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Southwest Buys Spirit DCA Slots  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24316 posts, RR: 47
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 16306 times:

Per DOT, on July 2nd, the FAA approved the sale of 4 Spirit Airlines inside-perimeter DCA slots to Southwest Airlines effective September 6th.

According to the DOT filling, SWA intends to utilize the slots to commence DCA-STL service - currently a monopoly market, with only regional jet service.


OST-2012-0109

[Edited 2012-07-03 10:46:52]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 16309 times:
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4 slots meaning 4 daily flights or 4 slots meaning 2 daily flights? I'm sorry, I just get confused. It seeks more logical to me for atwice daily flight to STL rather than 4.


avi8
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 16241 times:

Quoting avi8 (Reply 1):
4 slots meaning 4 daily flights or 4 slots meaning 2 daily flights? I'm sorry, I just get confused. It seeks more logical to me for atwice daily flight to STL rather than 4.

A slot denotes a takeoff OR landing; 4 slots is 2 flights.


User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 860 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 16154 times:

I'm curious when we'll find out if WN will be awarded the slots for DCA-OKC. It's also a matter of time before DCA-MKE on FL gets transferred to MDW and operated by WN.

User currently offlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 16114 times:

That may explain NK dropping DCA-FLL. They're moving to BWI, it looks like.

User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1360 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15951 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
According to the DOT filling, SWA intends to utilize the slots to commence DCA-STL service - currently a monopoly market, with only regional jet service.

This will give STL service on WN to BOS, EWR, LGA, PHL, BWI and DCA and have the entire eastern market covered. Very impressive WN..


User currently onlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4878 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15679 times:

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 5):


This will give STL service on WN to BOS, EWR, LGA, PHL, BWI and DCA and have the entire eastern market covered. Very impressive WN..

Good news for us in STL, how long before AA drops STL-DCA? One of the few non-cornerstone p2p's left.



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15454 times:

Definitely good news for STL. It appears WN would gain control of the slots 06 SEPT 12. WN is currently seeking approval to "slide" the slots, which are all for late evening, to commercially viable times. NK had previously received a slide for these slots, but the slide is not transferable. A brief summary of the current status can be found here: OST-2012-0109 - Exemption - DCA Slot Slides

User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2923 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 15400 times:

STL also provides government travelers across the Mississippi River at Scott AFB in Illinois larger jet service to the nations capital. Scott of course is home to Headquarters U.S. Transportation Command and Air Mobility Command. These are the offices which coordinated most of the military charters and gray metal logistics around the globe. I liken these commands to FedEx on steroids.


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinethreeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 649 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 15355 times:

I would have guessed that US would fly DCA-STL but it doesn't. Does anyone have an estimate of the daily STL-WAS traffic? 2x daily on WN is a huge increase in available seats from the current service level on AE.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24316 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 15327 times:

Looks like SWA is indeed quite serious about growing DCA. Wonder how much $$$ they parted with to NK.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1360 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 15228 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 6):
Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 5):

This will give STL service on WN to BOS, EWR, LGA, PHL, BWI and DCA and have the entire eastern market covered. Very impressive WN..
Good news for us in STL, how long before AA drops STL-DCA? One of the few non-cornerstone p2p's left.

Probably in the works as we speak. One more nail in the AA coffin otherwise known as STL..  


User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 15194 times:

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 9):
I would have guessed that US would fly DCA-STL but it doesn't. Does anyone have an estimate of the daily STL-WAS traffic? 2x daily on WN is a huge increase in available seats from the current service level on AE.

I don't have the numbers off-hand, but this was a mainline AA route prior to DL entering with 4x CR7 (including after the closure of the STL hub). DL's entrance prompted AA to reduce to 3x CR7 (which DL matched), and AA has simply maintained that schedule since DL closed the route as they parted with DCA slots. So while adding 2x 737 is a huge increase compared to the current offering, it hasn't been that long since a lot more seats were in the market. Ultimately, there's a good chance we'll see AA quietly cut the route and leave a strong performer for WN.


User currently offlinenomadic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 15037 times:

Is there any information regarding the greatest number of DCA flights TWA operated at any one time prior to the AA takeover?
IIRC this was a major market for TWA yet AA seems a few AE flights can take care of business (like so many former TWA STL markets)


User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14861 times:

Quoting nomadic (Reply 13):
Is there any information regarding the greatest number of DCA flights TWA operated at any one time prior to the AA takeover?

TW's service to DCA peaked at 13x daily, in the mid-1990s (9xSTL & 4xJFK; later, 7xSTL, 4xJFK & 2xMCI).

In the late '90s, TW was operating 8xSTL & 2xJFK.

By 2000, service to JFK was dropped and STL reduced to 7x.

In 2001, service to STL continued at 7x, and a daily flight to LAX was awarded.

Quote:
IIRC this was a major market for TWA yet AA seems a few AE flights can take care of business (like so many former TWA STL markets)

STL was one of the largest transfer hubs in the USA, with roughly 600 mainline flights at its peak.



