with DL.

If anything I think we'll see IAH-MUC (is there a plan for it already?) and after MUC, I feel there maybe a remote chance of IAH-ZRH, but think MUC will come before ZRH.

Not shocked, just saddened. Sad reality is that IAH is 4th in line as a US-EU connection point in the new UA/CO, so it's bound to be first to cut and last to add.


User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 60, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 17047 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 58):
That's great but CO doesn't exist anymore -- it's United.

I know CO doesn't exist anymore and it's UA now! I was just remembering the past when CO was still flying DC10 to ORY and the excellent reputation CO had.

On the AF side to IAH the C Class is always full. Most of the contracts of the French oil companies (Total, Technip, Schlumberger etc.) are with AF. Plus the connections AF offers for Texan firms to Africa: LAD, PHC, NDJ, LBV, PNR, SSG.


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 61, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 17006 times:

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 60):

Not to go too off topic here but wasn't CO severly scrutinized by the French government for their uninentional role in the AF Concorde crash in 2000?



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinechicawgo From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16964 times:

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 53):
A great and much more convenient, and better alternative, than MIA and AA or ATL and DL.

Ummm.... why?? What is your reasoning for this??


User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16980 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 57):

Depends on the corporate contract(s) they have. Does anybody know what the contract is?

According to some reports they UA has the Shell contract, which is why KL axed the all business class flight (which was reportedly used heavily by Shell people).


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16885 posts, RR: 51
Reply 64, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16949 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 54):
I wasn't surprised to see AF drop EWR-CDG even after flying it for so many years.

Air France has been flying to EWR from Paris longer than CO/UA had been flying IAH-Paris, part of the reasons that both routes are being cut (EWR-CDG AF, IAH-CDG CO) is the fact that CO is not part of Skyteam anymore.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 52):
This flight was around long before CO really exploded in European expansion. It may have even predated EWR-FRA

IIRC:

I984/1985?

IAH-LGW

1986 (PeoplExpress merger)

EWR-LGW, EWR-ORY (switched from BRU), MIA-LGW (transfered from EA, sold to AA in 1990)

1987:

DEN-LGW

1991:

EWR-FRA, EWR-MAD

1992:

IAH-ORY

1993:

EWR-MUC (later dropped, then brought back)
EWR-FCO

1995:

EWR-MAN

1996:

EWR-LIS

Those are the routes I can remember off hand.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2073 posts, RR: 3
Reply 65, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16684 times:

STT757, I think you are right on the timeline.

IAH-CDG must be doing stinking bad for its cancellation. I doubt AMS-IAH performs this poorly, we don't hear so much about the Dutch economy like we do the French one at least. It is hard make generalizations about what route will get the axe next. I have known several people over the years that have taken IAH-CDG.

The route can always make a return some day I suppose.


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8310 posts, RR: 23
Reply 66, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16642 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 16):
Smisek's favorite saying is that he has no "sacred cows"

The only thing Smisek holds sacred is his personal bank account.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 752 posts, RR: 1
Reply 67, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 16498 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 66):
The only thing Smisek holds sacred is his personal bank account.

Don't we all?  

I think this debate can be put to rest by a simple statistic: how much of IAH-CDG was O&D? If majority was connecting, then it certainly makes sense to channel them through ORD, IAD or EWR. And now that CO is not part of Skyteam anymore, the onward connectivity is lost as well. This appears to be simple business (and I am no business expert, by any means).

Only STRONG O&D can bring back this route ... my   


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 16524 times:

CDG is owned by SkyTeam and UA has better connection opportunities to CDG through ORD, EWR and IAD. UA dropped LAX and SFO to CDG in the past. Not enough oil interest in Paris I guess.

User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 69, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 16448 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 66):
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 16):
Smisek's favorite saying is that he has no "sacred cows"

The only thing Smisek holds sacred is his personal bank account.

He's not the greatest or most lovable CEO, but I'd hate it if a CEO drives the company into bankruptcy again for the sake of "sacred cows" and "flagship pride"


User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 418 posts, RR: 3
Reply 70, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 16379 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 41):
Also, just FYI - oil related business doesn't necessarily drive traffic onto nonstop flights. Many people in the industry fly on private aircraft or corporate jets - not just commercial airlines.

True - some top execs fly private. But the IAH market is loaded with high yielding oil traffic on city pairs like IAH-ABZ/SVG/DME/LIN etc - plenty of CEOs mid-range execs, and senior engineers fly business and/or full fare economy. I work in corporate travel with the Houston market and its interesting watching these guys go crazy on full W's and J's.

As far as the business traffic on IAH-CDG, I've noticed most of the business O&D on the IAH side perfers AF.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 19):
Anywhere from IAH to Europe is a very long flight and costly to fly.

No - not really - 9 hours or so - standard long haul. IAH-CDG has enough O&D for 1x .... just as DFW-CDG is 1x. It really could only support 2x when there was 2 SKY hubs on either side.

[Edited 2012-06-29 11:24:01]


Next
User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2176 posts, RR: 3
Reply 71, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 16074 times:

It iis all about yield...IAHCDG did not have it as several posters have put up. I expected more as the merger aged and routes are more closely examined on yield.

User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 72, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 15539 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 54):
wouldn't be surprised to see AMS get cancelled next. It's another Sky Team Hub, being a KL fortress.

Of course as is said...UA has several oil contracts and is one of the highest yielding routes ex-IAH.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 69):
He's not the greatest or most lovable CEO, but I'd hate it if a CEO drives the company into bankruptcy again for the sake of "sacred cows" and "flagship pride"

I agree. IAH-CDG was floundering, hell, even LAX can't keep a U.S. based carrier on CDG. CDG is a yields dump...it was being operated by the smallest capable aircraft so it was a matter of time. Most people I know here in Houston would prefer AF to UA anyway on that route.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2073 posts, RR: 3
Reply 73, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 15512 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 72):
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 69):He's not the greatest or most lovable CEO, but I'd hate it if a CEO drives the company into bankruptcy again for the sake of "sacred cows" and "flagship pride"
I agree. IAH-CDG was floundering, hell, even LAX can't keep a U.S. based carrier on CDG. CDG is a yields dump...it was being operated by the smallest capable aircraft so it was a matter of time. Most people I know here in Houston would prefer AF to UA anyway on that route.

