Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 2 Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9681 times:
Cabin crew, air marshals and passengers subdued the attackers who attempted to intrude the cockpit in order to hijack the aircraft.
The airline reported 92 passengers and 9 crew were on board when 6 criminals attempted to violently intrude the cockpit. The attackers were subdued in combined efforts of cabin crew and passengers, crew and passengers received minor injuries in the fight. An investigation is under way.
sq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1633 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9383 times:
Kudos to the crew and passengers involved in this incident, but may I ask why there were 9 crew on a E190? Is it just me or is that massive overkill? Presumably there were 2 flight deck crew (maybe even three let's say) - that still leaves 6-7 cabin crew on a regional aircraft...
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 4): Care to elaborate for those of us who have no idea what you're referring too?
Not sure about Hotan, but Urumqi is in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of China in the far northwest of the country. There has been an independence struggle there for many years, and has been much more tumultuous than the struggle Tibet has been fighting as well. Like Tibet, the ethnic Uyghur population of Xinjiang differ quite a bit from the majority Han population. Tensions between Urumqi and Beijing have been rising over the past several years. Lot more to both sides of the story regarding this fight, but that's for the Non-Av forums I suppose.
Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9193 times:
Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 6): may I ask why there were 9 crew on a E190? Is it just me or is that massive overkill? Presumably there were 2 flight deck crew (maybe even three let's say) - that still leaves 6-7 cabin crew on a regional aircraft...
I'm only guessing here, but maybe they are counting the air marshals as "crew". It is clear that there were air marshal(s) on board and they did their job.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8820 times:
Quoting Rara (Reply 3): The flight's origin and destination lend themselves to speculation....
Without any other information, it would seem that like another East Turkestani separatist movement ploy (CZ 6901 being the last aviation related incident). Perhaps relating to the recent developments re: Kadeer Trade Center and the Akida Trade Center? (completely speculation)
[Edited 2012-06-29 09:30:46]
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
garpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2659 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6894 times:
This should send a message to would-be hijackers that the innocent people of this world will no longer tolerate their actions. We will die fighting rather that die cowering in our seats. Well done pax and crew!
goosebayguy From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6663 times:
Passengers all know that if hijacked we could be smashed into buildings and killed anyway. So taking action and defeating hijackers is the only course of action these days. Makes being a hijacker totally pointless because you will lose.
Rara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2089 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5151 times:
Sidenote: The Chinese government will be quite happy with this event. Ever since September 11th, they have tried to frame the Uyghur-Han conflict as part of the international war against Muslim terrorism, rather than an occupied people's struggle for freedom, as which it could also be seen. Events like this hijacking attempt are tremendously helpful in this reframing process, as evidenced by comments in this thread as well:
Quoting TheCol (Reply 13):
This goes to show that society, from sea to sea, will not allow terrorists to intimidate and strike against us with impunity.
And of course, the other side will integrate the event into a wider conspiracy theory:
Quote: The exiled World Uyghur Congress (WUC) disputed the government version of events, claiming that a fight over seating broke out onboard the aircraft between a group of Uighurs and Han Chinese, who vastly outnumbered them.
“The Uighurs of Hotan believe that this story about taking hostages is a lie,” Dilxat Raxit, a spokesman for the organisation told AFP.
Cerecl From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 729 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4714 times:
Quoting Rara (Reply 18): Ever since September 11th, they have tried to frame the Uyghur-Han conflict as part of the international war against Muslim terrorism, rather than an occupied people's struggle for freedom, as which it could also be seen.
I disagree with two aspects of this statement. Firstly, even to this date, the Chinese government is reluctant to acknowledge Uighur-Han conflict, trying not to offend the native Uighur population while placating the Han in Xinjiang, who are somewhat angry over the many concessions the Uighurs receive as a result of being a "minority ethinic group" and the violence inflicted upon them (Han). You certainly do not see the government crying out loud to CNN/BBC etc about Muslim violence unless the conflict was fairly major. Adding to that, there is another ethnic group in China, the Hui people, who also practise Islam. They generally get on well with the Han, and the government is at pains to avoid linking muslims with terrorism, preferring to single out the separatist East Turkestan movement as the perpetrators.