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14807 times:

Quoting nomadic (Reply 13):
IIRC this was a major market for TWA yet AA seems a few AE flights can take care of business (like so many former TWA STL markets)

There's really no point comparing what TWA did in STL 10+ years ago to what AA does there now. Aside from the 3x CR7 service to DCA, there is little to distinguish STL from any other spoke in terms of AA service.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14806 times:

Quoting nomadic (Reply 13):
IIRC this was a major market for TWA yet AA seems a few AE flights can take care of business (like so many former TWA STL markets)

As Comp. pointed out, STL was huge for TWA; then inherited by AA. AA slowly cut everything down to the point where it's no more than a spoke city.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2401 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14754 times:

Quoting avi8 (Reply 1):
It's also a matter of time before DCA-MKE on FL gets transferred to MDW and operated by WN.

Well, people have been saying this ever since the merger was first announced (almost two years ago now) and it still hasn't happened. It wouldn't surprise me if they eventually move one or two of the flights, but I expect at least two MKE-DCA flights will remain.



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineusxguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 984 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 14344 times:

I believe that USAirways flew DCA-STL 3 or 4 times a day using a mix of ERJ 145 and EMB 170 aircraft.... but for the life of me I can't seem to recall an end date.


xx
User currently offlineLambertman From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2064 posts, RR: 36
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12784 times:

Quoting usxguy (Reply 18):
I believe that USAirways flew DCA-STL 3 or 4 times a day using a mix of ERJ 145 and EMB 170 aircraft.... but for the life of me I can't seem to recall an end date.

I'm from St. Louis and now live next to Reagan and I can assure you this hasn't happened in at least the past five years and never, to my knowledge.

Responding to an earlier poster, at one point in time DCA-STL had 800 seats a day in the market between DL and AA. DL was competing against AA's mainline product and over-pricing the market -- commonly offering r/t fares north of $600 over a month out. I was never quite sure of DL's strategy other than to pump up an S-Curve market, but either way it left the market worse off with Delta leaving and AA going to RJ's. I was actually anticipating AA placing S80's back on the route at some point, but I suppose this will squash that possibility. Given the remaining frequent flier base in St. Louis, I think AA can survive and even do well with something like 510 seats a day in the market.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4482 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11680 times:

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 3):

I'm curious when we'll find out if WN will be awarded the slots for DCA-OKC. It's also a matter of time before DCA-MKE on FL gets transferred to MDW and operated by WN.

The Air 21 slot award has seemed to be taking forever to finalize. Probably a lot of backroom politicking going on. The sad thing is, giving the slots to WN for OKC-DCA would be better than leaving with US. If JAN-DCA was truly viable, there is nothing stopping US from moving a couple of their existing slots over to cover from a route with excess capacity on it.

As far as MKE-DCA, like others have said I think some will remain. They are making a huge push to grab ex-F9 flyers as much as possible right now and it wouldn't be very wise to cut the business routes those pax want. Yes, reduce frequency and give them to MDW where they can be better used but keep something at MKE.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineusafret From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11544 times:

I too hope AA will return the DCA flights to mainline, but the CR7 isn't bad. I believe they dropped the STL-JFK direct as well on AE. Very sad. I'm looking to relocate someplace else with better air service on AA, but not Chicago or Dallas, so will keep thinking about where to go. I'm Ex Plat so in for a dime in for a dollar. Delta looks tempting at this point.

User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11445 times:

Southwest in DCA?? Wow - I am so behind on airline news. Forgive me but I thought Southwest will never fly to DCA... Did previous Southwest management indicate new DCA destination not possible at all? Anyway, improved DCA-STL service sounds good!


Airliners.net of the Future
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3963 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11269 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 20):
If JAN-DCA was truly viable, there is nothing stopping US from moving a couple of their existing slots over to cover from a route with excess capacity on it.

It can be viable without demanding a slot be given up for it. I don't think DCA really has many routes with "excess capacity" on them. In the end this will be a political decision, a state capital versus a larger market.


User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2817 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11170 times:

I gotta say, when I saw this thread I thought "this is how they keep DCA-MKE and start DCA-MDW too". But when I saw it was two slot pairs for St Louis service, it makes me even more convinced that some or all DCA-MKE slots will go to Midway. They could just have easily used these two new slot pairs to get MDW service, a market with no nonstop airines at all. They obvious reason they woudn't pledge these two slots to MDW is that they have other plans for DCA-MDW.

It may be that they trim both DCA-ATL and DCA-MKE to start 3-5 Midway flights, so it's not necessarily certain that all four DCA-MKE moves wholesale down to DCA-MDW. But it seems even more likely to me that something else for MDW is up..


