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Fates For ZA001,002 & 003  
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3548 posts, RR: 26
Posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 7173 times:
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One of the premier sources of information, Totally Jacked Up Airplanes, has unsubstantiated information that ZA001 is headed to the Smithsonian, ZA002 to the Tokyo Air museum and ZA003 to Seattle's Museum of Flight.

http://totallyjackedupaircraftphotos...87-update-why-za001-za002-are.html

If it comes to pass, it's an excellent choice.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30978 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7005 times:
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Seems a logical fate for the planes.

The Smithsonian is an appropriate venue as the 787 is a big step in aviation for even if most of her systems have already been in service on other commercial airframes, she did put them together (much like the Boeing 247 did).

And the Museum of Flight needs a 787 because it's a Boeing product and it's a premier museum in it's own right.

And sending ZA002 to Tokyo in launch customer NH's livery is fitting, as well.


User currently offlinewarreng24 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6708 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Museum of Flight needs a 787

They also need a 757 and a 767 to fill in the gap in the family.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30978 posts, RR: 86
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6654 times:
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Quoting warreng24 (Reply 2):
They also need a 757 and a 767 to fill in the gap in the family.

Hopefully they will get both within the next few years.


User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1605 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6364 times:

A bit surprised Boeing doesn't keep one them as test airplane. Or will they use ZA004 (or 005 or 006) for those purposes? They have only 2 Business Jet / VIP Customers for the 787-8.... one of them with GE engines, so I expect ZA005 or 6 to be allocated to that customer.


146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30978 posts, RR: 86
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6351 times:
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Quoting frigatebird (Reply 4):
A bit surprised Boeing doesn't keep one them as test airplane.

ZA003 has already been used to perform some testing of future possible features like laminar flow leading edges.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6213 times:

ZA001 is at the museum of flight, I thought.


次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5891 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
ZA001 is at the museum of flight, I thought.

News to me. ZA003 was at the Museum Of Flight last weekend for a Boeing function...it looks almost identical to ZA001 now that they repainted ZA003 for the Dreamtour.

Tom.


User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3548 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5641 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
ZA001 is at the museum of flight, I thought.


ZA001,002 are sitting in the desert less engines and will remain there (per the link) until late in the year.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5571 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 8):
ZA001,002 are sitting in the desert less engines and will remain there (per the link) until late in the year.

Ah I understand, thanks.

Why was ZA002 painted in NH colors anyway? I'm confused about that. Did NH pay Boeing to do that for their museum?

[Edited 2012-06-29 20:09:27]


次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinekaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2377 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5352 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
Why was ZA002 painted in NH colors anyway? I'm confused about that. Did NH pay Boeing to do that for their museum?

The plane was originally supposed to go to ANA. And ANA also being a launch customer may have had something to do with it. The second or third 777 was painted in United colors during testing.


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5465 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
Why was ZA002 painted in NH colors anyway? I'm confused about that. Did NH pay Boeing to do that for their museum?

By the time Boeing painted the aircraft, it had already been decided to write off the first three frames as R&D. It was a pure marketing exercise for the launch customer.


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3505 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5131 times:

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 10):
The second or third 777 was painted in United colors during testing.

It may have been both--I know for sure the second was. The third may have been in BA colors...I can remember seeing 777 test flights approaching BFI from the east over my house/school as a kid. UA was the first non-Boeing livery I saw, BA the second. I believe CX was the third. The key difference is that I believe all of those frames went to those customers...the first 777 ended up in CX hands as well and was still active until recently (and for all I know, still is).

Kind of surprising that the Smithsonian is interested in a 787 this early and even more surprising that ZA001 is apparently the one they're getting. I would have bet top dollar that it would be the Museum of Flight's specimen.

[Edited 2012-06-30 01:46:05]


Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlinecat3dual From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4951 times:

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 12):
The key difference is that I believe all of those frames went to those customers...the first 777 ended up in CX hands as well and was still active until recently (and for all I know, still is).

In fact it is. B-HNL is still going strong with Cathay. Although the entire non-ER 777-200 fleet there is up for sale, or was until very recently. No takers though.


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Photo © Sneeze Lam



User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3176 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
Why was ZA002 painted in NH colors anyway?

It was supposed to go to ANA. Same reason that ZA003 came down the production line with a Northwest rudder.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 11):
By the time Boeing painted the aircraft, it had already been decided to write off the first three frames as R&D.

It was partially painted long before the write-down decision. It was always intended to be painted in ANA livery and go to ANA. When Boeing (not ANA) decided not to send ZA002 to ANA there was no reason to repaint it. For very similar reasons, ZA003 started life in partial Northwest livery. After the Northwest/Delta merger they had to repaint it anyway so they went straight to the Boeing Light livery.

Under the original plan, ZA001 was in Boeing house colours, ZA002 was in full ANA livery, ZA003 was in full Northwest livery.

Tom.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3108 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 14):
It was supposed to go to ANA. Same reason that ZA003 came down the production line with a Northwest rudder.

Does anybody have a photo of that?   



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30978 posts, RR: 86
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3087 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
Does anybody have a photo of that?    
http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblogger/3502657663/in/photostream/


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1210 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
News to me. ZA003 was at the Museum Of Flight last weekend for a Boeing function...it looks almost identical to ZA001 now that they repainted ZA003 for the Dreamtour.

Other than the registration, are there any visible differences between ZA001 and ZA003 on the aircraft's exterior?



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlinepoLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2184 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 17):
Other than the registration, are there any visible differences between ZA001 and ZA003 on the aircraft's exterior?

Yes, they simplified the aft end of the livery some by changing the color of the light blue and the extent it covers the fuselage.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Gareth harvey
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Brandon Farris



ZA003 on left, ZA001 on right.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1210 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

Quoting poLOT (Reply 18):
Yes, they simplified the aft end of the livery some by changing the color of the light blue and the extent it covers the fuselage.

Wow, I've seen both aircraft in the metal (or should I say CFRP) but never noticed the livery differences until now. Thanks for the photo comparison, poLOT.  



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2527 times:

What exactly makes these 3 aircraft unattractive to any customer,be it private or commercial?

User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3505 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2486 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 20):
What exactly makes these 3 aircraft unattractive to any customer,be it private or commercial?

Overweight, extensively re-worked for testing purposes, generally off-spec from what Boeing promises for production 787s. I'm sure other posters can chime in and elaborate here.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineredrooster3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 229 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2456 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 20):
What exactly makes these 3 aircraft unattractive to any customer,be it private or commercial?

ZA001 was built, then taken apart many timesso the amount of changes made to its structure and fasteners and the lack of initial documentation made its future as a member of All Nippon''s fleet a non-starter. Plus she was overweight by 21,500 pounds. ZA001 is the most expensive prototype in aviation history, reaching 4 billion USD. ZA002 was as well, put together and separated many times as well. Both ZA001 and 002 were suppose to be delivered to NH, but NH rejected those aircraft's. ZA003 and 004 were going to NWA, but then NWA merged with DL, so that deal was off.



The only thing you should change about a woman is her last name.
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 20):

What exactly makes these 3 aircraft unattractive to any customer,be it private or commercial?

They're perfectly attractive to customers...Boeing would have to bring them up to type certificate design before delivering them so their configuration oddities now are a moot point to a customer. They'd especially make good business jets, where their relative overweight has much less impact and you wouldn't bother fitting a production interior anyway.

The problem is how much it would cost to bring them up to deliverable configuration...it would cost more than Boeing could ever get on the sale. The problem isn't that the airplane's can't find customers, it's that there's no business case for Boeing to sell them.

Tom.


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