Well said... Many unexpected changes. No more CPH, ACC; and EWR-FCO, IAD-DME are seasonal. Probably more to come. Airlines are no longer keeping routes as momentos from days gone by.


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 74, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 15417 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 72):
CDG is a yields dump

Thats a bit extreme. More likely, the IAH-CDG market cant support two carriers. AF just happend to win that battle.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently onlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2195 posts, RR: 1
Reply 75, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 15331 times:

Is this just Jeff blowin smoke? Or a computer glitch? Or anything else? I want to se a link.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 54):
It has nothing to do with the 762ER retirement. Period. End of story. This has to do with UA not being a part of Sky Team which makes AF a much lower yielding market now that they don't have a connecting partner at CDG.

UA isn't part of Oneworld, but IAH still manages to have 2x 777 from UA AND 1x 777 from BA...



Go coogs! \n//
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2214 posts, RR: 15
Reply 76, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 14989 times:

Yeah, I somehow doubt that. UA hasn't been too big on sending PMCO birds

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 75):
Is this just Jeff blowin smoke? Or a computer glitch? Or anything else? I want to se a link.

It's no longer in the GDS. There will likely be an official PR tomorrow in the Houston Chronicle or something.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 75):
UA isn't part of Oneworld, but IAH still manages to have 2x 777 from UA AND 1x 777 from BA...

Oy. London and Paris are to COMPLETELY different animals. London is one of the most important financial centres in the world.

Take a different sample market that meets the same conditions: Atlanta (a non OneWorld hub)

ATLLHR is served 18x on DL and 7x on BA. Total ASKs for this week: 41,581,967

ATLCDG is served 14x on AF and 7x on DL. Total ASKs for this week: 41,777,645

Despite ATLCDG being a SkyTeam "hub-to-hub" route, it only outpaces ATLLHR by a mere 195,678 ASKs. That is not very much.

At the end of the day, it is Paris being Paris that led to the chop. AMS is not in the same category and IAHAMS will not be at risk.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 77, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14120 times:

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 75):

Here is your link:

http://airlineroute.net/2012/06/29/ua-iahcdg-oct12cxld/



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 979 posts, RR: 2
Reply 78, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14067 times:

One of the reasons this cancellation surprises me is that Paris has traditionally been a prime destination for many upper middle class tourists, many of whom are from Houston and happen to be elite flyers on UA. If the flight doesn't make money due in today's economic environment, cancel it, but UA may inadvertently be taking away a sense of possibility and excitement from their image by removing a flight that many dream about as they fly to their next business meeting in Greensboro. Granted, Houstonians are likely to have the AF nonstop for years to come, but that direct connection to Paris will no longer be associated with UA, and such a loss may very well diminish the value of flying UA for at least a few of its elites.

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 79, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13854 times:
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Continenal should be able to support Houston to CDG with almost daily flights, this the type of route a 767-300ER cries for. The reason its getting killed probably has more to do with lack of international range planes, this one can NOT be downsized to a 757 like the east coast gateways and they say things are bigger in Texas, planes too are bigger only 767 or better 777 or 747's need apply.

User currently offlineBralo20 From Belgium, joined May 2008, 626 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13650 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 42):
I've heard rumors that the aircraft will either be moved to ORD to upgauge ORD-BRU or that UA will open IAH-BRU. I would take both with a grain of salt, however.

The rumors about IAH-BRU have been going around for months, if not year, and BRU definitively isn't an oil platform on the same level as CDG or AMS (just a few connections to second-tier African oil producers). BRU does well as a secondary European Star hub for UA on the other hand.

I am somewhat skeptical of the ORD-BRU theory as well. UA does very well upfront to BRU. Substituting a 764 for a 763 adds 9 seats in Business, but loses First entirely, and First to BRU is a moneymaker on the three current flights.

On luchtzak.be, a Belgian aviation site someone announced that EWR-BRU would be downgraded from UA772 metal to CO764 metal again (like it was in the old days). However, I don't find it anywhere and flights as far as I can go in 2013 are all loaded with UA772... If true however, EWR will lose F again on this route and then it can be that the CDG plane will be put onto this route and the 772 on another route.

IAH-BRU has been rumoured for years now since CO expressed in the passed that they wanted to open this, however since it's been a rumour for several years I'm not seeing it happen soon (on the other hand anything can happen these days) and it will probably remain a rumour. Just like CO asked and got slots for a second daily EWR rotation for years now and which they never picked up...

Think we'll need to wait and see what the future brings us. I can only hope that UA won't bring the 787 to BRU with their high density layout. 767's and 777's will do the trick just fine (though a 747 would be nice )


User currently onlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2195 posts, RR: 1
Reply 81, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13537 times:

FWIW, I just checked the UA employee res, and its still bookable... at least to February (as far as I felt like looking). But for some reason, skips christmas.

[Edited 2012-06-29 17:51:00]


Go coogs! \n//
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 82, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13396 times:

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 81):
FWIW, I just checked the UA employee res, and its still bookable... at least to February (as far as I felt like looking). But for some reason, skips christmas.

Its gone from united.com.

The route is gone. Time to get over it.   



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7311 posts, RR: 85
Reply 83, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13386 times:
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My brother got screwed on CDG-IAH on his honeymoon. CO gave him like 75,000 miles for making his new wife spend the night at IAH without a hotel after promised return fare. I don't really care about this route. It's long, over served and the IAD based PMUA crewed run this 6 day lack luster trip on IAD-CDG-EWR-CDG-IAD and the service is terrible.

Good riddance.   



I miss the old Anet.
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 84, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13114 times:
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Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 58):
AH-AMS and IAH-CDG are totally different animals.

IAH-AMS is one the highest yielding trans-Atlantic city pairs in existence. Its also at well over 100 PDEW and loaded with corporate contracts.

IAH-CDG isnt any of those things. What contracts there are probably go to AF anyway.

IAH-AMS isnt going anywhere. The same reliable source I had that said IAH-CDG was bleeding cash also confirmed IAH-AMS does extremely well.

