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Fedex Orders Additional 767s  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25357 posts, RR: 49
Posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17743 times:

19 additional 767-300F for delivery between 2015-2019 to add to 27 previously announced order for the model.

Sounds like they also dropped orders on 4 777F and used those monies to help with this order.

Story:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fedex-...ns-fleet-upgrade-19-205425801.html

=


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4058 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 17554 times:

Sounds like the right move. Shift from international expansion to shoring up the struggling domestic market. FX can now park even more of the fuel-guzzling MD10s.

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13111 posts, RR: 100
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 17466 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
19 additional 767-300F for delivery between 2015-2019 to add to 27 previously announced order for the model.

Ironic. I talked to a friend last night on how I was certain FedEx would top off their 763F order Wednesday night!


I did not expect a cut of 4 777F orders though...  
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 1):
Sounds like the right move.

Agreed. However, its sad to read: "The company on June 19 said it was focused on cost cuts to boost profit margins during a prolonged period of slow global economic growth."

That means FedEx will focus on cost cutting for a while instead of volume growth. For us aviation fans, it means FedEx will look into means of 'flying' cargo via truck too.   Ok, they would have anyway, but I expect it accelerates the process.

Day goodbye to 19 old widebodies pretty soon... (Maybe more, depending on how many are displaced by ground transit.)

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineco38 From Norway, joined May 2009, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 17431 times:

Will the 767 FedEx has on order be winglet equipped?

It says in the article the 767s will be used to replace MD-10s, does that mean all the DC-10s has been retired?


User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1359 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 17267 times:

And if one reads between the lines, it would seem FedEx have made their lack of interest in both the A332F and A332/3P2F quite clear now. Which is a surprise to me, but there we are.

I wonder if Airbus has fallen into a near-dry spot with the A330 freighter, placed as it is just between the 777F and the 767F. Want something big and intercontinental? Go for the 777F. Want something a bit smaller and "continental" only? 767F is still considerably cheaper to operate (purchasing price taken into account) than A332F, and if you need something a bit bigger .... why add a 3rd fleet and 2nd supplier for what, looks like, almost a niche market? "Abusing" a 777F or sticking a second 767F on the route might be the better overall solution. I honestly don't know, but the lack of orders for the A332F and a complete absence of launch orders for the P2F version leaves me wondering.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2896 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 17124 times:
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I for one, is quite happy. With seeing less 767's as pax ac over the coming years I can still see her take off from EWR, and then bank, offering beautiful views of her leap into the air! I will always love her lines.


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13111 posts, RR: 100
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16938 times:
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Quoting B777LRF (Reply 4):
the lack of orders for the A332F and a complete absence of launch orders for the P2F version leaves me wondering.

All indications are that pax A330 orders are driving up the A330F price. For better or worse, that will end in a few years. I'm holding off a decision until then. In particular, I'm waiting to see if:

1. Airbus removes the 2 tons of weight that are in the A330 to provide A340 production commonality that is no longer required (ok, a good chunk of the weight removal is new aluminums... but it still is weight to be removed).
2. Possible new winglets.

Add in an engine PIP, and the payload at range for the A330F improves enough to sell. I'm also hearing rumors of a centerline tank change to cut weight, in particular un-usable fuel. That would help the A330F.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinethreeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16927 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 2):
That means FedEx will focus on cost cutting for a while instead of volume growth. For us aviation fans, it means FedEx will look into means of 'flying' cargo via truck too. Ok, they would have anyway, but I expect it accelerates the process.

Trucks can't travel any faster than they did 10 years ago, though, and ground has always been cheaper than air, so FX would presumably have already implemented ground-based "air" service where feasible. I bet cities near major FX hubs already get a lot of trucked cargo (LIT, CVG, SDF, etc.), but I don't know where else it would be feasible to add trucks for planes. Nearby cities up to ~200 miles apart are often within the next day service area for FedEx Ground, so I doubt FX is getting huge air volumes on those routes.

Maybe FX will cut some 208 flying - there is a daily SEA-BVS (Burlington, WA) route that is only 83 miles by land, airport to airport. Most of that is freeway. Delivery times would be later and cutoff times would be earlier at the outstation, but that might be a worthwhile tradeoff.


User currently offlineiceberg210 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16900 times:

Great news! Albeit I'm a bit surprised I really figured we'd see a UPS top up order before we saw a Fed Ex one, given that UPS has only 9 left on order, and Fed Ex hasn't even received their first aircraft.

Not to complain though! If there is any aircraft I love to see get orders it's the 767! Long may it live!

