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787 Flying Demonstration At Farnborough  
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 17001 times:

According to both "All Things 787" and "Randy's Blog", Boeing will be doing flying demonstrations with ZA461 during the Farnborough Airshow:
http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2012/06/787-flying-during-farnborough.html
http://boeingblogs.com/randy/archive...12/06/flying_at_farnborough_1.html

I'm hugely disappointed by their decision to do this but, that said, I hope all the folks at the show this year get a fantastic display.

Tom.

117 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineC680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 17032 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Thread starter):
I'm hugely disappointed by their decision to do this

Why? Because they are changing their position on the safety or value of flying demonstrations? Or less time for visiting it on the ramp? (or is it Tarmac? It is Jolly Olde England after all...)



My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16996 times:

Quoting C680 (Reply 1):

Maybe because it's ZA461? And not a bird in Boeing colors? That's the only downside I can see..

A7-BCB looks pretty sharp!
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 404 File size: 111kb

Source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonm/7445660244/

[Edited 2012-06-29 09:51:13]


Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlineC680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16900 times:

Quoting ghifty (Reply 2):
A7-BCB looks pretty sharp!

Still amazing to me that it is about the same length as a B767-300er. Increase wingspan & fuselage diameter, and it actually looks smaller to me (because of the proportions)



My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5393 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 16868 times:

Quoting C680 (Reply 3):
Still amazing to me that it is about the same length as a B767-300er. Increase wingspan & fuselage diameter, and it actually looks smaller to me (because of the proportions)

After looking at pictures, a lot of people are going to be blown away the first time they see one up close in person. It's much bigger than it looks in the photos. The huge engines also help keep the illusion going.

Quoting tdscanuck (Thread starter):
I'm hugely disappointed by their decision to do this

Please explain further, unless it would violate confidentiality obligations...


User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 16749 times:

Quoting C680 (Reply 3):
Still amazing to me that it is about the same length as a B767-300er. Increase wingspan & fuselage diameter, and it actually looks smaller to me (because of the proportions)

It looks smaller than the B767-300 to me as well! Just some visual trickery.. everything else is bigger except for it's length..



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7124 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 16726 times:

My only take on the decision is that Boeing years ago made a decision not to have flying decisions for Boeing's interest, whatever they may have been. Today, if they have agreed to have a flying demonstration it will mean that everything is availabe for sale. Boeing's screw up of the 787 progarm may have changed the company forever going forward.

User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 16624 times:

Quoting C680 (Reply 1):

Quoting tdscanuck (Thread starter):
I'm hugely disappointed by their decision to do this

Why? Because they are changing their position on the safety or value of flying demonstrations?

That's part of it. The decision to not do airshow flying demonstrations with the commercial jets has been in place for a long time at Boeing and I firmly believe in the reasoning I think is behind that decision. As a pilot I greatly respect put it, "It's like peeing in a dark suit. Done properly, nobody knows you've done it. Done wrong, it's incredibly embarrassing."

I always respected the position that airlines don't buy airliners because they look good in flying demonstrations; they buy them for things that don't show up in flying demos at all. The only feature you can really get a sense for is community noise and Boeing has been demonstrating that via flyovers/flybys at airshows for a long time too.

More tactically, this looks way too much like an Al-Baker show piece (again) and I'd like to believe the OEM's are trying to discourage that type of behavior. If Qatar themselves wanted to take their own airplane to the airshow and do their own flying demonstration, more power to them; I'd be elbowing for a front row seat. Caveat: I have *zero* knowledge of what's actually behind this, it just seems awfully coincidental that it involves Qatar.

Most fundamentally (unlike the miltary jets), airliners are all about safety. There is no real upside, and a small (but very real) risk to doing low altitude airliners maneuvers. When you have to do it, you do it and you do all the right risk mitigations. I know the pilots referenced in Randy's Blog and I have absolute faith in their ability to do a great, safe show...but even they can't do it at less risk than a static display and I don't see what the gain is.

Overall, this seems like a "breach of the floodgates"...if this, then what's next? I'm afraid of what par13del's astute comment may entail:

Quoting par13del (Reply 6):
Today, if they have agreed to have a flying demonstration it will mean that everything is availabe for sale.