Thanks for the information, LAXDude1023. I appreciate it. Is this because of oil? I have a lot of respect for what you say and share.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 64):
Air France has been flying to EWR from Paris longer than CO/UA had been flying IAH-Paris, part of the reasons that both routes are being cut (EWR-CDG AF, IAH-CDG CO) is the fact that CO is not part of Skyteam anymore.

I know this, STT757. That's what I said. Needless to say, I appreciate the time line you wrote. Interesting, man. Thanks.


User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 979 posts, RR: 2
Reply 85, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13118 times:

Quoting fxramper (Reply 83):
My brother got screwed on CDG-IAH on his honeymoon.

'Atta boy. I've heard joining the mile high club on your honeymoon brings good luck...   


User currently offlineiahworldflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 12997 times:

I too am sorry to see this route go. I remember when Terminal D was new going in planespotting and seeing them boarding a CO DC10 to ORY and thinking how I'd like to be on that flight. But I also realize that since dropping out of Skyteam this was not the profitable flight it once was. Also, I have flown this route on both CO and AF metal, and I will gladly give up miles to have the AF catering and service.
Maybe UA will use a 763 to open up IAH-SCL ? This would fit into a plan to make IAH their Latin American hub.
For those who wonder about energy industry revenue on IAH to Europe flights, my understanding is that Royal Dutch Shell and it's suppliers generates much more activity to AMS than Total generates to Paris. Also, BP has major operations here in Houston that generate substantial business over to LHR which can help support the 2x daily flights that both UA and BA run from IAH.


User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1304 posts, RR: 1
Reply 87, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 12794 times:
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Man!! there's a lot of undies in a bunch for the IAH-CDG route that's already flown out of bothe IAD and EWR. IAH can connect their feed to EWR as ORD might to IAD. Heck!! Why Have to eastern Gateways if you're going to Bypass them??
Next you'll say IAH should have all the Pacific flights LAX and SFO have to Asia.. Why would that make sense??


User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12464 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 87):
a lot of undies in a bunch for the IAH-CDG route that's already flown out of bothe IAD and EWR. IAH can connect their feed to EWR as ORD might to IAD. Heck!! Why Have to eastern Gateways if you're going to Bypass them??

I don't read into a lot of people saying that I just hear people, myself included, lamenting its loss in a general sense. However, as LAXdude pointed out it has been a weak route since CO left SkyTeam. Those of us with any knowledge of the industry understand that

Those of us with status on UA (or former CO) appreciate a non-stop flight for various reasons. Sure one can still connect but for my business, and frankly my personal flights, I go non-stop whenever possible (and will pay a premium for it).

I will now fly Air France on the route unless the UA fare connecting is just fantastically lower than AF in biz (Say 40% or more). Others will do the same.



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineshanderawx From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12208 times:
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There are over 80 French companies in Houston, French is heard in public often here, the city has an active Alliance Francaise with a converted home in the Montrose, just tonight the French communiity sponsored an Offenbach opera in the park. This is culturally a mistake and very short-sighted by United. Many Houstonians should seriously be thinkikng of switching to SkyTeam for allegiances, placement of combined HQ in Chicago, UA's service, Hobby controversy, vengeance re AKL and now this development does not speak well for future relations between the UA company and this community.

User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 738 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11879 times:

Off topic, but I think if this was AA ending DFW-CDG, we'd be hearing diatribe about their management...not just a simple "___ isn't part of Skyteam, so CDG doesn't make sense" excuse.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16885 posts, RR: 51
Reply 91, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10670 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 77):
Here is your link:

http://airlineroute.net/2012/06/29/ua-iahcdg-oct12cxld/

They cite 1997 when IAH-CDG launched, is that the year they switched from ORY to CDG? As I posted earlier CO launched IAH-Paris in 1992, to Orly airport.

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 80):
If true however, EWR will lose F again on this route and then it can be that the CDG plane will be put onto this route and the 772 on another route.

I don't think that's where the aircraft is going, as I mentioned earlier EWR-CDG is going from 2x daily 757s to 2 x daily 764, 757.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 92, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10603 times:

If UA was going to give-in to the IAH now Mileage-Plus elites and fly IAH-CDG, even if seasonal, What kind of connections could UA offer an IAH flight @ CDG from other Star Alliance airlines?


I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3683 posts, RR: 6
Reply 93, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10465 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 92):
What kind of connections could SA)">UA offer an IAH flight @ CDG from other Star Alliance airlines?

Since all of Star is at T1, SA)">CO/UA has promoted codeshare flights onto other Star carriers via CDG. I've noticed a couple of codeshares operated by SK, LH, ET, MS, OU, and SA.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 94, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10451 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 92):
If UA was going to give-in to the IAH now Mileage-Plus elites and fly IAH-CDG, even if seasonal, What kind of connections could UA offer an IAH flight @ CDG from other Star Alliance airlines

Looking at the *A route map, I would think that there could be some connects at CDG, but it doesn't offer a whole lot of routes. With that said, I don't think that CDG offers *A anything that couldn't be done far better at numerous other hubs.


 


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 95, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10356 times:

Thinking out of the box, If UA could get 5th liberty between CDG and GYD (Baku Azerbaijan), then GYD traffic might cover the CDG stop . GYD flight could connect with other UA flighs to/from EWR/IAD/ORD at CDG.
GYD is a oil-business hotspot and doesn't have a direct flight to IAH, but will get an easy connection via IST when TK starts IAH.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2731 posts, RR: 2
Reply 96, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10127 times:

A lot of interesting changes in the past year between North America and CDG, in no particular order...corrections please.

AF ends ORD
DL starts ORD (seasonal?)
AF upgauges IAD to A380
UA downgauges IAD to 2 757s
AF ends EWR
UA ends IAH
AF ends SEA
UA starts CLE with A380  


User currently offlinetimberwolf24 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 575 posts, RR: 1
Reply 97, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10099 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 96):

AF ends ORD
DL starts ORD (seasonal?)

AF did not end service to ORD, last winter and this winter ORD-CDG is operated on DL metal. This summer UA upgraded ORD-CDG from a 763 to a 772.



Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3160 posts, RR: 7
Reply 98, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9985 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 85):
Quoting fxramper (Reply 83):
My brother got screwed on CDG-IAH on his honeymoon.

'Atta boy. I've heard joining the mile high club on your honeymoon brings good luck...