And if I'm Boeing I'm sitting there smiling and thrilled! Yeah I've lost 4 orders for 777's, but let's be honest, if there is one line that selling like hot cakes it's the 777, plus later when International is more Fed Ex's focus again their main option will be the 777, so no worries on that there. You'll take these 19 planes, that could well have been A330's, any day of the week.

Speaking of which I am pretty surprised at how the A330, seems to be so quiet order wise for freighters (both new build and P2F). We'll have to see how it keeps rolling....



Erik Berg (Foster's is over but never forgotten)
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30978 posts, RR: 86
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16733 times:
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Looks like Boeing reducing the cost and time to produce a 767 with the new FAL is paying off in new orders.

User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2241 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16566 times:

Sounds like FedEx is not overly hyped about the long haul market due to the downturn. They must be banking that it will be settling in for a while. They must feel the existing 77F will cover any expansion into China and growth there.

User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16412 times:

With today's developments, is FX still still searching far and wide for 757's to convert into freighters??

User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4768 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 16295 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 6):
All indications are that pax A330 orders are driving up the A330F price. For better or worse, that will end in a few years. I'm holding off a decision until then. In particular, I'm waiting to see if:

1. Airbus removes the 2 tons of weight that are in the A330 to provide A340 production commonality that is no longer required (ok, a good chunk of the weight removal is new aluminums... but it still is weight to be removed).
2. Possible new winglets.

Add in an engine PIP, and the payload at range for the A330F improves enough to sell. I'm also hearing rumors of a centerline tank change to cut weight, in particular un-usable fuel. That would help the A330F.

Wouldn't just offering a 238t A332F version like you can get on the pax help rather than just having a 233t?


User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7298 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 16282 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 2):
Day goodbye to 19 old widebodies pretty soon... (Maybe more, depending on how many are displaced by ground transit.)

2019 isn't soon and this doesn't replace any INL expansion regardless of the mention it did. CAN & PVG will use the 67F.


User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 16055 times:

with the new crew base in CGN I wouldn't be surprised to see some in Europe too.

User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7298 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15999 times:
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Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 14):
with the new crew base in CGN I wouldn't be surprised to see some in Europe too.

  

I had already posted but the note had listed a Euro hub as well for domestic ops.


User currently offlineups757 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15971 times:

Sounds like FedEx is following what UPS did years ago.
UPS gets seven 767 this year and seven more in 2013.
I'll take a 767 over an A300 anytime of the year.


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15868 times:

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 7):
Trucks can't travel any faster than they did 10 years ago, though, and ground has always been cheaper than air, so FX would presumably have already implemented ground-based "air" service where feasible. I bet cities near major FX hubs already get a lot of trucked cargo (LIT, CVG, SDF, etc.), but I don't know where else it would be feasible to add trucks for planes. Nearby cities up to ~200 miles apart are often within the next day service area for FedEx Ground, so I doubt FX is getting huge air volumes on those routes.

Oddly enough, FX still does a decent bit of air out of CVG. UPS trucks everything from SDF, but even with the mini hub at IND, FX still has an Airbus there most days. Whenever I go back to visit, I leave to go back home in the morning, there is almost always an A300 or 310 on the ramp.

Or is it just as simple as using IND as a collector for FX Feeder traffic, and then taking the O&D cargo from CVG straight to MEM where it can then get anywhere in the system? If something like that is in place, it could explain their different strategy from UPS there. Surely if there is a package from CVG-xxx where 'xxx' has to be flown on a Feeder route from IND that MEM doesn't serve, they would just truck it up there.

[Edited 2012-06-29 18:58:57]

User currently offlineDFWRamper From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15309 times:

Pretty sure the new 767 aircraft are incompatible with the AMJ's that FedEx uses, aren't they? It's been a long time, but is it the A2 container that UPS uses in those airplanes? If FedEx is going to introduce a new container type into the network -- that seems like a tremendous cost in addition to the new aircraft. Was the A330F compatible with the AMJ's or did that airplane also require a new container type so the container costs never entered into the buy comparison?

User currently offlineairplanenut From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 655 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15231 times:

Quoting co38 (Reply 3):
Will the 767 FedEx has on order be winglet equipped?

I doubt it. My understanding is that the winglet on the 767 can still only be installed as a retrofit, so a new 767 with winglets would have to be built as normal, then immediately have the wing tip replaced. While fuel efficiency is important in all of aviation, it is less so for cargo operations because the planes fly less (look at how many cargo planes are the gas guzzlers the airlines got rid of), so I would assume it isn't worth the cost for FedEx to do it.



Why yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist...
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30978 posts, RR: 86
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15173 times:
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Quoting DFWRamper (Reply 18):
If FedEx is going to introduce a new container type into the network -- that seems like a tremendous cost in addition to the new aircraft.