Tom.


User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2095 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16465 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
More tactically, this looks way too much like an Al-Baker show piece (again) and I'd like to believe the OEM's are trying to discourage that type of behavior. If Qatar themselves wanted to take their own airplane to the airshow and do their own flying demonstration, more power to them;

I read this the same way, except I can see the reason behind this.

1) Qatar would not get the airplane in time to fly the plane themselves. Waiting for Paris would probably lessen the PR value.

2) If Qatar insisted on the flight demonstration, then there is precedence for Boeing to bend for their high profile customers . . . specially if safety is not an issue.

Just in case, make sure the lawyers have all the loose ends tied up.  

bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15731 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16426 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
More tactically, this looks way too much like an Al-Baker show piece (again)

I've heard rumors that QR (probably Al-Baker himself) basically insisted on it. I doubt it will become a pattern, Boeing is probably just doing it as a favor basically.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5421 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16420 times:

Airliner flyby's have always seemed like a bad idea. Commercial pilots, for the most part, aren't trained to fly their multi hundred ton behemoths a few feet off of the ground. Low level flying is a skill requiring very specific training to perfect.

I have no doubts that the Boeing pilots chosen are more than capable to pull off the task flawlessly but it seems like an unnecessary, if small, added risk for no real reward.

I was more than impressed to see the, (much, much bigger than it seems in pictures), static 787 at Oshkosh last year, and seeing it take off for the flight home.

On the other hand, it should be a spectacular sight...



What the...?
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5393 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16378 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
If Qatar themselves wanted to take their own airplane to the airshow and do their own flying demonstration, more power to them; I'd be elbowing for a front row seat.

I completely understand your general reasoning. But I think I'd rather have the 787 test pilots doing the display than any airline pilots, even the best ones employed by the best airlines in the world. Perhaps (this is obviously total speculation) al-Baker insisted that he was going to do a demonstration and Boeing decided to do it for him instead.


User currently offlineWingedMigrator From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2212 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16336 times:

Is there any concern that more skill is required to flirt with the edge of the flight envelope than in an Airbus?

User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2095 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16329 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 10):

I have no doubts that the Boeing pilots chosen are more than capable to pull off the task flawlessly but it seems like an unnecessary, if small, added risk for no real reward.

But didn't the 787 performed fly-by's during the various world tour?

This would be a grander stage than during those other fly-by's

The reward would be when Qatar put money down for another boat load of 787's or 747-8's.  

Or perhaps this was one of the promissory items owed to settle their recent Boeing-Cargolux dispute?   

And besides, we all drool over those sexy flexing wings . . . why not let more people see those wings live? . . . I mean alive!!!

bt

[Edited 2012-06-29 12:07:45]

[Edited 2012-06-29 12:08:16]


Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5421 posts, RR: 30
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 16211 times:

Ultimately, it's a risk/reward scenario. Will a flyby garner them any sales? If it keeps a current customer happy, maybe that may be enough reward.


What the...?
User currently offlineHullCitySpotter From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 16066 times:

Interesting that the A380 will be parked; yet the 787 won't be.
Plus if I'm right, Boeing haven't even got any aircraft parked on the public days; as the 737-900ER from KE is being parked from Monday - Wednesday.


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9007 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 16055 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 10):
Airliner flyby's have always seemed like a bad idea. Commercial pilots, for the most part, aren't trained to fly their multi hundred ton behemoths a few feet off of the ground. Low level flying is a skill requiring very specific training to perfect.

I know when our aircraft have been in displays, in formation with the Red Arrows etc, they have been flown by pilots with lots of display experience, probably more than any of the manufacturers test pilots. People forget that military pilots from display teams like the Thunderbirds, Red Arrows, Roulettes, Blue Angels etc often do not stay in the military for life, they go on and join airlines. Needless to say, it is not impossible if Qatar have some very experienced display pilots that fly airliners as their day job.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineBE77 From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 16028 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
"...if this, then what's next?

9 * 747-8i or 787's on loan to the 431 Air Demonstration Squadron of the RCAF

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 14):
If it keeps a current customer happy, maybe that may be enough reward.