Yeah, just where I'd want to bring "good luck" on my honeymoon, in a stinky tiny airplane lavatory.

Quoting United787 (Reply 96):
AF ends SEA

AF didn't end CDG-SEA. They and their joint-venture partner decided to continue to serve the route with a DL 767-300. By all accounts the route does fairly well, as does SLC-CDG.


User currently offlineSchweigend From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 628 posts, RR: 2
Reply 99, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9552 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 96):
A lot of interesting changes in the past year between North America and CDG, in no particular order...corrections please.

AF ends ORD
DL starts ORD (seasonal?)
AF upgauges IAD to A380
UA downgauges IAD to 2 757s
AF ends EWR
UA ends IAH
AF ends SEA

Well, I was very surprised to find, when I just searched for IAD-CDG flights at united.com, that one of the two daily 757s has become a three-class 763! That is valid through November, when I quit searching.

They probably have done this as a reaction to AF's A380 service to Dulles and the soon-to-be gone IAH feed to Paris.

One other thing -- when I pulled up UA's timetable it still showed Houston-Paris flights as intermittent through the Winter, but returning to daily on 30 March with a 764, even though the flights' availability for GDSs is zeroed out.

 


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4669 posts, RR: 19
Reply 100, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9484 times:

Another misguided decision by the worst CEO since Frank Lorenzo.


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 101, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9212 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 100):

Another misguided decision by the worst CEO since Frank Lorenzo.

Will I think Smisek is dragging the airline down and he sucks supremely...I actually am not all that disappointed with this move. As others have said, and pains me to say - being a Houstonian and all, most of the O&D here go via AF. If the bulk of this flight was transfer traffic, that can be transferred via the other hubs. IAH-CDG was downguaged to the 762 which certainly didn't help the economics either.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3160 posts, RR: 7
Reply 102, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9127 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 101):
Will I think Smisek is dragging the airline down and he sucks supremely..

I don't know much about him but it did seem like CO went downhill the last several years. His comment about UA not picking the ugly bride (or something like that) about UA merging with them rather than US was way inappropriate, but people do make mistakes and to his credit he apologized to US.

What is it about him that people don't like?


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 103, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8802 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 102):
I don't know much about him but it did seem like CO went downhill the last several years. His comment about UA not picking the ugly bride (or something like that) about UA merging with them rather than US was way inappropriate, but people do make mistakes and to his credit he apologized to US.

What is it about him that people don't like?

Yea, CO was on the downward slope. The issue I have with him is that he has taken the human element out of the business. Eliminating the free meals at mealtime (taste not withstanding), bag fees, and the cavalier attitude he has in regards to public relations and apparently labor relations has really dragged the airline down. CO had an advantage because they owned the flight catering - but they became a me-too airline. I have to say that I no longer feel the warmth that I use to feel when I flew CO...or when I use to fly UA.

On July 19th I'll be going on vacay with the girlfriend.
IAH-EWR on UA
JFK-ATL-SXM on DL on 7/20
SXM-MIA on 7/23 and MIA-JFK on 7/24 on AA and EWR-back to IAH on UA. on the 24th.

UA birds are 764/762, DL 757/757, AA 738/763.
So I'll be able to compare airlines side by side.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently onlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2195 posts, RR: 1
Reply 104, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8661 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 103):

When you are on the top for several years in a row, the only way to go is down... it is only natural. I don't like Smisek as much as the next guy but I don't think he is a COMPLETE dumbass. I'm sure he held on to the little things such as free meals and no bag fees as long as he could, after all there is a huge recesion going on. But yes, he can be outlandish at times and he does have a big head. I also noticed CO FA's attitudes going down a little when Kellner was in charge, but it was still better than what it is now, even though all the merger mania is relaxing and everyone is getting used to it.

Have fun on your trip drerx!



Go coogs! \n//
User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 979 posts, RR: 2
Reply 105, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8431 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 96):
AF ends SEA

Just one quick note...DL has picked up SEA-CDG as an "equipment change", not a route cancellation.


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 106, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8228 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 103):
Eliminating the free meals at mealtime (taste not withstanding), bag fees, and the cavalier attitude he has in regards to public relations and apparently labor relations has really dragged the airline down.

IMHO I think the meals were the least of the pre-merger integration worries. CO meals in Y have always been slightly better than dog food on many routes. By the end they were a complete embarassment. Choice menu by United was a better option in my experience.

Smisek's biggest issue is how customer service has become abyssmal especially towards high ranking elites and SHARES. Just a testiment to how CO wasn't doing everything right before the merger.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 107, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8156 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 106):
Choice menu by United was a better option in my experience.

Well...that's debateable. CO's offering was free, UA's choice menu was/is measly and expensive.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 106):
Smisek's biggest issue is how customer service has become abyssmal especially towards high ranking elites and SHARES. Just a testiment to how CO wasn't doing everything right before the merger.

The demise in customer service started slightly with Kellener...Smisek abandoned an resemblance of giving a $h(! about it. You never heard the type of complaints from Elites at CO until after the merger though. I see comments that CO was horrible at handling IRROPS...I really wouldn't know because I'm in Houston, so I never had a threat of getting stuck out anywhere.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 108, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8122 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 107):
I see comments that CO was horrible at handling IRROPS...I really wouldn't know because I'm in Houston, so I never had a threat of getting stuck out anywhere.

Yeah the bad IRROPS was more of an EWR issue. I recall a few times back when I was young in the mid/late 1990s where if the plane never took off, you wouldn't get reaccomodated, you would just go home and hope to get on a plane the next day (on standby.) It might actually be better since the merger as UA was definitely more generous when IRROPS hit their hubs.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 107):
Well...that's debateable. CO's offering was free, UA's choice menu was/is measly and expensive.

Choice Menu at the time was better than the BOB that DL and AA were serving -- and more consistent (again, fast food in the skies, not great no matter how you slice it.)

I think by around 2008 CO had such measily Y class meals that they forgot the roots from their ex-CEO -- "You can make a pizza so cheap that nobody will eat it." Well, they figured out two years later that the pizza was just not worth serving.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 844 posts, RR: 1
Reply 109, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7964 times:
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Quoting cle757 (Reply 34):
CLE-CDG was full and they took that away!.
Quoting cle757 (Reply 34):
Full of discount fares. Full does not equal profit. Unless you're a state-run airline, which CO nor UA are.