The second point I disagree with is "the occupied people's struggle". The world is littered with ethnic groups who were indigenous to the land that now forms part of countries inhabited by other ethnic groups. Xinjiang has been under Chinese central government rule for some 200 years. If, god forbid, American Indians or Australian Aboriginal people start to hijack commercial airliners with the aim of either flying them into buildings or blowing them up mid-air, or indiscriminately stab, cut or behead people of other ethnicity in public places, I would like see how many would regard this as occupied people's struggle.
Quoting Rara (Reply 18): For an outsider, there's no way of knowing what really happened - but anyway it's more important who's got the better story to tell.
If you believe that a government would deliberately "frame" an altercation over seating arrangement into an attempted hijacking, in a leadership transition year which usually means "stability" trumps many other considerations, then I have a nice beach house in Hotan to sell you.
Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4447 times:
Quoting nethkt (Reply 17): That's the way to deal with it. Kudos!!!
Fight it for yourself, cause no one is going to fight it for you!!!
Sad reality, but we learned the hard way with the events of 9/11, there is no way that the authorities on the ground can deal with people who is already determined to die "for the cause", the Flight 93 is the best example and the hard proof of how real this is and how the people should act, fight for your life !!
spinner145 From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2008, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4264 times:
Quoting Cerecl (Reply 19): If you believe that a government would deliberately "frame" an altercation over seating arrangement into an attempted hijacking, in a leadership transition year which usually means "stability" trumps many other considerations, then I have a nice beach house in Hotan to sell you.
If you believe that the CCP-controlled media wouldn't lie when it suits their purposes, then I have some Chinese-made baby formula to sell you. And it definitely suits their purposes to make 'splittist' Uighurs look like terrorists. Every time there is a clash of any sort between Uighurs and the police or ethnic Hans, it is labeled as a terrorist attack in Chinese media.
It also seems fishy that there just happened to be 20 policemen and two air marshals, plus 9 crew, on an E190. If that's true, these were the dumbest hijackers ever. Not that hijackers in any case are particularly smart, but they must have been exceptionally stupid to not put their attack off until they boarded a flight that didn't look like a military parade.
I'm not saying it wasn't a hijacking attempt (and to be sure I'm glad that if it was, it wasn't a successful), but I don't trust China's state-controlled media enough to feel confident that we're hearing the truth.
Indeed, so I hope I can get away with just two last remarks...
Quoting Cerecl (Reply 19): The second point I disagree with is "the occupied people's struggle".
Note that I didn't take that position. I said that it could be framed as such, and that a major strategy of the Chinese government to "win" the conflict is by reframing it as simple terrorism. Comparison with the Tibet conflict really shows the power of reframing. Objectively the cases are very similar - in both cases we have a ethnic minority, a history of occupation and a strong religious component. Yet the Tibetan cause enjoys huge sympathies in the West and is commonly seen as the just struggle of an occupied ethnicity for freedom.
Quoting Cerecl (Reply 19): If you believe that a government would deliberately "frame" an altercation over seating arrangement into an attempted hijacking
My belief is not so relevant. For the record, I do believe that there actually was a hijacking attempt. But I wouldn't bet my life on it.
Quoting Cerecl (Reply 19): the government is at pains to avoid linking muslims with terrorism, preferring to single out the separatist East Turkestan movement as the perpetrators.
Duly noted. Quite correct.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
bestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7152 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4081 times:
This is an aviation issue so should stay here.
I can't believe any anyone would take sides with the cause of a bunch of hijackers.
The statement by the association that it was an argument over seats is the funniest thing ever. Hainan air offer allocated seating, and to think this would still be simmering after take off on a not 100% full flight is Beyond the realm of stupid