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Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26175 posts, RR: 50
Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6440 times:

Travel + Leisure Magazine is out with its "World's Best Awards".

While covering many categories, for the airline segment its global readers voted the following:

Top US Domestic Airlines
1. Virgin America
2. JetBlue
3. Hawaiian Air
4. Southwest
5. Frontier

Top International Airlines
1. Singapore
2. Air New Zealand
3. Emirates
4. Korean Air
5. Cathay Pacific


Full results, and details about all the categories:
http://www.travelandleisure.com/worldsbest

=

[Edited 2012-07-06 09:48:06]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecat3dual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
1. Virgin America

Apparently they didn't consider financial performance (or lack thereof) in their selection criteria.

[Edited 2012-07-06 10:12:42]

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26175 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6209 times:

Its a consumer survey - meant to highlight companies and products that represent the very best in travel.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineloalq From Switzerland, joined Jan 2007, 230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

SQ is not a surprise in any list, not sure about Korean though...

SQ has undoubtedly the best Economy product out there. And a very strong Business class.



"...this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped."
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5938 times:

None of the top domestic carriers have much international service and none of the top international carriers have much domestic service.


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1118 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5804 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 4):
None of the top domestic carriers have much international service and none of the top international carriers have much domestic service.

Dosen't that apply to most airlines on this planet, good or bad?



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlinezkeoj From New Zealand, joined Feb 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5197 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 4):
none of the top international carriers have much domestic service.
NZ and KE have quite sizeable domestic services...

From personal experience on both carriers, I think that NZ is just as good as SQ. In fact, I prefer NZ these days. As always, it is a matter of personmal taste  Smile

Cheers
micha

[Edited 2012-07-07 05:14:28]

User currently offlineSandager From Denmark, joined May 2007, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4928 times:

Quoting loalq (Reply 3):
SQ has undoubtedly the best Economy product out there.

Things might have changed but every single time I have flown on SQ, only in Y, I have left the aircraft completely and utterly unimpressed. Uninspiring crew and food and entertainment like any other airline.


User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2399 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4284 times:
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Quoting loalq (Reply 3):
SQ is not a surprise in any list, not sure about Korean though...

KE is certainly not a surprise when I read their TR on this forum and others.

For me it definitely shows that SkyTrax is an outdated and over-rated website (Haha Hainan 5 stars !!).



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offline9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3974 times:

Quoting Sandager (Reply 7):
Things might have changed but every single time I have flown on SQ, only in Y, I have left the aircraft completely and utterly unimpressed. Uninspiring crew and food and entertainment like any other airline.

I don't agree that SQ is the number 1 spot. Top airline but certainly not number 1. Sorry to say this but SQ is one overrated airline, and this comes from someone living in SG.

Charles



Airliners is the wings of my life.
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3846 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 4):
None of the top domestic carriers have much international service

Currently, but they are expanding. 4 out of the 5 airlines in the top US Domestic Carriers categories don't even own a widebody aircraft (yet), and two of those are fairly young but are "spreading their wings" outside the US. My airline has only been around for 12 years but currently has service to the following places that are outside of the US and its territories (I may be missing a few):

BDA
NAS
CUN
POP
PUJ
STI
SDQ
LRM
SXM
UVF
BGI
AUA
BOG
SJO
LIR
CTG

With WN taking over FL, they too will be adding international destinations.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3586 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 10):

You're right, that IS a lot of (short-distance) intl flights!   What's next, BLI-YVR? Watch out, Delta!

Quoting zkeoj (Reply 6):

'Sizeable' implies LARGE. Neither NZ or KE have a LARGE domestic system.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1118 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 9):
Sorry to say this but SQ is one overrated airline, and this comes from someone living in SG.

I do not consider CX outstanding either, and QF was downright horrid. So just what exactly is an outstanding airline for Y?

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 11):
'Sizeable' implies LARGE. Neither NZ or KE have a LARGE domestic system.

As I wrote, name me one airline with a large domestic and international network. I find it hard to name even one major airline with a 50-50 split between international and domestic ops.



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 12):
name me one airline with a large domestic and international network.

Delta, United, and American. Ooops, that's three. But none of them made it to the top of a list. So, if you have both a large domestic system and a large international system, you'll never make it to the top.

PS....where did you 'write' that?

[Edited 2012-07-08 08:58:47]

[Edited 2012-07-08 09:02:40]


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3307 times:

Quoting zkeoj (Reply 6):
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 4):none of the top international carriers have much domestic service.
NZ and KE have quite sizeable domestic services...

The world's single busiest air route is a domestic route in Korea, Seoul Gimpo-Jeju (GMP-CJU), with something like 90 flights a day in each direction. Of the 6 carriers on that route, KE accounts for about 20 daily flights each way. KE has a few other domestic routes with up to 15 daily flights.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Its a consumer survey - meant to highlight companies and products that represent the very best in travel.

Those types of surveys are best ignored. And many of the magazine's readers probably haven't even flown on the carriers they're supposedly rating. For example, it amazes me that anyone would rate EK among the best carriers considering their 10-abreast Y class product on their huge 777 fleet.


User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1118 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3269 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 13):
Delta, United, and American. Ooops, that's three. But none of them made it to the top of a list. So, if you have both a large domestic system and a large international system, you'll never make it to the top.

Those three have "large" international networks compared to their domestic ops? Really? Cite me the figures, please?

Even by absolute numbers, their "international networks" fall behind several Asian and European airlines. Sorry, but they don't make the cut either. Just look at how pathetic American is in Asia for instance! Delta only has a presence here thanks to swallowing up NW, and US got it thanks to Pan Am.



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

Embarrassing for the major US airlines which try to make so much of their “superior” product and services.
Clearly consumers are not deceived or impressed.

But good for Virgin, JetBlue, Hawaiian, Southwest and Frontier running circles around the big boys


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17829 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3241 times:

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 16):
Embarrassing for the major US airlines which try to make so much of their “superior” product and services.

The EU carriers are slowly joining the US carriers and Asia is only a few years behind them.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 15):
Those three have "large" international networks compared to their domestic ops? Really? Cite me the figures, please?

AA's international capacity alone is roughly the same size as SQ's total capacity, and their domestic capacity is even larger.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26175 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3209 times:

Yes I think its interesting that smaller US niche carriers such as Virgin, JetBlue, Hawaiian which serve so many fewer passengers than the majors manage to leave such a positive impression that they tend to come in tops in survey after survey.
Or I suppose it might be the other way around also, that the majors leave such mediocre impression in consumer minds, when these little boys come around and provide a free smile and hello the customer are won over.


For the international guys, I think all 5 are quite solid carriers, with great overall products and networks. I don't view a single item such as the lack of a significant domestic network, or 10-abreast seating in Y class as being negatives when viewed in the larger context.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13767 posts, RR: 61
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3181 times:
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Quoting cat3dual (Reply 1):
Apparently they didn't consider financial performance (or lack thereof) in their selection criteria.

At all:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Top US Domestic Airlines
1. HUGELY unprofitable
2. Profitable
3. Unprofitable
4. (of late) Unprofitable, save for fuel hedging
5. Unprofitable

One of my company's VPs was discussing the fact that, had VX been able to compete in the JD Power survey (they don't qualify since they don't serve enough destinations), they'd have blown our doors off. "How would we compete with them for that award annually?" he asked?

"If all things remain equal, why would we care if we lost to them?" was my reply. He seemed shocked.

Yes, customers may perceive that they have a better product, but we make money and they don't, and they'll have a hell of a hard time getting Airbus to accept JD Power Awards as payment for aircraft. Or employees to use JD Power Awards to pay their mortgages. Or car payments. Or groceries.

So at the end of the day would you REALLY rather be the sexiest airline parked at Marana, Goodyear, and Imperial? I wouldn't.

[Edited 2012-07-08 10:41:34]


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26175 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3140 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 19):
"If all things remain equal, why would we care if we lost to them?" was my reply. He seemed shocked.

You care as these awardx are free positive advertising. Often especially the bigger ones like JD, there will be stories in tons of publications, and the award is something the company can utilize in its own advertising for the year.

So even if the free advertising only drives one more passenger to the winner, its potentially one less passenger the non-winner would carry.

I bet many did not care about Apple back in the day, with their geeky products, but now look at how they have become a huge force the industry deals with. IMO this is exactly what happened with Southwest and allowed them to grow and become the huge competitor they are. So yes imo it would be naïve not to worry about VX, or any other one of these carriers. Burying your head in the sand will not make them go away.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13767 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3108 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 19):
"If all things remain equal, why would we care if we lost to them?" was my reply. He seemed shocked.

You care as these awardx are free positive advertising. Often especially the bigger ones like JD, there will be stories in tons of publications, and the award is something the company can utilize in its own advertising for the year.

So even if the free advertising only drives one more passenger to the winner, its potentially one less passenger the non-winner would carry.

I understand that, and while I agree that there are certainly areas where my carrier can and should beef up both the hard and soft product to compete more aggressively, it can and should. But on a bigger scale what makes more sense - winning that one competitive battle, or winning the competitive war as a whole? I'd say winning the war is the more crucial piece overall, wouldn't you?

So again, if spending tons of money to have seatback IFE, in-seat power, flashy in-seat ordering systems and a "hip" buzz about you ultimately equals JD Power Awards, then so be it...but not at at the expense of a -18.35% ROIC! That's suicide.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7111 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 11):
'Sizeable' implies LARGE. Neither NZ or KE have a LARGE domestic system.

It's all relative though isn't it. Of course NZ's domestic network is no where near the size of US carriers, but then what do you expect for a country of 4-5 million people. I will say though that NZ's domestic flights far outweight the number of international services so primarily by number of flights and aircraft, NZ is a primarily domestic carrier just like many other US airlines.

33 Aircraft for Short Haul & Long Haul International vs 69 for domestic, its not hard to see that they are not really a big international airline


User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 727 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2769 times:
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Quoting loalq (Reply 3):
SQ is not a surprise in any list, not sure about Korean though...

A professor of transport I met once told me that the issue that held Korean back from many airline awards was the fact they served kimchi in their meal service! And this is a guy who is regularly consulted by various air transport bodies.



Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1118 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2732 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
AA's international capacity alone is roughly the same size as SQ's total capacity, and their domestic capacity is even larger.

Yes I certainly do not question the overall sizes of the thee Amrican legacies. What I am pointing out is in reference to the original assertion about sizes of domestic versus international ops. You actually are agreeing that their domestic ops is much larger than ther international ops. None of the three legacies mentioned have a balanced 50-50 split, do they?

So again, it is not unusual when

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 4):
None of the top domestic carriers have much international service and none of the top international carriers have much domestic service.

since that is true for most airlines anyway, good or bad. I just hope no one therefore tries to use this as an "excuse" for bad service!



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
25 LAXintl : Sure the war matters ultimately, but each battle matters also as it can either weaken or strengthen you. Not paying attention to too many battles can
26 EA CO AS : Again, I agree, but right now VX is the equivalent of the guy with the kick-ass sound system and killer neon package on the '72 Torino up on blocks w
27 Post contains images VXCabinCrew : This site gets so silly sometimes! Let's just congratulate all the winners and move on lol Whether VX is going to go out of business or not, or NZ has
28 EA CO AS : Fair enough. VX does have an impressive product, and it's clear that consumers love them. It's also fair to point out that in their current state, it
29 skycub : Well, I would gladly trade being NUMBER ONE in this survey for actually making a profit. A lot of good being # 1 in this survey does when you can't m
30 VXCabinCrew : Trust me, people are willing to pay for our product. We command fares equal to the larger carriers in **most** of our markets (not the newer markets)
31 Post contains images Ps76 : Hi! I wouldn't take this report too seriously. So one magazine asks it's readers (probably very few of actually who reply) what airlines they thought
32 Post contains images LAXintl : And they picked up 3 more awards today at Skytrax 2012 event. Best Domestic Airline North America Best Low Cost Airline North America Best Staff Serv
33 peanuts : Any type on readership ranking is simply highly subjective. Stroke your ego if you want or lick your wounds. It is what it is. Highly subjective. As a
34 Post contains links and images B6JFKH81 : Free **unlimited** snacks which include: PopCorners Popcorn Chips Terra Blues Potato Chips Terra Blues Potato Chips Summer BBQ Flavor Linden's Chocol
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