CLE-CDG was exceeding expectations from what I understand, but with the move to *A it didn't make sense to continue the route.



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlinejmw99ttu From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 110, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7735 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 78):
One of the reasons this cancellation surprises me is that Paris has traditionally been a prime destination for many upper middle class tourists, many of whom are from Houston and happen to be elite flyers on UA. If the flight doesn't make money due in today's economic environment, cancel it, but UA may inadvertently be taking away a sense of possibility and excitement from their image by removing a flight that many dream about as they fly to their next business meeting in Greensboro. Granted, Houstonians are likely to have the AF nonstop for years to come, but that direct connection to Paris will no longer be associated with UA, and such a loss may very well diminish the value of flying UA for at least a few of its elites.

As a frequent business traveler, I wouldn't choose to make connections in ATL on my way to GSO, or anywhere else for that matter, week after week so I could fly on a non-stop to CDG on AF for that one vacation I might happen to take to Paris someday with my miles. I'm an elite on AA, and have been dreaming of my trip to PRG next Spring and not thinking much about the inevitable stop in LHR or MAD on the way there. I think most frequent business travelers would rather have a financially sound carrier to fly than one specific non-stop route for a vacation some day.


User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7240 times:

Quoting jmw99ttu (Reply 110):
I think most frequent business travelers would rather have a financially sound carrier to fly than one specific non-stop route for a vacation some day

True but as a frequent biz traveller myself I always want, and nearly always choose the non-stop biz flight and pay a premium for it sometimes.

And when I book major "important" (wedding, ticketed events, etc.) leisure travel I will pay a premium for non-stop also.
YMMV.



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 112, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7109 times:

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 111):
True but as a frequent biz traveller myself I always want, and nearly always choose the non-stop biz flight and pay a premium for it sometimes.And when I book major "important" (wedding, ticketed events, etc.) leisure travel I will pay a premium for non-stop also. YMMV.

Right, but what he's saying is that folks aren't going to switch airlines just because a non-stop route to a destination that some consider "exotic" (debatable) was dropped. usdcaguy's post was a bit bizarre IMO but he's entitled to his own opinion but I have to agree with what jmw99ttu is saying.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently onlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6899 times:

This is going to be a mistake for UA...

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2012/07...gy-companies-houston-gets-hot.html


User currently offlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 114, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6849 times:

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 113):

UA can always move back to Houston.



Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16885 posts, RR: 51
Reply 115, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6833 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 108):
Choice Menu at the time was better than the BOB that DL and AA were serving -- and more consistent (again, fast food in the skies, not great no matter how you slice it.)

I guess your too young to remember DL's Sky Deli carts, ugh!..



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 116, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6767 times:

Didn't UA in the early 90's used to operate tag-on flights and feeder flights in CDG?
If one of EWR, IAD, and ORD flights plus the IAH flight were to make a hub bank in CDG with tag-on to airports most likely outside the E.U. which can't currently sustain non-stops to EWR, that could mean an IAH-CDG would get feed and not only depend on Paris O/D. Sort of what UA has now in NRT.
UA should have to be creative on that, specially to get the French to allow 5th freedom traffic to those places UA is interested in flying to but just can't afford to do it non-stop..
Another quite interesting but extreme measure to keep IAH-CDG daily or almost daily would be to re-configure a B757 with half the cabin in Business First and the other half in Economy, that would bring the weigh of the aircraft down making it most likely to fly non-stop between IAH and CDG. The front half cabin of that B757 would probably cover alone the operation costs of the route.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2073 posts, RR: 3
Reply 117, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6656 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 116):
Didn't UA in the early 90's used to operate tag-on flights and feeder flights in CDG?

I think a number of years ago UA had a tag to ATH.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 118, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6232 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 116):
Another quite interesting but extreme measure to keep IAH-CDG daily or almost daily would be to re-configure a B757 with half the cabin in Business First and the other half in Economy, that would bring the weigh of the aircraft down making it most likely to fly non-stop between IAH and CDG. The front half cabin of that B757 would probably cover alone the operation costs of the route.

Not gonna happen. The ROI wouldn't cover the cost to have a subfleet like that.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineairzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1215 posts, RR: 1
Reply 119, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6215 times:

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 113):

This is going to be a mistake for UA...

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2012/07....html

Not likely.

Paris by itself is a pretty lousy business market. There's just not that much high yield demand. Houston might be booming, but that doesn't mean Paris is anymore of a sustainable market if the demand is not there. Plus this is a JV market, so one has to assume that even with the shared risk, the JV didn't think it was a sustainable market.

AF/KL make it work because of flow to the oil patches in Africa and the Mid East. United has shifted their transfers to FRA, so the need to fly direct to Paris is lessened. Plus they are still satisfying demand with a one stop connection over ORD, IAD, or EWR.

If/when traffic demands a reintroduction of service, they'll resume the flight.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16885 posts, RR: 51
Reply 120, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6193 times:

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 113):
This is going to be a mistake for UA...

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2012/07....html

Not really, while they did drop CDG from IAH they also have launched Lagos. It's obvious they know where their corporate clients want to fly. Losing Paris is a pride thing, I'm sure they speculation that the route was low yielding was accurate.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently onlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 121, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6162 times:

My impression is that Smisek at UA and prior to that Continental has done a really lousy job of marketing the Houston hub. Evidence of that is that it is almost impossible to find city-pair connections in either Orbitz or Travelocity that require a change of planes at IAH. I'm pretty sure IAH-CDG was undermarketed, too.

User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 122, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6116 times:

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 121):
Evidence of that is that it is almost impossible to find city-pair connections in either Orbitz or Travelocity that require a change of planes at IAH. I'm pretty sure IAH-CDG was undermarketed, too.

There was no need to market that one route over any other.

Routes that are profitable and great preformers dont need much marketing. They sell themselves. This was not one of those.

IAH-CDG simply cant handle two carriers it appears. Nothing wrong with it, just the way it is.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently onlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6099 times:

I was thinking the marketing of the hub in general left plenty to be desired. As American was heading into bankruptcy, it adopted the "cornerpoints strategy" with a lot of fanfare, with the mission of growing the top five hubs of the carrier at a time when the industry was retrenching. Now, in the midst of the bankruptcy, they appear to be showing sizeable yield gains at a time when UA is still cutting back. UA has done nothing to respond.