I expect the cost is quite low, relatively. Plus with a large 767 fleet, the can utilization goes up.



Quoting DFWRamper (Reply 18):
Was the A330F compatible with the AMJ's or did that airplane also require a new container type so the container costs never entered into the buy comparison?

The A330 can take an AMJ and AYY side-by-side like on the A300 and A310 fleets.


User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3081 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14734 times:

Quoting co38 (Reply 3):
It says in the article the 767s will be used to replace MD-10s, does that mean all the DC-10s has been retired?

Yes, the last Fedex DC-10 flight was on April 6th, 2009, when N315FE was retired to the desert. This same plane was then converted to an MD-10 and is back flying again with Fedex.

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User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13111 posts, RR: 100
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14451 times:
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Quoting trex8 (Reply 12):
Wouldn't just offering a 238t A332F version like you can get on the pax help rather than just having a 233t?

Yep!   

That too.   But price will be an issue until A330 pax demand drops a wee bit more.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4058 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14149 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 2):
Day goodbye to 19 old widebodies pretty soon... (Maybe more, depending on how many are displaced by ground transit.)

If they can be effectively replaced by ground transit, they probably already have been. FX isn't going to fly a trunk aircraft fifty miles just for giggles.

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 7):
I bet cities near major FX hubs already get a lot of trucked cargo (LIT, CVG, SDF, etc.), but I don't know where else it would be feasible to add trucks for planes. Nearby cities up to ~200 miles apart are often within the next day service area for FedEx Ground, so I doubt FX is getting huge air volumes on those routes.

Ground does not guarantee that service however, so shippers often still opt for Express just to cover their asses. If Ground wants to take three days to ship a package 200 miles they can with no repercussions.

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 7):
Maybe FX will cut some 208 flying - there is a daily SEA-BVS (Burlington, WA) route that is only 83 miles by land, airport to airport. Most of that is freeway. Delivery times would be later and cutoff times would be earlier at the outstation, but that might be a worthwhile tradeoff.

First Overnight will not make the commit time if that is trucked. Probably the same for much of the Priority stuff. Besides, the drive on freeway from SEA to BVS during the morning rush hour isn't exactly a walk in the park.

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 11):
With today's developments, is FX still still searching far and wide for 757's to convert into freighters??

There are only about 10-12ish 727s left in the fleet so the demand isn't what it was before...that said, FX probably won't turn down a good deal. The 757 is used internationally as well as domestic.

Quoting DFWRamper (Reply 18):
Pretty sure the new 767 aircraft are incompatible with the AMJ's that FedEx uses, aren't they? It's been a long time, but is it the A2 container that UPS uses in those airplanes? If FedEx is going to introduce a new container type into the network -- that seems like a tremendous cost in addition to the new aircraft.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
The A330 can take an AMJ and AYY side-by-side like on the A300 and A310 fleets.

There is a new container. The Airbuses are being converted to take the new containers so they will be common with the 767. There will be a lot fewer AMJs flown in the system after this takes place.


User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12543 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11219 times:

Between FedEx, UPS and the USAF, it's a sure bet we'll be able to see 767s flying in the 2040s...

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 1):
Sounds like the right move. Shift from international expansion to shoring up the struggling domestic market.

This clear statement about the weak international market also seems to push back the "inevitable" A380F at least another half decade if not more. Leahy's "postponed" A380F seems to never get a break.

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 11):
With today's developments, is FX still still searching far and wide for 757's to convert into freighters??

I suspect not. They already do have a backlog for their conversion process. I suspect they really don't have to search for 757s. They are kind of like DL with their DC-9 derivatives. Sellers who want a nice clean tidy sale know to knock on FedEx's door.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
25 redflyer : I don't think Airbus is worried too much right now with a lack of F orders. They launched the program when everyone expected Pax orders to start drop
26 Ups Pilot : The 767 is a great choice for FX. UPS has been flying new build 767's going on 20 years. The MD-10 conversion wasn't the smartest thing FX did. The 76
27 747400sp : I guess 767s fans, should really love FX. Well, in the future, when the world sees a lot of 787s and 777s, thank to FX and USAF, people will see the p
28 ebj1248650 : The A300s served them well, as did the A310s. I don't think anyone will argue they got their money's worth out of both. That said, new equipment will
29 Ups Pilot : I think UPS and FX are basically done with Airbus unless something drastic takes place. The whole A380 mess left bad tastes. UPS even canceled the rem
30 KC135TopBoom : Weren't the last few B-767-300ERs delivered to NH last year and early this year factory fresh with blended winglets mounted during final assembly?
31 Revelation : One Boeing insider who posts here did a good posting saying that while it is true that they started with the 767 section 41, very little of it ended
32 KDAYflyer : Great news for the 767 line! Congrats too Fedex and Boeing. I wonder of a few of these birds will end up in the new Asian hub?
33 Spacepope : The newest Armenian 763, whch was just completed, was flown to ATL for winglet installation.
34 SCL767 : Congrats to Boeing and FedEx on this latest order. It's great to see a new order or a top-up order for the B-767-300ERs! The blended winglets are not
35 SEPilot : I do find it interesting that both UPS and FX have large A300-A310 fleets but neither have ordered the A330F, which on first blush would seem a natur
36 Post contains images lightsaber : Yes! It is easy to get wrapped up in the a.net discussion and forget such important things. Further 763F orders will help Boeing keep the line open (
37 Stitch : The 767-300F is actually quite capable of replacing an A300-600RF or A310-300F. The following figures are, in order, for the 767-300F, the A300-600RF
38 NC1844v : Interesting News. Its good to see that the 767 that is slowly disappearing form our skies as Pax aircraft will live on for the near future as cargo ai
39 cloudyapple : If you think about what they are replacing (DC10/MD10s), you will realize B767 is the easiest option - both DC10 and B767 are ICAO Code D/FAA Cat IV
40 Spacepope : Whoopsie. That mixup would start a minor war in that area of the world. In any case, winglets are still being installed on new aircraft by third part
41 rotating14 : Could you elaborate a bit more on this??
42 krisyyz : Just out of curiosity, what is the flightdeck layout of the new build 767s? Is it still the "classic" 767 type or is Boeing building them with LCD dis
43 HPRamper : I would argue that since FX has the newest build A300s flying, they have not yet gotten their money's worth out of them. That's why they aren't parki
44 Ups Pilot : To the person who said UPS and FX were acting childish in regards to the A 380, what are you talking about? It's business. Airbus didn't deliver and B
45 EXMEMWIDGET : That has been happening for years. So much of the Express volume has been shifted over to FedEx Freight and FedEx Ground that it has become frighteni
46 HPRamper : It's two different companies. Express has certain guarantees and perks that Ground does not offer and that is why Express costs so much more. Sure, m
47 HPRamper : FT employees may be scheduled for less than 35 hours per week but they still get paid for 35 as that is the minimum. They can work ten hours a week a
48 trex8 : How about A can sell every pax A330 they make at a "high" price while B is desperate to keep the 767 line going till the KC46s roll off them.
49 Stitch : The A330-200 freighter (new-build and converted) does seem to be a victim of the passenger model's success, but Boeing significantly reduced the cost
50 CosmicCruiser : dude you don't work here so just end your sarcastic remarks. From the UPS guys I've met, know and drunk beers with on the road, I'm glad I'm where I'
51 EXMEMWIDGET : [ I don't know where you work, but the couriers never work the ramp at my location. Also, the last time I checked, a full time job was 40 hrs a week,
52 SEPilot : Doesn't the smaller fuselage diameter of the 767 significantly complicate things (I take it both use containers)? This may be a consideration, but I
53 TWA772LR : The A330s wingspan is longer than the span of the 767. So, at the MEM Superhub, u can fit 767s into the same sized space as a MD10, A300, etc... and
54 aerokiwi : The sheer scale of the FedEx MEM hub never ceases to amaze me, and calculations like this are great, thanks. I'm glad the 767 is getting a new lease
55 Stitch : Depends. A 767 can take an LD3, just in single-file. It can also take 96x125" and 88x108" ULDs and pallets. An FX employee noted that FX is moving to
56 HPRamper : Small ramps...."B" market types do the cross-utilized thing. And no, I'm not arguing your point. It used to be that you could make a career out of be
57 Ups Pilot : HP Ramper I suggest you go on Fed Ex website. Fed Ex ground has had guaranteed Day definite delivery and up to date tracking just as express. The onl
58 Post contains links Ups Pilot : How is it sarcastic? I'm still waiting for you answer from the last time. What does F Street drinks have to do with the price of tea in China. I'm th
59 HPRamper : I don't need to go on the website, I know plenty about FX. Day Definite delivery is not the same as time-definite, for just overnight Express has thr
60 Ups Pilot : Hp Ramper you have even said its not the same company anymore. You are right day definite is not time definite. But you said ground doesn't offer the
61 FX1816 : What exactly does this have to do with FDX adding more 763's to their order? You seem to be trolling on any thread about FDX recently with the same g
62 srbmod : Since some of you have decided to take the discussion OFF TOPIC, this thread is now locked. The topic is not about FedEx v. UPS operations, it is abou
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