Generally the correct answer for any commercial activity, as long as it is done safely - which should be possible (I hope!).
If a safe flight cannot be briefed and executed for a substantially empty airliner at an airshow, then the aircraft, processes and training could probably use a thorough review. Nothing is ever '0' risk, but a couple of circuits shouldn't be any more risk than a flight with passengers.



Tower, Affirmitive, gear is down and welded
User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 562 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 16013 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
I've heard rumors that QR (probably Al-Baker himself) basically insisted on it. I doubt it will become a pattern

A wonderful and brilliant friend of ours has a saying that I have stolen: It's only kinky the first time.

Precedence is everything.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15731 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 16012 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
If Qatar themselves wanted to take their own airplane to the airshow and do their own flying demonstration, more power to them; I'd be elbowing for a front row seat. Caveat: I have *zero* knowledge of what's actually behind this, it just seems awfully coincidental that it involves Qatar.

Here's the thing: Qatar really wants to put on a show. So, is it better for them to do it with their own relatively inexperienced pilots or let Boeing do it with pilots who have been flying and testing the 787 for about two and a half years?

Besides, if Boeing said no, we all know Al-Baker wouldn't hesitate to make an issue of it.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8088 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 16010 times:

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 12):

Is there any concern that more skill is required to flirt with the edge of the flight envelope than in an Airbus?

Bingo. This is the reason Boeing don't fly at air shows - a Boeing is as safe as an Airbus in normal airline operation, but an Airbus is uniquely suited to display flying cos the handling pilot doesn't particularly need to know where the edge of the envelope is, ya just haul the stick back to the stop and the computers take care of the rest. A Boeing with conventional controls cannot do the same kind of stunts. Perhaps this decision shows the extent of the FBW in the 787.

Can't wait - looking forward to seeing a great display from a fantastic machine.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5393 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15976 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 20):
ya just haul the stick back to the stop and the computers take care of the rest.

Wasn't exactly this sort of thinking responsible for the Mulhouse A320 crash? I would think that an Airbus driver should be just as conscious of where the edge of the envelope is and what's going on as a Boeing driver.


User currently offlinebmibaby737 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1803 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15911 times:

Quoting HullCitySpotter (Reply 15):
Plus if I'm right, Boeing haven't even got any aircraft parked on the public days; as the 737-900ER from KE is being parked from Monday - Wednesday.

The Boeing Next-Generation 737-900ER with the Boeing Sky Interior will be available for media viewing during the following times:

Monday: 12.00 to 13.00
Tuesday: 12.00 to 13.00
Wednesday: 12.00 to 13.00
Thursday: 12.00 to 13.00

Edit: Does anyone know which aircraft is being shown at Farnborough, Boeing 737-9B5ER HL8249 was delivered to South Korea already this week & I don't see any others due?

[Edited 2012-06-29 13:25:53]

User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7124 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15901 times:

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 12):
Is there any concern that more skill is required to flirt with the edge of the flight envelope than in an Airbus?

I don't think that will be a factor, pilots doing fly by's with commercial a/c are not going to be "pushing the envelop" of the a/c, at most other than straight and level they may perform a complete turn to let everyone where ever they are at the show see the full a/c, not going to get much more than that for a display that's less than 10 mins.


User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2510 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15806 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
this looks way too much like an Al-Baker show piece (again)

Sounds reasonable.

Hey Tom, just wondering how you feel about Boeing doing demo flights at Seafair and the Boeing Classic golf tournament. They do them just about every year. The ones at the golf tourney are usually with an aircraft already painted up in a customer's livery but I believe they're still under Boeing's ownership at the time - they're "pre-delivery" flight if I am not mistaken.