Of course it also helps that they appear to be on their way to striking a deal with their employee unions at a time when Smisek is continuing to feud with his.


User currently offlinehohd From United States of America, joined May 2008, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6022 times:

If City of Houston had not given permission for the building permit to Southwest, this would not have happened. Period.

May be IAH-CDG is a marginal market (but still has a decent O&D) but at one time CO had two flights and AF had one flight, what happened now. Also when you take away IAH-CDG route, you lose some of the connecting passengers. There are many markets where IAH is either the sole destination to other cities or where they have good frequency compared to other *A hubs. All this will be lost. Every time you chip away destination, you also some of the connections and gradually lose out.


User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6034 times:

Quoting hohd (Reply 124):
May be IAH-CDG is a marginal market (but still has a decent O&D) but at one time CO had two flights and AF had one flight, what happened now.

AF had two dailies at one point also. CO going to Star from SkyTeam is what happened, thus FRA getting a second daily and CDG getting cut. AMS freqs were reduced also.



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6639 posts, RR: 24
Reply 126, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5980 times:

Quoting hohd (Reply 124):
If City of Houston had not given permission for the building permit to Southwest, this would not have happened.

You can't possibly know this for a fact. It's quite possible the route was a loser all along and UA has finally decided to throw in the towel.


User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3683 posts, RR: 6
Reply 127, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6014 times:

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 125):
thus FRA getting a second daily

Which includes the LH flight getting upgauged to an A380.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 128, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5952 times:

http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...llout-from-battle-over-hobby-77494
no big deal, looks like the IAH-CDG and the other routes that UA is cutting were not doing good.



Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlinesuperjeff From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5900 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting iahworldflyer (Reply 86):
too am sorry to see this route go. I remember when Terminal D was new going in planespotting and seeing them boarding a CO DC10 to ORY and thinking how I'd like to be on that flight. But I also realize that since dropping out of Skyteam this was not the profitable flight it once was. Also, I have flown this route on both CO and AF metal, and I will gladly give up miles to have the AF catering and service. Maybe UA will use a 763 to open up IAH-SCL ? This would fit into a plan to make IAH their Latin American hub.For those who wonder about energy industry revenue on IAH to Europe flights, my understanding is that Royal Dutch Shell and it's suppliers generates much more activity to AMS than Total generates to Paris. Also, BP has major operations here in Houston that generate substantial business over to LHR which can help support the 2x daily flights that both UA and BA run from IAH.

What nobody has said is that AF now has 3-4-3 seating in their 77W economy, and 2-3-2 in Business, so UA's configuration (in economy and business class) is certainly more comfortable, although I agree AF has very nice Y class service.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 130, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5747 times:

Quoting hohd (Reply 124):
If City of Houston had not given permission for the building permit to Southwest, this would not have happened. Period.

C'mon man...not this again. Let's just agree to disagree on this, if you believe that nonsense than fine - knock yourself out.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4002 posts, RR: 26
Reply 131, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5707 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 130):
C'mon man...not this again. Let's just agree to disagree on this, if you believe that nonsense than fine - knock yourself out.

Ditto.

Frankly this thread is getting very monotonous, same comments, views being re-hashed. It's over guys, UA cut a loss making route, big whoop, guess what they will likely cut others come Sept. It's just a part of this business, we need to get over it.

Hell, we still have AF running Paris. TK in April, Lufthy's 'Whale Jet' next month, frankly IAH is looking pretty good, imo.



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 132, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5244 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 115):
I guess your too young to remember DL's Sky Deli carts, ugh!..

I do. It was horrible!! The best part was the breakfast on the morning flights departing before 10. You would get a banana and some other goodies that were pretty good.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 128):
http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...llout-from-battle-over-hobby-77494
no big deal, looks like the IAH-CDG and the other routes that UA is cutting were not doing good.

From the article. A part of their diagram

Quote:
United's threatened market cuts and frequency reductions from IAH if Hobby gains rights to offer international service

All I can say is UA is so full of sh*t



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 133, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5220 times:

Quoting airzim (Reply 119):
Paris by itself is a pretty lousy business market. There's just not that much high yield demand.

There's no way that's true... Paris is one of the largest European business markets and is a major European financial center, along with London and Frankfurt. For a start, just look at the number of Fortune Global 500 companies based there. To name a few: Total, AXA, BNP Paribas, GDF Suez, Credit Agricole, Societe Generale, Peugeot, Renault, Sanofi, Air France-KLM Group, Schneider Electric, L'Oreal, and Alstom. In total, 30 of the Fortune Global 500 companies are based in the Paris metro area. That's got to generate some business demand...



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 588 posts, RR: 1
Reply 134, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5108 times:

Quoting airzim (Reply 119):
Paris by itself is a pretty lousy business market. There's just not that much high yield demand.

Clearly you've never been to La Défense or to Neuilly-sur-Seine.


.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 122):
IAH-CDG simply cant handle two carriers it appears. Nothing wrong with it, just the way it is.

   Not to mention that AF offers First Class on that route.



JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 135, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4961 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 133):
There's no way that's true... Paris is one of the largest European business markets and is a major European financial center, along with London and Frankfurt. For a start, just look at the number of Fortune Global 500 companies based there. To name a few: Total, AXA, BNP Paribas, GDF Suez, Credit Agricole, Societe Generale, Peugeot, Renault, Sanofi, Air France-KLM Group, Schneider Electric, L'Oreal, and Alstom. In total, 30 of the Fortune Global 500 companies are based in the Paris metro area. That's got to generate some business demand...

True - but the bottomless pit of low yield tourist that drag the yields down is greater.

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 134):
Not to mention that AF offers First Class on that route.

Yep, we'll see if AF brings the second flight back with the 330 or upgauge the current flight to 77W year round. I can't see them going larger than that as their 744 and 380s are heavy Y, yes? no?



