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Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route  
User currently offlineLH600 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 164 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7380 times:

The article says its from June 14 to August 31 because 'Iranian authorities have announced they will not provide fuel to Austrian and other European airlines during that timeframe.'

Weren't the European airlines already making fuel stops? Any news about other airlines? LH, KL, BA...



http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/new...-temporarily-suspends-tehran-route

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7341 times:

So they are targeting the European airlines during the busiest period - smart move. I wonder what impact this might have on the Middle Eastern carriers and if their loads will improve to/from Iran.

User currently offlinebwaflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 689 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7147 times:

Quoting LH600 (Thread starter):
Weren't the European airlines already making fuel stops? Any news about other airlines? LH, KL, BA...

bmi have been stopping in Yerevan each way on the daily service


User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1113 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6414 times:

Maybe OS is sending the traffic over MUC or FRA?

The 737s are going, and maybe there's a fleet shortage?


User currently offlinelh600 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 164 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6269 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 4):

But the article says its due to the Iranian authorities denying them fuel.


User currently offlinechieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6233 times:
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LH and KLM are using long haul aircraft on its IKA flights and thus do necessarily require a fuel stop.


Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
User currently offlinelh600 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 164 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6103 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 1):


  


User currently offlinechieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5888 times:
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Quoting chieft (Reply 5):
LH and KLM are using long haul aircraft on its IKA flights and thus do necessarily require a fuel stop.

Mishap, sorry. I meant: do not necessarily require a fuel stop.



Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5755 times:

Doesn't KLM stop in Athens for refueling? I think there was a thread some time ago.

User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8060 posts, RR: 54
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5739 times:

Quoting chieft (Reply 5):
LH and KLM are using long haul aircraft on its IKA flights and thus do necessarily require a fuel stop.

If my previous post on the subject hadn't been deleted (I accidentally referred to the reason for the fuel stops, oops), you would have been able to read that KLM fly the MD-11 and / or A330-200 to IKA, both of which are indeed long-haul aircraft, and used to stop for fuel in Athens. However they now operate nonstop, which is only possible if they can buy fuel in IKA. And the only way that would be possible is if Iran Air can buy fuel in AMS. What would be nice to learn is how sensible people have prevailed at AMS, and perhaps something similar can happen everywhere else. These fuel stops achieve nothing because no-one (except, perhaps, OS) has dropped IKA as a destination, and Iran Air still serve the ports across Europe they served before the fuel embargo. All that is achieved is a big waste of fuel, time, and a lot of harmful emissions that contribute no benefit.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinechieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5531 times:
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LH600 and LH 601 are operated with B744 and A346. Both legs non-stop.

[Edited 2012-07-08 11:18:06]


Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
User currently offlinelh600 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 164 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5343 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 9):

Can anyone confirm that KL is buying fuel in IKA?


User currently offlinea300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5202 times:
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FRA-LAX is 9343 km, which gets LH A340-600 and B747-400 non-stop.

FRA-IKA is 3784 km by great circle route. The total round trip distant would be less than 8000 km. I suspect that with a full fuel load out of FRA, a refueling in Tehran could be avoided.



Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4907 times:
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Quoting a300 (Reply 12):
FRA-LAX is 9343 km, which gets LH A340-600 and B747-400 non-stop.

FRA-IKA is 3784 km by great circle route. The total round trip distant would be less than 8000 km. I suspect that with a full fuel load out of FRA, a refueling in Tehran could be avoided.

Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?

Who mainly flies Iran Air? Is it mainly Iranian citizens sticking to their homeland airline?


User currently offlinechieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4835 times:
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Quoting laca773 (Reply 13):
Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?

Who mainly flies Iran Air? Is it mainly Iranian citizens sticking to their homeland airline?

The main reason using the large planes is the refueling issue. But there is also a huge demand.



Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4714 times:
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Perhaps max landing weight is a consideration when landing at IKA with enough fuel for the return trip in the tanks. Bigger aircraft probably have more flexibility with this as they have huge tanks and high MLW number...?

An OS A320 or B737 probably takes a big payload restriction if tanks are full + they must be within max landing weight at IKA.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4652 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 13):
Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?

Don't forget that Lufthansa has a massive network which can probably guarantee such aircraft. Also I am sure they get a share of the Iran>US market.


User currently offlinebwaflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 689 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4571 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 13):
Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?

Even little old bmi manage to fill a daily 149 seat A321 to the rafters.


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4562 times:
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Quoting ju068 (Reply 16):

Don't forget that Lufthansa has a massive network which can probably guarantee such aircraft. Also I am sure they get a share of the Iran>US market.

This makes sense. Thanks for mentioning that. Being from Santa Monica, I'd be very interested to know what airline people fly on for the most part going to IKA. Since TK and EK started service to LAX, I'd be surprised to not see a good portion of those using IST and DXB to transfer into IKA.

Quoting bwaflyer (Reply 17):

Even little old bmi manage to fill a daily 149 seat A321 to the rafters.