25 F9animal : What? I don't want to go off topic, but.... 600 mainline flights a day? Or a week? What was TWAs biggest daily departures from STL? Also, why would N
26 Post contains links skycub : TWA appears to have peaked at Saint Louis in the fourth quarter of 1997 with 537 daily flights, of which 367 were mainline flights (this was also the
27 ouboy79 : Umm...they are both state capitals? So that really means nothing in this. It will come down to which political lobby does a better job though. Howeve
28 HPRamper : I mean that JAN is basically a capital and not much else. Small market, nothing close to the passenger base that OKC would have. As far as I'm concer
29 bobloblaw : STL-DCA was TWA highest margin route in the 1990s along with LGA. TW got a 20% higher yield on the route than AA got on ORD-DCA despite being 100 mile
30 kgaiflyer : It wasn't just that. The most interesting people bought walk-up tickets and wound up sitting in the back -- sometimes squeezed into a middle seat. Yo
31 Post contains images dadoftyler : Bobloblaw--in DC I think those "salesmen" are called "lobbyists."
32 gizmonc : Does anyone have any idea on how much WN paid NK for those slots. It sure was a short auction NK made their desire to put those 4 slots up for bid on
33 Cubsrule : Interestingly, I've found in many of the places I lived in the east coast, it was much more common to find this sort of "interesting" last minute wal
34 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Yes -- no doubt.
35 kgaiflyer : But, of course. There is no UA DCA-BDL service.
36 Cubsrule : But US flies it several times a day. There's no UA DCA-STL service, either.
37 F9animal : Wow! That was double what I thought TWA had!
38 LHCVG : Is there excess LCC demand from BWI? It seems like WN and FL, now WN, has a nice little (big) hub up there, but I wonder how NK is going to fare if t
39 threeifbyair : DCA is a premium airport - NK is a hard-discounting carrier. Also, I don't know if NK was capturing much (if any) of the Federal Government GSA air t
40 Post contains images OB1504 : The DCA service dates back to the pre-ULCC days. If they can make some money off of the slot sale and continue to serve the same area via a different
41 Post contains images flyiguy : I do, and lets just say it was a whole lot less than what Jet blue paid per slot for theirs at the DL/US auction FLY
42 jfklganyc : "I'm looking to relocate someplace else with better air service on AA, but not Chicago or Dallas, so will keep thinking about where to go. I'm Ex Plat
43 beechtobus : So is Spirit completely pulling out of DCA? I wonder because they currently have 6 slots, yet there is only mention of them selling 4 slots and I have
44 OB1504 : When trying to book a flight to/from DCA after September 5th, the website advises that all services to the Baltimore/Washington area will be moved to
45 FlyPNS1 : I believe the last pair of slots are special Air21 slots that cannot be sold. They are airline and city pair specific. If NK leaves DCA, the last pai
46 sdoyon : If this does happen, I think both WN and US will be very happy...
47 FlyPNS1 : Probably make WN more happy. Most of the Air21 slots were targeted at limited incumbent carriers which US most certainly is not. If the slot does get
48 steex : Unless the reason they haven't announced a selection between US/JAN and WN/OKC is that DOT plans to allow both routes by utilizing the additional Air
49 Post contains links ouboy79 : Interesting thought. Hopefully that is what is going on. http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2000-7182-1909 Docket filed by NK stati
50 LAXintl : Spirit letter to the DOT merely informs the department that the carrier is terminating service at DCA and returns a pair of slots exemptions effective
51 ouboy79 : Which is pretty much what I said. >.> LOL It does open up another pair of AIR 21 slots that DOT can play with.
52 sdoyon : Making sure I have everything in order: NK had 3 slots at DCA: 2x FLL and 1x MYR. All service is ending 9/5/12. Two slots were just sold to WN At leas
53 FlyPNS1 : NK has a total of 3 slots...currently flying DCA-FLL 3x daily. Plus, they offer DCA-MYR as Saturday only. However, flights on Saturdays play by a dif
54 LoneStarMike : Isn't F9 also a contender? IIRC they had applied for SDF-DCA. LoneStarMike
55 sdoyon : Thanks for clearing that up! They did, however, F9 has been shuffling the deck chairs in DCA for a while, and I wouldn't be surprised if the DOT unof
56 steex : Technically, yes, but I doubt they have much of a shot given that OKC/JAN don't have service to DCA (well, JAN currently does on an interim basis unt
57 ouboy79 : Unless other carriers come out of the wood work, it would appear that that both WN and US will get what they want. Just that one will have to wait a
58 FlyPNS1 : What if WN wanted to try and get both DCA slots? WN could make the case that TUL-DCA is a better market than JAN-DCA.
59 ouboy79 : They very well could, or any other number of markets WN already serves. I don't see them pursuing TUL-DCA specifically since they haven't really push
60 HPRamper : So then, if WN wins the first one, the question becomes, will US really rebid for DCA-JAN, or will they now look for another, maybe more lucrative ma
61 LAXintl : You guys have it right - Spirit holds two types of DCA slots; Air-21 and regular within-perimeter ones. It sold to SWA the 4 within-perimeter ones eff
62 LAXintl : Southwest applied with the DOT for a waiver in slot usage to allow a September 30 start-up instead of the prior September 6th date. SWA states that th
63 slcdeltarumd11 : Not long sadly. Im sure southwest motives are to chase AA off the route and once again make it a monopoly. At least southwests last minute fares as a
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