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinehohd From United States of America, joined May 2008, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4847 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 126):

The flight may be a money loser, but, Mary Clark, UA spokesperson, specifically quoted the Hobby expansion as a reason for cutting this flight.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 137, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4763 times:

Quoting hohd (Reply 136):
The flight may be a money loser, but, Mary Clark, UA spokesperson, specifically quoted the Hobby expansion as a reason for cutting this flight.

That's stupid as hell. Nor does it make any logical sense - and to try and force feed this bull$ down the public's throat - which no one is buying, is a PR blunder. Call a spade a spade "The $*!* was losing money so we pulled the plug, It is what it is H-Town"



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 138, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 137):
That's stupid as hell. Nor does it make any logical sense - and to try and force feed this bull$ down the public's throat - which no one is buying, is a PR blunder. Call a spade a spade "The $*!* was losing money so we pulled the plug, It is what it is H-Town"

Hence my comment

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 132):
All I can say is UA is so full of sh*t

Because of this

http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...llout-from-battle-over-hobby-77494

The route map graph is beyond laughable. This is nothing more than UA balancing the network. Prior to the merger, IAH was all that CO had west of the line. Now, there's DEN for the midwest and SFO/LAX. The WN-HOU BS is just an excuse.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineeagle125 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4728 times:

Quoting hohd (Reply 136):
The flight may be a money loser, but, Mary Clark, UA spokesperson, specifically quoted the Hobby expansion as a reason for cutting this flight.
UA management is beating this dead horse to a pulp...

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 138):
This is nothing more than UA balancing the network. Prior to the merger, IAH was all that CO had west of the line. Now, there's DEN for the midwest and SFO/LAX. The WN-HOU BS is just an excuse.

Absolutely. Hobby expansion or not, this flight would have been gone regardless along with most of the other reductions we're seeing. The fact that WN won the HOU battle provided a scapegoat for UA's right-sizing of IAH post merger.

[Edited 2012-07-11 09:33:46]


AT7, M80, 83, 88, E145, 190, B722, 732, 733, 735, 73G, 752, 772, 77W, A319, 320, 343
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 140, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4566 times:

Quoting hohd (Reply 136):
Quoting drerx7 (Reply 137):
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 138):
Quoting eagle125 (Reply 139):

Seriously, the last thing that I want to do here is be in any way inappropriate, but this thing as it continues is just starting to become seriously comical.

I keep checking in on these threads for the latest with UA's hissy fits, and to get my new bursts of laughter. Seems like UA just can't stop throwing the dishes at IAH, eh? Crash, shatter, crash, shatter, crash, shatter........ continually for the last few weeks, huh?


  

(sorry, can't help it at this point)

 


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2436 posts, RR: 6
Reply 141, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4553 times:

It's political. UA is trying to get Houston voters to associate the sitting Council and Mayor Parker with the pulldown of the IAH hub. You can argue that the average Houstonian is smarter than that and able to see right through the charade, but that's the game of politics. We see dirtier tricks played out on national television every election season. I'm sure UA is only trying to throw their weight around in the hopes of electing new Council and Mayor that are more sympathetic to the incumbent carrier.

User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 142, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4519 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 141):
UA is trying to get Houston voters to associate the sitting Council and Mayor Parker with the pulldown of the IAH hub. You can argue that the average Houstonian is smarter than that and able to see right through the charade, but that's the game of politics.

Yep, as evidenced by chron.com and facebook comments...UA reputation is nosediving here.
@point2point IAH is still more profitable and larger than the DEN hub operation      



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2436 posts, RR: 6
Reply 143, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 142):
Yep, as evidenced by chron.com and facebook comments...UA reputation is nosediving here.

Public opinion ebbs and flows... it will improve. I doubt many in Houston really want to give all their business to that other AAirline and have to connect at DFW every time!


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 144, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4488 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 143):
Public opinion ebbs and flows... it will improve. I doubt many in Houston really want to give all their business to that other AAirline and have to connect at DFW every time!

No, but they'll give it to Southwest though...
I agree though, public opinion will improve - as soon as UA stops digging a hole for themselves with the bad publicity of the Hobby fallout.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2436 posts, RR: 6
Reply 145, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4472 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 144):

No, but they'll give it to Southwest though...

Good luck selling that to the corporate and international customers in Houston.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 146, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4473 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 142):
@point2point IAH is still more profitable and larger than the DEN hub operation

Yes yes yes my friend.

But I'm sort of thinking here, and please feel to correct me, but didn't UA (previously CO) put in a lot $$$$$ into IAH (like a couple billion dollars or so) under the assumption that IAH would be the only FIS airport in the region? If so, then maybe I can see why they are so upset and throwing these temper tantrums about it.

And if so, could UA now be sitting on an investment at IAH that they don't feel is going to pay off - or at least pay off as quickly as they wanted it to?

Just askin'


  


User currently offlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 147, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4473 times:

UA made a positive first step by putting the 787 maintenance base at IAH and basing its pilots there too. And IAH-LOS will be the most likely first 787 international flight out of any US city. Expect UA to make further positive steps.


Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2214 posts, RR: 15
Reply 148, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4448 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 146):
And if so, could UA now be sitting on an investment at IAH that they don't feel is going to pay off - or at least pay off as quickly as they wanted it to?

The real answer to that question is No. But what you just posted is exactly what the UA management wants the public to think.

Hence, the political posturing theory.

IAH is not CLE, MEM, CVG, etc. It is not endangered by WN's opening up of FIS facilities at HOU in ANY capacity. End of story.

I really wish this news/buzz would die, but UA management is sadly going to drag it out every time they announce a minor trim at IAH (or less directly, a boost at a PMUA hub).

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 147):

UA made a positive first step by putting the 787 maintenance base at IAH and basing its pilots there too. And IAH-LOS will be the most likely first 787 international flight out of any US city. Expect UA to make further positive steps.

JAL has been flying the 787 to BOS since April. And UA has announced that Denver-Tokyo will be the first city pair to receive 787 service.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 149, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4441 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 145):
Good luck selling that to the corporate and international customers in Houston.

Touche. In that regard it'll be same situation that has happened at IAH in the past 20 years of international stagnancy when CO expanded in favor of EWR...EK/QR/SQ incumbants and BA/LH/KL/AF making some money.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 147):
UA made a positive first step by putting the 787 maintenance base at IAH and basing its pilots there too. And IAH-LOS will be the most likely first 787 international flight out of any US city. Expect UA to make further positive steps

The infrastructure was placed a year before any of this came up. 787 simulators and training began over a year ago, that decision probably would have not been made had this HOU debacle been known. Hindsight my friend.