Very true.

Quoting chieft (Reply 14):

The main reason using the large planes is the refueling issue. But there is also a huge demand.

That does make sense, especially if Iran won't allow Western airlines refuel there.


User currently offlinelh600 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 164 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4469 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 13):
Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?

Who mainly flies Iran Air? Is it mainly Iranian citizens sticking to their homeland airline?

I regularly fly LH600/601 connecting SFO-FRA-IKA and flights are usually full. IR is also very popular among expats in the US and EU.


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4282 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 1):
So they are targeting the European airlines during the busiest period - smart move. I wonder what impact this might have on the Middle Eastern carriers and if their loads will improve to/from Iran.

It'd be yet another sanction "the west" has put up which turns out to hurt nobody but its own industry.

Quoting chieft (Reply 7):
Mishap, sorry. I meant: do not necessarily require a fuel stop.

If Iran is going to deny fuel, and time-wise it's not smart to make a stop in, say ATH, it's all about the MLAM restriction and the consideration, whether carrying the fuel for the home-trip already on the outbound is a smart move financially.



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlinechieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4117 times:
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Quoting Semaex (Reply 20):
If Iran is going to deny fuel, and time-wise it's not smart to make a stop in, say ATH, it's all about the MLAM restriction and the consideration, whether carrying the fuel for the home-trip already on the outbound is a smart move financially.

Well, the basic question is, if you have the choice.
If you cannot get fuel on your destination and if you want to avoid further costs related to additional landings, then it is definitely cheaper, if you have the right aircraft, to take the inbound fuel on the outbound flight already. The fuel on your forced fuel stop must be very cheap to satisfy an additonal landing. Don't speak about the inconvenience for your pax.



Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
User currently offlinelh600 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 164 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4017 times:

Tyrolean Airways to operate flights for Austrian Airlines starting Sept 1st.

VIE-IKA VO871
IKA-VIE VO872

VIE/Tyrolean-Airways-VO/" target="_blank">http://www.jetradar.com/flights/Tehr...to-Vienna-VIE/Tyrolean-Airways-VO/


User currently offlineTupolev160 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3922 times:

With what metal they plan to operate the route?

User currently offlinelh600 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 164 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3874 times:

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 23):

I'm guessing B763?


25 Tupolev160 : I didn't know VO operates widebodies as well. I thought only Austrian did in the group.
26 ju068 : Due to higher costs Austrian has been moving its operations onto its Tyrolean brand. Most, if not all, flights are operated by Tyrolean now.
27 LOWS : All OS flights are now operated by Tyrolean, but still carry the OS code.
28 bennett123 : Will IKA be a casualty of the BA takeover of BD?.
29 IR800 : Yes, KLM does buy fuel from Iran Air (not directly from the fuel provider company) at IKA, and so does Iran Air at AMS. The same applies to Alitalia
30 ju068 : But I thought Alitalia used to have a technical stop in Ankara. Has something changed?
31 cedarjet : Re demand on this route, Lufty used 747s (and A340s) to Tehran before the fuel nonsense, so yes, they need the capacity. Most of the traffic connects
32 IR800 : Yes, they used to. But now they can buy fuel at IKA. Even sometimes Iran Air has its fuel stop at FCO or MXP for ORY-IKA flights.
33 chieft : Many thanks for that information!
34 jumpjets : I doubt it - BA operated the routes in its own right many years ago - then they farmed it out to BMED who operated it as a franchisee in BA colours -
35 ju068 : Thank you for the information. It is really great to see them being able to refuel in Rome! I hope more airports follow...
36 cedarjet : No way, that A321 is full every night, and fares are very high for a (only) 4h30m flight. Yield yield yield. Btw when BA used to fly to THR, the meta
37 IR800 : I hope so too! Note that Iran Air has suspended FCO, and only use this airport as a refueling option. Most of BMI passengers are transit travellers t
38 LH600 : What's stopping Cathay?
39 ju068 : This: Isn't there enough market for Iran Air to launch FCO flights? If they are routing some of their flights via Rome, why not make some money on th
40 LH600 : IR used to operate THR/IKA- FCO for a long time. Not sure why it was cancelled.
41 bwaflyer : Even if it could, it would need to stop to swap crew, since the suspension of diplomatic relations, crew are not permitted to stay in Tehran. non-sto
42 flySFO : I flew SFO-LHR-THR-LHR-SFO on BA back in 1997. I recall the second leg being operated LHR-LCA-THR-LHR triangle, can anyone confirm this? I specifical
43 chieft : Austrian will resume Tehran service from 22.08.12, 11 days earlier than planned. The airline will operate 3 weekly flights, and increases to 5 weekly
44 ju068 : I guess they will get the fuel in Tehran? Does this apply to all European airlines or..?
45 IR800 : Currently Iran Air receives fuel at VIE. So Austrian can get fuel at IKA too.
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