25 U2380 : I thought the A380 was doing some flying displays? "The full range of our newest commercial and military aircraft will be on display at the Farnborou
26 tdscanuck : Yes, lots. A fly-by is extremely different than an airshow display. A flyby is, for all intents and approaches, a low approach on normal procedures.
27 Post contains images WingedMigrator : I guess you've never seen an Airbus flying display. I saw my first at the '93 Paris airshow (with an A340-300) and nearly fell on my butt when I saw
28 scbriml : Tom, I have two points here: 1 - It's only an issue affecting the A320's reputation here on airliners.net and a few other geeky websites. If you ask
29 BoeingGuy : Wrong. That crash probably wouldn't have happened in a Boeing airplane. Boeing airplanes actually respond to all pilot inputs. The computer doesn't h
30 seabosdca : But (if they are old enough to have been aware in 1988) you ask them something vague (and wrong) like "Don't you remember when an Airbus crashed beca
31 Stitch : Perhaps. but I have seen QF's 747-400s do some impressive maneuvers over Melbourne during the Formula One Grand Prix events... That accident was not
32 tdscanuck : There's a legitimate argument about whether the pilot would have approached the maneuver in the way he did if it had been a Boeing but, if he'd flown
33 zeke : Going by that brief bio, both are ex-single seat fast jet pilots, great for exploring the new stability and control points in the envelope. Different
34 cedarjet : Oh dear god, where do you people get your information from? The fact that the pilot in Mulhouse was flying an Airbus had nothing to do with the crash.
35 rotating14 : Didn't a mishap at a past Airshow cost Boeing an order vs the A340?? All I remember is that a faulty engine cost Boeing a 777 order. Somebody care to
36 tdscanuck : There's a (relatively) famous case of a 777 engine (a PW, I think) surging in front of a grandstand of VIPs at some event or another. I never heard o
37 pnwtraveler : Some of my favourite airshow displays have been with civilian aircraft. One of the best was with one of the re-engined Air Canada DC8 freighters. It b
38 seabosdca : That is true. But it's not what was communicated in the press at the time, and it's not what the general public remembers. The public takeaway was "n
39 JAAlbert : Maybe they'll do some barrel rolls with the 787 in honor of the 707 (unauthorized) display so many years ago!
40 Post contains images astuteman : As a point of order, "wrong" isn't really an answer to WM's question. "Yes", "no", or "perhaps" might fit better.... don't go there....... Rgds
41 Post contains images airmagnac : Actually, Habsheim was an Air France aircraft with an AF crew...but as you then say, it hit Airbus as much as it did AF. So I would be careful with t
42 Post contains images scbriml : Not normally from those that actually understand it. I would still dispute that 95% of the general public knows or cares about it. Regardless, I'm lo
43 Post contains images airmagnac : Sure, no objection from me, but did/do all decision makers understand it ? In the world, sure. My point was about the French, and many (not most, for
44 Ruscoe : Maybe Boeing just want to show how quiet it is? Ruscoe
45 AirlineCritic : I am hugely disappointed that I'm not attending.
46 tom355uk : If you are at the edge of the flight envelope, the only thing that the 'let the pilot control the plane' crew are going to do is crash much harder th
47 jumpjets : Totally off topic - but wouldn't the heart quicken if at the 2013 Trooping of the Colour in London the traditional flypast included a brand new BA 787
48 Stitch : To think we might possibly have had this not only for the Queen's Jubilee, but also the Opening Ceremonies...
49 par13del : My question would be if you are flying a Boeing which does not have the protections of an Airbus a/c why would you attempt to fly as if it did, certa
50 bellancacf : Any ideas about what this demo might consist of, if it is to be more than a dignified low pass?
51 lightsaber : I've been amused at the comments on risk at an airshow. This will have Boeing test pilots not raw QR pilots (unless they were trained as test pilots a
52 Post contains images tom355uk : I wasn't specifically referring to demonstration flights in the context of flying within the envelope - more in reference to the pilots (or sciolists
53 sphealey : The ATPs here please correct me if I am wrong, but I have to think that however exciting the demo may appear to the spectator that the entire thing wi
54 Post contains images MadameConcorde : I will be there a couple of days. I hope the weather will cooperate. I wonder why QR? Was there money under the table or was it about more orders fro
55 Post contains links bikerthai : O.K. Here is what I could find of the actual flight . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b76l-iYpphM No barrel roll but . . . . bt
56 Post contains links flood : Flying demo about to start btw http://www.ustream.tv/channel/flightglobal
57 Post contains links CM : It wasn't an airshow. It was an actual takeoff demonstration where both Boeing and Airbus aircraft were demonstrating to SA they could takeoff at MTO
58 Post contains images MadameConcorde : Absolutely stunning! I wonder who the test pilots doing the flying displays are? Is that Mike Carricker in command of the aircraft or the lady test p
59 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : As if the demo wasn't enough, they did a touch and go followed by a steep banking to the right. Impressive is too little a word! http://www.youtube.co
60 Post contains images scbriml : Yes, saw it today. Very good display and hopefully the start of full-time Boeing participation in the flying displays at major air shows.
61 tdscanuck : It's *supposed* to help QR and Boeing look good. Done right, it will make them look good and result in zero additional sales. Done wrong, it could ta
62 Post contains images bikerthai : Ah, but there would be additional sales . . . in boarding tickets just not airplanes And in that part of the region, prestige can be paramount. bt
63 Post contains images MadameConcorde : Thank you very much for the information. That flying demo is beyond impressive. I love the 787. I fell in love with Princess Dreamliner that first ti
64 FI642 : Until you see her in person, one does think "767"- Got to see the demonstrator at DCA. WOW!
65 JAAlbert : It's the wings that make the plane so majestic in the air. They are long, but slender and tapered, it makes the plane look like it loves flying.
66 JoeCanuck : I conditionally take it back; while I still believe there is not much in the way of economic advantage to having a commercial airline fly around an ai
67 Post contains images scbriml : It does. After years of only seeing Airbus fly at the major shows, it was a real joy to see the 787 show it's capabilities. Unashamed plug from today
68 bikerthai : Awfully good shot of those vortices coming over the wing. Like laces on a dancer' costume . . . bt
69 ER757 : And by the looks of those videos, it indeed did! What a stunning looking aircraft - I've said it before and I'll say it again - now that Concorde is
70 Post contains links and images SANChaser : Awesome flying display - referring to the videos of course. I saw something in the stunning takeoff photo that sparked my curiosity: See how the sunli
71 Post contains images sweair : Those wings are really awsome and the comet nose is very slick, not the ugly nose of the 767 or 777
72 skipness1E : I did see the display and it does look like a B767. It's impressive but lacks and wow factor for me, I think the economics are going to be great and i
73 ual777uk : Great display of the 787 at Farnborough........is she there all weekend and doing displays for the public?
74 flood : I think today's the last day for her, as Boeing indicated the 787 would only be on static display from July 9 to 11.
75 Post contains links and images RobK : View Large View MediumPhoto © Steve Brimley What is the little hatch that's open behind the rudder?
76 flipdewaf : I'm Going to guess APU inlet. I love the ailiners doing the displays. I think that many kids will go to airshows and see these amazing machines and t
77 Post contains links and images skipness1E : http://www.farnborough.com/trade-static-aircraft-listing.htm Let me google that for you
78 Post contains links tdscanuck : Sort of. It's an effect of section construction in general. There is a huge Ti splice plate underneath the section joints. What you're seeing is all
79 scbriml : On a conventionally constructed plane you can see individual panels. You just need to find the right photo where the light shows it. Or, next time yo
80 RobK : Thanks guys. Never noticed it before! Btw @ the Steve Brimley guy re your pics, there is no such thing as a "B787-8DZ". The aircraft pictured is simp
81 bikerthai : What also makes the barrel joint stand out is the lack of fasteners on the rest of the body. The stringers and shear ties are bonded so the rest of t
82 smws : Must be said that the 787 is a stunner! Can't wait to get a chance to fly on one.
83 CM : The shear ties are mechanically fastened. Only the stringers are bonded.[Edited 2012-07-11 06:47:14]
84 Post contains images ual777uk : Oh well, thats me not going at the weekend then as the 787 was the highlight for me, i wanted to see her in the flesh! Cheers, Skipness....too lazy m
85 bikerthai : There you go. Then there's got to be a better explanation on why the shear tie fasteners are not visible in the picture but the barrel spice fastener
86 Post contains links CM : There is. The Circumferential splice is a large structural joint with large fasteners, pad-ups in the skin and large splice plates on the backside. T
87 scbriml : You'll have to take that up with the database editors - I just put the reg in and the system fills in the rest. I think every airline 787 photo on th
88 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : as per the official page there is no 787 flying display today either... http://www.farnborough.com/pdf/Flyin...Display-2012-Thursday-12-07-12.pdf FLY
89 Post contains images SANChaser : Thanks guys for the detailed pictures and explanations for the barrel joints. Now I know what to look out for when I see the 787 live.
90 bikerthai : O.K. I can accept that with the large fastener, the gap between the countersunk (non knife edge) head and the edge of the countersunk hole is larger
91 Post contains links 135mech : The aircraft is registered as 787-8DZ already according to: http://www.planespotters.net/Product...on_List/Boeing/787/787-8/index.php c/n >ln >
92 RobK : Your point being what exactly? There are many database sites that copy each other's duff info and that site is no exception.
93 RobK : OK fair dos. Really someone should fix that pretty sharpish as already there are a lot of people taking the addition of customer code on the 787s as
94 scbriml : Do you have anything from Boeing that clarifies this?
95 RobK : Yes. There was big discussion about it in one of the old '787 production and delivery' threads a while back. To be honest with you I didn't believe i
96 Post contains links and images CM : As you know, I have great regard for test engineers However, per one of the Airbus pilots who flies the A380 routine, he describes that pass as "unde
97 135mech : Really??? My point is NOW... We are providing information based on the facts given to us by this website and other reliable websites... IF you have f
98 RobK : There has already been lengthy discussion about it in the 787 production and delivery threads on here. Boeing themselves have no reason to come out a
99 Post contains links Konradh767 : The proof that Boeing and FAA did away with Customer codes can be found in the Type Certification Data Sheets (TCDS). These are the documents which ac
100 ebj1248650 : Care to explain how it could result in zero additional sales? Makes no sense whatsoever! Boeing and other manufacturers demonstrate their wares to pr
101 ebj1248650 : Nicely said. Thank you!
102 tdscanuck : Because airlines don't buy airliners based on any factors that you can demonstrate during an airshow display (not that this is generally not true of
103 JoeCanuck : I 100% agree...but it did look purty, dangit...
104 flipdewaf : Then one would have to ask why Boeing would be a the airshow at all? All the relevant numbers for the economics could be sent over internet wires sur
105 tdscanuck : Because airlines absolutely do care about the passenger experience, which means they care about the cabin, and they care about gate operations, which
106 MD-90 : So who paid for the Jet-A for the demonstration, Boeing or Qatar?
107 Post contains images frigatebird : Not even a sheik that doesn't know what to do with all the money he inherited? Although the maneuvers seen during the display would wreak havoc on hi
108 bikerthai : And this is exactly my point. Which airline is Qatar in competition with? To have his airplane on display in front of the Aviation world is like havi
109 135mech : Thank you for the fact sheets and information! Love learning more about them! Have a great day!
110 tdscanuck : If the OEM is the one bringing the airplane to the show, it would normally be the OEM paying for the fuel. This a Boeing owned aircraft being operate
111 bikerthai : Is it really? Boeing probably provides the fuel for the flight over. But once there all the airplanes fuel up from the same source right? Can some on
112 BMI727 : That's true. But Boeing shows TV commercials too, and we both know that those don't sell planes either. That's for the public, many of whom invest mo
113 Post contains images scbriml : Nah, they've already had the biggest flying advertisement seven years ago at the Dubai Air Show:
114 flipdewaf : I think this is likely the case, I have seen adverts for the Boeing, embraer etc many times in flight international and I don't think anyone reading
115 Post contains images bikerthai : But that was "and eternity" ago . . . And I bet Qatar was drooling back then too. Just imagine, when that 787 made the bank to show the belly to the
116 Tradewinds : I my mind that demonstration removes any doubt that the 787 is the most beautiful aircraft out there. The lines, curvature of the wings, everything --
117 pnwtraveler : I agree with Tom that no airline is going to buy an aircraft based on an aircraft flying at an airshow. It is more about airline pride, manufacture s
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