Quoting point2point (Reply 146):
but didn't UA (previously CO) put in a lot $$$$$ into IAH (like a couple billion dollars or so) under the assumption that IAH would be the only FIS airport in the region? If so, then maybe I can see why they are so upset and throwing these temper tantrums about it.

True. As a business, UA has every right to be mad as hell. The issue is, do you now piss off your customers with the poor PR media blitz?

Quoting point2point (Reply 146):
And if so, could UA now be sitting on an investment at IAH that they don't feel is going to pay off - or at least pay off as quickly as they wanted it to?

Well...not exactly. The second phase of Terminal B is the one that is designed for mainline and the new FIS. The first phase was sorely needed...ahem Gate B84...this phase 1 is for regional ops only. So I wouldn't go so far as to say that. I think that phase 2 will happen...but probably not in the optomistic timeframe that myself and other Houston spotters originally anticipated. So no money has been invested in facilities that would allegedly be impacted by Southwest Hobby ops. The whole thing is rediculous, as now they have the potential incumbant carrier Spirit setting up shop at IAH with international ops...not that I view them as a serious threat to UA.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 150, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4438 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 148):

DEN-NRT was the first route announced, there are other routes that have not yet been announced.



Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 151, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4417 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 148):
And UA has announced that Denver-Tokyo will be the first city pair to receive 787 service.

It was the first international route announced...don't believe it will be first.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2214 posts, RR: 15
Reply 152, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4447 times:

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 150):
DEN-NRT was the first route announced, there are other routes that have not yet been announced.

Well, my point was that the 787 has already started flying to the US, and there are a few additional ones that will be rolled out soon (SJC/SEA/SAN-NRT come to mind, alongside ORDWAW) but yes, UA will receive their first 787 in September and will have a few more by the end of the year, so it is possible that they may convert one of their existing flights to a 787 before DEN.

However, at present, DENNRT remains the first 787 launch route until further notice.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 153, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4357 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 152):
However, at present, DENNRT remains the first 787 launch route until further notice.

For $22M, I would think that it would (and should) remain the first.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 149):
True. As a business, UA has every right to be mad as hell. The issue is, do you now piss off your customers with the poor PR media blitz?

....................


Well...not exactly. The second phase of Terminal B is the one that is designed for mainline and the new FIS. The first phase was sorely needed...ahem Gate B84...this phase 1 is for regional ops only. So I wouldn't go so far as to say that. I think that phase 2 will happen...but probably not in the optomistic timeframe that myself and other Houston spotters originally anticipated. So no money has been invested in facilities that would allegedly be impacted by Southwest Hobby ops. The whole thing is rediculous, as now they have the potential incumbant carrier Spirit setting up shop at IAH with international ops...not that I view them as a serious threat to UA.

I think that I understand with your explanation, and then reading a couple of other pieces about it.

A couple of things come to mind........

First, it seems that for this billion dollar project, UA would put up about two-thirds of this, with the city putting up one-third which it would get from a airline users fee of $3. This would also extend UA's lease there through 2027 - and that's quite a while.

Second, since the deal was approved around August of 2011, this isn't even really started yet, yes? I don't think that there's any indication that UA is going to be scaling back, or even reneging here, eh?

And third, if UA wanted to have the only FIS airport in the region, they needed to have put in a clause that said it would be so. I wonder if this was something missed in due diligence, or they did put it in and the city said no? I would almost have to think the second scenario...... this is too big of a due diligence to miss, and this would be discussed even before numbers, schedules, square footages, etc.

So as a conclusion, I would assume that UA had to know that someday, without this protection clause, that Hobby could become an FIS airport. WN obviously jumped on this a lot sooner probably than anyone anticipated.

I guess we've seen what UA is doing with scheduling of its planes. What is it going to do with the construction schedule? Any inklings on that yet? Maybe a requested cutback.... or slowdown..... or something?

And with UA, it's probably got lease negotiations coming up with all of its hubs, I guess they gotta show who's boss, at the expense of the potential passenger at this time.

And I believe DEN is up in just a few years, maybe even next in line? If so, I have a feeling that this last $22M that they took from DEN is going to be chump change compared to what UA will be asking for in future negotiations.

Just my thoughts.



 


User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7311 posts, RR: 85
Reply 154, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4295 times:
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I think UA is just punishing the city of Houston for it's willingness to allow WN the right to operate internationals from HOU. I read that UA is bringing back SFO-CDG so they keep the seats filled to Paris after all.


I miss the old Anet.
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 155, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4278 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 153):
Second, since the deal was approved around August of 2011, this isn't even really started yet, yes? I don't think that there's any indication that UA is going to be scaling back, or even reneging here, eh?

Well, construction is moving along at a rapid pace actually. I'll be flying out on UA next week so I'll snap some pics.
Here is a video of the current progress
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB7uF...KxPfexq8I8HQg&index=5&feature=plcp

Quoting point2point (Reply 153):
So as a conclusion, I would assume that UA had to know that someday, without this protection clause, that Hobby could become an FIS airport. WN obviously jumped on this a lot sooner probably than anyone anticipated.

You would think that they would have anticipated this. I agree WN jumped in sooner than we all guessed; however, there was no clause stipulating that IAH was to be the sole FIS, so UA really had no legal recourse in this regard. The funny thing is - at this point, UA should hope that the analyst used by the City of Houston and Southwest are correct...as traffic to Houston should increase for everyone.

Quoting point2point (Reply 153):
I guess we've seen what UA is doing with scheduling of its planes. What is it going to do with the construction schedule? Any inklings on that yet? Maybe a requested cutback.... or slowdown..... or something?

Well, phase II is on hold as was pointed out by other members on here. It wasn't funded yet anyone, but UA has officially placed it on indefinite hold.

Quoting point2point (Reply 153):
And I believe DEN is up in just a few years, maybe even next in line? If so, I have a feeling that this last $22M that they took from DEN is going to be chump change compared to what UA will be asking for in future negotiations.
Beware the Ides of March...
Just my thoughts.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised